Big flaw of battle leveling lower level characters in cyrodiil (possibly new in 1.6)

Sharee · March 2015

TLDR: Resource regeneration rates are not sufficiently boosted.

So i dinged level 10 on my orc DK and decided to go pick up the 2 skillpoints from the introductory quest in cyrodiil. Mission accomplished, and since there was a keep siege going on, i decided to jump in for fun.

I quickly discovered that once i ran out of resources, i was pretty much out of resources for good. So i looked at the numbers:

PvE land: 2740 stamina, 156 stamina regen = 17 seconds to completely regen stamina
PvP land: 16405 stamina, 339 stamina regen = 48 seconds to completely regen stamina. This cannot possibly be intended.

I know there are bigger fishes to fry, but if you find some time, this needs addressing because it makes cyrodiil pretty much unplayable for lower levels (especially bad considering all the new players coming with Unlimited wanting to try out cyrodiil for the first time.)

s7732425ub17_ESO · March 2015

Good find.

driosketch · March 2015

I noticed that too, regen is almost a third what it needs to be.

Rune_Relic · March 2015

Keep saying Pvp stamina is way off regen.
Almost to the point of being stationary sometimes.
I really think a lot of the time its just missing ticks with server lag and there is bugger all you can do.
Bugged it in 1.5....1.6 seems even more lethargic

Its really a question of having enough stamina+DPS to burst kill before you run out....if you rely on regen and sustain you got a big problem in PVP land.
Alas, I keep persevering though lol.

Ezareth · March 2015

Sharee wrote: »

TLDR: Resource regeneration rates are not sufficiently boosted.

So i dinged level 10 on my orc DK and decided to go pick up the 2 skillpoints from the introductory quest in cyrodiil. Mission accomplished, and since there was a keep siege going on, i decided to jump in for fun.

I quickly discovered that once i ran out of resources, i was pretty much out of resources for good. So i looked at the numbers:

PvE land: 2740 stamina, 156 stamina regen = 17 seconds to completely regen stamina
PvP land: 16405 stamina, 339 stamina regen = 48 seconds to completely regen stamina. This cannot possibly be intended.

I know there are bigger fishes to fry, but if you find some time, this needs addressing because it makes cyrodiil pretty much unplayable for lower levels (especially bad considering all the new players coming with Unlimited wanting to try out cyrodiil for the first time.)

This seems like it is working as intended to me.

Should a level 10 really be viable in Cyrodiil? Hell my V14 sorc has half the Stamina your L10 DK has with battle leveling. I don't think it was ever intended to make players really effective at extremely lower levels, only give them the capability to not be 1-shoted by every VR14 they run into.

Xeniph · March 2015

This is because bolster doesn't take into account so many things:

Gear quality doesn't matter.

Enchants aren't counted (weapon/jewelry do)

Any set bonuses less than 5 piece don't give you anything.

However some things that do help when bolstered:

5 piece set bonuses.

Food/Drink buffs.

Gear weight ( Heavy,Medium,Light) matters for regen depending on passives.

Weapon/Jewelry enchants.

I believe this is intended, so as to normalize everyone. Also as the pools are increased, the cost of every spell is set to what it would cost a level 49. Even at lvl 49 decked out in epic gear, you can't obtain the stat spread of armor/resist values you get bolstered, when you turn it off. And boy are these folks in for a surprise when the realize Light armor is less mitigation, than when bolstered at levels 10-49.

You can literally run around naked and will only lack a bit of regen/cost reduction.

So to summarize. Use food, enchant those weapons and jewelry, level your gear passives (specifically Cost reduction/regen) and do what you can to obtain good 5 piece set bonuses.

** Forgot to mention racial passives to cost reduction/regen count aswell.

Sharee · March 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

TLDR: Resource regeneration rates are not sufficiently boosted.

So i dinged level 10 on my orc DK and decided to go pick up the 2 skillpoints from the introductory quest in cyrodiil. Mission accomplished, and since there was a keep siege going on, i decided to jump in for fun.

I quickly discovered that once i ran out of resources, i was pretty much out of resources for good. So i looked at the numbers:

PvE land: 2740 stamina, 156 stamina regen = 17 seconds to completely regen stamina
PvP land: 16405 stamina, 339 stamina regen = 48 seconds to completely regen stamina. This cannot possibly be intended.

I know there are bigger fishes to fry, but if you find some time, this needs addressing because it makes cyrodiil pretty much unplayable for lower levels (especially bad considering all the new players coming with Unlimited wanting to try out cyrodiil for the first time.)

This seems like it is working as intended to me.

Should a level 10 really be viable in Cyrodiil? Hell my V14 sorc has half the Stamina your L10 DK has with battle leveling. I don't think it was ever intended to make players really effective at extremely lower levels, only give them the capability to not be 1-shoted by every VR14 they run into.

Xeniph wrote: »

This is because bolster doesn't take into account so many things:

Gear quality doesn't matter.

Enchants aren't counted (weapon/jewelry do)

Any set bonuses less than 5 piece don't give you anything.

However some things that do help when bolstered:

5 piece set bonuses.

Food/Drink buffs.

Gear weight ( Heavy,Medium,Light) matters for regen depending on passives.

Weapon/Jewelry enchants.

I believe this is intended, so as to normalize everyone. Also as the pools are increased, the cost of every spell is set to what it would cost a level 49. Even at lvl 49 decked out in epic gear, you can't obtain the stat spread of armor/resist values you get bolstered, when you turn it off. And boy are these folks in for a surprise when the realize Light armor is less mitigation, than when bolstered at levels 10-49.

You can literally run around naked and will only lack a bit of regen/cost reduction.

So to summarize. Use food, enchant those weapons and jewelry, level your gear passives (specifically Cost reduction/regen) and do what you can to obtain good 5 piece set bonuses.

** Forgot to mention racial passives to cost reduction/regen count aswell.

It is intended to normalize everyone, yes. However the normalized values need to be in line with the typical PvE values, relatively speaking.

If using uppercut drains your stamina in 3 uses in PvE, it should do so in PvP as well. If a drained stamina bar regens in 17 seconds in PvE, it should regen in 17 seconds(or close to it) in PvP as well. You cannot realistically expect a new player to stand around for almost a full minute waiting for stamina after he uses 3 skills and be happy about it.

Please note that i did not do anything special to boost my stamina regen in PvE that would be consequently ignored by bolster, like stam regen set bonuses, or jewelry enchants. The 17 seconds-to-regen is what a stock level 10 equipped in plain unenchanted armor has. It's the base value, basically. There's no reason to increase it threefold while in cyrodiil.

Xeniph · March 2015

Sharee wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

TLDR: Resource regeneration rates are not sufficiently boosted.

So i dinged level 10 on my orc DK and decided to go pick up the 2 skillpoints from the introductory quest in cyrodiil. Mission accomplished, and since there was a keep siege going on, i decided to jump in for fun.

I quickly discovered that once i ran out of resources, i was pretty much out of resources for good. So i looked at the numbers:

PvE land: 2740 stamina, 156 stamina regen = 17 seconds to completely regen stamina
PvP land: 16405 stamina, 339 stamina regen = 48 seconds to completely regen stamina. This cannot possibly be intended.

I know there are bigger fishes to fry, but if you find some time, this needs addressing because it makes cyrodiil pretty much unplayable for lower levels (especially bad considering all the new players coming with Unlimited wanting to try out cyrodiil for the first time.)

This seems like it is working as intended to me.

Should a level 10 really be viable in Cyrodiil? Hell my V14 sorc has half the Stamina your L10 DK has with battle leveling. I don't think it was ever intended to make players really effective at extremely lower levels, only give them the capability to not be 1-shoted by every VR14 they run into.

Xeniph wrote: »

This is because bolster doesn't take into account so many things:

Gear quality doesn't matter.

Enchants aren't counted (weapon/jewelry do)

Any set bonuses less than 5 piece don't give you anything.

However some things that do help when bolstered:

5 piece set bonuses.

Food/Drink buffs.

Gear weight ( Heavy,Medium,Light) matters for regen depending on passives.

Weapon/Jewelry enchants.

I believe this is intended, so as to normalize everyone. Also as the pools are increased, the cost of every spell is set to what it would cost a level 49. Even at lvl 49 decked out in epic gear, you can't obtain the stat spread of armor/resist values you get bolstered, when you turn it off. And boy are these folks in for a surprise when the realize Light armor is less mitigation, than when bolstered at levels 10-49.

You can literally run around naked and will only lack a bit of regen/cost reduction.

So to summarize. Use food, enchant those weapons and jewelry, level your gear passives (specifically Cost reduction/regen) and do what you can to obtain good 5 piece set bonuses.

** Forgot to mention racial passives to cost reduction/regen count aswell.

It is intended to normalize everyone, yes. However the normalized values need to be in line with the typical PvE values, relatively speaking.

If using uppercut drains your stamina in 3 uses in PvE, it should do so in PvP as well. If a drained stamina bar regens in 17 seconds in PvE, it should regen in 17 seconds(or close to it) in PvP as well. You cannot realistically expect a new player to stand around for almost a full minute waiting for stamina after he uses 3 skills and be happy about it.

Please note that i did not do anything special to boost my stamina regen in PvE that would be consequently ignored by bolster, like stam regen set bonuses, or jewelry enchants. The 17 seconds-to-regen is what a stock level 10 equipped in plain unenchanted armor has. It's the base value, basically. There's no reason to increase it threefold while in cyrodiil.

I'm sorry, but you have to remember the pool you have bolstered is a lot larger. You can use more abilities realatively speaking than that unbolstered player. I feel you though, in pve I have 1500+ Stamina regen with the same, 17k ish pool.

The system you are complaining about has it's flaws, however you have to remember that you could never have those stats or regen in all 3 area's at the same time while leveling.

Fact is, bolster is downright OP, assuming you know how to use it to your advantage.

Basically if you want better regen, use the proper type of armor, get the regen passives and use a food buff. And don't forget to use those heavy attacks for regen.

Sharee · March 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

TLDR: Resource regeneration rates are not sufficiently boosted.

So i dinged level 10 on my orc DK and decided to go pick up the 2 skillpoints from the introductory quest in cyrodiil. Mission accomplished, and since there was a keep siege going on, i decided to jump in for fun.

I quickly discovered that once i ran out of resources, i was pretty much out of resources for good. So i looked at the numbers:

PvE land: 2740 stamina, 156 stamina regen = 17 seconds to completely regen stamina
PvP land: 16405 stamina, 339 stamina regen = 48 seconds to completely regen stamina. This cannot possibly be intended.

I know there are bigger fishes to fry, but if you find some time, this needs addressing because it makes cyrodiil pretty much unplayable for lower levels (especially bad considering all the new players coming with Unlimited wanting to try out cyrodiil for the first time.)

This seems like it is working as intended to me.

Should a level 10 really be viable in Cyrodiil? Hell my V14 sorc has half the Stamina your L10 DK has with battle leveling. I don't think it was ever intended to make players really effective at extremely lower levels, only give them the capability to not be 1-shoted by every VR14 they run into.

Xeniph wrote: »

This is because bolster doesn't take into account so many things:

Gear quality doesn't matter.

Enchants aren't counted (weapon/jewelry do)

Any set bonuses less than 5 piece don't give you anything.

However some things that do help when bolstered:

5 piece set bonuses.

Food/Drink buffs.

Gear weight ( Heavy,Medium,Light) matters for regen depending on passives.

Weapon/Jewelry enchants.

I believe this is intended, so as to normalize everyone. Also as the pools are increased, the cost of every spell is set to what it would cost a level 49. Even at lvl 49 decked out in epic gear, you can't obtain the stat spread of armor/resist values you get bolstered, when you turn it off. And boy are these folks in for a surprise when the realize Light armor is less mitigation, than when bolstered at levels 10-49.

You can literally run around naked and will only lack a bit of regen/cost reduction.

So to summarize. Use food, enchant those weapons and jewelry, level your gear passives (specifically Cost reduction/regen) and do what you can to obtain good 5 piece set bonuses.

** Forgot to mention racial passives to cost reduction/regen count aswell.

It is intended to normalize everyone, yes. However the normalized values need to be in line with the typical PvE values, relatively speaking.

If using uppercut drains your stamina in 3 uses in PvE, it should do so in PvP as well. If a drained stamina bar regens in 17 seconds in PvE, it should regen in 17 seconds(or close to it) in PvP as well. You cannot realistically expect a new player to stand around for almost a full minute waiting for stamina after he uses 3 skills and be happy about it.

Please note that i did not do anything special to boost my stamina regen in PvE that would be consequently ignored by bolster, like stam regen set bonuses, or jewelry enchants. The 17 seconds-to-regen is what a stock level 10 equipped in plain unenchanted armor has. It's the base value, basically. There's no reason to increase it threefold while in cyrodiil.

I'm sorry, but you have to remember the pool you have bolstered is a lot larger. You can use more abilities realatively speaking than that unbolstered player. I feel you though, in pve I have 1500+ Stamina regen with the same, 17k ish pool.

The system you are complaining about has it's flaws, however you have to remember that you could never have those stats or regen in all 3 area's at the same time while leveling.

Fact is, bolster is downright OP, assuming you know how to use it to your advantage.

The point i am making is that a new player that knows nothing of the inner workings of the game should not feel a huge difference when switching between PvE and PvP when it comes to ability costs and regens.

When a brand new player enters cyrodiil for the first time, he will be confused as to why it takes him forever to regen his stamina compared to what he experienced in glenumbra just a minute ago. He will feel like the game is bugged.

I know bolster is not perfect, but it should give the player at least roughly the same number of attacks per stamina bar, and roughly regen it back to full in the same time as what he became used to in his pve(at least for the default level ~10 character). I see absolutely no valid reason why this should not be so, and why these parameters would need to be so wildly different in-and-out of cyrodiil.

KBKB · March 2015

Not to mention their HP pool, went to take out a level 12 and got a pretty big shock had to stop trolling and actually try!

ZOS_BrianWheeler · March 2015

I've shot this over to the combat gang and they'll look into the regen issues. We have been discussing increasing the overall effectiveness of Battle Leveling and possibly raising stats as well.

Sharee · March 2015

Awesome, thanks Brian.

Rune_Relic · March 2015

+1 Thanks Brian

Workerdroid7 · March 2015

The in-combat regen rates in Cyrodiil for non-vet characters has been appalling since 1.6 landed. Taking keep resources can now be a very entertaining thing: your group takes out the tower mage and a few other NPCs.... then there is a 60 second pause while we all wait for our stats to regen before charging the flag. Quite handy for those of us who need to re-fill coffee mugs.

I assumed this was intentional, glad to see it might not be.

driosketch · March 2015

KBKB wrote: »

Not to mention their HP pool, went to take out a level 12 and got a pretty big shock had to stop trolling and actually try!

The bolstered pools are higher than my VR4. My level 12 feels uber strong, but I have to break for a minute at a time to regen once I burn through resources. I wouldn't mind some trade off between the two it allows for better flow.

glak · March 2015

Use a drink buff instead of the food buff.

Aimelin · March 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

I've shot this over to the combat gang and they'll look into the regen issues. We have been discussing increasing the overall effectiveness of Battle Leveling and possibly raising stats as well.

Your game is so broken even with the 20% dmg decrease from the battle buff people are still hitting for dumb amounts and then the fall dmg bug .... Then the "fixed" radiant destruction .... Face roll on keyboard , see some form of code, patch it in?

CrazedDark · March 2015

Aimelin wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

I've shot this over to the combat gang and they'll look into the regen issues. We have been discussing increasing the overall effectiveness of Battle Leveling and possibly raising stats as well.

Your game is so broken even with the 20% dmg decrease from the battle buff people are still hitting for dumb amounts and then the fall dmg bug .... Then the "fixed" radiant destruction .... Face roll on keyboard , see some form of code, patch it in?

Please tell us more. Maybe something we haven't heard a thousand times on the forums. /sarcasm

Chill, theyre working on it.

Sharee · March 2015

glak wrote: »

Use a drink buff instead of the food buff.

Level 10 provisioning buffs are next to useless to a character who has been boosted to the equivalent of a vet 5. They are great in glenumbra, but in cyrodiil, not so much.

k2blader · March 2015

Ohh, I have been wondering why, when my nonvet zones into Cyrodiil to do a little banking, I get this freaky low health warning. It's also funny she has 5k more health than my VR. :-P

Rylana · March 2015

Sharee wrote: »

glak wrote: »

Use a drink buff instead of the food buff.

Level 10 provisioning buffs are next to useless to a character who has been boosted to the equivalent of a vet 5. They are great in glenumbra, but in cyrodiil, not so much.

But the level 35s... now those are serious business, and the 45s.

You take a level 35-45 char with purple drink into PvP and suddenly you have a twinked out monster.

olsborg · March 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

I've shot this over to the combat gang and they'll look into the regen issues. We have been discussing increasing the overall effectiveness of Battle Leveling and possibly raising stats as well.

regen, sure, but max stats? I see level 10s having 27k hp without even trying, im a sorc v14 and im at 20k and im trying atleast a littlebit.

undistortion · March 2015

I was sure that Jewelry Regen Glyphs changed your stats before 1.6?? They don't seem to make a difference now. Did I just waste a few Kutas

Draxys · March 2015

undistortion wrote: »

I was sure that Jewelry Regen Glyphs changed your stats before 1.6?? They don't seem to make a difference now. Did I just waste a few Kutas

most jewelry enchants are currently not worth using

maryriv · March 2015

I think it's just fine as is.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

I can confirm that something is awry. It feels weird. I tossed a lvl 15-17 toon around BB non vet campaing. And I would gladly sacrifice a little health or stats for lets say double regen. Sitting at around 350 stam regen, to fill up a pool of 17k. Makes for kind of crappy PvP.

I dont think Battle Level should provide vr14 benefits, but make lower levels just good enough to not be 1 shotted and feel more useful. Double regen values would go a long way toward this.

Cody · March 2015

I honestly think it has always been this way. Battle levels have always been more of a hindrance in the long run. I am sure this is one of the reasons.

Workerdroid7 · March 2015

Another thing I've noted... in the non-vet campaign, armor glyphs do not work at all, and neither do most of the bonuses from crafted armor sets.

For example, my current character is a level 23 DK, and I've built this character along the lines of a magicka based tank who wears all heavy armor. This build clearly needs help on the magicka regen and max magicka front.... so obviously I select an crafted set that has max magicka and regen bonuses. And, of course, I invest serious gold to buy 7 high-end magicka armor glyphs.... the problem is, when I'm in Cyrodiil... my max magicka and magicka regen rates are COMPLETELY unaffected by my armor (and its glyphs). I can remove all my armor pieces, and the magicka stats remain the same (not the resistance values, obviously).

This poses some issues.. apart form the complete waste of money buying glyphs that do nothing, and the attention paid to crafting armor sets that do nothing.. how exactly should I go about crafting a non-vet PVP build? How DO I actually increase my magicka stats without wearing light armor (which is completely useless for a tank build)?

Edit: I can confirm that jewellery glyphs don't work either.... I was soooo pleased to get a "reward" of a necklace that adds 300 magicka, and I put it on with much excitement.... only to discover that it actually adds zero magicka. An truly awesome "reward"

kijima · March 2015

Hi guys, just got into Cyrodiil after leveling my toon to 10 (which for the record, takes me just over 1 hour now when creating new alts) and I'm not as strong as someone that is vet 14 with crafted gear, a specific build with synergies that has been playing since beta. Fix this now ZOS!

Maybe ZOS should introduce that straight to level 90 thing like WoW... or not.

Better regen would be nice, but lower levels have always been pinata's in PvP

ArconSeptim · March 2015

Sharee wrote: »

TLDR: Resource regeneration rates are not sufficiently boosted.

So i dinged level 10 on my orc DK and decided to go pick up the 2 skillpoints from the introductory quest in cyrodiil. Mission accomplished, and since there was a keep siege going on, i decided to jump in for fun.

I quickly discovered that once i ran out of resources, i was pretty much out of resources for good. So i looked at the numbers:

PvE land: 2740 stamina, 156 stamina regen = 17 seconds to completely regen stamina
PvP land: 16405 stamina, 339 stamina regen = 48 seconds to completely regen stamina. This cannot possibly be intended.

I know there are bigger fishes to fry, but if you find some time, this needs addressing because it makes cyrodiil pretty much unplayable for lower levels (especially bad considering all the new players coming with Unlimited wanting to try out cyrodiil for the first time.)

Yep these are bad things in PvP, also in PvE I have to mention, guards when chase you around your health doesn't regenerate at all is that intended?

Rune_Relic · March 2015

ArconSeptim wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

TLDR: Resource regeneration rates are not sufficiently boosted.

So i dinged level 10 on my orc DK and decided to go pick up the 2 skillpoints from the introductory quest in cyrodiil. Mission accomplished, and since there was a keep siege going on, i decided to jump in for fun.

I quickly discovered that once i ran out of resources, i was pretty much out of resources for good. So i looked at the numbers:

PvE land: 2740 stamina, 156 stamina regen = 17 seconds to completely regen stamina
PvP land: 16405 stamina, 339 stamina regen = 48 seconds to completely regen stamina. This cannot possibly be intended.

I know there are bigger fishes to fry, but if you find some time, this needs addressing because it makes cyrodiil pretty much unplayable for lower levels (especially bad considering all the new players coming with Unlimited wanting to try out cyrodiil for the first time.)

Yep these are bad things in PvP, also in PvE I have to mention, guards when chase you around your health doesn't regenerate at all is that intended?

Exactly why we need transparency. Combat regen is not the same as out of combat regen. Would be nice to look through the logs and see everything that's happening. Check stuff is working as intended.