Is stealing and murdering a good thing for the game?

Arki · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

rhaulikkoub17_ESO wrote: »

Is it good for the game? Probably, from a purely business point of view. Obviously lots of players like it, including certain demographics that are probably a larger part of the target audience for the new payment model.

Is the initial version well implemented? Hardly. It's WAY too easy to go around slaughtering civilians in broad daylight. If you want to get away with murder in the game it should be much harder. As it is implemented currently it's not very interesting IMO.

You must be playing it safe in the lower-level cities. Once you hit VR, a lot of civilians can't be one-shotted, and most of them are around witnesses. It's hard enough to get away with pickpocketing, but murder is just a surefire way to rack up a huge bounty.

The bounties are probably ok, but I think they go away MUCH too quickly. I killed a guy, then just wandered a bit astray looking for some mats and suddenly I was redeemed... Bounties should fade really slowly imo. There is much reward in stealing and killing, but very little real risk.

Getting rid of bounty could be an incentive to do special kinds of quests also. Either some kind of service to the king/queen of your factions (like the foreign legion lol) or maybe some dodgy quests for the theives guild resulting in the bounty being handled for you / bribed away.

Rikal · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

rhaulikkoub17_ESO wrote: »

Is it good for the game? Probably, from a purely business point of view. Obviously lots of players like it, including certain demographics that are probably a larger part of the target audience for the new payment model.

Is the initial version well implemented? Hardly. It's WAY too easy to go around slaughtering civilians in broad daylight. If you want to get away with murder in the game it should be much harder. As it is implemented currently it's not very interesting IMO.

You must be playing it safe in the lower-level cities. Once you hit VR, a lot of civilians can't be one-shotted, and most of them are around witnesses. It's hard enough to get away with pickpocketing, but murder is just a surefire way to rack up a huge bounty.

I haven't killed a soul. I have merely been observing. As you say, it's the low level cities of which I speak, and the onslaught by high level toons looking to rack up easy kills.

GreySix · March 2015

Brother_Numsie wrote: »

It's an Elder Scrolls thing.

Just a shame I can't move and hide the bodies....or you know, put them in interesting positions.....

....

Yes, it is an Elder Scrolls thing, but the penalties for getting caught in previous TES titles could be much more painful than in ESO.

newtinmpls · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

I guess you have to be careful using aoe and range in cities now

Or go into your gameplay and set it so you don't kill innocents.

LariahHunding · March 2015

A bunch of closet psychopaths and sociopaths.

cozmon3c_ESO · March 2015

CadenceRowan wrote: »

I don't really understand why stealing and murdering is fun myself, but a lot of players seem to like it (I find that disturbing, but that's just me).

No one is forcing you to do it though, so if you don't like stealing and murdering, don't do it.

people do it in games because there is no real consequence like in real life. its like hmm what would it be like to kill someone (pvp), what would be like to steal this guys stuff from his pockets.

bedlom · March 2015

It's great that it is in the game now, can't wait for TG and DB now.

Only thing that is bugging me, is the constant dead bodies everywhere. Even after that npc has come back to life.

dawnhawk · March 2015

Brother_Numsie wrote: »

It's an Elder Scrolls thing.

Just a shame I can't move and hide the bodies....or you know, put them in interesting positions.....

....

This made my laugh. My partner has been luring npcs whenever he fails to pickpocket and they attack him into backalleys before he kills them. He claims its because he doesn't want to leave a dead body in the middle of the street for someone to have to "clean up". My response was "so...you want to leave them to decay in an alley where they can start some kind of mutant plague?!"

Xendyn · March 2015

dawnhawk wrote: »

Brother_Numsie wrote: »

It's an Elder Scrolls thing.

Just a shame I can't move and hide the bodies....or you know, put them in interesting positions.....

....

This made my laugh. My partner has been luring npcs whenever he fails to pickpocket and they attack him into backalleys before he kills them. He claims its because he doesn't want to leave a dead body in the middle of the street for someone to have to "clean up". My response was "so...you want to leave them to decay in an alley where they can start some kind of mutant plague?!"

LOL...genuine lol there, thx for the chuckle

IrishGirlGamer · March 2015

Okay, seriously?

So there I was, yanked from my quiet life in the court at Daggerfall into the dark realms of Molag Bal, only to see some apparition appear in front of me telling me I have to escape. In my escape, I kill several - no, let's be honest, dozens 'cause I'm trying to level up, right? - of people just like me who are otherwise innocent but through the machinations of Molag Bal, have been turned into flesh eating zombies. I don't even try to spare them. I don't give them a second thought. I cut them down like overgrown weeds.

With the Imperial Throne empty, I find my home invaded by privateers and soldiers from other factions, by cults and cultures who are striving for their own version of self-preservation. Perhaps if I paused for a moment, amidst the flashing of blades and clashing of shields, to think about the fight from their point of view, I might feel a tiny bit of remorse. But I don't. I kill them without any thought other than how many more dead do I have to stack up like empty beer cans at a frat party before I get to level 15 ...

And to make the situation even more intolerable, the economic situation in Tamriel has driven many of the lower classes to turn to banditry to support them and their hungry children. They are basically good people, but a family has to eat, right? Well sorry Kiddo, Mom and Dad won't be coming home tonight cause I carved them up like a Thanksgiving turkey. Better start fending for yourself, orphan.

Before some bureaucrat came to his senses, I was able to walk around the world taking whatever I wanted, ignoring other peoples needs and hard labor. Cool set of armor? Thank you, sir, and no don't you dare expect payment. You're private recipe stash? Yes, let me rummage through that. And I don't take what I need; I take everything because I'm a selfish sod that doesn't even begin to thing of other people. You got it, I want it. End of story.

And now you wonder why we do this? Why? WHY?

I can't speak for anyone else ... but I don't have a soul.

Edit: Oh and yes, it's terribly good fun!

Jaxsun · March 2015

As long as what were stealing is AP and its from the dirty reds....

I like the justice system, been good fun so far and if they add the pvp portion it will be great fun.

Jaxsun · March 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

My goal is to try to steal as much as I can without worrying about lowering my bounty. To a point where it'll inevitably get so high that other players will want to hunt me down.

I'm role-playing a thief, it's about time I can act as one.

I get a heads up practice vs the guards.

P.S. - I've been killing some livestock recently because I figured I might as well increase my provisioning.

Just curious, why does roleplaying a thief involve getting a high bounty? Are you only roleplaying a bad thief?

It's a bragging thing among some criminals.

You know, along the lines of "we're wanted men. I have the death sentence in 12 systems!"

"You'll be dead"....

GreySix · March 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

My goal is to try to steal as much as I can without worrying about lowering my bounty. To a point where it'll inevitably get so high that other players will want to hunt me down.

I'm role-playing a thief, it's about time I can act as one.

I get a heads up practice vs the guards.

P.S. - I've been killing some livestock recently because I figured I might as well increase my provisioning.

Just curious, why does roleplaying a thief involve getting a high bounty? Are you only roleplaying a bad thief?

It's a bragging thing among some criminals.

You know, along the lines of "we're wanted men. I have the death sentence in 12 systems!"

"You'll be dead"....

Ah, one of my favorite lines in Star Wars!

Islyn · March 2015

One thing is that I wish, a la Skyrim, that wanted status remained in the area where you did the crime.

(Not that I would ever crime, mind you...*whistles innocently*)

Moonscythe · March 2015

Ya know, when solo players grumble about ESO not being enough like TES they get ridiculed and laughed at not to mention preached at about how it's an MMO and that means lots of people around and we should get used to it or go back to Skyrim. Now when all those people use "it's TES" to justify all the mayhem brought in by the justice system. BUNK! While it is true those things are a part of TES, remember, TES is a single player game series. If you go on a rampage and wipe out whole cities, you don't impact my game at all. Even in Skyrim, the mayhem of dragon or other attacks was rare and controllable to some extent by the player. In ESO, your murder spree means I have to walk over all the corpses. It's almost as annoying as being run over by all the big white horses.

GreySix · March 2015

Islyn wrote: »

One thing is that I wish, a la Skyrim, that wanted status remained in the area where you did the crime.

(Not that I would ever crime, mind you...*whistles innocently*)

Meh, in Oblivion you were wanted everywhere for a crime, but suppose they could make it an area thing in ESO, encompassing several cities and towns.

Tapio75 · March 2015

You got bashed by guards too many times? Learn from your mistakes

Dont worry though, PVP part will come and people will join the guards hunting criminals

UrQuan · March 2015

GreySix wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

One thing is that I wish, a la Skyrim, that wanted status remained in the area where you did the crime.

(Not that I would ever crime, mind you...*whistles innocently*)

Meh, in Oblivion you were wanted everywhere for a crime, but suppose they could make it an area thing in ESO, encompassing several cities and towns.

Even just an alliance-specific thing would be nice. As it stands, I can rack up a bounty killing citizens in Daggerfall, head over to Elden Root, and get attacked by the guards for the crime of killing their enemies.

There would definitely be additional overhead and complexity involved in making the bounties specific to the areas where you commit the crimes, though, so I can understand why they implemented it the way they did.

abuniffpreub18_ESO · March 2015

I don't really understand why stealing and murdering is fun myself, but a lot of players seem to like it (I find that disturbing, but that's just me).

No one is forcing you to do it though, so if you don't like stealing and murdering, don't do it.

I agree. I wish they would put an Opt Out option in the settings.

There is, it's in the gameplay menu, you can turn the option to kill innocents off (Should be defaulted to not kill, imo). As far as the stealing goes, just don't do it. You can go out of town and get your provisioning mats and motifs.[/quote]

I turned that option off. As far as going out of town I went to a couple places that had quite a few barrels and crates to loot but somehow mysteriously over night they all became empty and any houses near them you now have to break into. As far as mats go I put my provisioner into semi retirement. I'll buy food from the guild traders.

I've been here since day one and a couple months ago I bought my second account. I use the second one to test different builds on. I'm not planning on going anywhere, I'm paying subs on both games and that won't change.

Like someone said here, play it like it's a new game you just bought. I'm just wondering how often I'll have to play it like it's a new game I just bought.

egosumacunnus · March 2015

Yes it is a good thing it makes the world more visceral, this isn't WoW, ES has always been quite dark.

dawnhawk · March 2015

Moonscythe wrote: »

If you go on a rampage and wipe out whole cities, you don't impact my game at all. Even in Skyrim, the mayhem of dragon or other attacks was rare and controllable to some extent by the player. In ESO, your murder spree means I have to walk over all the corpses. It's almost as annoying as being run over by all the big white horses.

I would say they still aren't "impacting your game at all". In Skyrim if a dragon or vamp takes out a quest giver you are hooped - reload and hope it doesn't happen again if you still have the quest / haven't gotten the quest yet.

In this...the impacts you list are...aesthetic at best? It's not like anyone can kill an npc you actually have an invested interest in. They aren't killing quest givers or vendors (which can happen in WoW or other MMOs). It actually DOES sound like your issues are with MMOs in general and you just don't like having anyone else in your game ("get off my lawn" syndrome).

CadenceRowan · March 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

CadenceRowan wrote: »

I don't really understand why stealing and murdering is fun myself, but a lot of players seem to like it (I find that disturbing, but that's just me).

No one is forcing you to do it though, so if you don't like stealing and murdering, don't do it.

people do it in games because there is no real consequence like in real life. its like hmm what would it be like to kill someone (pvp), what would be like to steal this guys stuff from his pockets.

And that would be my point...I don't really wonder about what it would be like to kill someone or steal their stuff. To each, their own, I guess.

Gix · March 2015

Moonscythe wrote: »

Ya know, when solo players grumble about ESO not being enough like TES they get ridiculed and laughed at not to mention preached at about how it's an MMO and that means lots of people around and we should get used to it or go back to Skyrim. Now when all those people use "it's TES" to justify all the mayhem brought in by the justice system. BUNK! While it is true those things are a part of TES, remember, TES is a single player game series. If you go on a rampage and wipe out whole cities, you don't impact my game at all. Even in Skyrim, the mayhem of dragon or other attacks was rare and controllable to some extent by the player. In ESO, your murder spree means I have to walk over all the corpses. It's almost as annoying as being run over by all the big white horses.

It's a TES games where people play in the same playground. How is that hard to grasp?

You'll only get the "This is an MMO" argument if you're asking for your own little playground or anything that contradicts the idea of playing with the other kids. You just need to learn to play with other kids.

The Justice system does not contradict traditional TES gameplay. As a matter of fact is reinforce freedom. With time, the entire thing will calm down and other people will be able to involve themselves in the law-enforcement... reinforcing the MMO aspect.

I like being immersed in a game but some people take it too far. If the city is filled with rampaging criminals, then the city is filled with rampaging criminals. Role-play THAT.

CadenceRowan wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

CadenceRowan wrote: »

I don't really understand why stealing and murdering is fun myself, but a lot of players seem to like it (I find that disturbing, but that's just me).

No one is forcing you to do it though, so if you don't like stealing and murdering, don't do it.

people do it in games because there is no real consequence like in real life. its like hmm what would it be like to kill someone (pvp), what would be like to steal this guys stuff from his pockets.

And that would be my point...I don't really wonder about what it would be like to kill someone or steal their stuff. To each, their own, I guess.

Have you ever played Cops & Robbers as a kid? It's kind of the same thing except you don't have to argue over who shot who... the game does it for you. For some, it has nothing to do with morals or consequences, but more about play and being a participant.

I'm not stealing stuff to make your experience miserable, I'm stealing stuff because:
1) I want to see how much I can get away with.
2) to create emergent gameplay... which I find is far more entertaining than simply following a marker to complete a quest.

CadenceRowan · March 2015

CadenceRowan wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

CadenceRowan wrote: »

I don't really understand why stealing and murdering is fun myself, but a lot of players seem to like it (I find that disturbing, but that's just me).

No one is forcing you to do it though, so if you don't like stealing and murdering, don't do it.

people do it in games because there is no real consequence like in real life. its like hmm what would it be like to kill someone (pvp), what would be like to steal this guys stuff from his pockets.

And that would be my point...I don't really wonder about what it would be like to kill someone or steal their stuff. To each, their own, I guess.

Have you ever played Cops & Robbers as a kid? It's kind of the same thing except you don't have to argue over who shot who... the game does it for you. For some, it has nothing to do with morals or consequences, but more about play and being a participant.

I'm not stealing stuff to make your experience miserable, I'm stealing stuff because:
1) I want to see how much I can get away with.
2) to create emergent gameplay... which I find is far more entertaining than simply following a marker to complete a quest.

For the record, I have no problem with you stealing stuff, that does not affect me at all. I just don't understand the appeal; I definitely have no interest in murdering NPCs (and yes, I have set the option to not kill innocents).

I don't recall every playing cops & robbers; if I did, I suspect I would have been on the cop side. I did try stealing stuff a couple of times on PTS. There was no one around to see me, I got away clean, but it bothered me so much to have stolen stuff in my inventory that I ended up dropping it right away.

What I'm saying is, I can't relate. It doesn't seem fun to me, it seems stressful. And it is totally semantics. I've been doing it all along, looting from houses while the owner was right there in the room. But now there is a big red prompt telling me that it is stealing (i.e. A BAD THING), and I can't bring myself to do it (never mind that the game is encouraging you to do it, since there is a whole skill line). Maybe that will wear off if I get desperate for recipes or something, but I'm pretty sure I'll never kill an NPC for no good reason. I'll kill things that are trying to kill me; otherwise I'm a peaceful sort.

I suppose I do sort of get the appeal of beating the system, or getting away with something, I'm just saying that it's not for me.

bethsheba · March 2015

Tamanous wrote: »

Players are getting used to it. Wait it out.

Only the kiddies who have zero concept or role play (this is an rpg mmo btw ... you are SUPPOSED to care about the world you are in) are going around killing everything like ants on the ground. Hopefully ZOS makes it even more brutal on these type of players to get it their heads to give a crap about the world they are in.

No gold to pay fines? DON'T BREAK THE DAMN LAW MOMOS!!! You break the law and then complain the penalties are not fun? Do you hear yourself? By this logic every criminal in our jail system in the real world is sitting around complaining that it isn't fun. No ****ing kidding Sherlock.

I fully expect such a major change to the game will be tweaked for some time to come. I applaud the attempt at the very least but where systems like this fail is ALWAYS due to the players who refuse to play along. It's like that player who refuses to take a board game serious and just ruins it for everyone by doing stupid moves every turn. Play along or leave. Pretty simple. If you want to be a criminal stop complaining that there are drawbacks. There are legitimate complaints to be made of course that can hopefully be patch corrected.

I'd call this system a pretty decent first go around though. So far I consider this patch 2 steps forward, one step back. Perfectly acceptable by today's mmo standards which typically slit their own throats as development goes on. ZOS will only fail themselves if their new B2P model becomes corrupt and puts the game into maintenance mode instead of progresses it.

Well put. I am a hardcore rper in this game. I have to admit (not rpers likely won't get this) I loved the game because it was the most realistic (as in not cartooney wow looking) fantasy mmo out. I have made quite a good number of connections with other rpers. That immersion (as of now) has been lost for me. Bodies laying everywhere, guards running all over the place, in town battles, npcs respawning with their not cold yet corpses still there, it kind of ruins it for me. I just don't feel like playing now, but there isn't anything else out there as an option that was this good. I hope it does die down, I also hope they continue to improve it making it much much harder to commit crimes rampantly.

dawnhawk · March 2015

I think the issue at hand may be the wording used. It's not necessarily a question of "wondering what it would be like". Anyone who tabletop rpgs (D&D, Savage Worlds, etc) or LARPS may create a character for the point of just "not playing to type". I don't WANT to imprint my norms, mores and ethics onto my character necesssarily. My Character isn't ME. My Character is My Character.

I'd equate more to getting engrossed in a character on a TV - I may NEVER agree with the ethics of Mr Gold (One upon a time) or Tony Soprano (Sopranos) or Lennie Janowich (Sons of Anarchy)...doesn't mean I can't enjoy the stories, and love seeing what HAPPENS to the characters as events play out. Doesn't mean I "wonder what it would be like" to wash the blood off of my hands after stabbing because they slighted me in some way. Pretty sure THAT would be awful - don't need to wonder at all.

Islyn · March 2015

GreySix wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

One thing is that I wish, a la Skyrim, that wanted status remained in the area where you did the crime.

(Not that I would ever crime, mind you...*whistles innocently*)

Meh, in Oblivion you were wanted everywhere for a crime, but suppose they could make it an area thing in ESO, encompassing several cities and towns.

Yeah I know - but I want it now!

Signed,
Miss Veruca Salt

Messy1 · March 2015

Orchish wrote: »

I murdered the population of towns in Morrowind,Oblivion and Skyrim. Now it's ESO's time.

LOL

1ne2woBe · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Is it fun?

Indeed!

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Is it realistic?

As opposed to what exactly?

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

This system should not have been put in place like this, where the guards are the police.

... And what exactly are the guard's duties then....?

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

It should only be implemented as a player vs. player Bounty system.

That is not within this specific update.

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Do a crime, get spotted doing it and get a Bounty on your head. Not that you have to pay, but a Bounty that
goes to the player who kills you.

Ummm... You do get killed... If you decide not to pay... No? Run, save money, and do crimes better to not get caught/killed, or pay to continue doing crimes within their city. I believe the guards are a bit too easy on us, no?

Kronosphere · March 2015

CadenceRowan wrote: »

I don't really understand why stealing and murdering is fun myself, but a lot of players seem to like it (I find that disturbing, but that's just me).

No one is forcing you to do it though, so if you don't like stealing and murdering, don't do it.

u do realise peoples morals in a game dont match up to what they want to do in real life right..? or that the character you see in the game arent real? just checking. =P