Official word please.

Phinix1 · March 2015

A couple questions for ZOS support:

1) Can we get an official word if the grinders who went on a PTS-premeditated marathon exploiting the Enlightenment bugs and ended up with hundreds of CP (the equivalent of half a year ahead of everyone else under the current nerfed system) will be having their CP rolled back to a reasonably appropriate level, say 120 max?

Will we really be letting these people secure an unfair advantage through exploits just a week into the new system?

Also...

2) Can we PLEASE raise the CP through Enlightenment per day back to 4, and do what you should have done in the first place, which is put a hard cap of 5 CP per day by ANY means on the system, to stop grinders and exploiters (who will find a new exploit in a matter of days), as well as those that have no real life obligations and will play 24-7 until they fall over dead in an internet cafe somewhere from pulling even farther ahead from the rest of us?

Why was a hard cap on daily CP not considered before a nerf to Enlightenment which only punishes casual players which constitute the vast majority that don't marathon 24-7?

Thanks!

Galalin · March 2015

I agree but only because it sutits my needs... i admit i would be pissed at a roll back if i were in thier shoes

untranslated · March 2015

Do you really care about CP now when 90% of the game doesnt actually work ? Greenshade, K Roost, PVP lag drops... Id rather get wrecked by a bugged Cp player than ... not be able to actually play at all because the game just permacrashes

mhmfrogub17_ESO · March 2015

I say ban them, they knew something wasn't right but they did it anyways.

Nifty2g · March 2015

ugh, it was a bug placed on zenimax's part, they can't ban or reroll anything the players grinded or did for themselves unless they specifically exploited the system themselves, otherwise zenimax cannot reroll anything.

stop making threads about it, it's unfair and totally farfetched to even suggest it

Bashev · March 2015

I totally agree with you and would like to add another question:
ZoS can you add an option to see the CP rank of the players? Then all the exploiters can be easily distinguished.

Phinix1 · March 2015

untranslated wrote: »

Do you really care about CP now when 90% of the game doesnt actually work ? Greenshade, K Roost, PVP lag drops... Id rather get wrecked by a bugged Cp player than ... not be able to actually play at all because the game just permacrashes

Do you really care that I have this ace up my sleave? I mean I already weighted the dice, rigged the roulette table, paid off the dealer, and drugged the race horse.

Flawed logic is flawed. Of COURSE I care that cheaters have given themselves half a year's unfair advantage. The existence of other problems makes this in no way less of a tragedy.

Phinix1 · March 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

ugh, it was a bug placed on zenimax's part, they can't ban or reroll anything the players grinded or did for themselves unless they specifically exploited the system themselves, otherwise zenimax cannot reroll anything.

stop making threads about it, it's unfair and totally farfetched to even suggest it

The bank dupe bug was ZOS' fault too, but they didn't let the people that exploited it keep their 10,000 Imperial Motifs, did they. Also, many of them were banned.

Pierre.Steegb16_ESO · March 2015

First off, people that exploited that bug sure are at fault, but so is ZOS for even letting that slip through. But there is no reason to roll back anyone, just because they got a headstart.

People also didn't start out with maxed V14 characters. You had to level them too, but now you want to cap people so you can stay on par? Why would you? I only have 85 champion points myself, but i find it highly unfair to cripple players for doing what they like, which is grinding (not my cup of coffee either). What is your point? Player separation? People aren't completely equal in MMOs, why would they be in the first place? This is a pretty one-sided argument.

Nifty2g · March 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ugh, it was a bug placed on zenimax's part, they can't ban or reroll anything the players grinded or did for themselves unless they specifically exploited the system themselves, otherwise zenimax cannot reroll anything.

stop making threads about it, it's unfair and totally farfetched to even suggest it

The bank dupe bug was ZOS' fault too, but they didn't let the people that exploited it keep their 10,000 Imperial Motifs, did they. Also, many of them were banned.

um no, they chose to do that, they can't choose to have the enlightenment bug can they? there's a clear difference between the two

Phinix1 · March 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ugh, it was a bug placed on zenimax's part, they can't ban or reroll anything the players grinded or did for themselves unless they specifically exploited the system themselves, otherwise zenimax cannot reroll anything.

stop making threads about it, it's unfair and totally farfetched to even suggest it

The bank dupe bug was ZOS' fault too, but they didn't let the people that exploited it keep their 10,000 Imperial Motifs, did they. Also, many of them were banned.

um no, they chose to do that, they can't choose to have the enlightenment bug can they? there's a clear difference between the two

There is no difference. They knew about the bugs on the PTS, and intentionally scheduled a 3-day no-sleep grind marathon to exploit it when it went live. Then they came on the forums here and elsewhere bragging about it.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

It is incumbent upon ZOS to correct their bug, regardless of whether the grinders claim they knew about it. In this case correcting the bug would also involve rolling back to a maximum appropriate CP cap for the first week.

Nifty2g · March 2015

So you're telling me that if someone gets the enlightenment bug that they shouldn't play until it's fixed?
You seem to miss the point between something they are exploiting and a bug that zenimax have in their system, once you comprehend that you will realise zenimax will not reroll anyones champion points

Phinix1 · March 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

So you're telling me that if someone gets the enlightenment bug that they shouldn't play until it's fixed?
You seem to miss the point between something they are exploiting and a bug that zenimax have in their system, once you comprehend that you will realise zenimax will not reroll anyones champion points

No, I am saying they should not expect to keep the CP they should never have received in the first place.

They should be rolled back to the correct number of CP they should have received for the time they spent grinding if the bug were not in effect.

What I am advocating is simply fixing the bug, AND its imbalancing effects.

Ask yourself this. If someone "accidentally" made several copies of an Imperial motif back with the bank dupe bug was happening, should they be allowed to keep them?

No. Of course not. Same thing. It is simply fixing the bug.

Xelphos · March 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ugh, it was a bug placed on zenimax's part, they can't ban or reroll anything the players grinded or did for themselves unless they specifically exploited the system themselves, otherwise zenimax cannot reroll anything.

stop making threads about it, it's unfair and totally farfetched to even suggest it

The bank dupe bug was ZOS' fault too, but they didn't let the people that exploited it keep their 10,000 Imperial Motifs, did they. Also, many of them were banned.

Most of the people who did it never got rolled back or banned. I still know people who still to this day have mule chars full of gold mats, and what not.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

Pierre.Steegb16_ESO wrote: »

First off, people that exploited that bug sure are at fault, but so is ZOS for even letting that slip through. But there is no reason to roll back anyone, just because they got a headstart.

People also didn't start out with maxed V14 characters. You had to level them too, but now you want to cap people so you can stay on par? Why would you? I only have 85 champion points myself, but i find it highly unfair to cripple players for doing what they like, which is grinding (not my cup of coffee either). What is your point? Player separation? People aren't completely equal in MMOs, why would they be in the first place? This is a pretty one-sided argument.

And truer words were never spoken. Minus the exploiting part, that is. However, I'd have a hard time blaming people who got stuck with permanent enlightenment for playing, honestly, given there was no action taken on their part to cause it and they had no means to correct it that I know of, either. I guess you could argue they should have logged out and not played until they saw patch notes saying it was fixed, but that wouldn't have been fair either.

Phinix1 · March 2015

Xelphos wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ugh, it was a bug placed on zenimax's part, they can't ban or reroll anything the players grinded or did for themselves unless they specifically exploited the system themselves, otherwise zenimax cannot reroll anything.

stop making threads about it, it's unfair and totally farfetched to even suggest it

The bank dupe bug was ZOS' fault too, but they didn't let the people that exploited it keep their 10,000 Imperial Motifs, did they. Also, many of them were banned.

Most of the people who did it never got rolled back or banned. I still know people who still to this day have mule chars full of gold mats, and what not.

I have mule characters full of gold mats, but not from duping, from playing since launch with 5 separate maxed out hireling characters. But that is neither here nor there.

After the bank dupe bug, there WAS an official hotfix patch to remove all duped items from the game. People that are telling you they somehow dodged the scripts of that system and got to keep their ill-gotten gains are probably trolling you just for kicks.

The point is, ZOS DID roll it back. They DID create a patch to remove the incorrectly awarded items from the game.

Just as they should create a patch to remove the incorrectly earned CP from the game.

To be fair, I have been saying they should only do this for people with over 110-120 CP. That would give the people that spent days grinding at least a little bit of the unfair advantage they so desperately crave.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

To be fair, I have been saying they should only do this for people with over 110-120 CP. That would give the people that spent days grinding at least a little bit of the unfair advantage they so desperately crave.

Playing the game to progress in the game is an "unfair advantage"?

firstdecan · March 2015

Personally, I'm glad that people exploited the CP system. It forces ZoS to address the flaws and the imbalances sooner rather than later. Whatever advantages these players have now, they would have in a few months anyway. The problem is inherent to the ill conceived system. Taking away player's CPs, whether those gains were by exploit or not, is just kicking the can down the road.

@AlienDiplomat - I agree with you that "Casuals" should be able to earn a decent amount of CP. At the intended 1 CP per day, this is a system designed to outlast the lifespan of the game. I think ZoS has overestimated the loyalty of the "fan base" in creating this system. It gives people something to earn for years and years of gameplay which is good for someone that intends to play for years. If the game is not fun to play in the short term, if it feels like it will take years to get to the content in the game you actually enjoy, players will not stick around.

Phinix1 · March 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

To be fair, I have been saying they should only do this for people with over 110-120 CP. That would give the people that spent days grinding at least a little bit of the unfair advantage they so desperately crave.

Playing the game to progress in the game is an "unfair advantage"?

Do you even read threads, bro?

This is about people having received far more CP per grind XP than was intended by the system due to a confirmed Enlightenment bug (or set of bugs, really).

One more time, it is about removing the CP that were gained inappropriately in order to fully fix the bug.

Simple as that.

pronkg · March 2015

They can easily calculate the max possible CP gain since patch release and roll everyone back to that max CP count.

And they should. 120CP is acceptable (still a ***) 200+ is unacceptable really even exploiters should admit

JaJaLuka · March 2015

Putting a hard cap on the amount of CP you can earn in a day puts the people who have been negatively affected by the enlightenment bugs in an even worse situation because they will NEVER be able to catch up. The grinders will get their max CP every day as will the people who didn't exploit, meaning that there will be a constant gap that never gets smaller.

TehMagnus · March 2015

Agreed, ban them. I made a poll about what ZOS should do about the cheaters but it was sunk (aka new posts don't bring it back to top of the list) without any notice by forum moderators.

We need official response from ZOS about how they plan to deal with cheaters, else there's really no point continuing to play this game.

Dreamo84 · March 2015

I dunno, the faster the hardcore elite grinder crowd get to max CP the sooner we can all get over it and they can move on to another MMO to consume.

TehMagnus · March 2015

Dreamo84 wrote: »

I dunno, the faster the hardcore elite grinder crowd get to max CP the sooner we can all get over it and they can move on to another MMO to consume.

Trust me, if there was a better option, most of us would have quit before the CS was implemented. Sadly Black Desert Beta isn't available in EU yet.

Bfish22090 · March 2015

How is being englightened a whole day consider cheating?
Yes if it is a bug the PLAYER is causing that is considered cheated and dealt with accordingly, banning, cp rollback, etc.
However I have guild mates who were enlightened for an extended period of time. That was not their fault, why should they be punished?
Should they immediately stop playing when they realized they've been enlightened for too long? How long is too long? Since I haven't heard a statement on how long you should stay enlightened for, how much xp, cp, etc.
A rollback wouldn't be fair since some people had cadwells silver / gold quests they were waiting to turn in before 1.6 dropped and they can't redo them.
An official statement would be good on this matter and I feel they should set a CP ceiling for a certain amount of time.

Rammi · March 2015

what an utterly horrid implementation of a system!!

This is a total joke, I'm not even sure anymore what to do and if i can keep playing as I simply will not be competitive anymore with the time i can play.

mhmfrogub17_ESO · March 2015

Most Bugs problems that can be exploited in any game is the fault of the gaming company but just because it's there doesn't give a person the right to use it.

In fact, it's every honest gamers responsibility to report any bugs or problems in a game. It's also our responsibility as gamers not to use exploits of any kind especially those that take advantage of bugs or other problems in the game.

The choice to do right or wrong lies with the individual, nobody can force you to do something no matter what. Each choice we make have pros and cons to them, but the fact still remains that what we chose is our choice alone.

For these reasons is why I say that anyone that abused this or any other problem should be banned. It was their choice and nobody forced them to make it.

Elsonso · March 2015

1. They will not ban anyone. At least, they will not do any permanent bans. There needs to be clear intent to exploit and I am not sure that it is possible to establish this.

2. They should remove excess CP from anyone who was in a position to use this exploit who has more than what they expect for 6 days of game play. I doubt they will do this, even though leaving it in the game seriously erodes the long term nature of the Champion System. There is one good reason to leave them in the game. They have a list of players who can show them where the Champion System will be in 6 months and use that to see what is going to happen when new players enter into a more mature Champion System. If they have the ability to monitor individual players, they can see how those players are using the Champion System and whether they dominate over entry-level players that come into the game on March 17.

3. Unless someone complains about action taken against them, and is wise enough to discuss it in some other venue, we will never know what ZOS does to players due to this. They will simply not say because it breaks their own rules. The moderators would start moderating each other and it would escalate into a full on moderator war.

mhmfrogub17_ESO · March 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

1. They will not ban anyone. At least, they will not do any permanent bans. There needs to be clear intent to exploit and I am not sure that it is possible to establish this.

If you were to get 10 points a day I could see a possibility of it not being considered intent, getting 50 or more a day and even getting maxed out on CP points in a week is obvious intent.

Armitas · March 2015

I think the only way a roll back could work is if they were somehow able to determine how long a player had more enlightenment than they should have had. Someone who grinded skyreach for 3 days straight with non bugged enlightenment should not be rolled back. They would be irate if they were. If they grinded for 3 days straight with bugged enlightenment they should have their bonus xp calculated from the bug and have the bugged bonus xp removed with the normal grinded xp intact. That way the work they did remains intact.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

mhmfrogub17_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

1. They will not ban anyone. At least, they will not do any permanent bans. There needs to be clear intent to exploit and I am not sure that it is possible to establish this.

If you were to get 10 points a day I could see a possibility of it not being considered intent, getting 50 or more a day and even getting maxed out on CP points in a week is obvious intent.

That hypothetical isn't even possible with bugged enlightenment, anyway.