When is the enforcer system coming?

Delith · March 2015

Returning to the game and things look much improved, but I have to wonder, when are we getting the PvP portion of the Justice system? It feels like a waste to come back and play when I know this is on the horizon somewhere, and I don't really want to put much time in until the best part of the game has been created.

Does anyone know a time frame?

Valymer · March 2015

I read a post from someone saying that they ran into some sort of issues with it and not to expect it anytime soon, but it wasn't a Zenimax employee so take it for what you will.

At the very earliest I'd say Fall/Winter 2015

Enodoc · March 2015

I don't think any timeframe has been announced. Prior to TU, it was speculated that it would be coming in Update 7 along with Imperial City as a major PvP update, but I guess all that theorising is thrown out the window now.
The only thing we know for sure, is that if it is added, it will be free (emphasis on if), but the devs do want to add it and will try to make it work.

jircris11 · March 2015

main issue with the pvp portion i

Delith wrote: »

Returning to the game and things look much improved, but I have to wonder, when are we getting the PvP portion of the Justice system? It feels like a waste to come back and play when I know this is on the horizon somewhere, and I don't really want to put much time in until the best part of the game has been created.

Does anyone know a time frame?

s the level restrictions, cant have a v14 killing lvl 4s now can we. And frankly any form of open world pvp would not be fun on eso, i have seen many games suffer due to morons on there killing low levels. Perhaps some sort of way to arrest said player aka a skill set that allows the guards to catch them or allows us to catch them.

squidgod2000b14_ESO · March 2015

Assuming that it's actually happening and ready/nearly ready for testing, it would be released in October at the earliest.

There will be no more content patches until a few months after the console release.

Delith · March 2015

Ugh. When did the best feature for ESO become a "maybe?" And why are there people complaining about griefing? Don't behave like a criminal, and enforcers won't bother you. Why is that difficult?

Ourorboros · March 2015

Delith wrote: »

Ugh. When did the best feature for ESO become a "maybe?" And why are there people complaining about griefing? Don't behave like a criminal, and enforcers won't bother you. Why is that difficult?

'Criminal behavior' is part of the lore of Elder Scrolls. Thieves Guild. Dark Brotherhood. Those ring any bells? I'm not convinced the game needs players with 'cop mentality' to police me when I steal. I can see self-righteous a-holes saying the same as the quote above to justify camping around refuge doors, lockboxes, locked doors, etc. Believe me, the guards already make it tricky to be a criminal, without adding grief from self-appointed deputies. Cyrodil is there if you want PVP. And just to repeat, the current system already mimics the kind of game play that has always been a part of ELder Scrolls. IF they ever add a PVP aspect to Justice System, it should be OPTIONAL.

RainfeatherUK · March 2015

I dont know if you watch much of the background resources created for ESO by the community but, the recent ToF broadcast by Deltia/Elloa/Sigtric covered this pretty well. -

At its heart the implementation of the justice system has made the game more like a real ES title. Many people recognise the mechanics involved and it adds to immersion (Giving a way to later tie in the Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood).

So with that in mind, appreciate that different people play this game. Single player TES fans AND MMO players.

They are very different and its very hard to keep both of them happy because of it.

Many really love the justice system but they dont want to be griefed while roleplaying their thief in town. The player guards (immortal currently) are challenging enough for them as career thieves and the last thing they want is human players (vastly superior in hunting I hope we will agree) chasing them down and making this element of the game impossible for them to enjoy.

On the flip, as a PvPer myself - I would like to be a guard rather than a thief, and also - to have more 'good guilds' in game, that interact more with the wider game in the way that the justice (theft) component does.

I share Deltia's stance that simply implementing player justice without careful planing and observation of the player base (and how it treats justice as time goes on) could do more harm than good.

I value our whole playerbase, not just myself.

Currently ZoS have taken the line of observing; seeing what happens and how the system develops. This is good. It shows they care about getting it right and want to make sure everyone has a fair shot at enjoying themselves by playing as close to they want as possible.

I say to finish then; The system is a baby. Its new. Give them time.

lordspyder · March 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Delith wrote: »

Ugh. When did the best feature for ESO become a "maybe?" And why are there people complaining about griefing? Don't behave like a criminal, and enforcers won't bother you. Why is that difficult?

'Criminal behavior' is part of the lore of Elder Scrolls. Thieves Guild. Dark Brotherhood. Those ring any bells? I'm not convinced the game needs players with 'cop mentality' to police me when I steal. I can see self-righteous a-holes saying the same as the quote above to justify camping around refuge doors, lockboxes, locked doors, etc. Believe me, the guards already make it tricky to be a criminal, without adding grief from self-appointed deputies. Cyrodil is there if you want PVP. And just to repeat, the current system already mimics the kind of game play that has always been a part of ELder Scrolls. IF they ever add a PVP aspect to Justice System, it should be OPTIONAL.

This, All I can picture, (and with good reason because if you give a person any way to be a *** on the internet 9 out of 10 of them will abuse it) is ever lock box and door camped by some v14 who is waiting to gank any thief thus ruining it for low levels and completely taking thievery out of ESO.

"Oh ESO has a justice system!"

"Don't even bother, if you try you'll get ganked by a high level enforcer before you can even loot the item"

Doesn't sound like fun to me.

GreySix · March 2015

Really looking forward to brutally cutting down criminal scum in the streets.

Slurg · March 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Delith wrote: »

Ugh. When did the best feature for ESO become a "maybe?" And why are there people complaining about griefing? Don't behave like a criminal, and enforcers won't bother you. Why is that difficult?

'Criminal behavior' is part of the lore of Elder Scrolls. Thieves Guild. Dark Brotherhood. Those ring any bells? I'm not convinced the game needs players with 'cop mentality' to police me when I steal. I can see self-righteous a-holes saying the same as the quote above to justify camping around refuge doors, lockboxes, locked doors, etc. Believe me, the guards already make it tricky to be a criminal, without adding grief from self-appointed deputies. Cyrodil is there if you want PVP. And just to repeat, the current system already mimics the kind of game play that has always been a part of ELder Scrolls. IF they ever add a PVP aspect to Justice System, it should be OPTIONAL.

I agree that the PVP aspect if added should be completely optional. Because you're right, some people absolutely will camp out in the places you describe to get the "easy pickings". I would hope those who want to be Enforcers would want more of a challenge but there are always people who want to get the most in the shortest amount of time so they can brag about it to everyone else.

Hopefully ZOS will consider all of the factors and take their sweet time implementing this feature (if they ever do). I would like to see rewards come eventually for people who want to stay on the right side of the law - right now, only crime pays - but they need to be really careful with this to avoid alienating large portions of the player base.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · March 2015

jircris11 wrote: »

main issue with the pvp portion i

Delith wrote: »

Returning to the game and things look much improved, but I have to wonder, when are we getting the PvP portion of the Justice system? It feels like a waste to come back and play when I know this is on the horizon somewhere, and I don't really want to put much time in until the best part of the game has been created.

Does anyone know a time frame?

s the level restrictions, cant have a v14 killing lvl 4s now can we. And frankly any form of open world pvp would not be fun on eso, i have seen many games suffer due to morons on there killing low levels. Perhaps some sort of way to arrest said player aka a skill set that allows the guards to catch them or allows us to catch them.

a. introduce downscaling of players to the zone their in so everybody is about the same
b. u can only kill people if they're outlaws with a big bounty, so even at this stage in the game, a v14 could'nt go rampant & kill all lvl4s, only outlaws so if u have a bounty, watch your back

AngryNord · March 2015

At the same time as spellmaking, and the removal of Veteran ranks - i.e. never

Divinius · March 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

At the same time as spellmaking, and the removal of Veteran ranks - i.e. never

This.

It's probably best to assume that none of these things are ever going to happen, and that if that they do, it will be quite a very long time from now.

Bfish22090 · March 2015

I can't wait to camp strongboxes and the entrances to hideouts with my v14 DK
Defiantly going to be an enforcer

Ourorboros · March 2015

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I can't wait to camp strongboxes and the entrances to hideouts with my v14 DK
Defiantly going to be an enforcer

Perfect example of why any PVP aspect outside of Cyrodil needs to be optional.

GreySix · March 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I can't wait to camp strongboxes and the entrances to hideouts with my v14 DK
Defiantly going to be an enforcer

Perfect example of why any PVP aspect outside of Cyrodil needs to be optional.

Concur, so long as criminals don't murder NPCs or guards ... otherwise they'd option themselves right into the point of my daggers.

Frawr · March 2015

Not everyone wants to gank lowbies. The system simply needs to add other illegal activities including things like 'killing a player more than 5 levels lower' or whatever. This will force player guards to think twice If they themselves will become a target as a result of griefing. as long as the system allows for players to properly police it then it'll work. Griefers will be griefed and the karma will be in balance.

GreySix · March 2015

Can understand some of the concerns re. ganking, and I've some humble suggestions:

Enforcers have the ability to kill only players who've murdered NPCs or guards.

All other forms of theft, the enforcers can attack, but an option to yield and pay a fine pops up for the criminal. Of course, turn down that offer, and you're mincemeat.

Chuggernaut · March 2015

I would also like to know when the enforcer system is added will the godmode guards get converted to zone appropriate levels?

GreySix · March 2015

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I would also like to know when the enforcer system is added will the godmode guards get converted to zone appropriate levels?

I imagine so. The lack of an enforcer system is likely why we now see invulnerable city guard.

Otherwise, we'd see sickening psychopathic zerg-fests laying waste to city populations.

Rumba1 · March 2015

Picture this:

If you wish to be an enforcer you go to the head office of the zone guards say Daggerfall in Glenumbra.
There you become deputized to apprehend criminals.

Thereafter whenever a criminal within 2 levels of you uses a wayshrine to enter territory, you get a notice:

"So-and-So, known murderer has entered Glenumbra at wayshrine such-and-such. You are authorized to apprehend this criminal and bring them to justice."

Rewards in gold would be similar to bounty level.

You would of course probably have multiple criminals in your area that you are authorized to apprehend.

Thus no thief would face too difficult an opponent and no deputy would face too difficult a thief/murderer.

no camping out at lockboxes because, the deputy is required to have authorization to apprehend.
camping out at thief hideouts would probably be not very productive, (because you still need to be within 2 levels and authorized) but you never know, plus it might add a little spice to the thief's game.

Gorthax · March 2015

GreySix wrote: »

Can understand some of the concerns re. ganking, and I've some humble suggestions:

Enforcers have the ability to kill only players who've murdered NPCs or guards.

All other forms of theft, the enforcers can attack, but an option to yield and pay a fine pops up for the criminal. Of course, turn down that offer, and you're mincemeat.

this all day! Before a enforcer can attack a level 5 thief, they are giving an option to pay a fee or flee JUST like the guards give you UNLESS you murdered or attacked a npc. If they pay the fee the enforcer gets credit and an return the items. Should you choose to flee.....well now the death you will experience is your own choice. This gives you the option to opt in or opt out. @ZOS_GinaBruno there you go, problem solved now please add the enforcer aspect ^_^

RhajaZola · March 2015

This can be easily controlled with a bounty system... if your seen it reports to a system that than puts in a bounty..

Even if a known thief was being followed the visibility and the bounty going up, will take time... this stops instant grief and makes a game of cat and mouse.

I am thinking a bit along the lines of SWG bounty system... but with ESO twist. Maybe a pet, that can pick up the scent of the criminal, possibly on the bounty a list of last (lets just say for fun this number) 3 way points the thief has been (timed way points perhaps like 5 minute gaps).

If it is controlled pvp it can be very exciting... even for rp types, you are rping a thief, often thieves have the law on their tails no?

Divinius · March 2015

The main problem is that the justice system as currently implemented almost forces players to become criminals. There are quests where you are required to break into a house to complete them, precious few areas that have the higher tier containers (chests, dressers, etc) that aren't owned, and too many ways to incur a bounty unintentionally, even with the "prevent attacking innocents" safety feature turned on.

Sure, it is technically possible to never commit a crime, but it is a pretty severe handicap to lead a "perfectly honest" life.

Without a major overhaul to how a lot of the system works, allowing PvP into the system will pretty much do nothing but give griefers a tool to make normal players' lives miserable.

If they never implement this aspect of the system, I'd be perfectly ok with that.

vovus69 · March 2015

Realistically, probably next year. I hope we will see at least one or two DLC and spellcrafting before enforcer part of the justice system.

Enodoc · March 2015

I can see how some things could work quite well, but there are some other things that still need to be thought about.

Enforcers wouldn't be able to kill just any old outlaw with a bounty. Only outlaws who are Kill on Sight would be killable. But for people who want no part in PvP, they should be able to opt out of (opt in to?) the PvP aspect and just be KOS to NPC guards. (For that reason, NPC guards would have to stay invincible. Not that I have any issue with that.)
Any player flagged as Enforcer would probably have to be downscaled to the level of the area to avoid being overpowered against criminals.
An issue that I haven't come up with much of a solution for yet: A VR 14 Outlaw ganking a Lvl 7 Enforcer. This I think is an issue harder to address than a VR 14 Enforcer ganking a Lvl 7 Outlaw.
- What they could do, somehow, is make sure everyone is scaled to an equal state for PvP, but I don't know how they would separate those scaled stats from the standard at-level PvE stats.
To avoid Enforcers camping entrances to Refuges - don't know. I initially thought they could put a Bouncer NPC there to keep them away, but that doesn't work if you consider the entrances that already come within the Guard NPCs' patrol routes.

Tandor · March 2015

Delith wrote: »

Ugh. When did the best feature for ESO become a "maybe?" And why are there people complaining about griefing? Don't behave like a criminal, and enforcers won't bother you. Why is that difficult?

Because non-PvPers want to participate in the Justice System too, especially when the Thieves Guild is launched. They want there to be consequences to their actions, but within the scope of the PvE part of the world in which they choose to play. If they wanted PvP they'd go to Cyrodil.

Bfish22090 · March 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I can't wait to camp strongboxes and the entrances to hideouts with my v14 DK
Defiantly going to be an enforcer

Perfect example of why any PVP aspect outside of Cyrodil needs to be optional.

Ha! Optional? No way!
Maybe you shouldn't steal things or do anything thievery related and you won't face the wrath of my talons and flame lash

Divinius · March 2015

You know what? I changed my mind.

I think they should eventually implement the system, and make it so that people can become law enforcers.

...but only if they have NEVER broken the law. And if they ever do break it, they permanently lose their enforcer status, and can never get it again on that character.

That should pretty much guarantee that there will be precious few people that will be able to become (and maintain their status as) enforcers, and the few that are will be horribly inconvenienced by that restriction.

That would be fair.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Delith wrote: »

Ugh. When did the best feature for ESO become a "maybe?" And why are there people complaining about griefing? Don't behave like a criminal, and enforcers won't bother you. Why is that difficult?

'Criminal behavior' is part of the lore of Elder Scrolls. Thieves Guild. Dark Brotherhood. Those ring any bells? I'm not convinced the game needs players with 'cop mentality' to police me when I steal. I can see self-righteous a-holes saying the same as the quote above to justify camping around refuge doors, lockboxes, locked doors, etc. Believe me, the guards already make it tricky to be a criminal, without adding grief from self-appointed deputies. Cyrodil is there if you want PVP. And just to repeat, the current system already mimics the kind of game play that has always been a part of ELder Scrolls. IF they ever add a PVP aspect to Justice System, it should be OPTIONAL.

Wouldn't beating a player guard be more entertaining than a brainless guard that is impossible to kill? I personally feel there's room for more kinds of pvp in ESO than just Cyrodiil, including but not limited to Arena Combat, Duels, and Guards vs. Thieves (or Cops and Robbers). I say this as someone who has been Legerdemain 20 for almost a week, and has a bunch of alts with high levels in Legerdemain.