Vet XP is broken now, math included

Zheg · March 2015

In the attempt to prevent and nerf potential xp exploits for champion point gains, ZOS has actually broken veteran leveling, and I usually hate to use the word broken in cases like this. Here's the math:

It takes 1000000 xp for each veteran level now.

There are 5 zones per alliance, and each zone has 3 dolmens, 6 world bosses, and 6 solo delves. Doing all of these objectives for a single zone nets you ~5000 xp for each. Doing simple math, 3 + 6 + 6 = 15 objectives.

At 5000 xp each, we're looking at 15 * 5000 = 75000 xp to clear an entire zone.

Since there are 5 zones per alliance, if you do all of these objectives, we're looking at 5 * 75000 = 375000 xp.

This is 375000 / 1000000 = 37.5% of a SINGLE veteran level. Previously, doing these objectives for a single alliance would net about 3 full veteran levels.

My guild just did a dolmen/world boss event where we ran around each AD zone killing them for xp, and I gained about 25% of a veteran level.

Craglorn isn't any better, as I've done almost the entire lower + upper main questline today and a few group delves. Completion of each nets you the same ~5k xp, though one of the main quests gave 16k.

Luckily I already have a v14, and two v12s. I absolutely will not be leveling my v1 templar with the current vet xp system in place. This needs to be fixed ASAP, as any new players coming into the game in 1.5 weeks when the game goes BTP will take one look at this horrible grind and probably throw in the towel.

If you want to keep people from grinding too many champion points too quickly, I support that. But you cannot break the veteran leveling system in order to do so.

While I refuse to do all of the quests in an alliance to test this, I think at the current xp rewards, doing every quest, dolmen, world boss, and solo dungeon for an alliance would net you less than 4 vet levels, and the original design was 5 vet levels of content for each alliance (and this did not include doing every single little quest either).

ZOS said that vet levels will not be removed in time for the console release, which many people interpret as they're staying in the game permanently which will run contrary to their previous position on saying they're being removed eventually. I would much rather see veteran levels go away completely as the fix, but since that seems unlikely to happen, you either need to greatly increase the vet xp rewards to be more in line with what they were previously, or you need to significantly lower the XP needed to achieve a veteran level.

Paulington · March 2015

What? You claim Vereran XP is "broken" but refuse to actually put in the time to prove it and instead make random assumptions of XP given by the things that give the least overall XP, multiply them together to produce a meaningless number and proclaim your victory over the "broken" system and demand change? Right.

I for one have done almost all the quests in the game and can tell you doing all quests, dolmens, delves, skyshards, world bosses, areas of interest, wayshrines and anything else that gives XP along with a lot of mob killing nets you 1,200,000 - 1,500,000 XP per "Cadwell's Almanac" zone and I feel this is bang on correct and means you start out levelling content around VR5-6!

If you want to demand change and tell others what to do, you should at least be willing to put the time and effort in to produce a sturdy and coherent argument, at least that way you look a little less silly when shown to be wrong.

Zheg · March 2015

Paulington wrote: »

What? You claim Vereran XP is "broken" but refuse to actually put in the time to prove it and instead make random assumptions of XP given by the things that give the least overall XP, multiply them together to produce a meaningless number and proclaim your victory over the "broken" system and demand change? Right.

I for one have done almost all the quests in the game and can tell you doing all quests, dolmens, delves, skyshards, world bosses, areas of interest, wayshrines and anything else that gives XP along with a lot of mob killing nets you 1,200,000 - 1,500,000 XP per "Cadwell's Almanac" zone and I feel this is bang on correct and means you start out levelling content around VR5-6!

If you want to demand change and tell others what to do, you should at least be willing to put the time and effort in to produce a sturdy and coherent argument, at least that way you look a little less silly when shown to be wrong.

Your post is... bizarre. Doing the main objectives for a single alliance gave you about 3 veteran levels for the past year. With the new xp system, doing these same objectives gives you 0.37 veteran levels (ALL of them, the combined total for all 5 zones). The xp is literally 1/10 for completion rewards (it's the same for quests, dolmens, world bosses, and solo dungeons). Grinding regular mobs is also paltry. Not really sure what the **** you're talking about considering I did every single dolmen/WB/solo dungeon for the first alliance today, as well as each of the lower and upper craglorn quests (long day today) and get the same reward across the board (still V1 as of right now). Clearly you haven't done what you say you have post-1.6 as doing an entire zone does NOT give you 1200000 - 1500000 xp any more.

Kuro1n · March 2015

inb4 exp boosts P2W (it seems like the only logical answer to this).

Zheg · March 2015

I think this is just an oversight on their part. They were so focused on trying to keep CP farming in check that they didn't look at how the nerfed numbers would affect people actually trying to level veteran ranks. I'm pretty sure they said with 1.6 that getting veteran ranks should be EASIER. The fact that doing the guild activity on my alt today netted me 1/3 of a veteran level, whereas doing the same thing a few months ago netted me about 3 full levels tells me they just didn't think through the xp nerfs.

murtrem_ESO · March 2015

I'm gaining about 1 1/4 vet levens per zone. Just started Cadwells gold at v6. Even gained 4 champion points doing less than half of the final Cadwells sliver zone last night (enlightened). XP seems spot on.

Zheg · March 2015

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm gaining about 1 1/4 vet levens per zone. Just started Cadwells gold at v6. Even gained 4 champion points doing less than half of the final Cadwells sliver zone last night (enlightened). XP seems spot on.

How is that possible? My templar was pretty much a brand new v1 before 1.6 dropped. I did all of the quests in Auridon and just didn't turn them in until 1.6 was pushed to live so I could get a surge of champ points that way. Those quests, plus a few more main quests, and all of the bosses/dolmens and some solo dungeons across all of the AD zones left my character at 810000/1000000. I didn't even gain a single level. Every other of the 11 or so guildies that ran the event with me expressed similar problems with the xp rewards.

Granted, I did most of this today, and I know they were stealth nerfing CP grind spots in craglorn, so it's possible this is a very recent development, but it doesn't make sense that you'd get a little more than a vet level per zone, and somehow I'm still 4/5 through my first vet level having done most of the objectives of all of the other zones in addition to fully clearing (all quests too) the first zone of cadwell's silver.

Edit: I wonder if this is bugged. My lvl 25 sorc just turned in a main quest in rivenspire and gained 5.6k xp (out of 34k). That number is slightly more than my v1 temp would get clearing a dolmen or something in a vet zone.

xaraan · March 2015

Are you talking about doing the stuff in a zone, but not the quest turn ins? Because most of the xp gain is from turning in quests. Plus if you do a zone too many levels under your level it will give you much less xp.

Sharee · March 2015

Zheg wrote: »

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm gaining about 1 1/4 vet levens per zone. Just started Cadwells gold at v6. Even gained 4 champion points doing less than half of the final Cadwells sliver zone last night (enlightened). XP seems spot on.

How is that possible? My templar was pretty much a brand new v1 before 1.6 dropped. I did all of the quests in Auridon and just didn't turn them in until 1.6 was pushed to live so I could get a surge of champ points that way. Those quests, plus a few more main quests, and all of the bosses/dolmens and some solo dungeons across all of the AD zones left my character at 810000/1000000. I didn't even gain a single level.

He was actually questing, while you were just cashing in quest xp. That means you did not get exploration and mob kill XP.

With my v5 (v6 now) DK, i did three quest hubs in stonefalls and one quest hub in Deshaan and i got about 3/4 of a vet level from that (along with 4 CP)

Zheg · March 2015

Sharee wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm gaining about 1 1/4 vet levens per zone. Just started Cadwells gold at v6. Even gained 4 champion points doing less than half of the final Cadwells sliver zone last night (enlightened). XP seems spot on.

How is that possible? My templar was pretty much a brand new v1 before 1.6 dropped. I did all of the quests in Auridon and just didn't turn them in until 1.6 was pushed to live so I could get a surge of champ points that way. Those quests, plus a few more main quests, and all of the bosses/dolmens and some solo dungeons across all of the AD zones left my character at 810000/1000000. I didn't even gain a single level.

He was actually questing, while you were just cashing in quest xp. That means you did not get exploration and mob kill XP.

With my v5 (v6 now) DK, i did three quest hubs in stonefalls and one quest hub in Deshaan and i got about 3/4 of a vet level from that (along with 4 CP)

Except, I didn't go into Auridon until V1, so I still got the exploration and kill xp on 1.5. How do you explain the fact that I did the entire lower craglorn questline, and all but the last of the upper craglorn questline on my v12 DK today and had the same xp reward problem as my v1 temp? Along with three other guildies that saw their v11 and v12 vet levels barely budge.

I did a main quest from start to finish on my temp today as well, and see the same issue.

Out of curiosity, what alliances are you guys (DC here)?

And sorry, but let's be generous and say you kill maybe 250 or so more mobs doing the quests whereas I just turned them in for rewards. How could the 250 additional mobs result in you getting a full veteran rank when I get a sliver doing the same content?

It's not just me seeing this, everyone in our guild is saying the same thing tonight.

Sharee · March 2015

Zheg wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

I'm gaining about 1 1/4 vet levens per zone. Just started Cadwells gold at v6. Even gained 4 champion points doing less than half of the final Cadwells sliver zone last night (enlightened). XP seems spot on.

How is that possible? My templar was pretty much a brand new v1 before 1.6 dropped. I did all of the quests in Auridon and just didn't turn them in until 1.6 was pushed to live so I could get a surge of champ points that way. Those quests, plus a few more main quests, and all of the bosses/dolmens and some solo dungeons across all of the AD zones left my character at 810000/1000000. I didn't even gain a single level.

He was actually questing, while you were just cashing in quest xp. That means you did not get exploration and mob kill XP.

With my v5 (v6 now) DK, i did three quest hubs in stonefalls and one quest hub in Deshaan and i got about 3/4 of a vet level from that (along with 4 CP)

How do you explain the fact that I did the entire lower craglorn questline, and all but the last of the upper craglorn questline on my v12 DK today and had the same xp reward problem as my v1 temp? Along with three other guildies that saw their v11 and v12 vet levels barely budge.

The key to having fun in this game is to stop hypnotizing the XP bar with your eyes. It is like analog clock - it only moves when you aren't watching.

As for why you did not get expected XP in craglorn - i have no idea. I never did craglorn quests, so i don't know if what you got is okay or not. I only know that my normal leveling in the v6-v7 zones resulted in about as much XP as i expected. Normal leveling means, do the main quest in a hub, get distracted halfway through because there's a dolmen, then retu... hey, there's a group dungeon here, let's see if i can solo it (i could), cash in main hub quest, move to another hub, get distracted along the way because there's a delve i didn't collect the skyshard from yet, etc. etc. etc.

After a day of this chaotic activity, i went from halfway towards vet6 to 1/4 towards vet7.

Rust_in_Peace · March 2015

We know xp gain is broken. We know quest xp is broken, we know pvp xp s broken, we know xp gain from just about everything is broken... and yet ZOS ignores it and people come and defend it saying it's good design because "YOU SHOULDN'T EXPECT THINGS HANDED TO YOU ON A SILVER PLATTER" - actual quote that I got a warning for reporting as a troll. I wish I had more to contribute but my feelings on this are mostly negative.

Zheg · March 2015

I mean, I could take a screenshot of my v1 templar's AD maps to show that Auridon was completed, and all of the objectives that used to be great sources of xp on the other maps are completed, and yet he's still 4/5 through V1. Something is done broke.

Following a different line of argument, and hoping to not send the discussion off on a tangent afterwards, if questing ends up being the only way to get decent (and still slow) veteran xp, how is that supposed to work? There are people that have been pvp'ing for months and still aren't v14 yet. The veteran dungeons are giving crap xp from what friends are telling me (though I'll need to do a few runs myself to confirm), and you definitely can't grind in craglorn any more. There are no more options but to do the same quests people have done on alts already? Quests that seem to give broken xp at least for the guildies and friends I've talked to today?

Again, since everyone I've talked to is on DC, I'm very curious to see if the people saying xp is fine are playing on different alliances, though that would certainly be both a crappy and weird bug.

Brother_Numsie · March 2015

I have to agree, I think there may be something wrong with DC's VR XP. Finally got to VR4 after grinding all week (was at VR3.5) and had a look at some friends on EP side who just got Vet, they are already at VR4 in less then a week! I've completed about 1/4 of the quests in the current map and hardly a blip on my XP bar. Doesn't look like I will be anywhere near VR5 by the time I'm done with the map. This is insane!

nothing2591 · March 2015

i agree ,got 2 chars parked at vr1 just because of this..

Curragraigue · March 2015

When I did Cadwell's Silver & Gold the first time around I had to do everything in the zone quests, finding locations, delves, public dungeon, world bosses and dolmens to get 1 and a little bit of a VR per zone. Not sure when you did your comparative study but that seems quite high XP return for just doing delves, WBs and dolmens.

Imo if anything we seem to be getting a lot more XP in each zone compared to my first time around because I seem to be getting a VR after completing half of a zone even skipping the WBs and Champions in the public dungeon so not sure what the problem is.

f047ys3v3n · March 2015

Yep, back in the day questing though a zone might get you on the order of 1.2 vet ranks. Now maybe .6 or so. That was my experience today. The side effect of all the mob XP nerfs has been that overall XP gain has become garbage because almost all of the XP gain from questing was mob XP. The obvious solution to this and to the problem of people grinding for XP instead of completing content is to make quest turn in XP massive relative to mobs. Instead mob XP is continually nerfed and quest XP never buffed.

By the way, Sanctum Ophidia for an hour and a half today, up until the serpent boss yielded 3k xp total. How much for the complete? Well, it just so happens I had forgotten to turn in a previous runs complete when I entered today so I can tell you it is 11k. Lol, ~14k XP total for the hardest trial in the game.

This stuff needed to be fixed before 1.6 when live. We now have folks with 130 CP at least and no really good options for getting XP at least in the relm of "legitimate play." God save the few new players foolish enough to wander in here with 0 CP. Unless they find somebody's super secret stealth grinding spot they are so screwed because you know content isn't going to get the job done.

Brother_Numsie · March 2015

Curragraigue wrote: »

When I did Cadwell's Silver & Gold the first time around I had to do everything in the zone quests, finding locations, delves, public dungeon, world bosses and dolmens to get 1 and a little bit of a VR per zone. Not sure when you did your comparative study but that seems quite high XP return for just doing delves, WBs and dolmens.

If anything we seem to be getting a lot more XP in each zone atm because I seem to be getting a VR after completing half of a zone even skipping the WBs and Champions in the public dungeon so not sure what the problem is.

Just curious, which faction are you? (The one you chose at character creation) Cause I'm doing all the quests, delves, and bosses and I'm lucky if I get just over half a Vet level.

Curragraigue · March 2015

Brother_Numsie wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

When I did Cadwell's Silver & Gold the first time around I had to do everything in the zone quests, finding locations, delves, public dungeon, world bosses and dolmens to get 1 and a little bit of a VR per zone. Not sure when you did your comparative study but that seems quite high XP return for just doing delves, WBs and dolmens.

If anything we seem to be getting a lot more XP in each zone atm because I seem to be getting a VR after completing half of a zone even skipping the WBs and Champions in the public dungeon so not sure what the problem is.

Just curious, which faction are you? (The one you chose at character creation) Cause I'm doing all the quests, delves, and bosses and I'm lucky if I get just over half a Vet level.

DC so I'm levelling a few baby VR toons through AD atm. I've got an EP VR1 in DC but I haven't started levelling him yet.

starkerealm · March 2015

Zheg wrote: »

I mean, I could take a screenshot of my v1 templar's AD maps to show that Auridon was completed, and all of the objectives that used to be great sources of xp on the other maps are completed, and yet he's still 4/5 through V1. Something is done broke.

Yeah, that seems to be a very specific issue with the Vet 1 zones. I think it's a holdover from when the Vet 1 progression was only 500k, and when the XP rates were normalized, that never got fixed. The vet 2 zone is worth about 1m xp, and the zones after it are worth progressively more. But, the difference between Vet 1 content and Vet 2 content is so minor, I really wouldn't worry about that one.

onlinegamer1 · March 2015

I can verify that XP is broken beyond hell.

I started my VR5 zone (Reapers March) as a VR5 with exactly 3512 XP (i.e. I JUST BARELY was VR5).
I ended that zone (all quests, delves, world bosses, dolmens (which give no XP other than mob kills, fyi)) with 819k XP. That is about 18% short of my level.

To be clear here: I WALKED the entire zone on foot, killing EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE. I CLEARED every delve (i.e. every single monster dead, even off in side rooms). I even spent a little time (about 1 hr) purposefully farming mobs in a certain spot (shhh, secret). I did not skip ANYTHING WHATSOEVER.

XP
IS
BROKEN.

phreatophile · March 2015

Of course it make sense for mobs in the highest lvl zone to give the worst XP. facepalm

As a VR 14, I ought not get better XP from a VR10 mob than a VR11-VR14. That is just simple logic.

The problem in Craglorn is the number of Mobs. It's easy to get pretty descent XP there, or would be if the Mobs gave appropriate XP for their level. But the OP forum whining wins again.

Zheg · March 2015

phreatophile wrote: »

Of course it make sense for mobs in the highest lvl zone to give the worst XP. facepalm

As a VR 14, I ought not get better XP from a VR10 mob than a VR11-VR14. That is just simple logic.

The problem in Craglorn is the number of Mobs. It's easy to get pretty descent XP there, or would be if the Mobs gave appropriate XP for their level. But the OP forum whining wins again.

I guess I see CP and vet XP as two separate issues here. ZOS is trying to keep everyone from earning CP too quickly and doing it heavy handed at the moment, but everything I've tried (on a V1 and a V12 character) seems to be broken for xp compared to what it used to give. It's not like this is my first rodeo, I've got 4 characters in the vet ranks, and 3 at v12 or above - I've done this before. Doing it on 1.6 with my templar it's painfully obvious something is off.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can you please look into veteran xp?

egosumacunnus · March 2015

Veteran XP has been gimped since they changed it from VP.

Zos apparently thinks we would liek to spend 10 years maxing out a character.

Spidermonk · March 2015

I can confirm that some quests will give you more than 5K XP. The most I got out of a single quest was 19K and I'm about 70% of the way from V7 at half completion (just turned V6 when I started the zone). The VR grind has always felt too excessive to me, especially when trying to level skills up. I would not be opposed to a small XP boost.

Zheg · March 2015

Spidermonk wrote: »

I can confirm that some quests will give you more than 5K XP. The most I got out of a single quest was 19K and I'm about 70% of the way from V7 at half completion (just turned V6 when I started the zone). The VR grind has always felt too excessive to me, especially when trying to level skills up. I would not be opposed to a small XP boost.

Which Alliance are you? The highest I received for a quest through the craglorn main line was 12 or 16k, the rest were 5k.

Roechacca · March 2015

Knew this would happen . Why not just relaunch the game and make everyone level 1 . Then we'll have tons of old content to redoo ! Stop balancing xp , you're no good at it . After a year I'm certain of this .

Spidermonk · March 2015

AD, doing Caldwell's Gold ATM (Glenumbra)

Zheg · March 2015

Spidermonk wrote: »

AD, doing Caldwell's Gold ATM (Glenumbra)

If you end up doing any of the craglorn main quests today, I'd be very interested to see what the xp reward is for AD

golfer.dub17_ESO · March 2015

I did the majority of quests in Alik'r and the previous zones, and I was only like Veteran 4.5 when I entered Bangkorai.

I am suspicious, it does seem broken. Legitimately broken, not "broken".

I can't grind mobs anymore, and Cyrodiil quests only give maybe 30-60k a day (depending on how many towns I can go to without the enemy faction killing me), so what is someone supposed to do?

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

This is entirely wrong math.

1. Only smaller quests grant 5k XP. More involved quests grant upwards of 10-20k.
2. You're ignoring exploration, world boss, public dungeons, kills, etc. XP.
3. You clearly haven't actually put your math to the test. I can tell you that I'm easily outleveling content on my fresh VR templar. Completing all content in a zone grants well over 1,000,000 XP.