A plea to the PvP community (And PvE'ers too)…

IcyDeadPeople · March 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Yolokin, a very well thought out and presented opening post.

I have only been playing ESO for 3 weeks, already I am totally in love with the game world, and despite the game now being B2P I am reasonably certain (99%) that I will continue with my subscription. The game really is very good, and although I am - in the main - a solo PvE player what interaction I have had with the in-game community so far has been very positive.

However, I am afraid I agree with Kragorn. There is nothing you could do that would entice me to play PvP. My reasons my differ slightly though. I used to PvP in competitive leagues in FPS (1st Person Shooter) games, I was never better than just above average, and that genuinely didn't bother me - I did it because I enjoyed it; the guys I played with didn't do it to be top of the leagues, they also did it to have fun, we'd be on TS and often we'd be drinking while playing - it was nothing more than a way to let off steam after a week's work.

Then we all kind of grew tired of FPS and took a look at MMORPGs, the first game we tried was SRO (SIlk Road Online) and it had a very cleverly worked out 3 way PvP system. For a while it was fun, but it was never as fun as the FPS games, and so we explored PvE. By the time SRO was swamped with botters we had decided to move on to WOW and it was there that I saw the two things that have totally put me off MMORPG PvP.

1) The very toxic nature of the PvP community; now, I'm not saying all are like that, I know they are not, 95% of PvPers are good guys and gals, but the 5% that aren't are so toxic and vocal as to mask that, and most MMORPG PvP communities are so starved of numbers they won't do what they really need to do to make PvP appeal to more players - kick out the 5%. Don't team with them, if they are on a team together refuse to play against them, don't give them game-time at all. Until either a PvP community and the game company combined are fully prepared to have a zero tolerance approach to these type of players then the majority of people who currently stay away from PvP will continue to stay away. Most people play games like this for fun, the kind of griefing that all too often comes with PvP is just not fun.

Have you tried the PVP in ESO yet? This is my first MMO. Back when I started, I only participated in PVE and took my time doing the quests, exploring the world, etc.

However, after joining PVP the first time, I found it to be quite unlike any other game I ever played before, and the environment of Cyrodiil has a kind of open world sandbox feel that was a lot more fun than the PVE areas.

After a while, PVP became the entire game for me. At this point, I only do the bare minimum PVE stuff to remain competitive in PVP and get back to Cyrodiil as quickly as possible.

As for toxic and vocal players in PVP, can you elaborate on what kind of behavior is causing these issues for you in ESO? Are you referring to people from your own alliance saying dumb stuff in zone chat? You can always add them to your ignore list.

Otherwise, if you haven't visited Cyrodiil yet or want to try it, feel free to contact me in-game (same username), I'd be happy to help if I can.

Streega · March 2015

Caroloces wrote: »

You know what would be awesome? Some quests in the regular alliance zones in which you were asked to venture into Cyrodil to achieve some task or collect some items.[...]

I've already proposed something like this: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1640832/#Comment_1640832

But it's rather a plea to ZOS, not PvP or PvE'ers

madnesslurksb16_ESO · March 2015

As an aside, I think the most fun I ever had PVPing was on the beta stress test weekend, where everyone and their mother logged in, was roughly the same level, and had roughly the same abilities. But it was great to see, and really highlighted the interesting skills and spell animations in ESO, and what the game could look like.

Sure some has more experience, some had less- some used better skills or better skill combinations, but the disparity between 'haves' and 'have nots' was pretty non-existent.

This, this was the most fun I've had in PVP. If something like this could be replicated to any amount, I would PVP regularly. I doubt it would ever happen though.

Ah well, back to feeding my horse.

RealRobD · March 2015

I love pvp, but despise Cyrodiil, mostly due to it's size which is overwhelming when it takes so d*** long to get anywhere.

I would be absolutely out of my mind with excitement if we got some small scale pvp battlegrounds of sorts (absolutely no arena garbage).

Gandrhulf_Harbard · March 2015

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Have you tried the PVP in ESO yet? This is my first MMO. Back when I started, I only participated in PVE and took my time doing the quests, exploring the world, etc.

However, after joining PVP the first time, I found it to be quite unlike any other game I ever played before, and the environment of Cyrodiil has a kind of open world sandbox feel that was a lot more fun than the PVE areas.

After a while, PVP became the entire game for me. At this point, I only do the bare minimum PVE stuff to remain competitive in PVP and get back to Cyrodiil as quickly as possible.

As for toxic and vocal players in PVP, can you elaborate on what kind of behavior is causing these issues for you in ESO? Are you referring to people from your own alliance saying dumb stuff in zone chat? You can always add them to your ignore list.

Otherwise, if you haven't visited Cyrodiil yet or want to try it, feel free to contact me in-game (same username), I'd be happy to help if I can.

I haven't been in Cyrodil yet.

I have played just about every major MMORPG since about 2 months before Burning Crusade for WOW, I am yet to find one where the "toxic minority" hasn't made PvP a chore.

Thanks for the offer, but I don't honestly see me heading there any time soon; there's still so much PvE stuff for me to discover.

All The Best

runagate · March 2015

Just to clear something up brought up earlier in the thread, the signal to an enemy alliance player that you *don't * want to fight is to simply sheath your weapon, back up, and don't defend yourself.

Works about 75% of the time. Sometimes you want to talk to them for whatever reason.

Far more importantly, sometimes you're far too evenly matched and if you both have something more important to do, such as you happen to both be leading groups and have been separated from whatever you're supposed to actually be doing, it's in neither person's interest to fight for over 10 minutes just to see if it'll ever, ever end. I've had quite a few fights like that which were very fun, but they do have to end sometime - even if it's just to die so you can get on with whatever you were trying to accomplish.

Toophat82 · May 2017

Not thrashing PvP but from my experience every mmorpg ive played PvP never fairs as well in comparison to PvE. Also unless they do like GW2 did and seperate PvP from PvE balancing will be a neverending cycle of nerfs back and forth trying to make both sides happy and further hurt PvP because even then PvE is always the main draw when it comes to mmorpgs because at the end of the day mmo or not its still an RPG and like with any RPG majority of people who play RPGs it isn't for PvP its for the solo/PvE content.

I read an article while back that talked about a survey and study done by the publishers of these mmorpgs to find out and determine which people played more and preferred and it showed that its something like roughly 67% pve to 33% pvp ratio so bottomline when it comes to mmorpgs unless its a pvp only mmorpg pve is always the core and main draw for it and pvp is always secondary just like with any normal RPG and you can bet that effects their decision making.

Drakkdjinn · May 2017

PvP is the only endgame in ESO, and its the only thing that will attract people to this game long after ZoS stops putting out half-assed 'content' to sap those PvE dollars. In the meantime PvP'ers, ignore the salty PvE baddies who hate PvP because they suck it at it or think PvE is imbalanced b/c of PvP balance instead of the Champion Point training wheels system (spoiler alert, ZoS doesn't lift a finger to improve PvP these days, and trueflame/haderus is hardly PvP) - disregard these things, and acquire salt and currency in the buggy fields of Cyrodil. Profit.

Have fun farming fighting the same unchallenging AI over and over for few-and-far-between marginal gear upgrades my PvE brethren. Let us PvP'ers know when you're ready to try something more difficult and rewarding, we'd love to have you in no-CP campaigns -- and if not, no forum "I'm leaving ESO b/c waah PvP" post will be necessary. /bye

Docmandu · May 2017

PvP can be pretty toxic.. and as with many things it's usually a small minority that ruins the fun for the larger mass. Luckily systems like ESO AvA, ie. consensual PvP limit the amount of opportunities to be a total jerk... but it doesn't eliminate it. (ie. the 5 minute fame streamers that make 1-shot builds, the AoE destro ball "guild" groups, the 5 "buddies" waiting in stealth to attack a solo, ...)

Basically the same happens in PvE.. small minority being jerks and intentionally trying to harass / spoil fun for others, or being very egoistic and only caring about "ME"... in PvE that usually means stealing a resource in front of your face, grabbing your loot (not in ESO), adding in a kills (not in ESO), killing the delve boss instead of waiting 2 seconds until everybody is there, etc etc.

Usually not much you can do about it. Unfortunate, but there just are too many bored people on the planet that get joy out of spoiling somebody else's day.

That said.. Cyrodiil / AvA / RvR / ... is worth checking out if you've never tried it in ESO.. as it is very different to the usual timed battleground / arena style you have in most other MMOs. I'd say more accessible.

Integral1900 · May 2017

Attention ZOS moderator types, we need some holy water, some necromancer is resurrecting a load of dead cobblers that should have stayed in its tomb

Khenarthi · May 2017

This last month I've been taking all my (12! and all at max CP) characters to Cyrodiil to do the town quests - unlocking Tamriel Hero - and hunting for skyshards/lorebooks. In PvE I am almost exclusively a quester.

I can't say that the environment of the PvP servers (Haderus and Trueflame, PC EU) left any sort of good impression either from the enemy faction or my own. Gankers caused me 20+ minutes rides back to where I was, zone chat is unfriendly or silent at best.

The best interactions I got were from other PvErs that were there clearly also doing quests and clearing delves and dolmens - players with Alliance rank 2 to 5 that even if they were on an enemy faction, focused on killing mobs/delve bosses together without killing each other.

On top of my frustration-inducing list, in trying to quest in Vlastarus/Cropsford. Unless my faction owns the place, to access the quest givers I must kill the Honor Guards (usually no problem there, but the templar bubbles are annoying) which alerts all the map that there's a fight going on for that town even if I have no intention of sitting on that flag and make myself a target - cue heroic enemy PvPers coming in to protect their territory. Since I am not geared for PvP, have PvP morphs, or even know how to counter PvP moves, I will die and be facing a long ride back and hoping for the best... again. After this, joining the fight for my Alliance does to appeal, it just makes me want to go back "home" to the rest of Tamriel. The best towns to quest in are Cheydinhall (enemy players are usually lowbie reds, they don't attack me and I don't attack them, everything gets done quickly) and Chorrol/Weynon (not a living soul in sight, possibly because the quests are so dull - ride ride ride and then ride some more).

If I saw any groups forming in zone chat offering to explain PvP things to newcomers I would join and learn, but sadly all I saw was rants at zergs, rants at someone elses strategy, and a ton of LFG.

EDIT: only realised no this thread was necro'ed. My apologies.

idk · May 2017

As integral pointed out, this is a dead thread. It died over 2 years ago. Best to start a fresh thread.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · May 2017

Wow, I wrote this two years ago and someone dug it up. It's actually aged pretty well considering. I still think that if we got more community involvement in PvP, we could get some of the longstanding issues fixed.

This post was written in a time where ZOS had completely neglected PvP, no updates and people were consistently dealing with single digit FPS. A huge portion of our PvP community left during that time.

In the last two years, it seems that instead of PvP getting ignored completely we have had a shift were drastic balance changes are made that are designed to benefit PvP and PvE but end up helping neither.

So I am grateful ZOS finally started paying attention to PvP but I still don't think we are where we need to go. When battlegrounds get released, we will see if cyrodiil or Imperial City gets any improvements or if they get neglected again.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Wow, I wrote this two years ago and someone dug it up. It's actually aged pretty well considering. I still think that if we got more community involvement in PvP, we could get some of the longstanding issues fixed.

This post was written in a time where ZOS had completely neglected PvP, no updates and people were consistently dealing with single digit FPS. A huge portion of our PvP community left during that time.

In the last two years, it seems that instead of PvP getting ignored completely we have had a shift were drastic balance changes are made that are designed to benefit PvP and PvE but end up helping neither.

So I am grateful ZOS finally started paying attention to PvP but I still don't think we are where we need to go. When battlegrounds get released, we will see if cyrodiil or Imperial City gets any improvements or if they get neglected again.

Bet you didn't think pvp would get worse over 2 years when you wrote this did you?

GreenhaloX · May 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

An appeal to PvE'ers.
This thread may not seem to be about you but it is. We want you to PvP and experience the same thrills and excitement we do when we play it. What could the PvP community (not ZOS) do for you that would convince you to play more or give cyrodill another try? No, we won't stop using that one ability that kills you, we like that skill - it works well, as you have seen on your kill logs. But we could teach you how to not die from it so much. Or invite you to one of our teamspeak groups and show you the ropes. A lot has changed in Cyrodill in 1.6. What would it take for you to give it another try?

Good effort on your part; however no thank you and no sell here. Tried PvP several times with several different toons, and I find no thrill or excitement, but chaotic, non-tactic repetitive killing and being killed. You kill a player(s), then you get swarmed or get killed with just two to three hits and often say, wtf! As least with PvE contents, you can decide how to engage and kill a world boss or any other things without being killed, even when soloing. You can fish in tranquility or roam around without fretting if you will be attacked by other players. You know how damage you can inflict or how much the enemies in PvE can in return. There is nothing hidden or something amidst in PvE, and anything can be killed in PvE; whereas in PvP, there are some dudes that are just questionable. Heck, I went in to PvP just to get Vigor, but soon realized it is just useless for certain toons. So, there is really no need for this PvEer to venture into PvP anymore. However, keep at it. Just like any other sale's pitch, there are those who will bite and some will not.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

An appeal to PvE'ers.
This thread may not seem to be about you but it is. We want you to PvP and experience the same thrills and excitement we do when we play it. What could the PvP community (not ZOS) do for you that would convince you to play more or give cyrodill another try? No, we won't stop using that one ability that kills you, we like that skill - it works well, as you have seen on your kill logs. But we could teach you how to not die from it so much. Or invite you to one of our teamspeak groups and show you the ropes. A lot has changed in Cyrodill in 1.6. What would it take for you to give it another try?

Good effort on your part; however no thank you and no sell here. Tried PvP several times with several different toons, and I find no thrill or excitement, but chaotic, non-tactic repetitive killing and being killed. You kill a player(s), then you get swarmed or get killed with just two to three hits and often say, wtf! As least with PvE contents, you can decide how to engage and kill a world boss or any other things without being killed, even when soloing. You can fish in tranquility or roam around without fretting if you will be attacked by other players. You know how damage you can inflict or how much the enemies in PvE can in return. There is nothing hidden or something amidst in PvE, and anything can be killed in PvE; whereas in PvP, there are some dudes that are just questionable. Heck, I went in to PvP just to get Vigor, but soon realized it is just useless for certain toons. So, there is really no need for this PvEer to venture into PvP anymore. However, keep at it. Just like any other sale's pitch, there are those who will bite and some will not.

E.g. Pve is all scripted with no risk as it's basically just the same fights over and over.

I think that is what puts off most pve players, pve is more or less very easy and you'll barely die.

You die in pvp all the time and for people who play pve all the time, dying isn't a thing they are used too.

Plus you can't exactly predict other players much, every fight is different so you won't know what happens and the only thing you can do is react.

ZOS_Ragnar · May 2017

We have closed this thread as the original content is over 2 years old and our game has undergone many changes since then. This thread has recently resurfaced but may contain information that is no longer accurate. If you feel the need to discuss this topic as it pertains to our game in its current form feel free to create a new thread on this topic rather than reviving one form several years ago.