Soooo...no opt out for the Justice System?

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

There is an option. It's called not stealing.

Zershar_Vemod · March 2015

Pay attention to your surroundings more and get more accustomed to sneaking and the "difficulty" of stealing things is next to nothing.

JKorr · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

There is an option. It's called not stealing.

Problem is, with some npcs, they stand behind items. Trying to talk to them can mean stealing something when you have no intention to steal anything. Before the stealing/justice system started, I've ended up with empty bottles and other items like that in my inventory that I did NOT take on purpose.

That happened to me once in Morrowind. Ended up getting nuked by the whole mages's guild because of a bottle picked up trying to talk to the npc vendor. They didn't believe in calling the guards.

Kronosphere · March 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

wah wah i am bad at the game and lazy.

k.

UrQuan · March 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

It is. Well, the toggle is actually more of a "never steal unless you confirm that you want to steal" option. Under the Auto Loot toggle is an Auto Loot Stolen Items toggle. Set it to off and you'll never steal anything without having to hit E once to loot, and then confirm that you want to steal the item by highlighting it and hitting E again, or by hitting R to steal everything.

Gidorick · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

There is an option. It's called not stealing.

There's an option to toggle the ability to kill NPCs. I don't see this as being very different. Both could be done by accident.

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

It is. Well, the toggle is actually more of a "never steal unless you confirm that you want to steal" option. Under the Auto Loot toggle is an Auto Loot Stolen Items toggle. Set it to off and you'll never steal anything without having to hit E once to loot, and then confirm that you want to steal the item by highlighting it and hitting E again, or by hitting R to steal everything.

I wasn't aware of the autoloot toggle. That's good to know. I still think it would be good to add the option for player convenience. I don't think it would break the justice system by allowing players to protect against accidental theft.

UrQuan · March 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

There is an option. It's called not stealing.

There's an option to toggle the ability to kill NPCs. I don't see this as being very different. Both could be done by accident.

How can you steal accidentally when there's this toggle:

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

It is. Well, the toggle is actually more of a "never steal unless you confirm that you want to steal" option. Under the Auto Loot toggle is an Auto Loot Stolen Items toggle. Set it to off and you'll never steal anything without having to hit E once to loot, and then confirm that you want to steal the item by highlighting it and hitting E again, or by hitting R to steal everything.

Gidorick · March 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

There is an option. It's called not stealing.

There's an option to toggle the ability to kill NPCs. I don't see this as being very different. Both could be done by accident.

How can you steal accidentally when there's this toggle:

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

It is. Well, the toggle is actually more of a "never steal unless you confirm that you want to steal" option. Under the Auto Loot toggle is an Auto Loot Stolen Items toggle. Set it to off and you'll never steal anything without having to hit E once to loot, and then confirm that you want to steal the item by highlighting it and hitting E again, or by hitting R to steal everything.

E - E quick presses. You have to press the same key to search and loot, right? If they were different keys then I think it would be less of a chance.

I get that you may think it's unlikely that people could accidentally steal but do you think there is a reason the toggle shouldn't be added other than "players could just not steal".

Craven_Killmore · March 2015

The justice system is exactly how it was in other scrolls games, be a clown and get smashed. If you don't like it you don't have to do any crimes.

Tons of people like the new system and smart players are paid well.

UrQuan · March 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

There is an option. It's called not stealing.

There's an option to toggle the ability to kill NPCs. I don't see this as being very different. Both could be done by accident.

How can you steal accidentally when there's this toggle:

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

It is. Well, the toggle is actually more of a "never steal unless you confirm that you want to steal" option. Under the Auto Loot toggle is an Auto Loot Stolen Items toggle. Set it to off and you'll never steal anything without having to hit E once to loot, and then confirm that you want to steal the item by highlighting it and hitting E again, or by hitting R to steal everything.

E - E quick presses. You have to press the same key to search and loot, right? If they were different keys then I think it would be less of a chance.

I get that you may think it's unlikely that people could accidentally steal but do you think there is a reason the toggle shouldn't be added other than "players could just not steal".

No, it's E, then R... Unless you happen to have the item highlighted with your mouse, but does that actually happen to anyone when you're running around?

Jaxsun · March 2015

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, all. We've removed an off-topic conversation from this thread. We want to give everyone a gentle reminder to report posts that you feel violate the code of conduct rather than replying. Engaging the comment usually side tracks the thread. Thanks for your understanding.

Snitches get stitches...

Frawr · March 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

I remember saying many times I didn't want to participate in the justice system and every time someone would say, "If you don't want to participate you can just opt out." I tried the public test server today and I have the option in gameplay settings to "Prevent Attacking Innocents" yet no option to "Turn Justice System off". So I guess the "opt out" people kept talking about was basically "Don't loot anything ever again outside mobs and dungeons." I have a provisioning character who's materials will all go bad once the new patch goes live so I guess I have no choice but to run dungeons for provisioning materials since I can no longer get them in towns in the hundreds of containers there.

I did try the theft thing and had accumulated 15 lockpicks, was spotted by one random maid and was confronted by the next guard I came close to, I had to pay a 5 gold fine and lost the lockpicks. All lockpicks, provisioning/crafting materials I saw were steal only, as were recipes and racial style motifs. So I'm guessing those will now be in the cash shop as "convience items" for people like me who don't want to spend half the day trying to steal provisioning/crafting materials just to lose them because one person spots you.

you can 'opt out' by not using the containers.

You cannot press a tickbox that will make the guards ignore you and leave you free to do as you please. That would be insane because it would completely negate the whole system.

Level up the Legerdemain and you will be able to take stuff far more easily.

crowzub17_ESO · March 2015

This was so easy to fix and everyones missing it or it seems that way to me.

Have a tick box that makes boxes or containers that would be steal-able from show up as empty. DUH

I cant believe they didn't think of this. If your going to add a box to keep from targeting npcs then have that also make the things that looting = stealing not sure up as lootable from at all.

Not only should they of done this already but my wife and I will probably drop out subscriptions soon if they don't set it that way. My wife especially is effected by this because believe it or not we pay $14.95 a month for her to loot boxes. Taking them away is bad enough as far as she is concerned but making her a criminal if she messes up and loots something by accident (considering eso TRAINED her to do this since launch) is a deal breaker for her.

Sure she's the 5% at most part of the players but her money was good enough up till now.

Point being is add a check box to hide containers that will seen as stealing or your probably going to loose some money which is STUPID since it takes ZERO effort on their part to do it and solves a huge problem they CREATED in the first place.

Enodoc · March 2015

crowzub17_ESO wrote: »

This was so easy to fix and everyones missing it or it seems that way to me.

Have a tick box that makes boxes or containers that would be steal-able from show up as empty. DUH

I cant believe they didn't think of this. If your going to add a box to keep from targeting npcs then have that also make the things that looting = stealing not sure up as lootable from at all.

Not only should they of done this already but my wife and I will probably drop out subscriptions soon if they don't set it that way. My wife especially is effected by this because believe it or not we pay $14.95 a month for her to loot boxes. Taking them away is bad enough as far as she is concerned but making her a criminal if she messes up and loots something by accident (considering eso TRAINED her to do this since launch) is a deal breaker for her.

Sure she's the 5% at most part of the players but her money was good enough up till now.

Point being is add a check box to hide containers that will seen as stealing or your probably going to loose some money which is STUPID since it takes ZERO effort on their part to do it and solves a huge problem they CREATED in the first place.

Would be a nice idea, but since there is already an add-on for that, I guess it won't happen. Haven't tried the add-on myself yet, but it appears as though you have to either be sneaking to steal, or press an extra keybind. No Accidental Stealing

redwoodtreesprite2 · March 2015

But some things are not in containers. And as stated earlier, sometimes very close to NPCs you need to talk to. There needs to be an option to not pick up steal items. Make them non-clickable.

Alurria · March 2015

Hmm...seems some of you are missing the point of the Justice system. It's part of the Elder Scroll games and has been all along, it's just now being introduced in this one. So some of you want buttons or toggles yo bypass it. It totally defeats the purpose of Being CAREFUL when interacting in town and with NPCs. When you go into a China shop do you purposely pick up the expensive dishes ? I don't unless I'm buying them, or treat everything like you would in a jewelry store.

I like consequences to my stupid actions. I think we should do jail time for stealing, or killing innocents.

crowzub17_ESO · March 2015

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm...seems some of you are missing the point of the Justice system. It's part of the Elder Scroll games and has been all along, it's just now being introduced in this one. So some of you want buttons or toggles yo bypass it. It totally defeats the purpose of Being CAREFUL when interacting in town and with NPCs. When you go into a China shop do you purposely pick up the expensive dishes ? I don't unless I'm buying them, or treat everything like you would in a jewelry store.

I like consequences to my stupid actions. I think we should do jail time for stealing, or killing innocents.

The point being is in real life or in any other game Ive played you KNOW if your stealing something. In this game you can pickup something just pressing a key you have been pressing for a YEAR in this game. That's stupid. I don't want to play a thief, play with the justice system that they ADDED. It wasn't part of what I payed for and I don't want anything to do with it.

So a simple option to not steal from people isn't to much to ask.

I will check on the addon but having to use an addon to disable it is stupid when they could of had that in the game to start with.

If they can take the time to add a check box to hide a helmet and a check box to not attack npcs then it wouldn't take any effort to add a checkbox to avoid accidentally stealing stuff.

Alurria · March 2015

crowzub17_ESO wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm...seems some of you are missing the point of the Justice system. It's part of the Elder Scroll games and has been all along, it's just now being introduced in this one. So some of you want buttons or toggles yo bypass it. It totally defeats the purpose of Being CAREFUL when interacting in town and with NPCs. When you go into a China shop do you purposely pick up the expensive dishes ? I don't unless I'm buying them, or treat everything like you would in a jewelry store.

I like consequences to my stupid actions. I think we should do jail time for stealing, or killing innocents.

The point being is in real life or in any other game Ive played you KNOW if your stealing something. In this game you can pickup something just pressing a key you have been pressing for a YEAR in this game. That's stupid. I don't want to play a thief, play with the justice system that they ADDED. It wasn't part of what I payed for and I don't want anything to do with it.

So a simple option to not steal from people isn't to much to ask.

I will check on the addon but having to use an addon to disable it is stupid when they could of had that in the game to start with.

If they can take the time to add a check box to hide a helmet and a check box to not attack npcs then it wouldn't take any effort to add a checkbox to avoid accidentally stealing stuff.

Then you wouldn't be participating in a integral part of a ES game. Paying for this game has nothing to do with these additions which btw have been mentioned being put into the game back before beta. So because you can't or won't becareful you would like to opt out and have a switch okay whatever. You ARE suppose to participate in this game the Justice system is a part of this game now and I believe has always been planned to put in.

Enodoc · March 2015

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

crowzub17_ESO wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm...seems some of you are missing the point of the Justice system. It's part of the Elder Scroll games and has been all along, it's just now being introduced in this one. So some of you want buttons or toggles yo bypass it. It totally defeats the purpose of Being CAREFUL when interacting in town and with NPCs. When you go into a China shop do you purposely pick up the expensive dishes ? I don't unless I'm buying them, or treat everything like you would in a jewelry store.

I like consequences to my stupid actions. I think we should do jail time for stealing, or killing innocents.

The point being is in real life or in any other game Ive played you KNOW if your stealing something. In this game you can pickup something just pressing a key you have been pressing for a YEAR in this game. That's stupid. I don't want to play a thief, play with the justice system that they ADDED. It wasn't part of what I payed for and I don't want anything to do with it.

So a simple option to not steal from people isn't to much to ask.

I will check on the addon but having to use an addon to disable it is stupid when they could of had that in the game to start with.

If they can take the time to add a check box to hide a helmet and a check box to not attack npcs then it wouldn't take any effort to add a checkbox to avoid accidentally stealing stuff.

Then you wouldn't be participating in a integral part of a ES game. Paying for this game has nothing to do with these additions which btw have been mentioned being put into the game back before beta. So because you can't or won't becareful you would like to opt out and have a switch okay whatever. You ARE suppose to participate in this game the Justice system is a part of this game now and I believe has always been planned to put in.

Putting in a toggle option that basically disables "E" for criminal interactions doesn't affect the ability of others to participate in the system.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

I'm really struggling to see the problem here. Either:

1. Don't indiscriminately take stuff in towns.
2. If you "accidentally" hit E on something, then pay your 89 gold to the guards and be on your way. Consider it a cheap lesson in being more careful with your fingers.

Gidorick · March 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

There is an option. It's called not stealing.

There's an option to toggle the ability to kill NPCs. I don't see this as being very different. Both could be done by accident.

How can you steal accidentally when there's this toggle:

UrQuan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The option to "never steal" should be a toggleable option. There is no question about this.

It is. Well, the toggle is actually more of a "never steal unless you confirm that you want to steal" option. Under the Auto Loot toggle is an Auto Loot Stolen Items toggle. Set it to off and you'll never steal anything without having to hit E once to loot, and then confirm that you want to steal the item by highlighting it and hitting E again, or by hitting R to steal everything.

E - E quick presses. You have to press the same key to search and loot, right? If they were different keys then I think it would be less of a chance.

I get that you may think it's unlikely that people could accidentally steal but do you think there is a reason the toggle shouldn't be added other than "players could just not steal".

No, it's E, then R... Unless you happen to have the item highlighted with your mouse, but does that actually happen to anyone when you're running around?

I stand corrected. at this point looting is done with muscle memory for me so I don't pay much attention. But corrected I am still!

Gidorick · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I'm really struggling to see the problem here. Either:

1. Don't indiscriminately take stuff in towns.
2. If you "accidentally" hit E on something, then pay your 89 gold to the guards and be on your way. Consider it a cheap lesson in being more careful with your fingers.

I've actually come around to this method of thought. I played two characters last night. Dar Ja'Taba, my Khajiit, who will steal an old man's cane if he thinks he can make 10 coin off of it and Gidorick Malborn, a magic hating honorable Redguard. I had no problems NOT sterling as the Redguard. I just stopped looking through people's stuff. Changed my playstyle.

DanielMaxwell · March 2015

Players who do not want to "steal" from NPC owned objects should be able to check a box that prevents them from interacting with objects owned by NPCs thereby confirming their choice to not be a thief under the justice system

Shlankwald · March 2015

There are loads of containers in the world that aren't considered stolen, you just can no longer run around town and just open everything for easy mats. Random little camps, boxes outside cities, and some of the smaller villages can still be looted fairly easily, and there is a lot less ingredients required to offset it.

Provisioning was WAY too easy in the past, I had it maxed out by level 20, and i didn't even have to go out of my way, I just turned on auto loot and looted containers that happened to be withing proximity as I passed.

newtinmpls · March 2015

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Players who do not want to "steal" from NPC owned objects should be able to check a box that prevents them from interacting with objects owned by NPCs thereby confirming their choice to not be a thief under the justice system

I can see the addon should be called "external conscience"

Morshire · March 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Players who do not want to "steal" from NPC owned objects should be able to check a box that prevents them from interacting with objects owned by NPCs thereby confirming their choice to not be a thief under the justice system

I can see the addon should be called "external conscience"

^^^^^^ LOL. That got a chuckle out of me.

DanielMaxwell · March 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Players who do not want to "steal" from NPC owned objects should be able to check a box that prevents them from interacting with objects owned by NPCs thereby confirming their choice to not be a thief under the justice system

I can see the addon should be called "external conscience"

internet latency and lag are things completely under each individual players complete control right?

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Players who do not want to "steal" from NPC owned objects should be able to check a box that prevents them from interacting with objects owned by NPCs thereby confirming their choice to not be a thief under the justice system

I can see the addon should be called "external conscience"

internet latency and lag are things completely under each individual players complete control right?

Uh, @DanielMaxwell , how exactly does latency and lag make you accidentally open a container and take the contents?

Don't look in the box, and you won't be tempted to take things from the box.

Unless you have autoloot enabled (and it's already a checkbox, default off), there is no need for this.

DanielMaxwell · March 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Players who do not want to "steal" from NPC owned objects should be able to check a box that prevents them from interacting with objects owned by NPCs thereby confirming their choice to not be a thief under the justice system

I can see the addon should be called "external conscience"

internet latency and lag are things completely under each individual players complete control right?

Uh, @DanielMaxwell , how exactly does latency and lag make you accidentally open a container and take the contents?

Don't look in the box, and you won't be tempted to take things from the box.

Unless you have autoloot enabled (and it's already a checkbox, default off), there is no need for this.

have you ever had animations go off after a fight is completed ?
I have had those animations go off after the fight has completed and I used a waypoint to travel to another location , pop up at the destination and do a whirlwind that was from a fight 30 seconds ago , using mouse cursor to click on the onscreen buttons for the waypoint transit .

I have also had doors , and lootable objects open and close before i could do anything due to latency simply because I hit the "E" button twice . If you happen to have your mouse cursor over the the loot list field and highlighting something in that field you will grab it by accident .

ZOS , the various ISPs , and us (the players) can only do so much about latency and lag .

Slurg · March 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Players who do not want to "steal" from NPC owned objects should be able to check a box that prevents them from interacting with objects owned by NPCs thereby confirming their choice to not be a thief under the justice system

I can see the addon should be called "external conscience"

It would seem some people do need extra mechanics in place to protect them from themselves if they really don't want to steal but they cant seem to stop themselves.

Asking ZOS to add this feature probably would take months but I like this idea of an add on performing this feature for the minority of players who don't want to steal ever but sometimes find themselves stealing anyway, somehow.

I wonder is an add on for this possible?