A plea to the PvP community (And PvE'ers too)…

Panda244 · March 2015

And all of this would be nice. But they need to fix the lag first.

On a serious note, well.. Actually.. Fixing the lag is serious.

A semi-serious note, you'll never get the hardcore PvP community to listen, some of the people are simply ***. There's no changing that, same with PvE, doesn't matter what side of the spectrum you're on people, it's never pretty. Cyrodiil is going to implode in the coming months if the technical issues aren't fixed first, and that's what ZOS needs to focus on. Everything said in this post is nice, but... Most of it will never happen outside of the few PvPers that aren't raging sociopaths. I for one, don't attack people in quest areas period, unless attacked first, if I'm just riding around Cyrodiil and want to do a dungeon the same rule applies, whether they be DC or EP, I won't attack unless attacked. Or if I'm actually fighting, not just running around like a clueless bored ape.

I could name at least a dozen people right off the top of my head that are complete and utter jack wagons and all they do is PvP, but it's no different for the hardcore elitist PvErs, this is just one of the things we learn to deal with when playing MMOs. Nothing can fix it, you just have to ignore it... The newer players will either suck it up and drive on, or quit. I can't speak much for the PvE side of things because I hardly ever do PvE because it's excruciatingly repetitively, boring as all the seven circles of hell combined into one MLP marathon of doom. Cyrodiil in my opinion is the only legitimate endgame as of right now, until that's changed I won't consider even doing a Trial anymore unless I really really need the gear. I dunno... Great post OP but good luck getting certain people to listen.

runagate · March 2015

I completely agree with everything Yolokin said, and everyone who knows me in-game knows I've been saying the exact same thing to all PvEers for many months.

I've taken huge amounts of time to take anything from groups or guilds to Cyrodiil to randomly met level 10 people newly arrived to Tamriel to Cyrodiil to show them around, explain the mechanics and the culture, and apologized for the fact that the socially toxic few push all of the reasonable people out of Cyrodiil, and explain elite tactics and the behind the scenes goings ons that most people never even suspect exist.

This is the best post I've ever seen about AvA.

I can't imagine why being ganked would be particularly bothersome (you need a fast horse to deal with Cyrodiil nowadays anyways, which is a big first hurdle to overcome that's not obvious to new players) but I've always, always said that gankers aren't real PvPers anyways. They enjoy that play style, let them have their fun, and otherwise ignore them. Just go around where they were on your return trip, or let your Alliances' gankers know where some people in need of a Revealing Flare and an ambush are awaiting.

Blade_07 · March 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

An appeal to PvE'ers.
This thread may not seem to be about you but it is. We want you to PvP and experience the same thrills and excitement we do when we play it. What could the PvP community (not ZOS) do for you that would convince you to play more or give cyrodill another try? No, we won't stop using that one ability that kills you, we like that skill - it works well, as you have seen on your kill logs. But we could teach you how to not die from it so much. Or invite you to one of our teamspeak groups and show you the ropes. A lot has changed in Cyrodill in 1.6. What would it take for you to give it another try?

Since this is clearly addressed to me: my answer is 'nothing' I'm afraid.

I have zero desire to fight other players, I have zero desire to have to deal with their often toxic behaviour (many of you enjoy 'ganking' and 'corpse camping' which of course is 'virtual bullying' when viewed sociologically), their 'smack' talk, their seriously over-competitive-to-the-point-of-sociopathic-tendencies view of life.

No, I'm not for a minute saying ALL PVPers are like this, but enough are to make it an area of the game I will not go to: which saddens me, there's a lot of good PVE content in Cyrodiil I'll never get to enjoy because I'm not prepared to suffer PVPers in order to do so.

I did PVP, years ago, for a couple of days and realised I'd rather not play on-line games at all if that was the only option.

I see nothing whatsoever appealing about PVP. I play RPGs for exploration, character progression and story telling, aspects which are entirely absent or at best irrelevant to PVP.

I wish PVP didn't exist in this game, I was really saddened when I learned a long time before launch it was going to be a part of the game. ESO is the poorer for it due to the incessant nerfing ZOS do with major negative effects on the PVE side trying (and failing) to appease the PVP QQ about OP this-build/that-build/the-other-build: Eric's justification for the Negate nerf was appallingly PVP-centric with no thought about it's seriously negative effects on PVE.

I could not even come close to saying it that good! I hate PvP my self for the same exact reasons as you!

Edit: I also would like to say to Yolokin_Swagonborn that I understand where he is coming from and I think what he had to say was well done. I really do hope that they do something much better for those that would rather PvP. Loosing any players in this game is not good for any of use.

Samadhi · March 2015

This thread has been a really interesting read for me, so my thanks go out to the OP for posting it. Can relate to a lot of the excuses that PvE players provide as they used to be my same excuses for not PvPing in MMORPGs.
Unfortunately, since that also means knowing from first-hand experience how many of the sentiments are rooted in perceptions that can only really be changed through broadened experience, the PvP community could accommodate PvE players in a variety of ways, but they are not very likely to help those new players break out of their shells anyway.
PvP requires a lot of sacrifice of ego in order to get started in; not a lot of people are comfortable with continually getting destroyed while they learn, and unfortunately losing is the best teacher.

Some players are just not going to be open to PvP in any meaningful way; that is something that PvP players need to accept, and should recognize because many do not enjoy PvE themselves.
The vitriol and discrimination from select individuals on either side of the issue also make bridging the gap quite difficult.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn really appreciate your effort in making this thread.
Some of the best advice from someone who straddles both communities but does not heed the most competitive and arrogant players from either side would be this: the best accommodations we are going to be able to make to the general player would be some solid guides and groups for newer PvPers. We cannot make hesitant players ready to learn, but we can at least streamline the learning process for them and be very open to even the most seemingly rudimentary questions when they finally take that leap.

Zorvan · March 2015

PvE is the majority shareholder in this game, as it is in 99.9% of all mmorpgs. Learn this, remember this, deal with this.

If you want a focus on PvP, then go find a game with a focus on PvP. EvE is a good one.

Or you can try one of those uber-successful full loot pvp games like Darkfall or Mortal Online. *snicker*

Anything that interferes with PvE is a no go. Anything that forces a PvE'er to PvP is a no go. Simple rules to follow.

Dru1076 · March 2015

My experience with PVP hasn't been that great tbh. I was looking forward to having a proper go once I levelled up, but to be honest I'm over the whole alliance war business. I'm an EP noob, and it seems everytime I look at the forum there is someone generally bashing EP as being a mob of exploiters. When I do see a positive thread it soon turns nasty.

For me, I enjoy the team up aspect of ESO. I could totally do without PVP, given the awful attitudes between alliances and the fact that it will be months before I have a competitive character. I'm rushing now to finish as much of the PVE content as I can before PVP comes to the justice system...because I think that will totally ruin this game for me.

All that said, I totally respect the nature of this thread. It is nice to know that there are some pleasant people in Cyrodil. A few more posts like this might force me to reconsider my perceptions the Alliance War. But for now, I totally agree with what @Kragorn said.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · March 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

And all of this would be nice. But they need to fix the lag first.

NOPE. They wont. I'm sure if we create 100 more threads saying "fix the lag" they will suddenly realize we are serious and immediately fix the lag.

This has to happen first. More people have to PvP. If everyone, PvP'ers and PvE'ers alike are always on this forum saying PvP is terrible, then we will never get the required investment needed to get actual fixes. No we shouldn't pretend it's not happening like some people on here, but we need to be more organized and less acerbic about it.

ZOS "needs" to fix a lot of things in PvP. They haven't. Why? I have heard a thousand excuses ranging from "give them more time" to "programming is hard." The speculation is pointless.

There is a reason. We just don't know it. If more people PvP'd, there would be less of a reason. Unfortunately a very small portion of people are actually responding to this thread with suggestions to my question. The rest are just grumbling, spouting negativity, or using this thread as a soapbox to express their distaste for a substantial part of the game. Thank you to those who see why this needs to happen and are bringing in Ideas.

To those of you who are just using this thread to express how much you dislike PvP: You are not contributing in any meaningful way to this conversation and are no different than the noncontributing PvP'ers you dislike.

Miszou · March 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

To those of you who are just using this thread to express how much you dislike PvP: You are not contributing in any meaningful way to this conversation and are no different than the noncontributing PvP'ers you dislike.

These issues are not unique to ESO, and no matter how good your intentions, you simply will not be able to convince people that getting the snot beat out of them repeatedly is a good idea. Sure, a handful of people will be turned on by it, but for the most part, people have better things to do than eat dirt.

I've had this same exact conversation in past MMO's, I've set up PvP guilds. I've recruited new players. I've kept alts at a low level on purpose, just to give the new guys something to hit. I've done everything humanly possible to get people to participate, because I truly believed it was the most fun part of the game, but at the end of the day, people just don't like to get roflstomped for teh lulz.

There is no "gentlemans agreement", or rules of conduct. None of it matters. The barriers to entry are prohibitively high for new players attempting to compete with people that have been playing since day 1. Heck, I've put all my mount points into storage, and it will take another 2 months to get the thing up to full speed - and then It'll run out of stamina before you, so "gg lol", right? And that's just my mount - Lawd knows what's "wrong" with my build, gear, weapon choice, skills, stats etc...

Zorvan · March 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

... for a substantial part of the game.

And there's your problem. The same problem PvP'ers always suffer from.

While PvP may be a substantial part of YOUR gameplay, PvP is not a substantial part of THE game.

Hope that clears that up.

Zhoyzu · March 2015

This thread is pointless. the PvE players are just to toxic to reason with.

A great effort poisoned by the crowd it attempted to appeal, the irony is rich.

Shadowcaster_9481 · March 2015

I recently tried to PVP for the first time since I started playing last spring. It was kinda fun, but what ultimately made me no longer log in to Cyrodiil was running back after getting killed. It just became so tedious. Being new to PVP, I really suck. I don't mind that, I expect it really since I am so used to fighting predictable tactics of PVE enemies. My problem was, running to a battle, get killed off my horse 3/4 of the way there..4-5 minutes to run back. Run back, charge into the fight, die in five seconds...4-5 minutes of running back again.

I died much less when switching to only ranged damage but then I felt cheesy firing two arrows then backing up.

Gaettusk · March 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

A special appeal to the "Hardcore" PvP guilds.
Fresh meat is coming and I know your fingers will be twitching on your bats button. In my personal experience, the very guilds people love to hate or accuse of exploiting/cheating/spamming/flying are some of the most helpful and generous players in zone. Do what you can to share the wealth.

I'll share some wealth with you: it's not a good idea to appeal to a certain crowd while also insulting them with quotes around an adjective used to describe them. If you don't think they're hardcore, then why bother even putting it as an adjective?

BlackEar · March 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I wish PVP didn't exist in this game, I was really saddened when I learned a long time before launch it was going to be a part of the game. ESO is the poorer for it due to the incessant nerfing ZOS do with major negative effects on the PVE side trying (and failing) to appease the PVP QQ about OP this-build/that-build/the-other-build: Eric's justification for the Negate nerf was appallingly PVP-centric with no thought about it's seriously negative effects on PVE.

I could respect your opinion right until the last part.

How ignorant of you to think like this. Simply because you do not find joy in an important aspect of this game does not mean it should be removed. PVP'ers have had it tough.

Furthermore, if you really enjoyed PvE then why do you not embrace the nerf as a challenge to find new strategies to defeat the bosses instead of simply standing together in a tight circle spamming ulties? What a dull bossfight AA and HRC was before 1.6.

I am not a PVP'er myself but I can respect OP's points but I cannot respect yours because it is clear it spawns from a self-centered mind.

Streega · March 2015

Zhoyzu wrote: »

This thread is pointless. the PvE players are just to toxic to reason with.

A great effort poisoned by the crowd it attempted to appeal, the irony is rich.

Who you call toxic, sir? All we say is: please don't kill newbs 20 lvl below you unless they don't attack you, and don't zerg/gank solo players trying to do quests and minding their own business. And what you say? "Oh c'mon, come to Cyro so we can smash you 'cos we bored". Really?

I don't mind getting killed by a great warrior who respect me and gives me fair chance, but being slauthered by blob of bullies with no honor is not what I call fun.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2015

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

andreasv wrote: »

I guess some kind of unwritten codex would help reducing the frustration somewhat. I had two occasions where a lower level enemy attacked me whilst picking up / returning a quest. After a minute of fighting and me grinding down his/her hp he/she realized that there's now winning and simply stood still. When I saw that the player gave up I simply sheathed my weapon and returned questing.

I know there are players who are happy to keep on attacking you for another minute just to get the kill, but those will not ruin my experience and make me not experience this part of the game.

On a side note: WTH has just happened to the forum?!!?

@andreasv , sheath your weapon.

Universal sign of "I'm not here to fight you."

Now disregard that, and I don't care what level you are, it ends with you on your back.

I thought the universal sign of "i'm not here to fight you" was hold block and jump up and down?

That gesture means "I want to fight you 1v1."

BlueViolet · March 2015

I normally dislike PvP with a passion. Simply because most of the time it's nothing but mindless killing. I actually really like PvP in ESO but I'm sadly not really very good at it when it comes to a 1v1, or usually in my case 1 v Gank Group.
I like it because there are objectives, keeps to take, resources to take, and it seems more than just running around in a sectioned off area only killing other players.

That said... I have to agree with the following quote.

Kragorn wrote: »

I have zero desire to have to deal with their often toxic behaviour (many of you enjoy 'ganking' and 'corpse camping' which of course is 'virtual bullying' when viewed sociologically), their 'smack' talk, their seriously over-competitive-to-the-point-of-sociopathic-tendencies view of life.

No, I'm not for a minute saying ALL PVPers are like this, but enough are to make it an area of the game I will not go to

I play on Blackwater, when I feel like PvP, on the DC side, and to be honest, I've not encountered the amount of smack talk and the put downs, and the "Zomg all you n00bs are useless" kind of bs that I have previously encountered on the Vet campaign I used to play on with my AD character. Some of the chat was ugly, unwelcoming, and downright nasty.
I'm not saying it might not happen, only that I've never seen it. Mind you, I tend to remain away from the Vet campaigns now.

Last time I played on BW though, I was riding to a keep ( forget which one ) with two other players, and I was about two horse lengths behind, not far. We passed a rock outcropping, and the other two guys rode past fine, but the moment I neared it, I was immediately ganked by a group of four people. The other two team mates of mine that rode past were in the level 40's with decent looking gear. I was level 17 and I guess it showed - I assume I just looked like an easy target for them.
That's the kind of thing that really puts me off. I accept that it's a tactic, but if you pick and choose just for the easiest kills, that's really quite lame.

The DC folks that have been there during the odd play times that I feel like joining Blackwater have been friendly enough but most people seem too busy to be able to take new people under their wing so to speak. I realise that just jumping into a campaign with absolutely no idea of what to do and expecting others to carry you along isn't the thing to do, and having spent most of my Beta time in PvP because it was such a lot of fun, I myself have a basic understanding of the mechanics, but my reflexes and such are slower than others. Others that are new might just not know what to do at all, and some of the awful attitudes just don't help new people feel like they can ask for help without receiving smartass comments or a torrent of abuse in return. I know I've not felt like I could.

Some of us don't play just to farm kills, try to prove we're better than others or see our names on the scoreboard. We just play because we enjoy assaulting keeps and capturing resources etc more than seeking out other players.

I would also like to see less of this -

Vahrokh wrote: »

4) Stop filling PvE concerns threads with NERF THIS NAO, BECAUSE IN PVP IT'S OP.

I see a lot of complaint threads about such and such and ability should be nerfed because its OP in PvP. It would be nice if folks remembered that whatever you're nerfing for PvP most of the time affects us PvE players too.

DLaren · March 2015

"Hey PVE gamers, we're running out of people to gank in Cyrodiil -- how might we convince you all to come be our punching bags for awhile?"

Thanks for the invite, OP, but I am going to have to respectfully decline.

Sublime · March 2015

Some suggestions regarding player behaviour:

For experienced PvPers:

Try to not be too punishing for new players, I know it can be hard, but it helps.
If somebody is complaining about a mechanic, explain them how they can counter it.
Make public groups that act apart from the zerg, this provides a grouping option for new players and keeps the lag at a minimum.

For new PvPers:

For new PvPers:

Use the ignore button (probably a lot).
Ask any question you have, 9/10 you should get a useful answer.
Don't get fustrated too easily ESO has a rather steep learning curve, so stay positive.
If you want to get better at playing solo, join a duelling guild (Legend on NA and Arena on EU). Both have some very friendly Players that like to help players get better. For an invite I suggest to either ask the respective guild leaders (@SypherPK for Legend or @MagickaDeHex for Arena) or simply ask in zonechat.

Apart from that, feel free to ask me any question about PvP, either here on the forum (@Sublime) or ingame on the EU megaserver (@Letherblaka, don't confuse with my forum name).

For those who are interested in PvP player behaviour in general, this video will be very interesting:
gdcvault.com/play/1017940/The-Science-Behind_shaping-Player

forthewin8888ub17_ESO · March 2015

I think there needs to be a place where people with VR14 experience aren't allowed, no matter what. If you have one character that is veteran rank you shouldn't be allowed to go to the newbie PvP campaign. If you want to test your new PvP build/new PvP character, go to a vet campaign. Don't test it on the non-veteran rank campaign. I know, it'll be harder. You'll die more initially. If you want to level your new character up, you need to grind in PvE like the rest of us. Veterans using the non vet server as a shortcut ensure that the PvP clique will stay just that- a clique. Do you really want to fight the same five people your entire time in ESO, or do you want some new competition? Who knows, the new people in the non veteran campaign might just get good enough to give you a run for your money. That will ultimately up the level of play for everybody, but only if you let it.

Aerieth · March 2015

Very nice post. Thank you!

I love PvP in MMORPGs. I really really do. But I'm not a huge fan of massive scale PvP. Cyrodiil can be fun, but it's unplayable in it's current state. With all the latency issues, disappearing enemy / friendly markers and health bars and other issues, I'm just not having fun.

In my opinion, this game needs small scale PvP with simple objectives like capture the flag, king of the hill etc. with even sides and shorter battles with a start and an end. Something you can go do even if you're playing alone. Just queue up for the event, get teleported to the area with other random players (or with friends if you queue up as a group), fight for the flag (or what ever objective), and win or lose within 15-40 minutes.
Wouldn't mind a 2v2 / 3v3 / 5v5 / 10v10 Team Death-match either.

PvP content where individual skill has more of an impact on the outcome of the "campaign" would make me get out of the dungeons and into the battlefield every day for years to come.

I'm not saying that Cyrodiil should be abandoned, not at all. I've had some great times in there, but you really need a rather big group of people to actually have an impact. Sure you can go siege keeps alone or with one friend, but that isn't really PvP to me. Fighting tens upon tens of enemies with a handful of people just feels more like a uphill struggle without a positive outcome in the horizon.

*Edit: Something I forgot to add: I can't speak for others in the ESO community, but PvE alone won't be keeping me in the game. I require good quality competitive PvP with solid objectives to have fun. As much fun as end-game PvE is, it will never give me that thrill and adrenaline rush I get in PvP. Beating your opponent by outsmarting, outplaying or with a lucky crit while at the brink of losing is the best "gaming high" I can get. That is why I love PvP.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

sylviermoone · March 2015

Definitely a PvE'r here. I've dabbled my feet into Cyrodil waters, and have had mixed experiences. Sometimes there is a lot of fun to be had, sneaking around and trying to get books and skyshards in enemy territory without getting whacked is a challenge; thus it is fun to me. Getting continuously ganked by folks 80x my level for no other reason than the lolz is not fun to me.

That said, the MOST FUN I've ever had in Cyrodil was when a group of guildies got together cross faction and set up some 1v1 duels. This allowed us the opportunity for mass trash talking and testing of builds and skills.

1v1 or 4v4 or 8v8 is fun for me. Running in a zerg from keep to keep is not fun. Were ESO to incorporate this sort of more structured PvP, I would definitely be into it. But I feel very "meh" about the AvAvA war PvP, as it is currently implemented.

This is a great thread, and there are some solid points by both groups. ESO as a game succeeds when both player groups are getting their needs met.

Septimus_Magna · March 2015

I think some issues are a bit oversimplified. First off all, I want every player to be nice to other players, especially new players who still need to learn the game mechanics. That having said, a lot of players enjoy the competitive aspect of the game (organised pvp battles, trails, vet dsa etc). In these situations there is and should be a level of expectation, frankly I dont like to play with people who are not committed to the benefit of the group. In many situations communication is the key and you cant do it without TS, players who dont have a mic can follow directions by listening only but its important to hear what the leader is saying to the group. My pvp guild, ***, already offers training for new members to the guild and will keep doing so.

Bottom line, be friendly to other players but dont be shy to give constructive criticism in a well mannered fashion.

Sallington · March 2015

Molag Bal

#coincidence? #illuminati #zospls #manyping #muchdiscourage

If the server performance discourages even hardcore PvPers, then there's a very slim chance to recruit new players who don't even care for it in the first place.

Paulhewhewria · March 2015

I 've read all of the discussion up till now.So let me add my cents I have done all most everything in the game I've been part of pvp guilds and pve guilds fought for every faction and done all PVE in cyrodiil I have done almost everything ingame. let me put it simply my feels currently on pvp.
1)This is the biggest problem for me PVP is just boring as holy hell half the time I've taken the me damn keeps over and over I need a new target or at least a different background or something to get me interested and not sleeping at my desk.
2)Rewards WTF I mean not enough gold and ap let alone xp simply put I can have aleast 10 times more of everything if I just *** around in PVE
3)i could give 2 *** lease about people's attitude or anything of this nature I mean we all need to grow up,but and plus ZOS gave an ignore button for a reason.

P.S. I've been around since beta and both pvped and pved hand in hand as I leveled my main(my first character) I started with I think goldbrand then went to wabba then azura then thornblade(where I am now) I've been all over the place.Currently due to me being bored to sleep I play pvp maybe 3 days a month to get rank 3 rewards then I quit and go back to pve.On the subjest of lag I've seen it,but I live through it.There is one thing I''ll never understand in all my PVP career WHY THE HELL DO EVERYONE FIGHT OVER ALESSIA"S DAMN BRIDGE?I mean come on go to the other one a little ways down every-time I get in a battle there and it don't matter what faction it's always a cluster.

Listen I love almost every part of this game and I try hard to do it all,but as for pvp something needs to change performance wise lag,crashes,que,exploiters(not being hunted by ZOS),population of servers(which comes down to pvp in my opinion not doing to good right now).
Honestly though I often wonder how the hell daily pvp players deal with all the BS lord knows I've tried.

Darklord_Tiberius · March 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

An appeal to PvE'ers.
This thread may not seem to be about you but it is. We want you to PvP and experience the same thrills and excitement we do when we play it. What could the PvP community (not ZOS) do for you that would convince you to play more or give cyrodill another try? No, we won't stop using that one ability that kills you, we like that skill - it works well, as you have seen on your kill logs. But we could teach you how to not die from it so much. Or invite you to one of our teamspeak groups and show you the ropes. A lot has changed in Cyrodill in 1.6. What would it take for you to give it another try?

Since this is clearly addressed to me: my answer is 'nothing' I'm afraid.

I have zero desire to fight other players, I have zero desire to have to deal with their often toxic behaviour (many of you enjoy 'ganking' and 'corpse camping' which of course is 'virtual bullying' when viewed sociologically), their 'smack' talk, their seriously over-competitive-to-the-point-of-sociopathic-tendencies view of life.

No, I'm not for a minute saying ALL PVPers are like this, but enough are to make it an area of the game I will not go to: which saddens me, there's a lot of good PVE content in Cyrodiil I'll never get to enjoy because I'm not prepared to suffer PVPers in order to do so.

I did PVP, years ago, for a couple of days and realised I'd rather not play on-line games at all if that was the only option.

I see nothing whatsoever appealing about PVP. I play RPGs for exploration, character progression and story telling, aspects which are entirely absent or at best irrelevant to PVP.

I wish PVP didn't exist in this game, I was really saddened when I learned a long time before launch it was going to be a part of the game. ESO is the poorer for it due to the incessant nerfing ZOS do with major negative effects on the PVE side trying (and failing) to appease the PVP QQ about OP this-build/that-build/the-other-build: Eric's justification for the Negate nerf was appallingly PVP-centric with no thought about it's seriously negative effects on PVE.

Its posts like this we need that LOL button back.

Darklord_Tiberius · March 2015

The thing you non-PvPers need to realize is not every PvP guild runs with an elitist mindset and acts as some of you have posted. Phoenix Rising is one of the best Pact NA PvP guilds, I wont say best because we are not that arrogant. NA Pact has plenty of solid good guilds and are equal in strength. The biggest difference is the community in which you play PvP with. Some of those Pact guilds are very arrogant and do troll 24/7, but some of us also play to have fun and ignore the trolls. You just need to find the type of community you want to PvP in and it will give you a completely different perspective on PvP...

The_Drexill · March 2015

Zorvan wrote: »

PvE is the majority shareholder in this game, as it is in 99.9% of all mmorpgs. Learn this, remember this, deal with this.

If you want a focus on PvP, then go find a game with a focus on PvP. EvE is a good one.

Or you can try one of those uber-successful full loot pvp games like Darkfall or Mortal Online. *snicker*

Anything that interferes with PvE is a no go. Anything that forces a PvE'er to PvP is a no go. Simple rules to follow.

Very far off base.

This game very clearly split right down the middle from conception. There's a reason Matt Frior was hired, and a reason they coined Available so quickly. This game was meant to be daoc 2.

I really don't understand the separation. I play both sides and just refer to it as the "game" instead of drawing a line. I think the Dev's could do alot to get people pvping, first is imperial city. Darkness falls was extremely important in early daoc.

I can teach any newb to pvp, as long as they're open to it. Truth be told it'll make you far better at pve too... if you're bad at one, you're bad at the other.

Really though if anyone wants to learn, @drexill will treat you right.

Vizier · March 2015

Xyain wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

An appeal to PvE'ers.

I have zero desire to fight other players, I have zero desire to have to deal with their often toxic behaviour (many of you enjoy 'ganking' and 'corpse camping' which of course is 'virtual bullying' when viewed sociologically), their 'smack' talk, their seriously over-competitive-to-the-point-of-sociopathic-tendencies view of life.

I agree with Kragorn.

PvP is usually about the same in every game out there. The players sick with their small groups of experienced friends and gank newbies. While its true that not ALL PvPers are that way, this group of people ruin it for the rest, because they have such a negative impact.

So until PvP no longer involves players, I will continue with my PvE....oh wait....

+1 for OP

I'm sorry, but I don't gank newbies. I gank EVERYONE. Here is the thing. We tend to Gank Strategically. We try to intercept enemy reinforcements and disrupt siege operations. If a new player is their we are going to put him down and welcome him OR her to Cyrodiil.

There is much more to gank than meets the eye. There is a great deal of preparation that goes into being in the right place at the right time with the dps to put someone away fast and get away if things go badly and they do go badly for everyone in a quick way if you're not vigilant and able to read the tides of war. (Oh, I kinda of like that on.)

Anyway. As the OP suggests we'd be more than happy to help new players learn to small group PvP. PM me or message me in game, Thornblade, North American server, DC Alliance. Small group PvP is so much fun IMO. Once you try it you'll never want to go back to the Zerg.

Majic · March 2015

Zhoyzu wrote: »

This thread is pointless. the PvE players are just to toxic to reason with.

A great effort poisoned by the crowd it attempted to appeal, the irony is rich.

Richer than you think. The very act of pointing fingers at straw men born of a false dichotomy is as toxic as it gets.

If it really bothers you, then don't do it.

Apophiss · March 2015

Kudos to the OP for taking off the gauntlets and attempting to get positive input from both sides.

People are all different, and in turn like different things.

From music, food, movies, gaming (obviously) and ice cream - tastes differ.

For some people, the taste of Liver & Onions cause their eyes to roll back in ecstasy, others taste bile at the mere waft of the dish. And the ones who dislike Liver & Onions, no matter how it is spiced, will still avoid it.

No matter how either side (PVP or PVE) is "decorated", there will be those who will not partake of the "other" side.