To all of you who think EXP Boosting Potions are Pay to Win: You're wrong.

Psychobunni · March 2015

Well I think a better solution would be having enlightenment adjust to the player. How long logged off said character, where earning (CP will matter in pvp). I myself would like a quicker way to V14, but I understand the concern players have about differences in CP allotments.

I also understand ZOS needs to make $$ and selling exp potions will do that, but I think tweaking the enlightenment system will make a more level playing field, thus keeping players more long term.

Avindra · March 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

I don't think anyone has any issue with people using them to get to VR14. Where people are concerned is after VR1 (or, after VR14) where this XP may count towards Champion Points. That's what everyone cares about. The gap is already quite large between hardcore players and casuals. This would cause that gap to grow even larger, and that DOES matter in PvP

[EDIT] I would be fine with XP potions that boost it by 10% (and could last a bit longer), as that would be a paid way to be equal to the paying subscribers.

Yeah, pretty sure most people would be fine with that, as their were no arguments and none of use were complaining when they had said it would be 10%.

No one complained about 10% probably because it may as well be 0%.
10% more XP on top of crap XP is still crap.

Lethal_Instinct · March 2015

Maybe ZOS realized that it is going to take too long to reach max CP points by current standards--if you have a life and don't play a minimum of 24 hours a day?

Maybe without the XP potions, the casual player won't even hit max CP points before ZOS makes changes to the system to give the game a nice, fresh feel?

Maybe casual players using XP potions won't earn as much CP points as a hardcore gamer--because they still play less?

Maybe giving casual-moderate players the ability to one day catch up to hardcore gamers will allow more players to participate in PVP and PVE content more effectively and not feel like they are a crutch to their fellow group members?

Maybe instead of being selfish and feeling like I should be the strongest player in the game over anyone else we could be grateful that the person fighting by our side is comparable in their abilities (hopefully, since higher stats =/= skill) and our opponents (PVP) actually give us a challenge?

"BUT IT IS P2W!" -- anyone have anything more insightful than throwing this argument around?

Also, claiming that casual players are less deserving of being able to gain CP points at a faster rate is not a good argument either. Please tell me that hardcore gamers aren't going to take advantage of this to hit max CP points sooner than later? If this is a deal-breaker for hardcore gamers, then maybe they don't really love the game as much as they play? Is it worth abandoning your efforts because others can one day cap out like you--whether it is a the same, faster or slower rate?

Just my own personal thoughts and opinions. Whiners will be whiners and mature players will let others just enjoy the game at their own pace while they enjoy the game at their own.

See you in Tamriel!

...or not?

Zershar_Vemod · March 2015

100% WRONG OP.

Even if ZOS lowers the XP boosts from 50%, there will be players gaining skills, updated stats, etc. at a faster rate than a player leveling by normal means. Additionally, CP will be gained at a faster rate which directly leads to better performance.

Gidorick · March 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

There is no universally accepted definition of "win."

having a direct advantage over someone who does not pay money is the dictionary definition of P2W.

direct "statistical" advantage. Some would think having a cool cosmetic item would be an esthetic advantage.

I don't see how a competitive game could exist from a cash shop without pay to win items.

linoge63 · March 2015

Whats the issue ?

You are free to pay as well...whether someone else does or doesnt doesnt impact your free will to do so.

Focus on your choice and let other do the same.

This pay to win is natural and happens in your so called "real world" every day. The tennis star whos parents chose to spend resources to groom their child in advanced lessons has an advantage over players whos parents chose to spend their attention and resources in other ways...

You are the parent of your toon..where you choose to spend your attention and resources is a free will choice by you..and if you choose NOT to pay...that should not dictate to others if they do or not...anymore than if i choose to pay, should not dictate if you HAVE to pay either....you might not win, but u can still play. ...and in time you will still arrive..and have those same resources and abilities...meanwhile enjoying those other things you chose to enjoy along the way that i am not.

PKMN12 · March 2015

linoge63 wrote: »

Whats the issue ?

You are free to pay as well...whether someone else does or doesnt doesnt impact your free will to do so.

Focus on your choice and let other do the same.

actually it does have an impact. without those potions everyone has a chance in PVP and PVE. WITH those potions, there will be an expected number of champ points that will be required by groups in PVE and PVP will simply be the winners be whoever payed the most money.

MorHawk · March 2015

linoge63 wrote: »

Whats the issue ?
You are free to pay as well...whether someone else does or doesn't doesn't impact your free will to do so.
Focus on your choice and let other do the same.

Except even for the most dedicated grinders, it'll still be many months until they hit 3600CPs. And us humble plebs who still haven't hit VR yet? Haha, good luck taking two breaths in PvP.

Avindra · March 2015

MorHawk wrote: »

linoge63 wrote: »

Whats the issue ?
You are free to pay as well...whether someone else does or doesn't doesn't impact your free will to do so.
Focus on your choice and let other do the same.

Except even for the most dedicated grinders, it'll still be many months until they hit 2600CPs. And us humble plebs who still haven't hit VR yet? Haha, good luck taking two breaths in PvP.

Except even for the most dedicated grinders, it'll still be many Years until they hit 2600CPs.

Fixed it.

Obscure · March 2015

A potion for 50% faster EXP gain for 2 hours with a 7200 second (2 hour) cool down...

Firstly, since it's a potion Nightblade's should have an advantage, also there's gear options to boost the duration and effectiveness of potions.

Secondly "Pay2Win", the term itself, creates a misidentification of what it's being used to define. Pay To Win defines games that implement a extremely time consuming, difficult, and some times literally impossible task that blockades progression, then offers the players items for a premium that permit them to accomplish that task faster, or easier, or literally the only method to complete it at all.

The argument that the Champion System is the deliberately difficult task blockading progression, and that the XP potion is the item being sold to make the task easier, is a stretch, and at worst the softest brand of Pay To Win. To draw a correlation, if the a Champion potion were implemented that just gave the player a lump sum of Champion Points to spend, that would be a more grievous form of Pay To Win. Once more to draw a correlation, if a potion that just made a character maximum champion level were implemented, that would be the hardest form of Pay To Win in the XP metric. You'll notice the difference between the softer forms and the harder forms is the "booster" still requires players to actively play, the hard pay to win option just requires the player to spend money. Not all Pay To Win is created equal, and it takes many different forms.

The Experience Booster is in a grey area of Pay To Win, where it is in fact paying to expedite a deliberately slow process but it doesn't actually expedite the process without the player actively playing. I.E. it doesn't just hand the player the XP, they have to actually do something. If it was just "here's some experience kid, I'll give you another bunch in 2 hours" then I'd firmly identify it as Pay To Win. As it stands it's only kinda Pay To Win, and if pressed by someone who can only function in absolutes, "It IS or it ISN'T!", "can only see in black and white" types, I'd have to give it to the folks who call it Pay To Win, but by the slimmest of margins. This is only because the game design is encouraging players to spend money based on an obstacle in the game (Champion Points) deliberately implemented in a way that can be lessened for a premium.

Subjectively, I find the entire scenario to be a bunch of bull ***. If someone offers me the opportunity to watch a movie in fast forward if I give them more money I'd tell them they can watch me fast forward my foot up their ass. If it's a movie I don't want to sit through the full length because it sucks, I'm not going to pay extra to make it go faster, I'm just going to go see a different movie. Good entertainment design in general is about the journey, not the destination. If the destination is the only focus, you're not being entertained, you're just in transit. It's the difference between taking a Cruise Boat to Alaska and flying coach on an Airline to Alaska...one you do just to have a good time, the other you do just to effin' get there, and you'd literally want to pay to make it be over faster.

MorHawk · March 2015

Avindra wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

linoge63 wrote: »

Whats the issue ?
You are free to pay as well...whether someone else does or doesn't doesn't impact your free will to do so.
Focus on your choice and let other do the same.

Except even for the most dedicated grinders, it'll still be many months until they hit 2600CPs. And us humble plebs who still haven't hit VR yet? Haha, good luck taking two breaths in PvP.

Except even for the most dedicated grinders, it'll still be many Years until they hit 2600CPs.

Fixed it.

You couldn't fix it to read "3600" while you were there? Shocking.

Aerieth · March 2015

angel59 wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

As long as these potions don't increase Champion Experience, I'm fine with them.

Champion Points equal power. If you gain more power with exact same playtime - and exp gaining method - than another who's not using the potions, that's the very definition of "Pay to Win". You pay real money to gain a huge advantage over players not spending money. How hard is that for people to understand?

So I guess that we should limit daily playtime. Otherwise you may have more cp today than me because you can play 6 hours and I can only play 2. Seems fair to do it that way based on your comments.

At the end of the day, year or decade we will all be at the same place. It is the rate of gains that that the p2w want limited, except when they are ahead of everyone else (Whatever that means). There is no diffefence at the end of the journey. Therefore, there is no pay to win.

If you are afraid someone may get ahead, then you should be arguing for a fixed period of playtime. Once you hit that, yoy have to stop. Or ZOS can allow you to play, but you get no experience or cp points. Now that seems fair.

You don't seem to understand my point. I don't grind and I don't farm tens of dungeons daily. You are likely to have more Champion Points than me. I'm fine with that.

Imagine this: You enter a football tournament with your friends. You're up against teams with around the same skill level. What if your opponent pays the tournament organizer to count every goal your opponents make as two points, while the goals your team makes only count for one? Would that be okay to you? I bet not. How about every two goals counting as three (+50%)? Though, I don't think you'd feel this way if you faced a team that's been practicing longer than yours has and has an advantage over you because of that instead of paying for the advantage. They worked hard to get better and that's why they'd be more likely to win.

And sure, we can all get to the max Champion Point amount eventually. But let's for the sake of the argument say that it would take you three years to get to that point without Experience boosters. Now, let's say another person paid for Experience boosters for the whole way to 3600 Champion Points. Also, let's say you both play the exact same amount of time every day and you both do the same kind of content (same amount of exp per hour) and you both are of equal skill. For the whole three years, you'd be fighting against a player who has 50% more Champion Points than you. From the start to finish, you'd be fighting against a player who's character is constantly gaining more and more advantages over yours, not because they put more effort into it, not because they are of higher skill. They'd have an advantage over you simply because they paid to the "tournament organizer". For three years, you'd be playing against a person who paid to win over you. So tell me, what would be the point of playing a game like that?

Gaining an advantage over other players in games by other means than playing the game is considered cheating. In sports and video games alike. I hope you see our side of the argument. Why so many of us think that paying real money for advantages in-game is bad.

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

As long as these potions don't increase Champion Experience, I'm fine with them.

Who is going to buy them then? They would be next to useless as the VR1-14 grind is short and easy. And how is ZOS going to fund their game? You think people will buy mounts and costumes over and over? Or would they purchase more quantity of XP potions to waste less time grinding out CPs and levels?

If noone buys from the Crown Store and/or subs, then there will be no game. People will purchase XP potions, ZOS isn't stupid.

Where would ZOS get funding? How about new content? That's why I'm still subbed. New crown store cosmetic items? I'm down with that. I've spent cash in the shop and I intend to do so in the future if I continue playing. Like many others, I support games I like playing.

As someone justifying the potions mentioned: "Only 1% of the player base is at VR14", wouldn't that make 99% of the players possible buyers of said exp potions, even if they didn't count towards Champion Points? Many people also like to level up alts. There's another great demographic for non-CP affecting exp boosters. Experience boosts for actual character levels would sell really well. I'm fine with paying a few bucks to speed up the leveling part on new characters.

And nobody is saying that the potions wouldn't be bought, if they affected Champion Points. Of course they would, at least by those who would actually stick around if they were to be introduced. That would be the only way to actually stay competitive in end-game. If you subscribe (pay 15 dollars / 13 euros a month) and you'd still have to pay hundreds of dollars / euros worth of exp potions per month to have a fighting change against people with equal skill level, myself and numerous other gamers would call it quits. Perhaps not because of the lack of funds, but for the principle. I don't play with cheaters (see the response above).

The point wasn't that they wouldn't sell. The point is that a big part of the community thinks that it will ruin the integrity of the game. If the game has no integrity, there's no point in playing. If a big part of the community thinks that there's no point in playing, what do you think they will do? Stick around buying exp potions just because they can? I highly doubt that.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO · March 2015

Did I miss something in the cash shop?

I don't even see resource potions let alone experience pots.

eisberg · March 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

It normally would NOT be a problem. the problem here is that there is something AFTER leveling that requires XP and seriously effects how good you are in terms of stats. If it was not for the Champion point system, no one woul be complaining. Thanks to the Champion System those XP pots means MUCH better stats than a normal person is likely to get. at a 70% boost with the rings of mara and sub bonus, someone who buys these thigns are going to have MUCH better stats than someone who did not.

Someone who plays more will also have more CP points then someone who plays less. With or without XP boosts, everybody will be have different levels of CP, the XP boosts do not change this.

badmojo · March 2015

eisberg wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

It normally would NOT be a problem. the problem here is that there is something AFTER leveling that requires XP and seriously effects how good you are in terms of stats. If it was not for the Champion point system, no one woul be complaining. Thanks to the Champion System those XP pots means MUCH better stats than a normal person is likely to get. at a 70% boost with the rings of mara and sub bonus, someone who buys these thigns are going to have MUCH better stats than someone who did not.

Someone who plays more will also have more CP points then someone who plays less. With or without XP boosts, everybody will be have different levels of CP, the XP boosts do not change this.

The problem is that someone using the boosts will usually have more in the same amount of playtime. It becomes impossible for someone without the potions to compete with those using them.

I'll throw a price out there for arguments sake. Let's say they charge 400 crowns for a 2 hour potion. If a hardcore player plays this game on average about 6 hours a day, that's $12 a day they're going to have to pay towards ESO if they ever want an opportunity to compete.

Point is, some people can afford to throw away money every day, do we really want that real life factor to play any part in our video games? What if they don't charge 400 crowns, but say 4000 crowns. Are you guys still going to support this game mechanic if people are spending hundreds of dollars a day to gain an advantage? What about thousands?

If we're going to embrace these EXP pots, why not give players the options to skip leveling entirely? 100k crowns for vr14. 50k crowns for 50 champion points, 10k crowns for full horse stats, 5k for gold set rings, 25k for 1000 slot bank upgrade. We wouldn't want to inconvenience any players with having to play the game... at least not if they can afford it.

Majic · March 2015

For A Few Dollars More

The Achilles' Heel of symmetric PvP is pierced when asymmetry is introduced.

Uneven character stats introduce asymmetry by giving some players stronger characters than others, making it easier for them to win in direct competition, all else remaining equal.

Champion Points make characters stronger, and Champion Points are earned by gaining Experience Points, therefore anything which boosts experience gain makes characters stronger, faster, yielding an advantage.

When a player can purchase such advantages, it is commonly referred to as "Pay to Win".

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2015

Aerieth wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

As long as these potions don't increase Champion Experience, I'm fine with them.

Champion Points equal power. If you gain more power with exact same playtime - and exp gaining method - than another who's not using the potions, that's the very definition of "Pay to Win". You pay real money to gain a huge advantage over players not spending money. How hard is that for people to understand?

So I guess that we should limit daily playtime. Otherwise you may have more cp today than me because you can play 6 hours and I can only play 2. Seems fair to do it that way based on your comments.

At the end of the day, year or decade we will all be at the same place. It is the rate of gains that that the p2w want limited, except when they are ahead of everyone else (Whatever that means). There is no diffefence at the end of the journey. Therefore, there is no pay to win.

If you are afraid someone may get ahead, then you should be arguing for a fixed period of playtime. Once you hit that, yoy have to stop. Or ZOS can allow you to play, but you get no experience or cp points. Now that seems fair.

You don't seem to understand my point. I don't grind and I don't farm tens of dungeons daily. You are likely to have more Champion Points than me. I'm fine with that.

Imagine this: You enter a football tournament with your friends. You're up against teams with around the same skill level. What if your opponent pays the tournament organizer to count every goal your opponents make as two points, while the goals your team makes only count for one? Would that be okay to you? I bet not. How about every two goals counting as three (+50%)? Though, I don't think you'd feel this way if you faced a team that's been practicing longer than yours has and has an advantage over you because of that instead of paying for the advantage. They worked hard to get better and that's why they'd be more likely to win.

And sure, we can all get to the max Champion Point amount eventually. But let's for the sake of the argument say that it would take you three years to get to that point without Experience boosters. Now, let's say another person paid for Experience boosters for the whole way to 3600 Champion Points. Also, let's say you both play the exact same amount of time every day and you both do the same kind of content (same amount of exp per hour) and you both are of equal skill. For the whole three years, you'd be fighting against a player who has 50% more Champion Points than you. From the start to finish, you'd be fighting against a player who's character is constantly gaining more and more advantages over yours, not because they put more effort into it, not because they are of higher skill. They'd have an advantage over you simply because they paid to the "tournament organizer". For three years, you'd be playing against a person who paid to win over you. So tell me, what would be the point of playing a game like that?

Gaining an advantage over other players in games by other means than playing the game is considered cheating. In sports and video games alike. I hope you see our side of the argument. Why so many of us think that paying real money for advantages in-game is bad.

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

As long as these potions don't increase Champion Experience, I'm fine with them.

Who is going to buy them then? They would be next to useless as the VR1-14 grind is short and easy. And how is ZOS going to fund their game? You think people will buy mounts and costumes over and over? Or would they purchase more quantity of XP potions to waste less time grinding out CPs and levels?

If noone buys from the Crown Store and/or subs, then there will be no game. People will purchase XP potions, ZOS isn't stupid.

Where would ZOS get funding? How about new content? That's why I'm still subbed. New crown store cosmetic items? I'm down with that. I've spent cash in the shop and I intend to do so in the future if I continue playing. Like many others, I support games I like playing.

As someone justifying the potions mentioned: "Only 1% of the player base is at VR14", wouldn't that make 99% of the players possible buyers of said exp potions, even if they didn't count towards Champion Points? Many people also like to level up alts. There's another great demographic for non-CP affecting exp boosters. Experience boosts for actual character levels would sell really well. I'm fine with paying a few bucks to speed up the leveling part on new characters.

And nobody is saying that the potions wouldn't be bought, if they affected Champion Points. Of course they would, at least by those who would actually stick around if they were to be introduced. That would be the only way to actually stay competitive in end-game. If you subscribe (pay 15 dollars / 13 euros a month) and you'd still have to pay hundreds of dollars / euros worth of exp potions per month to have a fighting change against people with equal skill level, myself and numerous other gamers would call it quits. Perhaps not because of the lack of funds, but for the principle. I don't play with cheaters (see the response above).

The point wasn't that they wouldn't sell. The point is that a big part of the community thinks that it will ruin the integrity of the game. If the game has no integrity, there's no point in playing. If a big part of the community thinks that there's no point in playing, what do you think they will do? Stick around buying exp potions just because they can? I highly doubt that.

I think that's a big part of the issue. P2W elements in games have consistently killed pvp for me, because I find it ridiculous to have to spend hundreds of dollars a month to remain competitive in a videogame. I can always go play basketball for the price of a basketball for free and have fun. I'm in total agreement with the spirit of what you're saying here. The game developers should be focusing on making the game fun. If they confuse fun with some really weird form of gambling addiction, they're missing the boat as far as I am concerned.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · March 2015

Comments like yours make me miss the lol. Sure if you only pve it doesn't effect you but when the people who play a ton and xp boost on top of that start getting 100's of cp ahead of casuals, you would need to completely lack rational skills to be blind to the fact of a widening power gap in PvP; Where the power of players certainly effects you.

Crica · March 2015

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Comments like yours make me miss the lol. Sure if you only pve it doesn't effect you but when the people who play a ton and xp boost on top of that start getting 100's of cp ahead of casuals, you would need to completely lack rational skills to be blind to the fact of a widening power gap in PvP; Where the power of players certainly effects you.

there are players in the game RIGHT NOW that have more CP then you and can "crush you in pvp", why does it matter if more exist in the game then right now?

if you want to pvp with players who only have as much CP as you, ask ZOS to bracket the pvp matches, but asking ZOS to not let anyone have more CP then you is kinda silly, cuz they ALREADY exist in the game

Grigs · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

EXP Boosting Potions (on moderate levels, nothing exorbitant like a 5000% boost) give absolutely no statistical benefit to any one player over another.

It is exactly like Zenimax said it was: A convenience item. All it does is allow players to reach higher Veteran levels slightly faster. And guess what? It's never going to affect you. You'll never be affected in any negative way over these potions. Most of the time, you're not going to know anyone is even using one.

"BUT WAIT" - Concerned All-Knowing Player "This means that people will be able to level all of their Alts to VR14 and get MAX ARMOUR and have ALL THE SKILLPOINTS in less than A DAY. HOW IS THAT NOT PAY TO WIN??!11!?"

Relax, it's not like people are suddenly going to appear as max level with the best gear/max skillpoints as soon as they drink the potion. It is still going to take a considerable amount of time to level even one character past VR1. And even then, they'll always be ahead of their zones leveling curb, meaning they'll either have to take the same amount of time obtaining skyshards/skillpoints, or just ignore them entirely.

You won't notice it. If you log off one day, you can log on the next and not even know how much/little someone has level'd up over night. And it wouldn't matter, there are already thousands of players at max level. You would never be able to look into a crowd and say, "That one used XP boosting potions.". Not to mention they'll be buyable with in-game gold.

These potions will not:

* Make anyone stronger than another.
* Magically create super strong VR14 characters in a week. Or even a month.
* Give anyone End-Game armour or stats.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

In Wow, you can literally buy max level characters.

Can you all just chill out? A Temporary 2 hour 50% XP boosting potion, that you have to rebuy constantly to even feel the best effects from it, is not going to hurt anyone.

Champion system says: Hi, you're wrong.

This is just a cleverly disguised troll post. You can tell by the topic title. It is bait, "everyone is wrong"

Right, troll hunting time.

rynth · March 2015

This is a game lol some people take this waaaaay to seriously if a casual player wants to buy boosts so that they can play in areas for higher up people or if people have more then one ch. they want to level faster so be it. Get over yourselves you are in no way being hurt by this. You still have ability play the game and all that. Those with do boosts still have to get gear and everything. If you don't support co boost don't buy it or don't play the game you guys act like this isn't a norm of for MMO

Dekkameron · March 2015

XP potions is easily available just adds weight to a previous thread of mine - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/156855/the-champion-system-in-my-mind-will-ultimately-kill-eso/p1

Grao · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

EXP Boosting Potions (on moderate levels, nothing exorbitant like a 5000% boost) give absolutely no statistical benefit to any one player over another.

It is exactly like Zenimax said it was: A convenience item. All it does is allow players to reach higher Veteran levels slightly faster. And guess what? It's never going to affect you. You'll never be affected in any negative way over these potions. Most of the time, you're not going to know anyone is even using one.

"BUT WAIT" - Concerned All-Knowing Player "This means that people will be able to level all of their Alts to VR14 and get MAX ARMOUR and have ALL THE SKILLPOINTS in less than A DAY. HOW IS THAT NOT PAY TO WIN??!11!?"

Relax, it's not like people are suddenly going to appear as max level with the best gear/max skillpoints as soon as they drink the potion. It is still going to take a considerable amount of time to level even one character past VR1. And even then, they'll always be ahead of their zones leveling curb, meaning they'll either have to take the same amount of time obtaining skyshards/skillpoints, or just ignore them entirely.

You won't notice it. If you log off one day, you can log on the next and not even know how much/little someone has level'd up over night. And it wouldn't matter, there are already thousands of players at max level. You would never be able to look into a crowd and say, "That one used XP boosting potions.". Not to mention they'll be buyable with in-game gold.

These potions will not:

* Make anyone stronger than another.
* Magically create super strong VR14 characters in a week. Or even a month.
* Give anyone End-Game armour or stats.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

In Wow, you can literally buy max level characters.

Can you all just chill out? A Temporary 2 hour 50% XP boosting potion, that you have to rebuy constantly to even feel the best effects from it, is not going to hurt anyone.

WTF are you talking about? EXP boosts are only acceptable (not P2W) when the leveling or ranking system is limited and that cap is easy to achieve. That is not the case with the champion system, someone with this potions will be able to achieve 3600 points at the same I time I will be reaching 2700 points, even though we are playing the same game, the same amount of time. It is ridiculous.

Oh, and by the way, you can level up in WOW extremely easily because they don't nerf every and all grind spots. No, they are very much fine with people grinding their levels because the game is all about the late game content. Your example is beyond impossible to apply here.

Now, if ESO was selling a "get to lvl 50" boost, Id be all for it. You can actually get to lvl 50 in about two of grinding, so the boost would be simply for convenience, but to go from 2700 CPs to 3600 CPS it will take someone at least 2 months to grind, unless they decide to use the pay to win potion.

LordSkyKnight · March 2015

rynth wrote: »

This is a game lol some people take this waaaaay to seriously if a casual player wants to buy boosts so that they can play in areas for higher up people or if people have more then one ch. they want to level faster so be it. Get over yourselves you are in no way being hurt by this. You still have ability play the game and all that. Those with do boosts still have to get gear and everything. If you don't support co boost don't buy it or don't play the game you guys act like this isn't a norm of for MMO

Here we are once again with someone that clearly doesn't understand the issue and just dismisses it. Nobody cares if someone uses to the boost to get to 50 and wants to level faster in their almighty solo online Skyrim game. The problem arises with the experience changes at end game and the nature of the champion system in the competitive environment with pvp and end game raiding.

Also using the old, they do that in other MMOs, is not a good arguing point to use.

hanilvor · March 2015

It's a way for us filthy casuals with families and jobs to keep up with the elitists that can somehow manage to play 24/7. Why is that so threatening? Do the skills of these elitist players only relate to time spent grinding like a monkey? Let the filthy casuals subsidise your epic 24/7 grinding and quit with the qq.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

hanilvor wrote: »

It's a way for us filthy casuals with families and jobs to keep up with the elitists that can somehow manage to play 24/7. Why is that so threatening? Do the skills of these elitist players only relate to time spent grinding like a monkey? Let the filthy casuals subsidise your

Do you think someone who plays 24/7 (so they can be THE BEST) is more or less inclined to buy these pots, than "casuals" who like other activites, such as family or fishing (IRL!!) ?

In my mind, im pretty sure the 24/7 crew will always be potted (at least when they're earning meaningful XP) and that casuals will only be potted sometimes (like when doing a daily or entering a new quest hub etc).

Morshire · March 2015

hanilvor wrote: »

It's a way for us filthy casuals with families and jobs to keep up with the elitists that can somehow manage to play 24/7. Why is that so threatening? Do the skills of these elitist players only relate to time spent grinding like a monkey? Let the filthy casuals subsidise your

@hanilvor - I am not sure things are the way you see them, at least for me. You think the potion will allow you to keep up? That would be true if you were the only one using them. But since everyone can/will use them, your problem gets worse. Say the gap now is 50 CP and 3 VR levels. Casual player uses 50% XP boost for 2 hours a night. to level. But the hardcore who has 8 hours to play is doing the same. 50% boost for them = 6 extra hours playing with 50% boost to all gains. That problem is way worse now. Instead of just trying to close the gap that the 6 extra hours gives the hardcore player, you also need to contend with the 50% boost. Nothing solved. Worse now, is that some casual player starts in say 6 months. They still only get the 2 hours a night, but the hardcore has had 6 months of 50% boosts and 8 hours a day. This time is spent in a system that has no limit and is constantly expanding.

No one would be even considering XP boosts if there was a reasonable cap to levels and CP (What we had with VR14 only), if there was fun and challenging content for all levels/aspects of the game, and if new and challenging content was coming at some steady pace. The only thing the XP booster proves is that ZOS chooses to focus on creating a virtual environment that lures you into feeling of despair, and then they look like heroes by offering a "convenient" fix for $$$. Kind of reminds me of how arms dealing works. Create the conflict, offer powerful items to squash the enemy with, offer to both sides, and laugh all the way to the bank.

This colossal mountain they are calling CS, mixed with the constant XP nerfing, mixed with limited content, add in some competitive elements, and throw in a crown store. BAABAM - ZOS gets rich and we get led along. Good business. However, our frustration is focused on casual/hardcore, name calling, frustration, etc. The real problem we should be up in arms about....why would the suits at ZOS create this? Why wouldn't they keep us entertained with a game that we enjoyed from all aspects? If this was the best game ever, no one would care what level they were, or how many CP they needed, because they would be completely satisfied with where they were. This would make the game healthier, and people would have paid to just keep playing.

(Just my opinion and not meant to belittle anyone or their opinion)

hanilvor · March 2015

Morshire wrote: »

hanilvor wrote: »

It's a way for us filthy casuals with families and jobs to keep up with the elitists that can somehow manage to play 24/7. Why is that so threatening? Do the skills of these elitist players only relate to time spent grinding like a monkey? Let the filthy casuals subsidise your

@hanilvor - I am not sure things are the way you see them, at least for me. You think the potion will allow you to keep up? That would be true if you were the only one using them. But since everyone can/will use them, your problem gets worse. Say the gap now is 50 CP and 3 VR levels. Casual player uses 50% XP boost for 2 hours a night. to level. But the hardcore who has 8 hours to play is doing the same. 50% boost for them = 6 extra hours playing with 50% boost to all gains. That problem is way worse now. Instead of just trying to close the gap that the 6 extra hours gives the hardcore player, you also need to contend with the 50% boost. Nothing solved. Worse now, is that some casual player starts in say 6 months. They still only get the 2 hours a night, but the hardcore has had 6 months of 50% boosts and 8 hours a day. This time is spent in a system that has no limit and is constantly expanding.

No one would be even considering XP boosts if there was a reasonable cap to levels and CP (What we had with VR14 only), if there was fun and challenging content for all levels/aspects of the game, and if new and challenging content was coming at some steady pace. The only thing the XP booster proves is that ZOS chooses to focus on creating a virtual environment that lures you into feeling of despair, and then they look like heroes by offering a "convenient" fix for $$$. Kind of reminds me of how arms dealing works. Create the conflict, offer powerful items to squash the enemy with, offer to both sides, and laugh all the way to the bank.

This colossal mountain they are calling CS, mixed with the constant XP nerfing, mixed with limited content, add in some competitive elements, and throw in a crown store. BAABAM - ZOS gets rich and we get led along. Good business. However, our frustration is focused on casual/hardcore, name calling, frustration, etc. The real problem we should be up in arms about....why would the suits at ZOS create this? Why wouldn't they keep us entertained with a game that we enjoyed from all aspects? If this was the best game ever, no one would care what level they were, or how many CP they needed, because they would be completely satisfied with where they were. This would make the game healthier, and people would have paid to just keep playing.

(Just my opinion and not meant to belittle anyone or their opinion)

@Morshire That's a really good point, a distinct possibility that I had not thought of. However in my last mmo, which had the xp boosts, that never really occurred. Most of the hardcore players never used the boost, out of pride or for just plain financial reasons.

That being said I could see how ESO could be different, with the Champion system and all.

Audigy · March 2015

Avindra wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

I don't think anyone has any issue with people using them to get to VR14. Where people are concerned is after VR1 (or, after VR14) where this XP may count towards Champion Points. That's what everyone cares about. The gap is already quite large between hardcore players and casuals. This would cause that gap to grow even larger, and that DOES matter in PvP

[EDIT] I would be fine with XP potions that boost it by 10% (and could last a bit longer), as that would be a paid way to be equal to the paying subscribers.

Yeah, pretty sure most people would be fine with that, as their were no arguments and none of use were complaining when they had said it would be 10%.

No one complained about 10% probably because it may as well be 0%.
10% more XP on top of crap XP is still crap.

The reason they didn't complain is because they actually take advantage of the boost, just like with the Rings of Mara. What they have is always fine, its what they don't have that bothers them.

Jealousy and what not.

Seriously, I couldn't care less about what others do in games that I play. How these people will ever have fun is a miracle to me, always looking left and right and if somebody might be more advanced then them... must be a frustrating way to play online games

BigM · March 2015

You guys hear that?

It's the death scream of ESO! Molag Bal has won!