Suggestion for Attacking NPC's

Takhistis · March 2015

So we have the option to turn off being able to attack npc's in towns. I always use it as I tend to misclick often and thus being chased by guards

But if we're caught by NPC's doing something illegal, we're being attacked and need to go all the way into settings to turn it off. Especially when 2 npc's attack you it gets annoying.
Thus: Can't we still "not be able to attack innocent NPC's" as long as we have that box checked, BUT not having to turn it off just to fight off an assailant?

ItsGlaive · March 2015

Yeah it should auto-toggle when an NPC attacks YOU so that you can defend yourself, and then toggle back on after the fight.

1ne2woBe · March 2015

If I'm reading your post correctly... You would like to steal/thieve from innocent NPC's, but not have them attack you if you have that option ticked?

Sorry, but I believe if you decide (accidental or not) to thieve, then no matter what you shall be confronted. If it was a mistake, then pay your little fine, and be glad it is over within a tiny amount of gold, rather than your life.

KleanZlate · March 2015

1ne2woBe wrote: »

If I'm reading your post correctly... You would like to steal/thieve from innocent NPC's, but not have them attack you if you have that option ticked?

Sorry, but I believe if you decide (accidental or not) to thieve, then no matter what you shall be confronted. If it was a mistake, then pay your little fine, and be glad it is over within a tiny amount of gold, rather than your life.

I think what he means is that it's good to have the option turned on so you don't attack someone by mistake but that you should be able to attack back when someone attacks you. Makes sense to me.

1ne2woBe · March 2015

KleanZlate wrote: »

1ne2woBe wrote: »

If I'm reading your post correctly... You would like to steal/thieve from innocent NPC's, but not have them attack you if you have that option ticked?

Sorry, but I believe if you decide (accidental or not) to thieve, then no matter what you shall be confronted. If it was a mistake, then pay your little fine, and be glad it is over within a tiny amount of gold, rather than your life.

I think what he means is that it's good to have the option turned on so you don't attack someone by mistake but that you should be able to attack back when someone attacks you. Makes sense to me.

Right, but you do. Just not guards is all. Right? You can kill NPC's / protect yourself if attacked via an NPC.... Just not guards.

If anything... He is just speaking of 'slip of the finger' within a city's parameter? If so, I'd suggest if that is the case, to put your weapons in your bags if you're that worried. If it was that easy for me to attack when not intended, I'd most certainly pack my weapons within my satchel when walking around in a city. IMO

Takhistis · March 2015

I'm just saying, if i have the option turned on that Prevents me from attacking innocent npc's, i think that if i am attacked by npc's for doing something illegal, i should be allowed to defend myself and KILL the npc immediately, not having to turn off the "safety filter" that prevents me from murdering innocent npc's, cause the npc that attacks me, ain't innocent anymore .

arqe · March 2015

Why do you want to toggle that off and want to rob people anyways ? No NPC will attack you for doing nothing.
Sorry but stupid idea.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

1ne2woBe wrote: »

KleanZlate wrote: »

1ne2woBe wrote: »

If I'm reading your post correctly... You would like to steal/thieve from innocent NPC's, but not have them attack you if you have that option ticked?

Sorry, but I believe if you decide (accidental or not) to thieve, then no matter what you shall be confronted. If it was a mistake, then pay your little fine, and be glad it is over within a tiny amount of gold, rather than your life.

I think what he means is that it's good to have the option turned on so you don't attack someone by mistake but that you should be able to attack back when someone attacks you. Makes sense to me.

Right, but you do. Just not guards is all. Right? You can kill NPC's / protect yourself if attacked via an NPC.... Just not guards.

If anything... He is just speaking of 'slip of the finger' within a city's parameter? If so, I'd suggest if that is the case, to put your weapons in your bags if you're that worried. If it was that easy for me to attack when not intended, I'd most certainly pack my weapons within my satchel when walking around in a city. IMO

How about the block only (don't retailiate) yield that was introduced back in Oblivion, for just such a thing?

Lolssi · March 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about the block only (don't retailiate) yield that was introduced back in Oblivion, for just such a thing?

At first it sounded perfect. Then I started thinking people exploiting it.
But if it would work only on regular npcs and not guards that could work. Or maybe even against guards but yielding to them and then they would haul your ass to the jail could work also?

Takhistis · March 2015

Seems like half of the people reading won't stop misunderstanding it. Thus I will give an example

I walk into the lovely town of Wayrest and think, lets not hit any NPC's by accident so lets turn on the protective option that PREVENTS US FROM HITTING INNOCENT NPC'S.
I pickpocket someone/get caught stealing from a strongbox and AN NPC ATTACKS ME
But my option is turned on so I can NOT kill the npc, who's trying to KILL ME, without first going into settings to turn off the protective option, then kill the npc, and turn on the protective option again.

Thus, can we please have the NPC'S that ATTACK ME FIRST, not be protected by the protective option?

guldrik · March 2015

Takhistis wrote: »

Seems like half of the people reading won't stop misunderstanding it. Thus I will give an example

I walk into the lovely town of Wayrest and think, lets not hit any NPC's by accident so lets turn on the protective option that PREVENTS US FROM HITTING INNOCENT NPC'S.
I pickpocket someone/get caught stealing from a strongbox and AN NPC ATTACKS ME
But my option is turned on so I can NOT kill the npc, who's trying to KILL ME, without first going into settings to turn off the protective option, then kill the npc, and turn on the protective option again.

Thus, can we please have the NPC'S that ATTACK ME FIRST, not be protected by the protective option?

Um-....don't steal from him..

guldrik · March 2015

Do you want to have your cake..or do you want to eat it...

1ne2woBe · March 2015

Takhistis wrote: »

I walk into the lovely town of Wayrest and think, lets not hit any NPC's by accident so lets turn on the protective option that PREVENTS US FROM HITTING INNOCENT NPC'S.
I pickpocket someone/get caught stealing from a strongbox and AN NPC ATTACKS ME
But my option is turned on so I can NOT kill the npc, who's trying to KILL ME, without first going into settings to turn off the protective option, then kill the npc, and turn on the protective option again.

1ne2woBe wrote: »

...You would like to steal/thieve from innocent NPC's, but not have them attack you if you have that option ticked?

Yea... I do believe I know what you are saying?.... No?

Why are you pickpocketting NPC's if you have no intentions to (since your "option is turned ON")?

EDIT: DO NOT pickpocket/steel if you do NOT want to get a beat down. If an NPC catches you, I'd expect them to put up a fight. I'd expect them to call a guard over and beat you down. Hell, if I happen to be within ear-shot, I'd like to join to help them give you a beat down if I could LOL. Well, one of my toons at least would. He's a complete jerk.

Heishi · March 2015

I get what you're saying OP. You don't want to accidentally engage/murder npcs by attacking them, but if you decide to steal on purpose (different from attacking people) and you trigger them to attack, you want the safety to turn off for the duration of the fight.

My main has a 70k bounty so I don't really mind murder, but I completely get the issue presented. It's not about wanting to steal without getting caught, having cake and eating it too, or any of that. It's about wanting to steal, not murder, and still have the ability to easily fight when you get caught stealing.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

Lolssi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about the block only (don't retailiate) yield that was introduced back in Oblivion, for just such a thing?

At first it sounded perfect. Then I started thinking people exploiting it.
But if it would work only on regular npcs and not guards that could work. Or maybe even against guards but yielding to them and then they would haul your ass to the jail could work also?

@Lolssi, yield option only for NPC's (assuming it was an accidental hit and your weren't caught mid robbery). Yield option to guard results in jail/bounty paid - flee not an option at that point.

It would help prevent the stupid circumstance where you are aiming at an actual enemy when a genius 'friendly' comes meandering though... Either that or a verbal warning for the first hit only (vice insta-aggro).

Takhistis wrote: »

Seems like half of the people reading won't stop misunderstanding it. Thus I will give an example

I walk into the lovely town of Wayrest and think, lets not hit any NPC's by accident so lets turn on the protective option that PREVENTS US FROM HITTING INNOCENT NPC'S.
I pickpocket someone/get caught stealing from a strongbox and AN NPC ATTACKS ME
But my option is turned on so I can NOT kill the npc, who's trying to KILL ME, without first going into settings to turn off the protective option, then kill the npc, and turn on the protective option again.

Thus, can we please have the NPC'S that ATTACK ME FIRST, not be protected by the protective option?

@Takhistis , people get it just fine.

How about "No."

If you break into my house to steal my TV, you don't get to shoot me and claim self defense. Assassin's Creed had this right - if you are struck first, anything goes. If not, you're still committing a criminal act.

If you insist on stealing (poorly) and do not want the murder charge tacked on, your option should be to block, die, or flee.

(In fact, I will take this a step further and say once combat is engaged, you should not even have the option to check the box until combat is over.)

1ne2woBe · March 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Lolssi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about the block only (don't retailiate) yield that was introduced back in Oblivion, for just such a thing?

At first it sounded perfect. Then I started thinking people exploiting it.
But if it would work only on regular npcs and not guards that could work. Or maybe even against guards but yielding to them and then they would haul your ass to the jail could work also?

@Lolssi, yield option only for NPC's (assuming it was an accidental hit and your weren't caught mid robbery). Yield option to guard results in jail/bounty paid - flee not an option at that point.

It would help prevent the stupid circumstance where you are aiming at an actual enemy when a genius 'friendly' comes meandering though... Either that or a verbal warning for the first hit only (vice insta-aggro).

Takhistis wrote: »

Seems like half of the people reading won't stop misunderstanding it. Thus I will give an example

I walk into the lovely town of Wayrest and think, lets not hit any NPC's by accident so lets turn on the protective option that PREVENTS US FROM HITTING INNOCENT NPC'S.
I pickpocket someone/get caught stealing from a strongbox and AN NPC ATTACKS ME
But my option is turned on so I can NOT kill the npc, who's trying to KILL ME, without first going into settings to turn off the protective option, then kill the npc, and turn on the protective option again.

Thus, can we please have the NPC'S that ATTACK ME FIRST, not be protected by the protective option?

@Takhistis , people get it just fine.

How about "No."

If you break into my house to steal my TV, you don't get to shoot me and claim self defense. Assassin's Creed had this right - if you are struck first, anything goes. If not, you're still committing a criminal act.

If you insist on stealing (poorly) and do not want the murder charge tacked on, your option should be to block, die, or flee.

(In fact, I will take this a step further and say once combat is engaged, you should not even have the option to check the box until combat is over.)

^^^^^^^^ Spot on!!! ^^^^^^^^^^

1ne2woBe · March 2015

Heishi wrote: »

I get what you're saying OP. You don't want to accidentally engage/murder npcs by attacking them, but if you decide to steal on purpose (different from attacking people) and you trigger them to attack, you want the safety to turn off for the duration of the fight.

My main has a 70k bounty so I don't really mind murder, but I completely get the issue presented. It's not about wanting to steal without getting caught, having cake and eating it too, or any of that. It's about wanting to steal, not murder, and still have the ability to easily fight when you get caught stealing.

So, you want to be able to be a thief, but you do not want to be killed? As long as you 'say' you are not going to kill, then the NPC is supposed to know this (presuming real life). So, for this to happen, would you like to be able to do crime upon the city unarmed (weapons unequipped), and then the guards/NPC's would know you are not there to kill, just take their belongings? And other than death, you'd have to pay... let's say 8x the amount of your armor being repaired (lawyer fees, justice, recompensation, etc..., as well as all your stolen goods taken away too. Does that sound more fair?

tallenn · March 2015

I agree with OP. If you're attacked, you have a right to defend yourself. You shouldn't have to risk accidentally hurting someone just to be able to exercise that right.

1ne2woBe · March 2015

tallenn wrote: »

I agree with OP. If you're attacked, you have a right to defend yourself. You shouldn't have to risk accidentally hurting someone just to be able to exercise that right.

Which 'right' are we talking about exactly? The right to defend yourself? That's the only 'right' you have suggested thus far.

Fleshreaper · March 2015

1ne2woBe wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

I get what you're saying OP. You don't want to accidentally engage/murder npcs by attacking them, but if you decide to steal on purpose (different from attacking people) and you trigger them to attack, you want the safety to turn off for the duration of the fight.

My main has a 70k bounty so I don't really mind murder, but I completely get the issue presented. It's not about wanting to steal without getting caught, having cake and eating it too, or any of that. It's about wanting to steal, not murder, and still have the ability to easily fight when you get caught stealing.

So, you want to be able to be a thief, but you do not want to be killed? As long as you 'say' you are not going to kill, then the NPC is supposed to know this (presuming real life). So, for this to happen, would you like to be able to do crime upon the city unarmed (weapons unequipped), and then the guards/NPC's would know you are not there to kill, just take their belongings? And other than death, you'd have to pay... let's say 8x the amount of your armor being repaired (lawyer fees, justice, recompensation, etc..., as well as all your stolen goods taken away too. Does that sound more fair?

You can't honestly be that daft! Holy living hell, learn some reading comprehension. OP said, "I always use it as I tend to misclick often and thus being chased by guards " He is not wanting to not be chased when he breaks the law, he is not asking to not be attacked when he breaks the law, he is not asking for some pulled out of your back side anti-stand your ground law, OMG, REALLY????? He is simple asking for the switch to be automatically turned off when he chooses to commit a crime, so that he doesn't hit the "3" key when he is just trying to stroll through the city using "W".

Gidorick · March 2015

Don't worry @Takhistis some of us understand. Some thieves don't want to also be murderers. I like the NPC yield option, sort of making amends. Perhaps you can pay the NPC off to not say anything. But if you're attacked, you should be able to attack your attacker. Seems reasonable.... but it should still be considered murder!

Takhistis · March 2015

Ok, thanks for those defending me
And let me make a statement.
Up front, this is no personal attack against anyone who commented here.
The very first word in this thread is "Suggestion".
I suggest an idea, and try to start a discussion between those against and in favour of this idea. This means I'm expecting a discussion with constructive feedback on how to improve it or with the intent of swaying me to agree that it might not be a good idea. Instead, I see a lot of people bashing ME, not the idea. I'm not asking for immunity for the law. I'm not asking to get away with it always.
If you catch someone stealing your purse, and you start beating them up, do you expect that person to just stand there and take the hits? No, that person will try to defend themselves and possibly overpower you.
That's why I'm asking for this option.

And as to people asking me why I would want to steal, I say: play the content given to me by the developers.
This thread has really gone completely in the wrong direction So I'm asking if we can get back to the subject, as said above:
a discussion with constructive feedback on how to improve it or with the intent of swaying me to agree that it might not be a good idea.

1ne2woBe · March 2015

Fleshreaper wrote: »

1ne2woBe wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

I get what you're saying OP. You don't want to accidentally engage/murder npcs by attacking them, but if you decide to steal on purpose (different from attacking people) and you trigger them to attack, you want the safety to turn off for the duration of the fight.

My main has a 70k bounty so I don't really mind murder, but I completely get the issue presented. It's not about wanting to steal without getting caught, having cake and eating it too, or any of that. It's about wanting to steal, not murder, and still have the ability to easily fight when you get caught stealing.

So, you want to be able to be a thief, but you do not want to be killed? As long as you 'say' you are not going to kill, then the NPC is supposed to know this (presuming real life). So, for this to happen, would you like to be able to do crime upon the city unarmed (weapons unequipped), and then the guards/NPC's would know you are not there to kill, just take their belongings? And other than death, you'd have to pay... let's say 8x the amount of your armor being repaired (lawyer fees, justice, recompensation, etc..., as well as all your stolen goods taken away too. Does that sound more fair?

You can't honestly be that daft! Holy living hell, learn some reading comprehension. OP said, "I always use it as I tend to misclick often and thus being chased by guards " He is not wanting to not be chased when he breaks the law, he is not asking to not be attacked when he breaks the law, he is not asking for some pulled out of your back side anti-stand your ground law, OMG, REALLY????? He is simple asking for the switch to be automatically turned off when he chooses to commit a crime, so that he doesn't hit the "3" key when he is just trying to stroll through the city using "W".

But if we're caught by NPC's doing something illegal, we're being attacked and need to go all the way into settings to turn it off.

/end your "daft" quote.

You reply to what you read, and I'll reply to what I read. Cool? Other than that, read the rest of the thread, huh?

1ne2woBe wrote: »

If anything... He is just speaking of 'slip of the finger' within a city's parameter? If so, I'd suggest if that is the case, to put your weapons in your bags if you're that worried.....

^^^^^^^ You're "Daft reading skills missed this I suppose??? ^^^^^^

Gix · March 2015

Wow, some people are dense.

The "Don't kill NPCs" toggle should only work on WHITE targets... the moment the target turns RED, you should be able to kill them. The toggle is here to prevent accidentally killing innocent people, the act of stealing is conscientious... so you shouldn't have to bother telling the computer what you want to do since it already KNOWS.

This isn't a gameplay or morale issue, this is a UI issue.

Normally when someone complains about the Justice system I'm with the "don't steal/kill" crowd but this is just stupid. Zenimax needs to fix this.

Ley · March 2015

I think it's a reasonable suggestion and should be implemented.
I don't understand how so many people misunderstood you or why so many people think you're being unreasonable.

First 2 minutes I logged on after the patch, I realized I needed to turn off friendly NPC damage or every miss-click will send me running from the guards. Once NPCs are attacking me, that caution goes out the window. Even if you don't want to kill them, it would be nice to be able to at least CC them, so you can run away.

1ne2woBe · March 2015

I don't know... Are we to assume that none of you people played Skyrim? I mean... You could not cast a spell, kill a chicken, NOTHING within a city/town without a guard attacking you nor a bounty on your head. And don't forget, the NPC's were a bunch of squealers too! They'd tell the nearest guard to come and kick your rear ASAP.

Perhaps I may be wrong... It's been a while since I've played Skyrim...

Gix · March 2015

1ne2woBe wrote: »

I don't know... Are we to assume that none of you people played Skyrim? I mean... You could not cast a spell, kill a chicken, NOTHING within a city/town without a guard attacking you nor a bounty on your head. And don't forget, the NPC's were a bunch of squealers too! They'd tell the nearest guard to come and kick your rear ASAP.

Perhaps I may be wrong... It's been a while since I've played Skyrim...

You're not wrong about Skyrim, you're just wrong about what's being discussed/suggested in this thread. It's about the "don't attack NPCs" toggle in your game settings.

Fleshreaper · March 2015

1ne2woBe wrote: »

I don't know... Are we to assume that none of you people played Skyrim? I mean... You could not cast a spell, kill a chicken, NOTHING within a city/town without a guard attacking you nor a bounty on your head. And don't forget, the NPC's were a bunch of squealers too! They'd tell the nearest guard to come and kick your rear ASAP.

Perhaps I may be wrong... It's been a while since I've played Skyrim...

Huh, Elder Scrolls Online does not equal Skyrim. And once again, no one is saying there shouldn't be consequences for their actions. There is a switch for it, in the menu. Players are just asking for it to automatically turn off once engaging in illegal activities.

Honestly, I have no idea why you would have a problem with this. This does not in any way affect you or your play style. The only thing it does is to allow those players that frequently press the wrong keys, for what ever reason, to still be able to enjoy the justice system.

1ne2woBe · March 2015

Fleshreaper wrote: »

1ne2woBe wrote: »

I don't know... Are we to assume that none of you people played Skyrim? I mean... You could not cast a spell, kill a chicken, NOTHING within a city/town without a guard attacking you nor a bounty on your head. And don't forget, the NPC's were a bunch of squealers too! They'd tell the nearest guard to come and kick your rear ASAP.

Perhaps I may be wrong... It's been a while since I've played Skyrim...

Honestly, I have no idea why you would have a problem with this. This does not in any way affect you or your play style. The only thing it does is to allow those players that frequently press the wrong keys, for what ever reason, to still be able to enjoy the justice system.

I don't have a major problem with this. I have just been expressing my own opinions as I have played the same game as you have, and have not felt the same discouragement as you have. If I had any problem at all regarding this, it would be the fact that time and resources that would be implemented into something so minute as this (when it really is not that big of a deal) after such a huge and memorable patch as this has dropped, and there are so many of us whom are not even able to log in, or continue to crash during game, or changing toons, etc.

Hope you understand...

GreySix · March 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about the block only (don't retailiate) yield that was introduced back in Oblivion, for just such a thing?

Concur.

Fleshreaper · March 2015

Yes, I can understand and respect that, however this is not a major reworking of the patch. It would probably take one person an hour maybe two to fix this.