If they completely nerf grinding in the ground... They are doing more harm than good!
Khaldar
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Look this CP system is causing way more issues than it should. And now the "Questers" with their 70 CP want to nerf all grinding. The issue is not grinding, the issue is the Enlightenment bug where people are staying enlightened. Nerfing grinding is not going to solve the Enlightenment problem.
I'll say I'm a grinder, but not the hardcore grinder that some are. I only have 79 CP due to not going all out and exploiting CP gains like many have done. But I can only Grind Out So Many Cadwell Quests before I want to pluck my eyes out of my head. Cadwell's Quests are more of a grind than grinding to me. As I have said before, I quit after the first month because I ran into the vet questing system and thought "No Way! See ya."
ZOS needs to give players options or they will alienate many of their players. By forcing players who like to play alts to do all the quests to gain Vet XP and CP is absolutely ridiculous. Let players play the way they want. We all knew people would be far ahead of the casuals in CP, but nerfing a part of the game WITHOUT buffing others is moronic and shortsighted.
If you are going to FORCE players to play the long freaking quests over and over and over and over and over again, then give them other options before you bore them to death:
- Increase PvXP
- Increase PvE Quest XP
- Increase/Add Dolmen XP, add more waves and make closing them mean more
- Increase Trials/Dungeon XP
There are so many things they could do to make everyone happy, but everyone is so fixated on the grinders that other parts of the game are getting blown up before another path is created.
@ZOS_GinaBruno And to bring things inline they should also look at anyone with more than 100 CP and see how many of those were earned with improper enlightenment gains. They should bring those players back inline because they gained something they shouldn't have. It's just like if the bank makes a large error in your favor for a few million dollars. Yes you took time to deposit the check, but the check was only good for $10,000. So the bank has every right to come back and get their money that you didn't earn. So should ZOS with their CP.
Edited by Khaldar on March 8, 2015 4:53PM I'll say I'm a grinder, but not the hardcore grinder that some are. I only have 79 CP due to not going all out and exploiting CP gains like many have done. But I can only Grind Out So Many Cadwell Quests before I want to pluck my eyes out of my head. Cadwell's Quests are more of a grind than grinding to me. As I have said before, I quit after the first month because I ran into the vet questing system and thought "No Way! See ya."
ZOS needs to give players options or they will alienate many of their players. By forcing players who like to play alts to do all the quests to gain Vet XP and CP is absolutely ridiculous. Let players play the way they want. We all knew people would be far ahead of the casuals in CP, but nerfing a part of the game WITHOUT buffing others is moronic and shortsighted.
If you are going to FORCE players to play the long freaking quests over and over and over and over and over again, then give them other options before you bore them to death:
- Increase PvXP
- Increase PvE Quest XP
- Increase/Add Dolmen XP, add more waves and make closing them mean more
- Increase Trials/Dungeon XP
There are so many things they could do to make everyone happy, but everyone is so fixated on the grinders that other parts of the game are getting blown up before another path is created.
@ZOS_GinaBruno And to bring things inline they should also look at anyone with more than 100 CP and see how many of those were earned with improper enlightenment gains. They should bring those players back inline because they gained something they shouldn't have. It's just like if the bank makes a large error in your favor for a few million dollars. Yes you took time to deposit the check, but the check was only good for $10,000. So the bank has every right to come back and get their money that you didn't earn. So should ZOS with their CP.
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Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like grinding -- within limits. It's a nice way to relax for an hour or two after a long day. Sometimes, mindless and rewarding is exactly what I'm after
Grinding should stay. It just can't be the only good option.Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade3 -
Khaldar✭✭✭I like grinding -- within limits. It's a nice way to relax for an hour or two after a long day. Sometimes, mindless and rewarding is exactly what I'm after
Grinding should stay. It just can't be the only good option.
I'm the same. I like to zone out when I grind. It relaxes me. I have an extremely stressful medical job and my release is grinding alts. The quests are like being forced to watch the same movie over again by yourself. Grinding seems more like an unplugging for me.Edited by Khaldar on March 8, 2015 4:22PM2 -
Valymer✭✭✭✭✭I like grinding -- within limits. It's a nice way to relax for an hour or two after a long day. Sometimes, mindless and rewarding is exactly what I'm after
Grinding should stay. It just can't be the only good option.
Absolutely not. Your play style differs from mine, and is therefore not allowed. Please conform to my worldview immediately.7 -
Newk✭✭The grind in general in this game is hurting ESO. I have friends that are interested in rejoining, but they are turned off by the grind from VR1-14. EXP gains in VR zones, needs to be seriously increased, or completely removed soon (I know they have plans).
And then there is this CP grind, the pace is WAY too slow. It's gonna take years before anyone reaches 3600 points without some sort of exploit (grinding good spots is not exploiting, feck off).
I enjoy being efficient with my time, so whatever the best method of getting CP, I will likely try to pursue. The only question is if ZOS wants this to be grinding mobs, doing quests, or doing content. Dungeons, PvP, Raids etc, should be the BEST way to get CP, but grinding should not be far behind, some people enjoy playing alone, and sometimes everyone enjoys playing alone a bit.
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AshySamurai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Till grind provide more advantage than normal" play - it should be nerfed. I don't saying that it should be nerfed into the ground. No, sir. Grind should be on par with questing and exploring. Guys with over 250 CP proved that now grind is totally OP. With nerfing it ZOS just brings more variety into game.Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!2 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I like grinding -- within limits. It's a nice way to relax for an hour or two after a long day. Sometimes, mindless and rewarding is exactly what I'm after
Grinding should stay. It just can't be the only good option.
This. It's great to do while watching some news, or just chilling out to some music and relaxing... a nice little non-incredibly-demanding activity that's still fun for awhile. I want them to make other things be good xp too such as dolmens/bosses, 4-man dungeons, dragonstar arena (& vet), trials, and especially pvp in cyrodiil, of course, though.I like grinding -- within limits. It's a nice way to relax for an hour or two after a long day. Sometimes, mindless and rewarding is exactly what I'm after
Grinding should stay. It just can't be the only good option.
Absolutely not. Your play style differs from mine, and is therefore not allowed. Please conform to my worldview immediately.
Indeed, sir. Indeed.
-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
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-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
Khaldar✭✭✭AshySamurai wrote: »Till grind provide more advantage than normal" play - it should be nerfed. I don't saying that it should be nerfed into the ground. No, sir. Grind should be on par with questing and exploring. Guys with over 250 CP proved that now grind is totally OP. With nerfing it ZOS just brings more variety into game.
Grinding isn't what caused that... The enlightenment system did. Punishing others because they patched in a broken concept is absurd. They should correct anyone over 100 CP if they got them from the bonus enlightenment bug.Edited by Khaldar on March 8, 2015 4:43PM4 -
Scotia✭✭✭I have no issue with grinding, just limit the amount of CP you can obtain with it, as opposed to doing something that gives you a quest. IMO its better to do repeatable quests like 4 of them to get 2 CP a day and let the grinders, grind out EXP with max CP cap of 2. Problem solved.
Grinding isnt the issue of whether you like it or not, you will not grind if there is nothing to grind for.
I would add 1 cp for each daily dungeon completed, and 1 cp for turning in bounties in Cyrodiil.1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Grinding isn't nerfed into the ground. The NPCs you were grinding just give the same amount of xp as the other NPCs in the game now. You can still grind them.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Khaldar✭✭✭I have no issue with grinding, just limit the amount of CP you can obtain with it, as opposed to doing something that gives you a quest. IMO its better to do repeatable quests like 4 of them to get 2 CP a day and let the grinders, grind out EXP with max CP cap of 2. Problem solved.
Grinding isnt the issue of whether you like it or not, you will not grind if there is nothing to grind for.
I would add 1 cp for each daily dungeon completed, and 1 cp for turning in bounties in Cyrodiil.
I do like the idea of rewarding 1 full CP for activities outside of quests. Quest XP sucks. I would agree with a max cap of 4 CP per day. That would be 3 regular CP and 1 enlightened. Only 2 per day would take 6 months of daily playing to get 360 CP. That is a little low considering most can't play everyday.
Edited by Khaldar on March 8, 2015 4:50PM0 -
deathmasterl_ESO✭✭✭Grinds where oh hey lets kills this 1 boss over and over and over again because it gives the highest amount of XP shouldn't be possible, grinds where oh hey lets run through this dungeon/area kill everything in a certain amount of time 10-15mins, get the same amount of xp as the previous boss should be fine as you're actually doing more work then just sitting in a circle or on a rock or something just insta gibbing something in less then a 1 minute.
That's besides the fact that XP should be increased in general around the game, also not counting the bug's that have let people gain high amount of CP's already. If anything as a last resort add in a CP limit you can earn per day of idk 10 CP's? even at 10 it would still take a year to fully max out, if you were able to get the full 3600.Saevus Messor Imperial Dragonknight Vr14 Aldmeri Dominion
Talia Spiritus Imperial Nightblade Lv17 Aldmeri Dominion
Naomi Athael Altmer Sorcerer Lv8 Aldmeri Dominion
Nyanta Raimanni Khajiit Templar Lv4 Aldmeri Dominion
Sina Nightwind Bosmer Dragonknight Lv4 Aldmeri Dominion
Leader of the 1st Infiltration and Scouting Division
Master Weapon and Armor Crafter1 -
Locke_ESO✭✭✭Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »And then there is this CP grind, the pace is WAY too slow. It's gonna take years before anyone reaches 3600 points
I actually think you are missing the point of the Champion system. This is their entire end game progression model so when VR's disappear everyone should be in an almost perpetual state of slowly acquiring Champion Points while they work through their new expansion zones over the next few years. If 3600 points is the cap amount then that is one thousand million four hundred forty million xp which in theory is 1440 veteran ranks. Even with Enlightenment & eventually 10% extra xp it's pretty clear they don't expect the majority of their players to ever have everything (which is also why there are diminishing returns on each point to keep the power gap down).
If they made it short enough to complete for any but the most hardcore playtime players within even a year or so then people would be back asking for more end game progression. While I am sure there will be people who will log on and get 8+ points a day every day for the next year and a half most of us will never finish it.
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NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭After you have done all the quests once then everything in this game is a freaking grind. At least w/ VR14 the progression capped and you only had to level individual skills and morphs. Now they have taken a chunk of the power you previously gained then jammed it into a seemingly never ending Champion System. You have to re-earn your previous strength and then earn more points to grow past it. On one hand it is nice to keep progressing, on the other it is complete crap to have to do it with ZERO new content that provides you XP to earn CP. So, those who have been playing for months and nearly a year, played the game the way they designed it completing all quests, are left with grinding while XP gets gutted in every way. Level an alt...GRIND. Repeat dungeons? GRIND. Repeat Craglorn quests, dungeons, delves, trials...GRIND. Repeat Cyrodiil quests & dailies? GRIND. God forbid you want to run around in a freaking circle killing mobs because that is not the kind of grind ZOS wants you to do."it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor1 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »Grinding isn't nerfed into the ground. The NPCs you were grinding just give the same amount of xp as the other NPCs in the game now. You can still grind them.
Not really. VR11-14 enemies only gives you about the same exp as level 40 mobs now. That is not the same exp as "other NPC's in the game".
This while enemies in in VR1-10 zones still gives you full 100% exp, if you're in their level range. So by leveling characters from VR1-13 you gain a lot more CP than any playing on a VR14. CP is also bound to account, so arguing that lower level VR should earn more is a moot point.
Fastest way to gain CP now is basically playing lower level VR alts. I don't think that's a fair or reasonable system. My alts are all capped, with most quest completed, for example.
But for sure, something had to be done about certain no-lifers recent CP gain. I just hope ZoS can find a better solution than denying all VR14 characters full exp from normal monsters.
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Fun is that there is limit to how many daily quests you can make so like it or not even if you wanna grind with quests you cant... in the end we all will be forced to go on one spot and kill mobs there much more then the 2 months in the parody in south park about wow.
PS: The daily quest limit even counts for pledges and craft quests ... ONLY quest that are not in it are the take keep/ scout farm,kill players and so on (the quests in location in cyr like bruma are counted on the same list as pledges, crag and other pve)0 -
Grinding is an option, but when it's the fastest way to do it it alienates people. I grinded to VR14, I grind my skills up and I grind CPs. I'm a grind-a-holic and I hate questing, but even I recognize that grinding is significantly faster than any other method. If they didn't fix it, there would be a huge disparity between questing and grinding, just like the one between PvP and PvE currently. Grinding and questing should be close to each other in terms of exp per hour, not with grinding leading the way. It should be an option, not the absolute best method. At a certain point, it seems people are not complaining about the lack of the option, but the lack of very fast, very easy exp.0
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Khaldar✭✭✭KaneK899ub17_ESO wrote: »Grinding is an option, but when it's the fastest way to do it it alienates people. I grinded to VR14, I grind my skills up and I grind CPs. I'm a grind-a-holic and I hate questing, but even I recognize that grinding is significantly faster than any other method. If they didn't fix it, there would be a huge disparity between questing and grinding, just like the one between PvP and PvE currently. Grinding and questing should be close to each other in terms of exp per hour, not with grinding leading the way. It should be an option, not the absolute best method. At a certain point, it seems people are not complaining about the lack of the option, but the lack of very fast, very easy exp.
As a grinder, I don't find it "fast and easy XP" unless you are exploiting a broken spawn. That is were the confusion lies. PvE and PvP XP need to be brought in line with legitimate grinding. Not the other way around. PvE and PvP XP are tooooo slow as they are for nearly anyone looking to make multiple alts. The exploitation experts will always be there. It is ZOS' job to punish those exploiting broken spawns NOT punish the whole community.0 -
KaneK899ub17_ESO wrote: »Grinding is an option, but when it's the fastest way to do it it alienates people. I grinded to VR14, I grind my skills up and I grind CPs. I'm a grind-a-holic and I hate questing, but even I recognize that grinding is significantly faster than any other method. If they didn't fix it, there would be a huge disparity between questing and grinding, just like the one between PvP and PvE currently. Grinding and questing should be close to each other in terms of exp per hour, not with grinding leading the way. It should be an option, not the absolute best method. At a certain point, it seems people are not complaining about the lack of the option, but the lack of very fast, very easy exp.
As a grinder, I don't find it "fast and easy XP" unless you are exploiting a broken spawn. That is were the confusion lies. PvE and PvP XP need to be brought in line with legitimate grinding. Not the other way around. PvE and PvP XP are tooooo slow as they are for nearly anyone looking to make multiple alts. The exploitation experts will always be there. It is ZOS' job to punish those exploiting broken spawns NOT punish the whole community.
I don't disagree. I would like to see all forms of exp gain being kicked up a bit, especially in PvP where I spend most of my time. However, Spellscar was hardly a broken spawn and gaining 1 vet rank per 2 hours was easy even after the first time they nerfed it. Grinding is fast and easy exp no matter how you slice it. My point was that grinding was far and away superior almost to the point of absurdity in terms of how fast you could level especially when compared to other forms of exp farming. I don't think going from VR1 to VR14 in 2-3 days was how they intended it to be which is why I would consider it too fast. Given their statements about how long it should take prior to Vet level cap increases and subsequent nerfs, I'd say my thoughts were correct.
Whether or not other forms of exp gain are fast enough is a separate issue. Realistically, I'd expect/want the average player to level once per 4-6 hours of playtime and hardcore questers/PvPers/grinders to do it in 3-4. As far as CP is concerned, the rate at which you are able to gain them from any method seems slow because people are trying to grind to cap in a week when it was intended to be long-term progression. This is exacerbated by how stupid powerful some of the CP skills are. Falling behind by 50 points even at this stage in the game puts you at a lower viability tier and that's a huge problem.Edited by KaneK899ub17_ESO on March 8, 2015 11:33PM0 -
WhiskyBob✭✭✭✭✭Recent nerf in Craglorn was irrational.
73k xp per run wasnt too high and it was ONLY *** THING TO DO FOR VETERANS THAT HAVE COMPLETED THE *** CONTENT.
Each day I see people in guilds saying their fairwells. Veterans. Very dissapointed veterans.
CP system is like sinking ship that is being fixed with plastic bags and bubble-gum.
Tamriel Limited - Play The Way Devs Allow You ToEdited by WhiskyBob on March 9, 2015 12:59AM1