To all of you who think EXP Boosting Potions are Pay to Win: You're wrong.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

I don't like P2W, but if ZoS must do it, I want boosts that are actually WORTH paying for with cold, hard cash!

I would never pay any amount of money for a dinky 50% boost for 2 hours. I would pay for a 50% boost for a whole month, though, for a reasonable amount like $10. I would also pay for a 5000% boost for 2 hours, but people would freak out if they offered, that, LOL.

I understand why people don't like P2W, but they should remember the context of the Champion Point system. Only having ONE Enlightenment point per day for a system that takes 3600 points to max, isn't just frustrating, it's SICK. Surely ZoS knows that many players are not going to be happy until they hit 3600, and that means sacrificing 10 years of your LIFE at current typical rates of XP gain. Given this fact, I think it's MORE ethical to offer P2W XP gain than to not offer it!

DDuke · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't like P2W, but if ZoS must do it, I want boosts that are actually WORTH paying for with cold, hard cash!

I would never pay any amount of money for a dinky 50% boost for 2 hours. I would pay for a 50% boost for a whole month, though, for a reasonable amount like $10. I would also pay for a 5000% boost for 2 hours, but people would freak out if they offered, that, LOL.

I understand why people don't like P2W, but they should remember the context of the Champion Point system. Only having ONE Enlightenment point per day for a system that takes 3600 points to max, isn't just frustrating, it's SICK. Surely ZoS knows that many players are not going to be happy until they hit 3600, and that means sacrificing 10 years of your LIFE at current typical rates of XP gain. Given this fact, I think it's MORE ethical to offer P2W XP gain than to not offer it!

LOL

You don't think the reason we got this hamster wheel (Champion System), is that they want to sell XP potions to people?

You are absolutely correct in that the grind2win system is not good either, but it is a byproduct of this greed you are ready to support.

For a better game, both need to stay out of the game.

No to insane grinds and no to P2W XP Boosters, which go hand in hand.

Yes to challenging content, yes to PvP BGs & other things to that could keep us in the game.

One thing they could do is having a set amount of points you can allocate (easily reached number, e.g. 100), and then making Champion System a horizontal progress.

You'd unlock new passives after grinding X points, but you couldn't stack them with everything else. This'd create more unique options, instead of simply more power, and would hardly be P2W. A kind of a talent tree if you will.

seaef · March 2015

Soulshine wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Being unemployed to win is much more unfair than a 50% XP potion. I should file a complaint to ZOS that they are not blocking unemployed from the game.

LOL!

Can you imagine? New MMO in 2016 ToS:

*Must be over 21yrs (we require legal US drinking age for all due to mature content)
*Must be gainfully employed a minimum of 8hrs a day 5 days a week (proof of W2 and 1040 will be required)
*My not reside in a basement, on cousin's couch, or any other dwelling not one's own (proof of lease, mortgage must be rendered)
*May not play the game more than 2 hrs a day/355 days a year* (Special permission for the other 10 days a year will be issued on a first come first server basis at holiday and vacation times. Perma bans from the server and the forums will be issued for excessive play beyond this limit).

What did I forget?

What did you forget? You just more or less described gaming in China.

dietlime · March 2015

Players who use boosters that strong will inevitably have a lead that others can't close without spending real money, one that translates into guaranteed wins in PvP

Blo0dstorm · March 2015

Cody wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Eh I'd rather get the CP grind over with Tbh

We need 5000 CPs, right? It was just increased in 2.x patch notes..

it will never end, bro

well you are not supposed to grind all of them out, you are supposed to earn them as you play.

How are you supposed to earn them when you have already completed all the quests, anchors, delves (cyrodiil included)
and only got left
- Craglorn quests and dungeons
- Trials
As I'm not in the mood of crying for group in chat, I find myself grinding my way through VR10 area and Spellscar.
I pvp a few hours a week, not enough to get a substantial amount of XP.

Ysne58 · March 2015

Whov wrote: »

I think these pots aren't going to matter for the CP. The 10% sub has been stated as it caps at 50. So after that ur on your own again. This tells me that if the pots affect CP acquisition then there is absoloutly no point in subbing after 1 character hits vr ranks. I'll Hsu cancel and use pots from that point on.

@whov would you please provide a link to support that statement about the 10% exp bonus capping at 50. I do not recall seeing that anywhere.

Kalfis · March 2015

dietlime wrote: »

Players who use boosters that strong will inevitably have a lead that others can't close without spending real money, one that translates into guaranteed wins in PvP

Lag is going to kill you waaaaaaaaaay before a player with slightly superior stats will.

AssaultLemming · March 2015

Exp boosters are pay to win. The Op is wrong.

eisberg · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

Logic fail.

If you pay extra money to increase the rate at which you acquire experience points to gain champion points faster: you are paying to win.

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Only thing you have proven is your ignorance.

Rings of Mara are negligible, you need to sacrifice a ring slot for them, which means they are not usable in PvP or end game PvE, and might reduce your DPS enough to defeat the purpose of the XP boost.

ESO Plus is P2W, make no mistake. It is, however, much less of an issue since we get the benefit by doing what we did before: subscribing.

That, and there's a part of me that wants to punish the "I want to play for freeee" people for making this game go B2P, by making them second grade citizens with subscription. Irony wins

Still, I'd rather not have ESO+ grant XP bonus (atleast one that applies to CP)

Then come XP boosters, which are on a completely new level. You are basically extorting players to waste thousands each month on the game in order to stay competitive. P2W.

Quoting myself from previous reply, as I feel this is an adequate analogy:

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

I told you I did not want to see you use that thread on something like this. I voted I do not like p2w, and you stated that it didn't matter what one considers as pay 2 win, it was just a yes or no, and the definition of pay 2 win does not matter. I do not feel that the XP potions are pay to win, but I still answered I do not like P2W to your poll thread. This means that your poll is now invalid for this discussion, and means nothing.

DDuke · March 2015

eisberg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

Logic fail.

If you pay extra money to increase the rate at which you acquire experience points to gain champion points faster: you are paying to win.

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Only thing you have proven is your ignorance.

Rings of Mara are negligible, you need to sacrifice a ring slot for them, which means they are not usable in PvP or end game PvE, and might reduce your DPS enough to defeat the purpose of the XP boost.

ESO Plus is P2W, make no mistake. It is, however, much less of an issue since we get the benefit by doing what we did before: subscribing.

That, and there's a part of me that wants to punish the "I want to play for freeee" people for making this game go B2P, by making them second grade citizens with subscription. Irony wins

Still, I'd rather not have ESO+ grant XP bonus (atleast one that applies to CP)

Then come XP boosters, which are on a completely new level. You are basically extorting players to waste thousands each month on the game in order to stay competitive. P2W.

Quoting myself from previous reply, as I feel this is an adequate analogy:

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

I told you I did not want to see you use that thread on something like this. I voted I do not like p2w, and you stated that it didn't matter what one considers as pay 2 win, it was just a yes or no, and the definition of pay 2 win does not matter. I do not feel that the XP potions are pay to win, but I still answered I do not like P2W to your poll thread. This means that your poll is now invalid for this discussion, and means nothing.

Oh please. This fills the definition of P2W on every single imaginable level as explained in multiple pages, across multiple threads.

Regardless of how I feel about it, I'm simply stating that people do not want P2W (as proven by the poll). And clearly people feel this is P2W.

It is not really a question whether it is or isn't P2W anymore, but whether we want it or not.

Lastly, I don't really care what you tell me to do/not to do.

dietlime · March 2015

Kalfis wrote: »

dietlime wrote: »

Players who use boosters that strong will inevitably have a lead that others can't close without spending real money, one that translates into guaranteed wins in PvP

Lag is going to kill you waaaaaaaaaay before a player with slightly superior stats will.

I don't have hardware problems and network latency is only an intermittent issue.

theweakminded · March 2015

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

That has 215 votes, it is illogical to take that as a representative example of the views people have on P2W or reference to these potion.

Edit: Quote was broken

dietlime · March 2015

It wouldn't be P2W if the champion system had an attainable end.

Because it presents nearly infinite linear progression whoever has the faster progression will have a sustained statistical advantage.

eisberg · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

eisberg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

Logic fail.

If you pay extra money to increase the rate at which you acquire experience points to gain champion points faster: you are paying to win.

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Only thing you have proven is your ignorance.

Rings of Mara are negligible, you need to sacrifice a ring slot for them, which means they are not usable in PvP or end game PvE, and might reduce your DPS enough to defeat the purpose of the XP boost.

ESO Plus is P2W, make no mistake. It is, however, much less of an issue since we get the benefit by doing what we did before: subscribing.

That, and there's a part of me that wants to punish the "I want to play for freeee" people for making this game go B2P, by making them second grade citizens with subscription. Irony wins

Still, I'd rather not have ESO+ grant XP bonus (atleast one that applies to CP)

Then come XP boosters, which are on a completely new level. You are basically extorting players to waste thousands each month on the game in order to stay competitive. P2W.

Quoting myself from previous reply, as I feel this is an adequate analogy:

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

I told you I did not want to see you use that thread on something like this. I voted I do not like p2w, and you stated that it didn't matter what one considers as pay 2 win, it was just a yes or no, and the definition of pay 2 win does not matter. I do not feel that the XP potions are pay to win, but I still answered I do not like P2W to your poll thread. This means that your poll is now invalid for this discussion, and means nothing.

Oh please. This fills the definition of P2W on every single imaginable level as explained in multiple pages, across multiple threads.

Regardless of how I feel about it, I'm simply stating that people do not want P2W (as proven by the poll). And clearly people feel this is P2W.

It is not really a question whether it is or isn't P2W anymore, but whether we want it or not.

Lastly, I don't really care what you tell me to do/not to do.

And as has been explained so many times, XP potions are not P2W. Yes, people have different opinions, and now you are trying to use that poll to prove your point about these potions, when there are going to be people on that poll who do not believe that XP potions are pay 2 win. This means that you poll is completely irrelevant and invalid for this discussion.

You manipulated people on that poll of your for your own use.

eisberg · March 2015

theweakminded wrote: »

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

That has 215 votes, it is illogical to take that as a representative example of the views people have on P2W or reference to these potion.

Edit: Quote was broken

Plus he manipulated people to get the results he wanted. That poll is no where near to being valid.

Troneon · March 2015

OP is wrong, the champion system is what makes this pay 2 win. ZOS know what they are doing and they do not care.

theweakminded · March 2015

Troneon wrote: »

ZOS know what they are doing and they do not care.

You have no proof to this claim. Not to mention you have almost no information on the potion itself.

DDuke · March 2015

theweakminded wrote: »

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

That has 215 votes, it is illogical to take that as a representative example of the views people have on P2W or reference to these potion.

Edit: Quote was broken

Of course it has a margin of error (what poll doesn't). That'd be +-5.3% with 215 votes, which would still make it 75-85% of people.

MasterFUNG_ESO · March 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

There is no universally accepted definition of "win."

having a direct advantage over someone who does not pay money is the dictionary definition of P2W.

So technically a subscriber is paying to win because they get a 10% boost. This whole thing seems silly to me. If they even allow the potions to be bought with ingame gold its still pay to win because the people with alot of gold will have a bonus over those who dont. No matter what they do someone is going to cry this or that is P2W. IMO it just seems that the people who have invested a ton of hours just want to make sure they have the advantage over those that cant play that much.

eisberg · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

That has 215 votes, it is illogical to take that as a representative example of the views people have on P2W or reference to these potion.

Edit: Quote was broken

Of course it has a margin of error (what poll doesn't). That'd be +-5.3% with 215 votes, which would still make it 75-85% of people.

And? Doesn't mean that 75-85% of the people agree that the Potions are P2W.

nimander99 · March 2015

If the game was a stated race to the exp finish line then yes exp boosts would be p2w. I don't remember anyone claiming mmorpg's or rpg's were a race...

*Pulls out crystal ball* I predict this is ultimately going to be a non issue.

DDuke · March 2015

eisberg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

That has 215 votes, it is illogical to take that as a representative example of the views people have on P2W or reference to these potion.

Edit: Quote was broken

Of course it has a margin of error (what poll doesn't). That'd be +-5.3% with 215 votes, which would still make it 75-85% of people.

And? Doesn't mean that 75-85% of the people agree that the Potions are P2W.

No, it means 75-85% aren't ok with P2W, which is what the poll asked.

Update: 239 votes, margin of error is now +-5.2

eisberg · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

eisberg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.

That has 215 votes, it is illogical to take that as a representative example of the views people have on P2W or reference to these potion.

Edit: Quote was broken

Of course it has a margin of error (what poll doesn't). That'd be +-5.3% with 215 votes, which would still make it 75-85% of people.

And? Doesn't mean that 75-85% of the people agree that the Potions are P2W.

No, it means 75-85% aren't ok with P2W, which is what the poll asked.

Update: 239 votes, margin of error is now +-5.2

But you used it in this thread about the XP potions. In other words you posted an irrelevant poll in this thread.

Ysne58 · March 2015

You have no valid way of figuring out how this applies to the general game population. This has also been pointed out in many other polls that have been created.

No poll on a forum is valid for that very reason.

DDuke · March 2015

Ysne58 wrote: »

You have no valid way of figuring out how this applies to the general game population. This has also been pointed out in many other polls that have been created.

No poll on a forum is valid for that very reason.

That's where margin of error comes in.

There are enough votes to form a reasonably small margin of error.

For more on margin of error (I sense this is a new concept for some): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Update: 253 votes, margin of error now +-5.1%

Ley · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

You have no valid way of figuring out how this applies to the general game population. This has also been pointed out in many other polls that have been created.

No poll on a forum is valid for that very reason.

That's where margin of error comes in.

There are enough votes to form a reasonably small margin of error.

For more on margin of error (I sense this is a new concept for some): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Update: 253 votes, margin of error now +-5.1%

Unless your poll asks "Are 2 hour 50% exp potions P2W?" then it has no relevance to this thread.

I used to play "free" MMOs all the time. Those are typically p2w. This game is not even close, even if they add the exp pots.

Edit: Your poll got closed so I'll respond here..

Audigy · March 2015

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Feel free to look through my post history. I have never once claimed the ring of mara or the sub bonus wasn't. Also, I have never stated I hate this game. I just don't like the direction in which is going. I would have rather have had the game stayed with the subscription model. I despise cash shops.

Funny you bring up the ring of mara. I have the thing in my bank but have never completed the ritual to get the ring.
Nice try with the straw man attack to dodge the real problem.

So you are still an ESO Plus member then? Do you realize then that after your definition you are a supporter of P2W then? Really, you must touch your own nose here. You can not be against P2W and then use it

Truth is, you know very well that an XP boost has nothing to do with P2W. I would advice to go play GW2 or SWTOR to actually learn and understand what P2W really is. Just a friendly advice

That said, with the first DLC and increased stats and gear, your P2W concern will actually come true as players not buying those, will face huge disadvantages in gear and char progression.

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

Logic fail.

If you pay extra money to increase the rate at which you acquire experience points to gain champion points faster: you are paying to win.

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Only thing you have proven is your ignorance.

Rings of Mara are negligible, you need to sacrifice a ring slot for them, which means they are not usable in PvP or end game PvE, and might reduce your DPS enough to defeat the purpose of the XP boost.

Then come XP boosters, which are on a completely new level. You are basically extorting players to waste thousands each month on the game in order to stay competitive. P2W.

Have a good day.

I played games with boosts on rings or jewelry and I can tell you that the boost is quite big as you have it 24/7. No content is hard enough at ESO so that a player is forced to unequip the xp boosting item. This might be a case in competitive groups that rush the leaderboards, but honestly who is gaining CP´s like that?

Most players either quest or grind mobs and VR dungeons to gain CP´s and there you don't need good equip as the content is a walk in the park right now.

My chars still have items several levels lower than the content they play in, still I am totally overpowered.

As for PVP, you can ignore the lack of stats there as well, as the biggest stats loss is still coming from VR and CPs. You don't lose enough to not use the rings and as I said its a bonus which is there all the time.

The potions however, would only be there for a small amount of time.

In the end it was pretty clear that potions would come, I predicted this in November when I talked about the consequences of a CS implementation. Back then I was laughed at and only few understood what's coming. In the end the potions are a consequence and understandable step by ZOS to lower the gap between new and old players, a gap that already exists and which will increase even more as time goes on.

ZOS must offer them a catch up mechanism and they go for these potions. Since nobody can gain more than 3600 CP and XP is available for everyone, the P2W argument is invalid.

It would become valid if we talk about ESO plus as you admitted, but also if ZOS sells a DLC in the crown shop that allows superior XP gains or new items which are superior to those now. Both things will undoubtedly come in the next big DLC, this then will be the moment when you should make such threads

Ley · March 2015

Ley wrote: »
I can't vote in this poll because it will likely be misunderstood.

Most people here seem to consider just about anything sold for money p2w.

I absolutely do not support p2w but my idea of p2w is much more liberal than a lot of people here. It's being able to buy a direct advantage, than can not be gotten in game.

Exp can be gained in game, therefor I do not see exp pots as p2w (before you start.. yes yes, I understand CP and the advantage of having more than someone else).
Race change, ok.
Anything cosmetic, fine by me (as long as it's doesn't make the game look stupid).
Extra storage, character slots, not p2w.

If they start selling x hour potions that give you a damage/armor/hp/mp/stam/crit/speed boost, then I would be upset, that is p2w.
If they start selling gear powerful gear for money, that is p2w.
Faster horses, p2w.
Forward camps for cash only, p2w.

I've played a bunch of p2w games, seriously obvious p2w games; eso isn't even close.

-5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
+4.5% Stamina Regeneration
+5.1% more Healing Reduction
+5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
+9% Physical Critical Strike damage
+5.9% Armour Penetration
+1.2% Spell Resistance
-6.9% DoT damage taken
-5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
-5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
50% reduced Gathering times
Better items from Treasure Chests
15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

What if armour with these bonuses was sold next year, would it be P2W?

Those are the bonuses someone chugging potions non-stop gains over someone who's not.

It is essentially the very same result as selling gear (in fact, I haven't even seen equally strong bonuses in many F2P/B2P Cash Shop gear).

You pay for X and you end up with the same amount of Power, whether that's gear we're talking about or people using XP pots. Only difference is that this power isn't evident right away (it grows bigger & bigger over the years we're grinding Champion System).

If you consider powerful gear P2W, you have to consider XP Boosters also (as long as they affect CP).

Both the cause ($$$) & the result (power) are the exact same.

Clearly you will not accept that not everyone thinks exp pots are p2w. I assure you, I understand the implications and I'm telling you, I don't care, I don't consider it p2w.

We don't even know how much exp pots will cost. Lets say for a moment that it's 200-500 crowns per 2 hours, $1.00-$2.50 an hour. I can gain around 2cp an hour, I'm sure some people can gain more. So for every 2 I gain, they'd gain 3 and it'll cost them $1.00-$2.50. That's $1.00-$2.50 per extra CP, $100-$250 for 100, $1000-$2500 for 1000. If someone spends that much money AND grinds that many hours, kudos to them. I'd be glad that we have dedicated players supporting the game and hope I was in their party for pvp.

It may require more effort for someone not buying exp pots to keep up with those who are but there will always be people willing to go the extra mile to stay ahead and I'm ok wit that. I won't keep up with top cp farmers, with or without exp pots being in the game and I'm ok with that.

If anything, I think exp pots would be more fair than unfair. Giving people who have jobs and families a way to maximize their game play in the limited time they have.

I consider cash exclusive powerful gear p2w and do NOT have to consider exp pots p2w, contrary to your belief.

If they sold the CP outright, that I would have a problem with and yes, there is a difference.

I'll say it a 3rd time. I've played p2w games and eso isn't even close.

DDuke · March 2015

Audigy wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Feel free to look through my post history. I have never once claimed the ring of mara or the sub bonus wasn't. Also, I have never stated I hate this game. I just don't like the direction in which is going. I would have rather have had the game stayed with the subscription model. I despise cash shops.

Funny you bring up the ring of mara. I have the thing in my bank but have never completed the ritual to get the ring.
Nice try with the straw man attack to dodge the real problem.

So you are still an ESO Plus member then? Do you realize then that after your definition you are a supporter of P2W then? Really, you must touch your own nose here. You can not be against P2W and then use it

Truth is, you know very well that an XP boost has nothing to do with P2W. I would advice to go play GW2 or SWTOR to actually learn and understand what P2W really is. Just a friendly advice

That said, with the first DLC and increased stats and gear, your P2W concern will actually come true as players not buying those, will face huge disadvantages in gear and char progression.

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

Logic fail.

If you pay extra money to increase the rate at which you acquire experience points to gain champion points faster: you are paying to win.

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Only thing you have proven is your ignorance.

Rings of Mara are negligible, you need to sacrifice a ring slot for them, which means they are not usable in PvP or end game PvE, and might reduce your DPS enough to defeat the purpose of the XP boost.

Then come XP boosters, which are on a completely new level. You are basically extorting players to waste thousands each month on the game in order to stay competitive. P2W.

Have a good day.

I played games with boosts on rings or jewelry and I can tell you that the boost is quite big as you have it 24/7. No content is hard enough at ESO so that a player is forced to unequip the xp boosting item. This might be a case in competitive groups that rush the leaderboards, but honestly who is gaining CP´s like that?

Many people, once they implement the XP boosts to trials/dungeons. Also, ring slot is not something you can just neglect (+200 Stamina Regen for instance makes a huge, huge difference).

Audigy wrote: »

Most players either quest or grind mobs and VR dungeons to gain CP´s and there you don't need good equip as the content is a walk in the park right now.

Many people prefer actually beating the content. I doubt an item that increases your chances of losing at the expense of 10% XP Boost can be considered P2W. Just test out how fast you run out of stamina/magicka by sacrifing one of the ring slots.

Audigy wrote: »

My chars still have items several levels lower than the content they play in, still I am totally overpowered.

Ah, so you don't even play at the top, and you pretend to know how top players behave and play? You are really not in a position to make those claims.

As someone with over 90 days /played, BiS legendary gear for all roles and 99% of the game's achievements (13880), I believe my expertise here is slightly more credible.

Audigy wrote: »

As for PVP, you can ignore the lack of stats there as well, as the biggest stats loss is still coming from VR and CPs. You don't lose enough to not use the rings and as I said its a bonus which is there all the time.

You sound more & more like free AP to me

Audigy wrote: »

The potions however, would only be there for a small amount of time.

Potions are there forever as long as you have cash. You'd be surprised how many people spends tens of thousands of $$$ yearly (even monthly) in some MMOs.

Audigy wrote: »

In the end it was pretty clear that potions would come, I predicted this in November when I talked about the consequences of a CS implementation. Back then I was laughed at and only few understood what's coming. In the end the potions are a consequence and understandable step by ZOS to lower the gap between new and old players, a gap that already exists and which will increase even more as time goes on.

Now, that is the biggest fallacy you've said so far. It's been explained multiple times how XP boosters only serve to widen the gap between those who play little and those who play a lot, regardless of how you'd like it to work. Let's try again:

Decimus plays 8 hours a day.
Average Joe plays 6 hours a day. (25% less than Decimus)
Mike the Grinder plays 12 hours a day. (50% more than Decimus)

Average Joe uses potions, he now essentially plays 9 hours a day (12.5% more than Decimus)
Mike the Grinder uses potions, he now essentially plays 18 hours a day (125% more than Decimus)

Very simple math.

Before you go on about diminishing returns, see the comparisons I made (all over the place, since people don't read. Search).

Audigy wrote: »

ZOS must offer them a catch up mechanism and they go for these potions. Since nobody can gain more than 3600 CP and XP is available for everyone, the P2W argument is invalid.

3600 CP is not available to anyone for the next 5-10 years. 1 CP/day is the average for people, feel free to count for yourself. There's also no guarantees more CPs won't be added (I'd be surprised if they didn't).

Summa summarum, game is in fact P2W for the next 5-10 years if these boosters are released. See the hamster wheel analogy.

Audigy wrote: »

It would become valid if we talk about ESO plus as you admitted, but also if ZOS sells a DLC in the crown shop that allows superior XP gains or new items which are superior to those now. Both things will undoubtedly come in the next big DLC, this then will be the moment when you should make such threads

DLC is freely available to every subscriber, or separately from Cash Shop. There are no special perks only small part of the population can gain, so I fail to see how it equates to P2W.

Unless you mean that they'd put separate P2W things into Cash Shop along with DLC releases? Even so, they'll really have to try if they want something even more P2W than the XP Boosters.

Forestd16b14_ESO · March 2015

EXP boost or 2X EXP what ever it is isn't a pay to win alot of games do it. What you rather ZoS do what WoW does and pay them 10 actually dollars and advance 10 actual levels in game with out working for it? That's pay to win, double EXP is not. Pay to win is defind as paying the company for serves that gives a unfair advantage to other players who do not pay them for the same serves e.x. a powerful weapon or armor special skills ect ect. I personaly last time I checked alot of games not just rpgs but game in general didn't consider 2EXP a pay to win or OP. Plus you get them in the crown store not actually paying your real money for them.