I am a Murderer...and not by choice

Gunga_Dihn · March 2015

I was questing last night with my Templar, who I play as a good guy/Paladin style. I went into an area where the non agro NPC's were fighting with agro Mobs in an invasion/overrun setting. I was tasked to drive back the MOBs and save the NPC's. When I attacked the Mobs to help the NPC's the NPC's turned Red and attacked...then died to my AOE. I was notified that I got the 'achievement' of 'Murderer'. I am not a hard core RP so I am not suicidal and did not delete my toon but I was disappointed that my toon performed evil against my will just the same.

I am not real happy with this part of the game mechanics and have a tough time thinking this is working as intended. When a quest requires you to assist NPC's that are engaged with MOB's they should be outside of the Justice System or you should get a warning or something before you kill those you are tasked to help. For the remainder of the fights I had to avoid half my skills so as not to accidentally kill another NPC. Kind of stupid IMO.

Kragorn · March 2015

There is the option 'Prevent Attacking Innocents' option in Gameplay, which I'm pretty sure wasn't in the patch notes, that should prevent this happening.

vovus69 · March 2015

You can enable "Do not attack NPC" option in your Gameplay menu and it will be fine. I just did couple of quests in Greenshade yesterday in exactly same situation and had no problem.

subbssb14_ESO · March 2015

You are right it would be a good idea for quest npcs you need to help to not be part of justice system however FYI under Settings>Gameplay there is a checkbox to disable attacking innocents, when you check this box the game will not allow you to murder neutral justice npcs unless they attack you first. Checking that box is the first thing I do when logging onto a character after 1.6 so that I can spam attacks in towns all I want and it will not accidentally give me a bounty. Exception to this is that if you accidentally HEAL a player who is engaged in attacking innocents you also get a bounty.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

Collateral damage.

Slurg · March 2015

Agree with posters above. If it's the same quest I did in Greenshade, the Prevent Attacking Innocents option in the UI works perfectly to prevent you from killing those you are trying to help in that quest and every other quest I've done so far.

But yes it could be more clear that's what you need to do, or ideally those would be tagged as quest NPCs so you wouldn't even have to worry about it.

Demira · March 2015

that was the first thing i did when entering the game and turned off, on all my characters to attack innocent NPC's.

pema · March 2015

Guys turning it off is not the problem, when I do a quest. I had this in shadowfen, I want to do my objectives. I hit a mob and some random NPC walks in as the sword slashes the NPC turns red and you can run and be killed, as many will follow, or kill and be instand fudder for the guards.
I dont mind the fact that I can choose to attack and kill if I want, but if it's in the way of my questing then I'll have no option then to opt out of justice.

So it's mechanics that are giving an issue not the fact we don't wanna kill people.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

pema wrote: »

Guys turning it off is not the problem, when I do a quest. I had this in shadowfen, I want to do my objectives. I hit a mob and some random NPC walks in as the sword slashes the NPC turns red and you can run and be killed, as many will follow, or kill and be instand fudder for the guards.
I dont mind the fact that I can choose to attack and kill if I want, but if it's in the way of my questing then I'll have no option then to opt out of justice.

So it's mechanics that are giving an issue not the fact we don't wanna kill people.

Adapt and overcome.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

pema wrote: »

Guys turning it off is not the problem, when I do a quest. I had this in shadowfen, I want to do my objectives. I hit a mob and some random NPC walks in as the sword slashes the NPC turns red and you can run and be killed, as many will follow, or kill and be instand fudder for the guards.
I dont mind the fact that I can choose to attack and kill if I want, but if it's in the way of my questing then I'll have no option then to opt out of justice.

So it's mechanics that are giving an issue not the fact we don't wanna kill people.

This. Turning on "Protect Innocents" does not prevent NPC damage in situations like this. It will still tag you as KoS.

Had the same thing happen to me when an NPC stepped in front. I'm not worried about the titlle - he dies because he was stupid.

However, simply put, the death should not qualify if you are not stealthed on first hit (implies intent) or you and other PC's are the only ones doing damage to the NPC. In the mob scenario, the enemy would be hitting, as well (Even though I know the hits do not lower HP)

kodo · March 2015

activating that option of prevent attacking innocents will also disable the glow that npc's
has since the update, that white color around them.
i pesonally think it's better to disable it anyway, hate all that glow that changes around every character.

Artemiisia · March 2015

havent tried it, but it sounds to me like they actually made the game world more real, if you fighting someone down town, and suddenly someone walks right between the fight, the innocent will get caught it the crossfire as well.

just need to adjust to the new system, adapt.

resistance is futile

stabbykitteh · March 2015

I got the Murderer achievement fighting in Thizzrini Arena last night. It's possible I hit the enemy while their glow was still yellow, but still shouldn't be murder, yes?

Rev Rielle · March 2015

At the moment, our spells and heavy/light attacks inparticular at times fire off in some spurious directions to say the least. I've slain animals, frogs, and yes NPCs in the midst of battle one of which was completely off my screen at the time.

This odd targeting bug that's in the game at the moment certainly adds to the frustration. So yes, be very careful for the time being whilst Zenimax hopefully fixes it, as not even tab-targeting your enemy seems to help.

Sue_D_Nim · March 2015

Rev Rielle wrote: »

At the moment, our spells and heavy/light attacks inparticular at times fire off in some spurious directions to say the least. I've slain animals, frogs, and yes NPCs in the midst of battle one of which was completely off my screen at the time.

This odd targeting bug that's in the game at the moment certainly adds to the frustration. So yes, be very careful for the time being whilst Zenimax hopefully fixes it, as not even tab-targeting your enemy seems to help.

It always amuses the heck out of me to emerge from a skirmish and find that I had fired off a nice finisher or an ultimate on ... a frog.

Dekkameron · March 2015

Sue_D_Nim wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

At the moment, our spells and heavy/light attacks inparticular at times fire off in some spurious directions to say the least. I've slain animals, frogs, and yes NPCs in the midst of battle one of which was completely off my screen at the time.

This odd targeting bug that's in the game at the moment certainly adds to the frustration. So yes, be very careful for the time being whilst Zenimax hopefully fixes it, as not even tab-targeting your enemy seems to help.

It always amuses the heck out of me to emerge from a skirmish and find that I had fired off a nice finisher or an ultimate on ... a frog.

Everytime i use snipe it seems to hit a rat standing behind the person i was targetting

Kragorn · March 2015

pema wrote: »

Guys turning it off is not the problem, when I do a quest. I had this in shadowfen, I want to do my objectives. I hit a mob and some random NPC walks in as the sword slashes the NPC turns red and you can run and be killed, as many will follow, or kill and be instand fudder for the guards.
I dont mind the fact that I can choose to attack and kill if I want, but if it's in the way of my questing then I'll have no option then to opt out of justice.

So it's mechanics that are giving an issue not the fact we don't wanna kill people.

Having disabled this option I have never been able to attack a normally-attackable NPC, it seems that if this is happening as you and the OP are describing ZOS haven't realised some of these 'in combat' NPCs aren't affected by the flag.

Seems to be you need to /bug this as it can't be as ZOS intended, I'm sure.

arqe · March 2015

Also , i do think you've helped the wrong NPC. Because you know , there are lots of quests like that across Tamriel. And when you help NPC's that are already engaged in a fight , they doesnt count as "Quest".
But that doesnt justify the result. , an Enemy NPC should not be fighting with Interactable White NPC out on the open. Some may be engaged in a fight in Cities and that is okey ( some towns / cities are overrun with Bandits ). But in quest areas ? No.

starkerealm · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

pema wrote: »

Guys turning it off is not the problem, when I do a quest. I had this in shadowfen, I want to do my objectives. I hit a mob and some random NPC walks in as the sword slashes the NPC turns red and you can run and be killed, as many will follow, or kill and be instand fudder for the guards.
I dont mind the fact that I can choose to attack and kill if I want, but if it's in the way of my questing then I'll have no option then to opt out of justice.

So it's mechanics that are giving an issue not the fact we don't wanna kill people.

Adapt and overcome.

"No witnesses! NO WITNESSES!"

Shehriazad · March 2015

I'm more annoyed by the fact that I even get reported as murderer even if there is no one around to see it.

I kill all the witnesses OR the NPC was all alone...yet I still insantly have the murderer bounty AND can only get rid of it by waiting for an eternity or paying someone.

If I kill the one and only witness....then there is no murder.

This is how TES works...so please Zenimax...correct it. Not to mention all those NPCs are still telepathic...they report crimes with their minds or something...and the NPC seem to know of this ability.

I stole from a crate, and some NPC saw me...his first words: "Too bad, you got a bounty now!" Like wth.

But if I kill an NPC that goes wild on me after I pickpocket him and no one is around to see it...I don't get a bounty for murdering..and do if there is. The system is not only inconsistent...it's not even close to what it should be.

One would think they would try to make it right this time around...guess I was wrong.

Indaghdha · March 2015

I guess I'm not understanding the whole justice thing. I was doing a quest in Shornhelm and I had to go to an NPC's house to continue the quest. Once I got to the door, the only way I could get in was to break in. So that's what I did, or tried to do.I got interupted by a nearby NPC who tried to hand my arse to me, and I quickly burned him down. Now I was labeled a murderer! Self defense I say! So I go hang out in the outlaw area until a message on screen told me I was no longer KoS. I decide to go to the bank in town, and before I knew it the guard in the bank rolled me hard.

Just a bit confused....

arqe · March 2015

Shehriazad wrote: »

I'm more annoyed by the fact that I even get reported as murderer even if there is no one around to see it.

I kill all the witnesses OR the NPC was all alone...yet I still insantly have the murderer bounty AND can only get rid of it by waiting for an eternity or paying someone.

If I kill the one and only witness....then there is no murder.

This is how TES works...so please Zenimax...correct it. Not to mention all those NPCs are still telepathic...they report crimes with their minds or something...and the NPC seem to know of this ability.

I stole from a crate, and some NPC saw me...his first words: "Too bad, you got a bounty now!" Like wth.

But if I kill an NPC that goes wild on me after I pickpocket him and no one is around to see it...I don't get a bounty for murdering..and do if there is. The system is not only inconsistent...it's not even close to what it should be.

One would think they would try to make it right this time around...guess I was wrong.

You dont get a bounty for murder ( i didnt anyway ) when your pickpocket fails and NPC attacks you then you kill him. I've killed some of those in middle of Mournhold , no one did give a s...

redwoodtreesprite2 · March 2015

Indaghdha wrote: »

I guess I'm not understanding the whole justice thing. I was doing a quest in Shornhelm and I had to go to an NPC's house to continue the quest. Once I got to the door, the only way I could get in was to break in. So that's what I did, or tried to do.I got interupted by a nearby NPC who tried to hand my arse to me, and I quickly burned him down. Now I was labeled a murderer! Self defense I say! So I go hang out in the outlaw area until a message on screen told me I was no longer KoS. I decide to go to the bank in town, and before I knew it the guard in the bank rolled me hard.

Just a bit confused....

Thing is, there should not be a locked door between the player and a quest NPC. If I reach this point on any quest, I will just give up on the quest. Not gonna steal, not gonna kill innocent NPCs, and and NOT gonna break into a house to reach a quest NPC.

I am glad this game is going BtP, as with the mess up this Justice thing is for players who don't want to do it, it certainly isn't worth subbing to. No quest other than a thief oriented one should force you to do things that give you a bounty.

Syldayan · March 2015

redwoodtreesprite2 wrote: »

Indaghdha wrote: »

I guess I'm not understanding the whole justice thing. I was doing a quest in Shornhelm and I had to go to an NPC's house to continue the quest. Once I got to the door, the only way I could get in was to break in. So that's what I did, or tried to do.I got interupted by a nearby NPC who tried to hand my arse to me, and I quickly burned him down. Now I was labeled a murderer! Self defense I say! So I go hang out in the outlaw area until a message on screen told me I was no longer KoS. I decide to go to the bank in town, and before I knew it the guard in the bank rolled me hard.

Just a bit confused....

Thing is, there should not be a locked door between the player and a quest NPC. If I reach this point on any quest, I will just give up on the quest. Not gonna steal, not gonna kill innocent NPCs, and and NOT gonna break into a house to reach a quest NPC.

I think if you see a quest related take you on a closed door it's an error and you need to made a bug report.

zeuseason · March 2015

This happened to me too, but it wasn't splash damage as I had killed the bad (red) mob and accidentally kept swinging my weapon and hit the npc who had just reset from being in combat, then BAM wanted criminal. I ran away before actually killing the npc, but still had a bounty.

Digiman · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Collateral damage.

Yes this seems the case when using AoE or cone abilities, the options should limit it but as an actual RPer I prefer the fact they affect all targets forcing me to pick a specific style.

Enodoc · March 2015

Syldayan wrote: »

redwoodtreesprite2 wrote: »

Indaghdha wrote: »

I guess I'm not understanding the whole justice thing. I was doing a quest in Shornhelm and I had to go to an NPC's house to continue the quest. Once I got to the door, the only way I could get in was to break in. So that's what I did, or tried to do.I got interupted by a nearby NPC who tried to hand my arse to me, and I quickly burned him down. Now I was labeled a murderer! Self defense I say! So I go hang out in the outlaw area until a message on screen told me I was no longer KoS. I decide to go to the bank in town, and before I knew it the guard in the bank rolled me hard.

Just a bit confused....

Thing is, there should not be a locked door between the player and a quest NPC. If I reach this point on any quest, I will just give up on the quest. Not gonna steal, not gonna kill innocent NPCs, and and NOT gonna break into a house to reach a quest NPC.

I think if you see a quest related take you on a closed door it's an error and you need to made a bug report.

It's not an error, because they specifically mention this change, and every quest it affects, in the patch notes. There were a few (non- Thieves Guild) quests in Oblivion and Morrowind that required you to break into places to continue as well, so it's a reasonable change. Besides, it only affects about 10 quests in the whole game.

Kragorn · March 2015

Indaghdha wrote: »

I guess I'm not understanding the whole justice thing. I was doing a quest in Shornhelm and I had to go to an NPC's house to continue the quest. Once I got to the door, the only way I could get in was to break in. So that's what I did, or tried to do.I got interupted by a nearby NPC who tried to hand my arse to me, and I quickly burned him down. Now I was labeled a murderer! Self defense I say! So I go hang out in the outlaw area until a message on screen told me I was no longer KoS. I decide to go to the bank in town, and before I knew it the guard in the bank rolled me hard.

Just a bit confused....

I was unhappy to find a quest in Bangkorai (or was it Alik'r, not sure) which needed a lock to be picked as part of a quest nothing to do with Justice. Luckily there was no NPC to see me but it jarred somewhat.

I presume that some dev. adding door locks to empty houses didn't bother checking if this building was part of a quest chain.

In hindsight I guess I should have /bugged it, but given how many bugs never get fixed it would probably have been a waste of time to do so.

UrQuan · March 2015

Sue_D_Nim wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

At the moment, our spells and heavy/light attacks inparticular at times fire off in some spurious directions to say the least. I've slain animals, frogs, and yes NPCs in the midst of battle one of which was completely off my screen at the time.

This odd targeting bug that's in the game at the moment certainly adds to the frustration. So yes, be very careful for the time being whilst Zenimax hopefully fixes it, as not even tab-targeting your enemy seems to help.

It always amuses the heck out of me to emerge from a skirmish and find that I had fired off a nice finisher or an ultimate on ... a frog.

This happens to me all the time... I especially seem to have trouble when I'm fighting giant spiders and trying to bash in order to interrupt the heal that they do from feeding on corpses. It seems like 3/4 of the time I end up bashing a poor little regular spider instead.

SickDuck · March 2015

Demira wrote: »

that was the first thing i did when entering the game and turned off, on all my characters to attack innocent NPC's.

As it should be by default. The option was not even mentioned in the patch or anywhere in official announcements around the release. I was lucky cause found it out on my own in PTS. If people needed to activate the related settings before use it could avoid certain level of frustration.

Also it's not too nice from the game to assume everyone is a potential murderer unless he finds an undocumented switch. I find it funny that the original settings protect you from accidental stealing by auto loot, but not from killings. Someone at Zenimax clearly has issues

New players should get a tutorial (maybe from an NPC in the refugee area) that explains how the Justice system works with all the consequences.

starkerealm · March 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Sue_D_Nim wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

At the moment, our spells and heavy/light attacks inparticular at times fire off in some spurious directions to say the least. I've slain animals, frogs, and yes NPCs in the midst of battle one of which was completely off my screen at the time.

This odd targeting bug that's in the game at the moment certainly adds to the frustration. So yes, be very careful for the time being whilst Zenimax hopefully fixes it, as not even tab-targeting your enemy seems to help.

It always amuses the heck out of me to emerge from a skirmish and find that I had fired off a nice finisher or an ultimate on ... a frog.

This happens to me all the time... I especially seem to have trouble when I'm fighting giant spiders and trying to bash in order to interrupt the heal that they do from feeding on corpses. It seems like 3/4 of the time I end up bashing a poor little regular spider instead.

Somehow using lotus fan to snuff a rat, instead of the bandit that's ripping my friend's face off is even more amusing. I am deliberately using my magical superpowers for pest control instead of murder and unjust enrichment. What is wrong with me?