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A Message to ALL PvP Players (revised to save my hide)
Goldie
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@ZOS_PaulSage recently released comments concerning gameplay in Cyrodiil saying;
"Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.
Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking."
This is the description of ESO PvP is proudly displayed on the Official ESO Website;
"The Elder Scrolls Online features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?
The Elder Scrolls Online is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once."
The comments from Mr. Sage go against everything we were promised when we purchased the game, expecting the "massive PvP Battles". Now we cant even battle with 40 players onscreen at once without experiencing game killing lag and latency. All of us here represent the PvP community. We spend countless hours battling eachother in Cyrodiil because that is what drew us into the game in the first place. PvP Players are the most overlooked and always get a 'cold shoulder' when it comes to answers from the devs concerning gameplay issues.
If I bought a car, and the seller told me that the car would go 100MPH, but after I bought it I discovered it would only go 10MPH, I'd be pretty ticked off, as im sure anyone would. That is essentially what has happened here, @ZOS promised us a shiny new car and sold us an old beat up rust bucket...
As a customer I feel a little taken, as a gamer I feel betrayed. The condition of gameplay in Cyrodiil is very broken at the moment, and with every new fix (very few) things actually get worse instead of better. Don't give us empty promises and dance around the tough questions, give us the great game you promised and you will have the most loyal customer base any mmorpg has ever seen...
"Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.
Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking."
This is the description of ESO PvP is proudly displayed on the Official ESO Website;
"The Elder Scrolls Online features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?
The Elder Scrolls Online is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once."
The comments from Mr. Sage go against everything we were promised when we purchased the game, expecting the "massive PvP Battles". Now we cant even battle with 40 players onscreen at once without experiencing game killing lag and latency. All of us here represent the PvP community. We spend countless hours battling eachother in Cyrodiil because that is what drew us into the game in the first place. PvP Players are the most overlooked and always get a 'cold shoulder' when it comes to answers from the devs concerning gameplay issues.
If I bought a car, and the seller told me that the car would go 100MPH, but after I bought it I discovered it would only go 10MPH, I'd be pretty ticked off, as im sure anyone would. That is essentially what has happened here, @ZOS promised us a shiny new car and sold us an old beat up rust bucket...
As a customer I feel a little taken, as a gamer I feel betrayed. The condition of gameplay in Cyrodiil is very broken at the moment, and with every new fix (very few) things actually get worse instead of better. Don't give us empty promises and dance around the tough questions, give us the great game you promised and you will have the most loyal customer base any mmorpg has ever seen...
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
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I detect a thread that will be closed rather soon.
How dare you
There is NO lag, and this is NOT the Lag you are looking for (in best Yoda voice).
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rhoklaw_ESOSoul ShrivenI'm not seeing any more latency than I do in any other large scale PvP MMO. It certainly doesn't seem laggy with 40 people anyway and my system is about 4 years old and definitely not top of the line. Maybe when a hundred people are fighting do I start to see lag, but than again, I simply need to trade pretty graphics for better performance and drop my settings down to ugly but playable.0
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Goldie✭✭✭✭✭floorconub17_ESO wrote: »I detect a thread that will be closed rather soon.
How dare you
There is NO lag, and this is NOT the Lag you are looking for (in best Yoda voice).
This thread complies with the code of conduct."Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar1 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭
Does it really matter at this point?
They are "working" on it?
Just put your settings on low and play a game that looks worse than a 1996 fps.
Or crank it up to normal and play a power point presentation.2 -
Goldie✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »
Does it really matter at this point?
They are "working" on it?
Just put your settings on low and play a game that looks worse than a 1996 fps.
Or crank it up to normal and play a power point presentation.
It kinda does matter, I mean, we ARE paying for it. On top of it all, it has been a year now with steadily degrading performance. We had 5 times the players on screen in beta as we do now. I just want the game to work when I log on to play.Edited by Goldie on March 15, 2015 5:05AM"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar4 -
Goldie✭✭✭✭✭We need ideas other than "split off to other objectives".
Lets hear some ideas players, what can we do to fix Cyrodiil?"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »
Does it really matter at this point?
They are "working" on it?
Just put your settings on low and play a game that looks worse than a 1996 fps.
Or crank it up to normal and play a power point presentation.
Graphics doesn't help from what I've seen. Lower graphics just means moving smoother while your attacks do not go off and no one is taking damage. Hacking away at each other with nothing happening.2 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Yah, I know. I've been, and everyone else have been saying the same thing. I've posted the same thing you did six months ago and got the same response. "our team is working on it and..... Blah blah blah huh...
We did pay for it. And kept paying for an inferior* product on the promise it would get better.
Like ordering bad food at a bad restaurant, eating it, complaining to the manager and being told come back next time it will be better. So we do, and it's the same, and we do that every day for a year.
*I use that word only because we were promised something different than delivered. For me, pve is fine. But the massive pvp advertised, and for a while did happen at launch, has become unplayable using the same settings I did at launch. If I lower them to medium, I don't crash as often but still do. I still suffer from lag, when more than 40 players are on screen, when that wasn't an issue for me at launch. It's the same thing everyone says, and everyone gets the same response
We are working on it.
In a few days we can't even threaten to unsub in mass if it's not fixed.
That's the *** of it all.
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Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There's two distinct problems here:- The Alliance War is basically unplayable because of the lag. Any other bugs and balance issues don't even matter because the lag trumps them all.
- ZOS keeps advertising ESO as a game with epic, large scale PvP. The trailer for Tamriel Unlimited contains almost nothing but CGI of epic, large scale battles.
The first problem is something everybody dislikes, but can probably accept as a given as long as we know that it's something that is recognized and actively being worked on. Most of us here understand that it's really hard to do something like Cyrodiil and making it perform at a satisfactory level in most circumstances. The latest post from Sage is a small, but very good step into the the direction of more open and honest communication with your customers. Everybody (and that means you too, ZOS!) here loves the game deeply so there's no shame in being a bit more open with us. Even if it means you might have to write a second post to clarify your misunderstood openness. The secrecy is bad and only feeds speculation.
The second problem is much nastier one. Continuing to advertise ESO as having the epic, large scale PvP as described in the marketing material is a clear case of false advertisement. No matter how you look at it, the PvP as described in the marketing material is a lie. It does not exist and it hasn't existed for nearly a year by now. For the sake of being honest to your prospective and current customers, I would rewrite the marketing material so the talk about 'hundreds of players' and what not is changed into something more ambiguous, in true marketing fashion. This will remove the foul taste in their mouth that a lot of people have right now and in the future.
Oh, and keep working on fixing Cyrodiil, goddamnit.11 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭Obviously the most effective thing we could do as players, would be to even out the population on all the Campaigns.
However, good luck getting people to actually work together on such a grand scale. I don't think the community is close enough to make it happen.
I think in the short term. Having the community un-officially claiming particular campaigns could help.
Something like.
1. NA East coast campaign
2. NA West coast campaign
3. Australian campaign
This is an over simplification of what could be done, but if promoted correctly. I believe that it could work to at least mitigate some of the issues.
Of coarse this requires community participation. But some of the more well known guilds could help bring something like this to fruition.
Just my thought.
** Another idea. but would cause development work, could be to make the keeps and a small area around them instanced. Or maybe quarter the map and make it instanced.Edited by Xeniph on March 15, 2015 4:37PMHere since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.0 -
Lettigall✭✭✭✭✭
✭All calm down and restart your routers! ZOS are working on lag fix!
Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!9 -
Goldie✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_BrianWheeler After discussing some of the issues we compiled a list of things that could be removed from Cyrodiil in order to improve performance;
1. The mages in the corners of towers and by the transitus shrines really don't need to be casting anything. Especially over and over and over to no end. Neat trick, but serves no purpose other than creating lag. This uses up crucial sound and video memory.
2. The stones outside of Faregyl for example, have an ambient humming noise as a player gets close, again, neat trick but serves no purpose. This also uses up crucial memory!
3. Try reverting the lighting "fix" that was applied previously. No one can play in Cyrodiil with Shadows, Grass, or Lighting on Higher settings anyway due to the massive amounts of lag.
Sometimes the smallest changes can make the biggest impact...Edited by Goldie on March 15, 2015 8:57PM"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar8 -
bertenburnyb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭" we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil."
what a joke
first off, since 1.6 u cant have group v group (24v24) without ridiculous lagg, its gotten worse every patch but now its just preposterous.
secondly, this is supposed to be massive pvp, what they advertised and still are, and u cant even have a couple players fighting.... pathetic, other games made it work, but zos just keeps frakkin it up more & more
thirdly, they have reduced pop caps.... how many times now...? that even a fraction of the ammount of players s on a campain & still it didn't change sh*t
Zos server.jpg)
Edited by bertenburnyb16_ESO on March 15, 2015 9:30PMHaze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer
Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)2 -
IxSTALKERxI✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What upsets me most about this is that at launch I remember having epic 200 man battles fighting over a scroll without lag. It's really frustrating that the pvp experience has degraded overtime instead of improving. Actually I think I might even have footage of a 200 player fight from beta that had no lag.Edited by IxSTALKERxI on March 15, 2015 9:34PMNA | PC | Aldmeri DominionLaser Eyes AR 26 Arcanist | Stalker V AR 41 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 31 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 31 Sorc | Nigel the Great of BlackwaterFormer Emperor x11 campaign cyclesVenatus Officer | RIP RÁGE | YouTube Channel1 -
MormondPayne_EP✭✭✭✭@ZOS_BrianWheeler After discussing some of the issues we compiled a list of things that could be removed from Cyrodiil in order to improve performance;
1. The mages in the corners of towers and by the transitus shrines really don't need to be casting anything. Especially over and over and over to no end. Neat trick, but serves no purpose other than creating lag. This uses up crucial sound and video memory.
2. The stones outside of Faregyl for example, have an ambient humming noise as a player gets close, again, neat trick but serves no purpose. This also uses up crucial memory!
3. Try reverting the lighting "fix" that was applied previously. No one can play in Cyrodiil with Shadows, Grass, or Lighting on Higher settings anyway due to the massive amounts of lag.
Sometimes the smallest changes can make the biggest impact...
This makes sense to people who understand even the basics of computer systems and server load but evidence shows that ZOS does not understand these concepts... Not even of a rudimentary level.
So effing mad.
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Eldarth✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Just put your settings on low and play a game that looks worse than a 1996 fps.
Or crank it up to normal and play a power point presentation.
Really? Changing your CLIENT SIDE graphic settings removes the lag?
...so when are you getting a newer more powerful computer that can properly handle complex graphics?
A good lot of you all need to go back and play WoW one year after it's launch.
Then come back and whine some more.
This is extremely complex software -- if you want totally smooth gameplay, go play minecraft.
Sad.Edited by Eldarth on March 15, 2015 9:57PM1 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
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This.NadiusMaximus wrote: »
Does it really matter at this point?
They are "working" on it?
Just put your settings on low and play a game that looks worse than a 1996 fps.
Or crank it up to normal and play a power point presentation.
It kinda does matter, I mean, we ARE paying for it. On top of it all, it has been a year now with steadily degrading performance. We had 5 times the players on screen in beta as we do now. I just want the game to work when I log on to play.
Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 20130 -
Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭"The Elder Scrolls Online features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles.
The Elder Scrolls Online is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once."
The comments from Mr. Sage go against everything we were promised when we purchased the game, expecting the "massive PvP Battles".
As a customer I feel a little taken, as a gamer I feel betrayed.
This is literally the definition of why I quit.
Don't promise me epic when your code is so poorly optimized that the servers cant handle the load. You cant throw hardware at this problem because its a code problem.
The end.1 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Just put your settings on low and play a game that looks worse than a 1996 fps.
Or crank it up to normal and play a power point presentation.
Really? Changing your CLIENT SIDE graphic settings removes the lag?
...so when are you getting a newer more powerful computer that can properly handle complex graphics?
A good lot of you all need to go back and play WoW one year after it's launch.
Then come back and whine some more.
This is extremely complex software -- if you want totally smooth gameplay, go play minecraft.
Sad.
I did play wow 1 yr after launch.... and although the launch was terrible the was a lot of free game time handed out to ease the outcries... and 1yr from launch was nowhere near what we are seeing here it was very playable and nowhere near the amount of bugs... wow was also making progress... here we are moving backwards
DK SCRUB OUT2 -
CMG138✭✭✭rhoklaw_ESO wrote: »I'm not seeing any more latency than I do in any other large scale PvP MMO. It certainly doesn't seem laggy with 40 people anyway and my system is about 4 years old and definitely not top of the line. Maybe when a hundred people are fighting do I start to see lag, but than again, I simply need to trade pretty graphics for better performance and drop my settings down to ugly but playable.
Somehow I get the impression that you were planted here by ZoS.
Red or dead!7 -
Grim13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's an idea so wild it may just work: Zos should assign PvP servers to people randomly... and that's where you play. You couldn't move servers. Suck it up, make new PvP friends/Guilds.
Or, they could start off by randomly assigning servers to PvP Guilds first, then misc. Guilds, and then to the pugs.
Even better, assign people Servers based on their geographical location so that there'd more likely be people on at similar times.
This way, servers would always have some population and the lag would (*hopefully) decrease.
*Unless of course, performance is too far gone to be recoverable. (Which is where I'm presently leaning).1 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭It was a classic bait and switch from the marketing team at a highly disreputable company.4 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The OP is why ZOS usually just feeds us canned responses. You get a real response laying the problem out for you and the root cause of it, and you freak out and start feeling "betrayed." He should have just responded "we are working on it" as per ZOS usual.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Just put your settings on low and play a game that looks worse than a 1996 fps.
Or crank it up to normal and play a power point presentation.
Really? Changing your CLIENT SIDE graphic settings removes the lag?
...so when are you getting a newer more powerful computer that can properly handle complex graphics?
A good lot of you all need to go back and play WoW one year after it's launch.
Then come back and whine some more.
This is extremely complex software -- if you want totally smooth gameplay, go play minecraft.
Sad.
Lol. I know. It's sarcasm.
I was told by ZOS in a response that it would help.
My system can fully handle Gta5 , but not eso? Yeah, it's not me it's you.
1
