Vet XP is broken now, math included

TheShadowScout · March 2015

At the current 1M XP per V rank, my alts gain about 1 - 1.2 veteran ranks per map, all solo questing done. Much neater then back in the 1.44M days, when I had to make up the rest in cyrodil...

Where is the issue again? Sounds like it works fine to me...

Zheg · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

This is entirely wrong math.

1. Only smaller quests grant 5k XP. More involved quests grant upwards of 10-20k.
2. You're ignoring exploration, world boss, public dungeons, kills, etc. XP.
3. You clearly haven't actually put your math to the test. I can tell you that I'm easily outleveling content on my fresh VR templar. Completing all content in a zone grants well over 1,000,000 XP.

Maybe re-read the posts? Our guild did every world boss in all of the first alliance zones. Exploration xp has always been minimal, but if you insist, I completed the entire first map in the cadwell's silver, in addition to the starting zone, in addition to whatever exploration I got from running around doing the bosses and dolmens in the next 4 zones, and I'm still V1. Public dungeons really only give two quests worth of xp as the xp from kills has been almost nothing ever since people were grinding there in beta.

And unless you missed it, main quests are giving me 5k xp. The highest I ever got was 12 or 16k, once, and I think that was for completing upper craglorn.

Anyone posting that xp is fine for them, please include your alliance as what may be fine for you, might not be fine for DC players.

And as an aside, if it's not clear, the guild event that I ran on my templar killing all dolmens and world bosses is something I have done on three other characters pre-1.6 and always netted about 2 vet levels not including solo dungeons. Doing the SAME thing again on my v1 temp post-1.6 netted me about 0.25 vet levels.

Soulshine · March 2015

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Yep, back in the day questing though a zone might get you on the order of 1.2 vet ranks. Now maybe .6 or so. That was my experience today. The side effect of all the mob XP nerfs has been that overall XP gain has become garbage because almost all of the XP gain from questing was mob XP. The obvious solution to this and to the problem of people grinding for XP instead of completing content is to make quest turn in XP massive relative to mobs. Instead mob XP is continually nerfed and quest XP never buffed.

By the way, Sanctum Ophidia for an hour and a half today, up until the serpent boss yielded 3k xp total. How much for the complete? Well, it just so happens I had forgotten to turn in a previous runs complete when I entered today so I can tell you it is 11k. Lol, ~14k XP total for the hardest trial in the game.

This stuff needed to be fixed before 1.6 when live. We now have folks with 130 CP at least and no really good options for getting XP at least in the relm of "legitimate play." God save the few new players foolish enough to wander in here with 0 CP. Unless they find somebody's super secret stealth grinding spot they are so screwed because you know content isn't going to get the job done.

Between all the other issues reported and ^^^this? I think I am done for the time being. I recently just joined a new guild to see about getting back to grouping with more like minded people now that 1.6 is finally live -- but I have to say this is the single most pathetic thing regarding XP gain in the game, let alone the constant nerfing of XP across the board.

People gripe repeatedly that grinding is exploiting. It's crud like this that makes people look for grinding opportunities in the first place if there are no beneficial rewards from doing the content that they like to play most. How in god's name do they expect people to level by playing the game if this is the situation??? XP pot sales?

I leveled to cap in the original VR10 last summer before they nerfed the mobs. I remember how we were stuck for weeks with Caldwell's being broken. Then they raised cap from 10 to 12 and then to 14. Each time they continued to nerf XP because people complained that grinders were exploiting the game. I personally completed every single quest in the game to date, all those for my faction and all of Caldwell's SIlver/Gold, dungeons, you name it...done. The only thing I have not wracked up in my 10K+ achievements is PvP rank since I am a PvE player and my preference for end game is raiding/grouping PvE.

I have alts I was considering taking through VR to help my main get more CPs faster. With this? There is just no point in even playing.

Roechacca · March 2015

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

I did the majority of quests in Alik'r and the previous zones, and I was only like Veteran 4.5 when I entered Bangkorai.

I am suspicious, it does seem broken. Legitimately broken, not "broken".

I can't grind mobs anymore, and Cyrodiil quests only give maybe 30-60k a day (depending on how many towns I can go to without the enemy faction kicking my ass), so what is someone supposed to do?

Role play , cook or make stuff . Give up .

I choose to give up until they fix xp .

Rumba1 · March 2015

Gentlemen,
my experience seems quite different from yours regarding xp. Let me explain:

1 week before 1.6 dropped I had 3 vet1 Templars defeat Molag Bal , all on the same day.

Each Templar is in a different alliance, and except for racial passives, every Templar is equipped, attribute, and skill bar, and now champion point allocation, exactly alike.

So far I have pushed each Templar through the first zone of Cadwells Silver, and one Templar through the second zone (Grahtwood).

All of my Templars are having trouble being OVERLEVELED. My DC Templar is now pushing 3.5 going into Greenshade, a level vet3 zone. I am skipping content on this one to avoid being too overleveled. I gained 4 cp on this one yesterday, in about 8 hours of actual questing (not counting banking, crafting and such non-productive time).

So all of my Templars seem to be experiencing the same sort of xp gain regardless of alliance, or zone.

Why is my experience so different from yours? I don't know. I do seem to be 'enlightened' almost all the time.

Possible differences:
1) I'm a subscriber (call me a fool, I know)
2) I have 4 vet level toons, so 3 are resting all the time. (does this even make a difference?)
3) I'm an OCD completionista
4) I kill everything, I refuse, for example, to wear costumes in the costume quests.

Skjoldur · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

This is entirely wrong math.

1. Only smaller quests grant 5k XP. More involved quests grant upwards of 10-20k.
2. You're ignoring exploration, world boss, public dungeons, kills, etc. XP.
3. You clearly haven't actually put your math to the test. I can tell you that I'm easily outleveling content on my fresh VR templar. Completing all content in a zone grants well over 1,000,000 XP.

1. agree
2. agree
3. not sure: it seems to be lower than 1 mio XP at the moment, but I have to finish the current zone be sure

And I am certainly not outleveling the content: I started in Auridon with 30-40% of VR1 and got into the 3rd area with 150k missing to reach VR3. And I did everything there is to do in the first two zones

glak · March 2015

When overleveled at a v14 in v6 zone, overland XP seems OK but solo dungeon XP in the same zone is lowered again by the same division.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

Zheg wrote: »

I think this is just an oversight on their part. They were so focused on trying to keep CP farming in check that they didn't look at how the nerfed numbers would affect people actually trying to level veteran ranks. I'm pretty sure they said with 1.6 that getting veteran ranks should be EASIER. The fact that doing the guild activity on my alt today netted me 1/3 of a veteran level, whereas doing the same thing a few months ago netted me about 3 full levels tells me they just didn't think through the xp nerfs.

This... questing being the only decent xp source isn't going to cut it for the game. PVP, world objectives, group dungeons and delves, trials, etc. all need to be boosted up to exceed questing, and grinding should match it. The reason I say the others should be above it are because questing is a very easy activity and easy to do solo any time you feel like working on it, while the others are group-based and/or skill-based gameplay facets of ESO.

For the record I was also on the run with @Zheg and saw the same thing. I tried bringing both a VR1 sorc and a VR7 sorc and both only got ~4800 veteran points per dolmen, world boss, etc. completed even all the way up to Reaper's March. This is probably an oversight on that part, but xp parity across gameplay in general is very imbalanced at this time.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

2. You're ignoring exploration, world boss, public dungeons, kills, etc. XP.

The only applicable point here is number 2, which is EXACTLY what the original post was about!

booksmcread · March 2015

Some friends and I did the majority of the quests in Lower Craglorn over the weekend, making sure to kill extra mobs along the way for additional xp and we only gained half a VR level. There is no way you can go from VR10-12 in Lower Craglorn doing all the overland content and delves at the moment. Something seems very off.

phreatophile · March 2015

Zheg wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Of course it make sense for mobs in the highest lvl zone to give the worst XP. facepalm

As a VR 14, I ought not get better XP from a VR10 mob than a VR11-VR14. That is just simple logic.

The problem in Craglorn is the number of Mobs. It's easy to get pretty descent XP there, or would be if the Mobs gave appropriate XP for their level. But the OP forum whining wins again.

I guess I see CP and vet XP as two separate issues here. ZOS is trying to keep everyone from earning CP too quickly and doing it heavy handed at the moment, but everything I've tried (on a V1 and a V12 character) seems to be broken for xp compared to what it used to give. It's not like this is my first rodeo, I've got 4 characters in the vet ranks, and 3 at v12 or above - I've done this before. Doing it on 1.6 with my templar it's painfully obvious something is off.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can you please look into veteran xp?

I see them as essentially the same since you earn vet XP to get CP. I've got a pair of VR14's and a couple low VR Alts too. I agree, across the board, the XP rewards are badly borked, I gave an example. Here's two more. It's also pretty inexcusable how little XP you get in PvP. I can't remember the last time I got any completion xp for a Dolmens in VR zone since I'm usually a level or two over-leveled.

Zheg · March 2015

The xp rewards in pvp has been complained about over and over for months. They don't seem to want to budge on that.

Hypertionb14_ESO · March 2015

i can confirm this.

clearing an entire zone 100% no longer is about 120% of a level at vet, which it at least was on launch..

for one of my characters, it barely added up to 60-70%, it was much better before they changed the xp per level to 1mil, and its definitly worse now with the added changes to xp for Camp points.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

Has been since they converted from Veteran Points. So far they've made no move to fix it.

Seraphyel · March 2015

VR has always been the worst part of the game and I am glad to see they didn't improve it for "new" players coming into ESO in 1 week.

Zenimax learned nothing in the last year.

Ysne58 · March 2015

I'm pretty sure they nerfed vet exp gain in 1.6.5. I don't think they did anything with pre vet exp so I'll at least be starting over leveled when my next char reaches vet level.

My current one is still vr 6 in a vr 6 zone and only because she was overleveled when I started Cadwell's Silver.

billcage · March 2015

I have finished 38 quests ,cleared 6 caves and a few dolmens at Grahtwood .XP bar is still on % 63. I had started to Grahtwood when i have hit vr2 level.For veteran zones leveling progress is very slow i think.

By this way, i get 400-450 xp for each killing every mobs but some of those gives 250-300 xp.

ItsRejectz · March 2015

XP Potions $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ommamar · March 2015

Yup it is slow but so what I am not even noticing as I focus more on grinding out CP.

billcage · March 2015

When i kill a mob , i can get % 0,04 xp of each veteran level.XP potions will increase %10 of this amount . This is nothing man ...

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Muizer · March 2015

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm gaining about 1 1/4 vet levens per zone.

Yep. If you do everything on the map and kill all the mobs the game puts in your path that's about right. I think it does drop off a bit. My level 6 char has that ratio on average, but I didn't gain quite as much over the past few zones.

f047ys3v3n · March 2015

Ommamar wrote: »

Yup it is slow but so what I am not even noticing as I focus more on grinding out CP.

You will notice when you finish the content though. You will think "time for some endgame trials." But you will be at least 4 levels shy of being able to do them. It is true that a questing RP'r has little reason to care about level or XP because all questing content can be done by a V1 but the game shouldn't block other activities from you or poorly serve players of other play styles.

I might add that I too love questing. The stories dialog and lore are generally the best aspect of this game. It is a great single player game but things like balance and progression need a lot of work to become even an average MMO.

Kragorn · March 2015

I completed my first 'Gold' over the weekend, the character had hit VR1 months ago but I'd never done anything in the VR1 zone.

After doing everything doable solo (all 'master' achievements for both factions, as well as the excess quests when there are some), all Dolmens in AD (a couple or few left in DC) and a couple or so of group delves (group delves are pretty deserted, the few I got were 'high levels' competing achievements I would imagine.), I ended up 250k short of VR10, I had to grind the rest: I entered the last 4 VR zones under-level, I started the VR10 level still at VR8!.

Clearly progress on this character is at an end.

No one seems to be running Craglorn any more except speedruns for Leaderboards or phat lewt farming. I took my character all round the zone simply get get exploration XP and saw no one except the occasional farmer. Apart from the very occasional /shout for a Trial the silence was deafening.

Craglorn needs to be made into a non-group-only zone like all the rest, if it had a purpose for forced-grouping that clearly died out and now it's a wilderness as far as players are concerned.

SexyVette07 · March 2015

I think you guys are expecting too much of ZOS. I mean, balancing xp and cp seperately? That'll take a massive system overhaul.

/sarcasm

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · March 2015

Paulington wrote: »

What? You claim Vereran XP is "broken" but refuse to actually put in the time to prove it and instead make random assumptions of XP given by the things that give the least overall XP, multiply them together to produce a meaningless number and proclaim your victory over the "broken" system and demand change? Right.

I for one have done almost all the quests in the game and can tell you doing all quests, dolmens, delves, skyshards, world bosses, areas of interest, wayshrines and anything else that gives XP along with a lot of mob killing nets you 1,200,000 - 1,500,000 XP per "Cadwell's Almanac" zone and I feel this is bang on correct and means you start out levelling content around VR5-6!

If you want to demand change and tell others what to do, you should at least be willing to put the time and effort in to produce a sturdy and coherent argument, at least that way you look a little less silly when shown to be wrong.

^ This. This game doles out xp like its candy. I outlevel content just doing the main quest line its kinda silly, they need to greatly reduce xp given or increase the amount of xp it takes to lvl a vet. Or do away with all vet lvls but even then lvling 1-5 is SO fast its senseless. Before you even get out of CH you are lvl 3 rofl.

The first mob you kill gives you a level.

Seraphyel · March 2015

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

What? You claim Vereran XP is "broken" but refuse to actually put in the time to prove it and instead make random assumptions of XP given by the things that give the least overall XP, multiply them together to produce a meaningless number and proclaim your victory over the "broken" system and demand change? Right.

I for one have done almost all the quests in the game and can tell you doing all quests, dolmens, delves, skyshards, world bosses, areas of interest, wayshrines and anything else that gives XP along with a lot of mob killing nets you 1,200,000 - 1,500,000 XP per "Cadwell's Almanac" zone and I feel this is bang on correct and means you start out levelling content around VR5-6!

If you want to demand change and tell others what to do, you should at least be willing to put the time and effort in to produce a sturdy and coherent argument, at least that way you look a little less silly when shown to be wrong.

^ This. This game doles out xp like its candy. I outlevel content just doing the main quest line its kinda silly, they need to greatly reduce xp given or increase the amount of xp it takes to lvl a vet. Or do away with all vet lvls but even then lvling 1-5 is SO fast its senseless. Before you even get out of CH you are lvl 3 rofl.

The first mob you kill gives you a level.

Maybe some players don't want to do the quests. There must be alternative ways for leveling, it's horrible to do those boring and dull quests again and again. I already finished all three faction story lines and I don't want to do them again, but I have to do it just to get the EP.

KBKB · March 2015

Pretty sure ZOS intended to NOT give 1VR/1VRzone I completely get why too.

Skjoldur · March 2015

Muizer wrote: »

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm gaining about 1 1/4 vet levens per zone.

Yep. If you do everything on the map and kill all the mobs the game puts in your path that's about right. I think it does drop off a bit. My level 6 char has that ratio on average, but I didn't gain quite as much over the past few zones.

I don't think, this is true anymore. I am doing everything there is and I am killing everything in my path... still not enough.

jdroebuckb16_ESO · March 2015

From what I can tell... If you are doing quests in a hub under your vr level you get 4-5k for short quests, 8-9k for longer non cadwell quests and 14-16k for cadwells (the main ones, not the adjoining quests).

If you do quests in a hub your vr level or above you get 6-8k for mini quests, 14-16k for longer non cadwell and 22-25k for cadwells.

Just approaching last AD zone as VR11 and this has been consistent through the zones. I've cleared everything in every zone and will probably leave cadwells at vr12. If I'm honest I can probably account for two VR levels with PVP so the whole of cadwell probably got me 10 VR levels...which as the game started with 10 levels I'm guessing is about on point for their progression system.

Skjoldur · March 2015

jdroebuckb16_ESO wrote: »

From what I can tell... If you are doing quests in a hub under your vr level you get 4-5k for short quests, 8-9k for longer non cadwell quests and 14-16k for cadwells (the main ones, not the adjoining quests).

If you do quests in a hub your vr level or above you get 6-8k for mini quests, 14-16k for longer non cadwell and 22-25k for cadwells.

Just approaching last AD zone as VR11 and this has been consistent through the zones. I've cleared everything in every zone and will probably leave cadwells at vr12. If I'm honest I can probably account for two VR levels with PVP so the whole of cadwell probably got me 10 VR levels...which as the game started with 10 levels I'm guessing is about on point for their progression system.

You did most of it before the patch. My experience now, after the patch, is different.

jdroebuckb16_ESO · March 2015

Did the last two zones in AD post 1.6 and quest n mob experience remained the same. No idea then why you are seeing such massive differences.