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End-game, levels and experience
daemonios
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So here we are. The Champion System has come in, and Veteran levels are on their way out (apparently). Still, it seems the same people keep complaining that they're not getting enough experience from end-game content, PvP, grinding or whatever.
The problem, I think, is the very design of the game. I had no beef with VR levels. It took its time, but I made it to VR14 with my main and to VR1-5 with several alts. However, some people simply can't stand not being absolutely maxed out in whatever way possible. If it takes long to reach VR14 (and it does) they complain. If it takes long to get 3600 Champion Points (and oh, boy, it sure does) they complain. This will always be the case as long as there's an actual or perceived vertical progression system (I say perceived because I don't regard the Champion System as an actual vertical progression, but many people won't rest until they're sitting on top of their 3600 Champion Points).
In my opinion, the whole focus of end-game should shift away from levels and experience and more into playing the actual content. And it could be done in a number of ways.
First off, content updates have been very few and of little significance. A couple of zones (lower and upper Craglorn) and a half dozen instances and that's it. PvP was all but forgotten in this department (where is the Imperial City, pray tell?). The Justice System, while fun for me, doesn't appeal to everyone, is kind of incipient and doesn't reward much aside from money and achievements. But new content takes a long time to develop, and some is planned for the near (?) future. I'm not going to comment on this area any further, other than to say that it's urgently needed.
Secondly, the rewards from end-game content (veteran dungeons, trials and PvP) were utterly destroyed with the 1.6 and 2.0.1 updates. At the same time, the crafting professions are totally botched, given the underwhelming bonuses from 8- and 9-trait sets. It's almost pointless at this time to invest in researches above 5 or 6 traits.
What I'd like to see is truly useful crafted gear requiring 9 traits researched and rare drops from end-game content. By introducing this, ZOS would:
- Keep true to their promise that crafted gear would be more powerful than dropped gear;
- Motivate players to run end-game content to farm the drops for using or selling to others;
- Encourage actual development of crafting skills, instead of players stopping half-way because there's no incentive to research more traits;
- Solve the problems with much of the dropped gear having locked or random traits, often undesirable or less than optimum; and
- Allow people who don't have the time or skill to run end-game content to buy the best gear from other players (the price would of course depend on the amount of players able to craft the equipment and the rarity of the drops required).
The problem, I think, is the very design of the game. I had no beef with VR levels. It took its time, but I made it to VR14 with my main and to VR1-5 with several alts. However, some people simply can't stand not being absolutely maxed out in whatever way possible. If it takes long to reach VR14 (and it does) they complain. If it takes long to get 3600 Champion Points (and oh, boy, it sure does) they complain. This will always be the case as long as there's an actual or perceived vertical progression system (I say perceived because I don't regard the Champion System as an actual vertical progression, but many people won't rest until they're sitting on top of their 3600 Champion Points).
In my opinion, the whole focus of end-game should shift away from levels and experience and more into playing the actual content. And it could be done in a number of ways.
First off, content updates have been very few and of little significance. A couple of zones (lower and upper Craglorn) and a half dozen instances and that's it. PvP was all but forgotten in this department (where is the Imperial City, pray tell?). The Justice System, while fun for me, doesn't appeal to everyone, is kind of incipient and doesn't reward much aside from money and achievements. But new content takes a long time to develop, and some is planned for the near (?) future. I'm not going to comment on this area any further, other than to say that it's urgently needed.
Secondly, the rewards from end-game content (veteran dungeons, trials and PvP) were utterly destroyed with the 1.6 and 2.0.1 updates. At the same time, the crafting professions are totally botched, given the underwhelming bonuses from 8- and 9-trait sets. It's almost pointless at this time to invest in researches above 5 or 6 traits.
What I'd like to see is truly useful crafted gear requiring 9 traits researched and rare drops from end-game content. By introducing this, ZOS would:
- Keep true to their promise that crafted gear would be more powerful than dropped gear;
- Motivate players to run end-game content to farm the drops for using or selling to others;
- Encourage actual development of crafting skills, instead of players stopping half-way because there's no incentive to research more traits;
- Solve the problems with much of the dropped gear having locked or random traits, often undesirable or less than optimum; and
- Allow people who don't have the time or skill to run end-game content to buy the best gear from other players (the price would of course depend on the amount of players able to craft the equipment and the rarity of the drops required).
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I'm just here to comment on one thing you wrote
"- Allow people who don't have the time or skill to run end-game content to buy the best gear from other players (the price would of course depend on the amount of players able to craft the equipment and the rarity of the drops required)."
Well. No.
Even if there IS a power creep in ESO, "thanks" to scaling and sometimes a bit too much RNG, skill is still something the game requires ( even if HOW much is debatable).
If you reward those who don't give a crap at being better or want to invest the time on PLAYING the game, whats the point then?
Let merit be rewarded.2 -
Avindra✭✭
The problem, I think, is the very design of the game. I had no beef with VR levels. It took its time, but I made it to VR14 with my main and to VR1-5 with several alts. .
Was this pre-Craglorn nerf ?
I've been questing and only ended up as a vet4 after finishing all of Cadwell's Quests.
Vet leveling is soooo slow
I wish I took advantage of Craglorn like everyone else. 0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
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The problem, I think, is the very design of the game. I had no beef with VR levels. It took its time, but I made it to VR14 with my main and to VR1-5 with several alts. .
Was this pre-Craglorn nerf ?
I've been questing and only ended up as a vet4 after finishing all of Cadwell's Quests.
Vet leveling is soooo slow I wish I took advantage of Craglorn like everyone else.
Some of the "nerfs" weren't actually that. They were fixes to delve bosses that people would farm for hours on end. I got to VR10 or 11 by completing every quest in every zone (with some PvP in the middle), then up to 14 by doing all Craglorn quests, some vet dungeons, some more PvP... I did about 30 minutes farming Hircine's Haunt when that was a thing, almost died of boredom and have had a loathing of grinding ever since. But what I propose is to do away with more levelling. VR will be out of the game soon enough. Just give us something else to do other than grind CP now.
[EDIT] By the way, it took me MONTHS to finish Craglorn quests because 90% of people there were grinding and the other 10% were doing trials. I did solo most delves, but the quests were just too hard without at least 2-3 people. I'm happy to see many more players now asking for party groups for questing in Craglorn.Edited by daemonios on March 19, 2015 10:46AM0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dual.sphereeb17_ESO wrote: »I'm just here to comment on one thing you wrote
"- Allow people who don't have the time or skill to run end-game content to buy the best gear from other players (the price would of course depend on the amount of players able to craft the equipment and the rarity of the drops required)."
Well. No.
Even if there IS a power creep in ESO, "thanks" to scaling and sometimes a bit too much RNG, skill is still something the game requires ( even if HOW much is debatable).
If you reward those who don't give a crap at being better or want to invest the time on PLAYING the game, whats the point then?
Let merit be rewarded.
Well, they WOULD have to find a way to get the gold to purchase that gear... I understand your point, but honestly I'd like to see the game not leave out players who don't have as much time or skill. Play as you like, and all that. Skilled players would still have achievements and leaderboards for finishing the hardest content.
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Avindra✭✭I am glad that they are increasing the XP gains in PVP hopefully that makes it a valid choice to level a character at a reasonable pace.
Personally I hate questing, absolutely loathe it but I love playing MMOs because I get to play with other players dungeon grinding and PVP. I just hope that ZOS makes the other options viable and not take 10 years to get to vet14 like the CP.0 -
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Well, they WOULD have to find a way to get the gold to purchase that gear... I understand your point, but honestly I'd like to see the game not leave out players who don't have as much time or skill. Play as you like, and all that. Skilled players would still have achievements and leaderboards for finishing the hardest content.
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Back in the day, and I'll commit post suicide by saying this, in Vanilla WoW, people didn't had achievs, but they had TIER armour and epic gear. Those meant merit, accomplishment.
I think ESO still has that, and we should try to preserve as much as possible. Crafted gear is already on par with drops if not better in some cases. I'm just saying that those who play and do their best at the game should have some reward other than an achievement. something more.
But then again, what do I know? Im from the times of UO, EQ and AO. Where you had to live in the damn games to actually accomplish anything0