DeLindsay wrote: »

There's no need for 30K+ Health or gigantic pools of Stamina. I run about 25K Health Tanking in PvE and I have zero issues whatsoever, even as a Vampire. I'm hard capped in combat, actually a tad bit over 32,500 but who's counting. I also use Whitestrake's for it's Shield and that has saved me more times than I can count. I have ~21K Magicka and ~14K Stamina with (1) Shield Play Glyph and (2) Mag cost reduction and that setup is about as close to perfect resource wise as I can get right now with only 77 Champ Points. This is without using Siphoning Attacks as a NB for ST Boss fights, I do use SA for AOE and still resource burn some times. If I had to say what are good values to shoot for in PvE they'd be this:

• Hard cap (32,500) Armor/Resistance - even if you require both Major/Minor Wards to get there.
• 25K+ Health - only if you ARE hard capped, more if you are NOT.
• Mag/Stam - This is something you will have to play with to find out how much based on your Tank style.

Jaerlach wrote: »

Inner beast used to be a cost reduction morph. Inner rage costs vastly more resources than before and you can no longer use it to easily taunt all targets. This is really important in dsa where you could pick up all foes as they crossed the arena.

Inner Rage (the Magicka morph) can in fact be used to Taunt multiple NPC's if you have high enough Magicka pool and double cost reduction Glyphs. It's also wise to use this morph so that you have both a Stamina Taunt (Pierce Armor) and a Magicka Taunt just in case you burn out of 1 Resource pool.

what are these major and minor wards?

DeLindsay wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

i fixed my post after i seen that. however i have 1 full suit of amour on right now heavy and i only have 17k amour where do i get the rest?

There are several ways to look at gaining Armor value in 1.6. The easiest is using sets that have Armor as a set bonus, at VR14 Legendary that will get you 1860 each bonus. You can also use/craft body pcs with Reinforced for a little extra. Heavy Armor Focus Star adds a small amount of Armor for each point spent. There are also Armor jewelry glyphs for a little more (about 1.8% each). And finally there's the Major (5120 Armor) and Minor (960 Armor) Wards that you should try and keep up 100% when in combat. That means you only really need to reach 26,420 Armor to be Hard capped while in combat.

Major/Minor Wards are part of ZoS's new buff system introduced with 1.6. You can obtain either in various ways. Unstoppable in the Heavy Armor tree gives Major for X duration as an example.

they are so short! how can you tank and keep stamina at the same time that is insane. On top of that their has to be atlest 1 taunt on the skill bar for each, bound amour on another which leave with 2 spots to play around with which will most lily be a damage shield and a cc of some kind.

DeLindsay wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

they are so short! how can you tank and keep stamina at the same time that is insane

It was a steep learning curve but I did a bunch of testing on PTS for the month it was there. I still had to change some things once it hit Live but am in a really good build right now with my personal Tank setup and generally have no issues with Magicka or Stamina now. Keeping Wards up isn't terribly annoying anymore, it's kind of 2nd nature already.

Now on the other hand, those Tanks stacking tons of Health are suffering severely with Magicka/Stamina issues. I actually had close to 28K Health when 1.6 hit Live but have been slowly chipping away at that to add more Magicka/Stamina as I Tank more and more content and learn just how much I actually need of either, along with cost reduction. Right now I'm down to a little below 26K for my ST bar and just over 25K for my AOE bar and it works perfectly for me. I'm at a point where I have few issues with either pool and being hard capped (in combat) means I take very little damage, especially while Blocking.

ok so im not vet 14 yet at all but right now, i cant even get close to 32k amour with the wards. with wards up im at 23k which is a far cry off from 32k. Now as far as health goes im sitting at 20k basically right now unbuffed and no enchants, however my magic and stamina are really low like at 9k right now, so im assuming that i can get a food that will give 3k pre stat? which i hope is true as my pools will be 12 almost 13k which is still low but without enchants which then id want to raise both of those stats to at lest 3k more then what they are with just food. so that going to take at lest 4 augments per stats for 2k more, now im health will be at 22k give or take depending what stone i take. Now if i can get the recourse pools to 15k each and health to almost 23k should i be ok?

DeLindsay wrote: »

Everything I listed are for Vet Duneons + and figuring VR12+ for the most part. Anything much lower and I can't really say how much will work for you stat wise. Even if you're VR13 I still can't really say what will work for you personally and the group you run with normally because we all play differently, I can only give generic tips as to what values to shoot for (at VR14, in Legendary gear).

i got that, but im just messing around questing a bit and this is easy way easier then it use to be imo. I feel like i cant die. going to do more testing but this is what if feels like right now and im not even enchanted yet nore am i useing my second bar

I have a tank build for end game content with 30k health, 14.8k stam and 12.5k magicka.
I am a few % short on hard cap armor and resist even with major and minor buffs on (minor is easy to maintain via ransack)
With buffs I have 1600 magicka regen, 850 stamina regen plus Redguard adrenaline rush.
In honesty I could drop some health.
My other tank build runs 27k health, more stamina and rocks a 2h in off hand - this one is designed for vet dungeons.

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

likewow777 wrote: »

My current stats with food:

Health - 27k
Magicka - 19k
Stamina - 14k
Gear - 5 pc Seducer/4 pc Alessia's Bulwark/magicka reduction rings/magicka regen necklace
Armor/Spell Resist - ~27k/27k

That's a far cry from what it was before I adjusted things (used to be 8k stam, 30k+ health). I used to run with Death's Wind and Seducer, but I've since switched to Alessia's Bulwark and it's much better. With major ward, my armor/spell resist is over ~27k. I'm contemplating giving up Seducer's and replace it with Hist Bark, but giving up the magicka regen and reduce magic cost is a bit hard to swallow.

Stamina sustain for blocking was a huge issue, made better by dumping a ton of CPs into reducing block cost. If I keep an eye on my resources, and get a jump on the reducing stamina early, I can generally heavy attack as necessary. Mainly, you just can't stand and block anymore, but I find fights are a bit more fun.

It's still a work in progress, though.

Right now im sitting at 26k Health with food
11k with food for both mana and stamina
18k amour with bound amour
No enchants on any item, only vet 10, all amour is green for quality
Im using 5 Piece Hist Bark, and 4 Piece White strikers.
My first bar looks like its going to be Ransack, Degeneration, Hardened Ward, Lighting Form, and Bound Amour
My second bar looks like Innar Fire, Lighting Flood, Volcanic Ruin, Unknowen, Unknowen/Bound Amour(honestly not sure if i like BH or not in its current state, if remove it will probably add absorb on to the bar.
Im still testing to see if its worth it to even have the bound amour on the bar, iv tested it on basic VR 11 Craghorn mobs and i don't do bad and i don't see a big difference with bound amour on or off, so i may drop it. im going to stay at the 26k health no need to over due it. rest of my augs will be magic/stamina augs my goal is 15k per however i feel like i may need more. my health regin is at 800 and something however i need to replace my neck less so that may go up, my magic/stamin regin is not as high as id like it to be honestly i wanted those to be all most 800 and health 1k but it looks like this will have to do. So far thats my build and its doing well, AoE tanking which i know is not something your supposed to do in this game is really easy on this build honestly Volcanic Ruin, really helps with the damage reduction cuz you can spam it, also lighting flood, and lighting form as also great to get mass mobs down easly while switch and using degeneration from the mages guild line to help keep the heals coming as best as we can as sorcs.

Your health looks good to me, plus the high health regen. I actually have half of your health regen, but I have many healing spells as a Templar at my disposal. It's dependant on your build what you want to maximize. Since I'm magic based, I have 1k+ regen there. Once I've got the boss mechanics down, I can pop Blazing Shield and heavy attack for stamina or throw down some healing for my group if they're taking punishment. If I'm feeling really confident, I'll grab other enemies with Inner Fire and keep going on the boss. Blazing Shield up keeps me safe, so I just ignore the adds attacking me, let my group take them down from a distance, and concentrate on the boss.

Bar 1, Tanking:

Pierce Armor
Structured Entropy
Blazing Shield
Channeled Focus (armor buff and magicka regen)
Repentance (get health and stamina back for me and group when enemies die)

Bar 2 is my healing bar and has Inner Rage on slot 1 always, to grab anything far away. The rest of the bar depends on the situation. I might keep Blazing Shield there on slot 3 so I always have access to it, or swap for something DPS. Breath of Life is always slot 5 for the "oh ****" moment.

With Hardened Ward, you have a similar sort of protection. If you need to swap bars, heavy attack, or whatever else, that can soak up damage while you do it. If I'm running with a Templar, I'll ask if they can cast Luminous Shards once in a while to give stamina and magic. Health is the least of my issues, to be frank. If I'm about to die, chances are great that the rest of my group is already dead.

My metric for tanking solo is abusing my character with as many enemies as I can find at once. Stuff like running into Spellscar and pulling multiple groups, then staying alive, or these days Skyreach Catacombs is the hot spot. It's not the same as running a VR dungeon, say, but the idea is I need to stay self sufficient through anything. Once that sort of thing is easy, I'll do delves solo in Craglorn. The benefit of spells like Bound Armor really show when you have a high level boss beating on you.

dharbert wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

derpsticks wrote: »

Also depends on your class and race or else any numbers thrown around in this thread might not be applicable.

Just know that 32500 armor = 50% mitigation which it the cap. You can get more armor, but it won't do much unless you use it as a buffer to counteract armor debuffs.

So heavy amour is the only way to go now then correct?

No more tanking in bath robes, thankfully.

That's a [snip]. One should be able to tank in any armor he/she wants, with heavy providing best mitigation for physical damage, medium in dodging damage all together, and light being best option against magic damage. What one shouldn't be allowed is to have big defense and big offense at same time, like we had in past months. What we have now is nothing more then heavy armor being new fotm, because ZOS is apparently unable to tweak and balance classes and skills in little steps, but have 'its either black or white' approach, after months of doing nothing.

Off-topic, but still... In same manner, one should be able to choose what type of resources his class abilities should use, and not impose limitations like we have now in 1.6 with different morphs. Among many other things, that is the biggest reason why I personally think 1.6 is worst update so far (even tho it brings most good stuff compared to prev updates). It impose new limitations in building your character and playstyle. CS is topic for another discussion.

Btw, you don't mind one playing dps in heavy armor, but you mind someone tanking in light? Also, such approach kills hybrid class like Templar. In a nutshell, Templar is magicka based warrior, with shields and runes acting as main defense. Increasing number of Templars with 2H and a bow, and with only 1 or 2 Templar abilities out of 12 on bars is nothing more then abomination and perfect example how current state of balance is bad. When weapon abilities surpass class abilities by far, something is very wrong with game. No, it has nothing to do with 'play as you want'.

Templar tank here. 28k health/ 21k magicka/ 12.5k stamina/ 1100 magicka regen/ 550 stamina regen/ 450 health regen/ 2100 resists. Twice born star (5)/ seducers (2)/ footmans (3)/ pacts (3 (resto staff 2 rings)). Mundus stones: Max magicka/ magicka regen. IMHO magicka better than stamina as tank, due to the amount of stamina damage skills and stamina utility skills. Also with more magicka I can use stamina ONLY for blocking, and I can drain my magicka without worrying about dieing. More magicka mean more and stronger heals, I'm working on slowly increasing my spell cost reduction OR spell damage and taking some from block cost...well see how it works though...

DeLindsay wrote: »

For all of those who say Light Armor Tanking is dead in 1.6, they obviously never play a Sorc in PvP or would truly understand how wrong they are.

I think the OP is asking about PvE, not PvP

Right now I'd say to tank endgame you need around 28-30k Health/18-20k stam/12-14k magicka give or take.
Stats regen is very, very important, you should be on the 700-800s both on magicka and stamina regen.

Also, make sure you have a Templar with Repentance & Spears on your group (when you face big groups, otherwise Spears is just fine) and you should never worry about stam problems.

For vet dungeons you have more room for other builds.
Regarding tanking endgame content like SO in LA, well... maybe with 3600 CP

Arki wrote: »

Shouldnt be too hard to get to armor cap as vr14. My sorc just respecced to tank, crafted some blue bulwark with reinforced and now have 20k armor unbuffed at just VR3. And keeping up major ward with thundering presence is easy as pie without any big investment in makicka.

It's alot of fun and I find it much easier to get good mitigation now in 1.6.

My only problem now is having enough resource when i have to retaunt alot of mobs, in some spesific encounters.

Actually considering going more into max magicka to have higher dmg output on thundering and liquid lightning (which both run constantly when im tanking) and to increase summon dmg (I alternate between slotting the clanfear and the flappy one, as the clanfear is handy to keep one or two mobs out of the fight and the flappy does more straight up dmg).

Min/maxers probably bleed from their eyes when they read stuff like that but atm doing vet dungeons my issues so far are neither getting enough stam to block or health/mitigation to survive - its more about having resources to taunt often enough and having a nice steady flow of aoe dmg going.

All this might change as I level up ofc and face harder content.

i just ran my first vet dungeon since i cam game and i soloed a boss cuz the group died... we never finished the dungeon because for some reason i always get stuck with people who lack dps and in this case AoE dps. So the last time i played was i think 1.0.05? something like that anyway right now i im not having any issues really as a sorc tank, and im ruining hist/white strikers sets. id love to get my hands on some accessory's with magic regin bounce as i don't have stamina issues really and my magic and stamina are at about the same spot 15k and iv got 23k health. if i drop any lower on health im not going to have the magic to cast spells back to back which is a problem now i have not tried raid level gear yet and im still trying to figure out pledges, il give you a update as soon as i have more info on the results of my testing.

Jaerlach wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

You can still tank in Light Armor in 1.6, you just have to build it differently than 1.5.8.

I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see someone try this in SO! I been needing a good laugh

And the exact same was said about about Sorc Tanking in 1.5.8 and we have video of one (in 5 LA / 2 HA) Tanking VDSA including stage 10 without any issues. Same has also been said about DK's Healing or Templars DPS'ing, etc yet there are competent Players doing all the "undesirable" Roles and excelling at them. Just because YOU think it won't work doesn't mean it's impossible. You can still reach reasonable Armor/Resistance values in 5 LA / 2 HA since it's very easy to build a set with several 1860 Armor set bonuses. A Sorc would fair best with LA Tanking in 1.6 due to Magicka stacking and Hardened Ward (a similar setup some use in PvP, hence my previous comment). Hardened Ward is literally a direct extension of a Player's Health pool.

All Classes have cleared ALL Content in ESO in every Role. This whole stigma towards one type or another is tired and old. Also Medium Armor Tanks do VERY well in 1.6 even with substandard gear setup. Everything pre-1.6 is still possible post 1.6, but you have to be willing to change it up a little and maybe spend a hefty chunk of your Champion Points for Passives to increase your viability.

Yes, before 1.6, you could tank in LA, no disagreement from you on that. But now, I think it's a little far fetched, it's it POSSIBLE to hit Hard capped armor in LA, sure, but would it be good for actually tanking, probably not, cause you're suggesting 2 pc gear here, 4 pc gear there another 2 pc here and 2 pc there. Not the build I was stand behind. You would also have a huge issue with stamina. blocking without 5pc heavy will drain you're stam.

ZOS changed armor so in Update 6, to tank the heavy stuff, you need to have the heavy stuff.

If you want to be hard capped with both Armor and SR WITHOUT relying on a spell or abilities, Heavy is the way to go.

And I really don't recall anyone tanking SO in LA

Even in heavy hardcap without a buff is difficult. I suspect there is a solid medium armor tank build for non sanctum content out there. I csn hit 26k armor in 5 footman 5 hist with 5m 2h. Light armor will have to sacrifice too much to get there for it to be good.


Your 1.5 data isn't useul. Serpent image hits way harder than he did before and is probably a greater test of your defense than mantikora now. Giving up the heavy armor block passive alone would be incredibly dangerous.

Fwiw, Petros and I duo tank so together. You can see some differences in how we build based on what we do: I tank bottom, and am partial dps during serpent, and also spend more time on vet dsa. Petros is our primary trial tank and goes all out to maximize that.

Every tank spec will vary based on your content and goals. If you tank vet dungeons you can stop at 25k armor and 24k health and devote your time to adding dps and utility. If you want to do vdsa or sanctum, you need to improve different things.

im not sure how yall are getting to that level of amour even with the buffs, because even if i use both the sorc buff lighting form, and the heavy amour buff i dont reach 32k amour not even close hit like 23k