Forced to specialize?

Bulldog1205 · March 2015

With the addition of CPs I feel like it is going to be much harder to play multiples roles. Before the only bonuses that were attached to a character "permanently" were attribute points. Everything else, such as armor bonuses/food buffs/etc, was easily changed out. This meant I could go from a bow to a tank to a healer to a destruction staff with the click of a few buttons. I loved this about the game and how I enough skill points to invest in whatever I wanted.

Assigning these new CPs I now feel like I have to make a permanent choice of how I want to specialize. If I want to distribute points into light/heavy attack damage for all the different weapons I use it's going to cost me 4x the CPs as someone who chooses a single weapon. Same with choosing between weapon crit or spell crib, and so on.

Am I right about this? Do I now have to decide for good whether I want to be a stamina or a magika build? Whether I want a healing buff or damage buff? If I decided to stay balanced am I going to essentially suck at everything compared to those with the same xp as me?

Flaminir · March 2015

At the start yes...

Limited CP & you will have to make a choice. There are certain passives that will be very strong, so pick your tree & load up to get the passives you want. (EG if you are a DPS then everybody will be piling into the tree to get the 12% crit bonus unlocked).

Over time you'll earn enough CP to invest in other areas and diversify your build....

But yep, especially in the beginning I reckon it will be better to pick a path and head down it for a while before branching off.

But none of it is set in stone... you can always re-spec.

Gix · March 2015

Well that's a given. The advantages of a specialist is that he or she is using less resources... but the specialist is a one-trick pony.

The only problem I can see with the changes is that they'll be less tanks and healers. Having more options was good.

@Flaminir brings up a good point. CP accessibility will increase over time much like skills were when you were level 5-10.

WillhelmBlack · March 2015

You will have to go full stam or magic to do the most damage in a second, yes. Hybrids are still strong and more survivable though.

You're not gonna be everyones best friend in PvE dungeons but in PvP it's the opposite, people in the Alliance war want you to survive and sometimes play multiple roles.

...and Champion Points can be re-assigned on the fly so I've been told. So you're never stuck with those.

MissBizz · March 2015

Unfortunately I do not have an answer for you but am wondering the same things.

Before 1.6 I had decided to try to make my templar healer also a viable tank with switching around my skills, gear, and buffs. (I had more than enough skill points as well)

Now looking into 1.6, I have decided to stop trying this, it just seems the gear, enchants, and food buffs won't cut it. We were also cut back on our power, to leave room to grow with CP.. but unfortunately to me that seems to me that I won't be able to be a tank and healer. I need to choose healer CP or tank CP. If I choose both I'll end up being lackluster in both roles.

yodased · March 2015

you can respec champ points anywhere. Its 3k for 70. If you want to switch from tank to heals it will cost a bit of money at the start, but its not like its permanent.

You don't even need to go anywhere, just do it in the dungeon if you want.

Majeure · March 2015

Well there's not only the CP, but also a reduced skill point cap with Legerdemain introduced and no additional skill points to go along with it, and on top of that the new stamina morph choices, and with 1.6 I'll personally be picking up the last remaining crafting (Provisioning), oh and don't forget the removed softcaps so now you really need to respec those attribute points, so no more tanking dungeons or off-healing Cyrodiil it looks like. ^^

- respec attributes
- respec morphs or all skills depending on # of points used
- respec CP
- then do all the usual stuff like gear, swap skills around, stone boon, etc.

Cuyler · March 2015

yodased wrote: »

you can respec champ points anywhere. Its 3k for 70. If you want to switch from tank to heals it will cost a bit of money at the start, but its not like its permanent.

You don't even need to go anywhere, just do it in the dungeon if you want.

Just give me 20 min to move these CPs around. Hoping someone comes up with an addon to facilitate this easier.

Slurg · March 2015

Yes it appears that at least for the short run, those who prefer a hybrid/ balanced playstyle will be at a huge disadvantage competitively, compared to those who pick one speciality build and stick all their points into it. At least that will apply for more competitive content like trials. So I guess the question is whether you play for fun or play to compete. If you play to compete, you're going to be more limited in your choices, but wasn't it that way to some extent before?

And yes if you pick one path and don't like it you can always respec your champion points.

f047ys3v3n · March 2015

Realistically, Yep, one roll fore you and you and you.

Being able to switch rolls from tank to dps or heals to dps on the fly was one of the great strengths of ESO. Given the lack of particularly many of those strengths as well as the "play the way you want" claims made it is sad to see it go. It will now take substantial time and gold to change around from one armor weight to another and from one roll to another because champion points must be completely respeced to be viable in different rolls. I doubt many players will go through the bother to do this much.

I agree that it will be very difficult to find tanks in particular as a player adopting that roll is basically consigning them self to slow CP gain as grinding and questing is slow for tanks. It may also become hard to find healers for this reason coupled with the newfound Templar DPS competitiveness. I don't think it will have much effect on PVP though so from the standpoint of ZOS no problems, move along.

yodased · March 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

you can respec champ points anywhere. Its 3k for 70. If you want to switch from tank to heals it will cost a bit of money at the start, but its not like its permanent.

You don't even need to go anywhere, just do it in the dungeon if you want.

Just give me 20 min to move these CPs around. Hoping someone comes up with an addon to facilitate this easier.

Hey i never said it would be FAST

pmn100b16_ESO · March 2015

This was bought up on the pts forum. If you want to regularly vary your build and be competitive at it, or say you want to go from a stam pvp build to a magicka based pve build, you're going to want to change up your attributes (due to soft cap removal and its impact on dmg output) and your champ points. Thats 6000g. If you do this daily, say play some pvp in the afternoon with a stam build, then switch to a magicka build for night time trial runs, you're paying 12000g a day to respec.

For a game that says 'play as you want' they sure do their best to make you play only one way.

timidobserver · March 2015

3k to respec your champion points isn't that bad.

Gargragrond · March 2015

Yes, it's a bit of a pain. I used to be able to switch between pvp and dungeon tanking by simply changing my armor - now it seems I need full attribute and cp respec. I don't mind paying 5k+ for a dungeon run now and then, but it's just so time consuming, and when someone in the group quits half way, it was all in vain. At least allow us to respec attributes without traveling to that altar.

MissBizz · March 2015

yodased wrote: »

you can respec champ points anywhere. Its 3k for 70. If you want to switch from tank to heals it will cost a bit of money at the start, but its not like its permanent.

You don't even need to go anywhere, just do it in the dungeon if you want.

I have never respecced my skill points for this reason. I'm frugal. (Yet I still don't have a million gold, what? haha)

I will be going the way of the healer, but I'm disappointed that now that I felt I had enough skill points to also become an effective tank, I'm set back waiting until I have enough CP.

I only received 45 as I'm a slow mover.. so looks like I will be tanking sometime in the first quarter of 2017.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

yodased wrote: »

you can respec champ points anywhere. Its 3k for 70. If you want to switch from tank to heals it will cost a bit of money at the start, but its not like its permanent.

You don't even need to go anywhere, just do it in the dungeon if you want.

That's not bad, considering it will eventually settle out.

@yodased , I assume that is based on a per-point cost like the other respecs?

yodased · March 2015

yeah sho nuff

yodased · March 2015

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

This was bought up on the pts forum. If you want to regularly vary your build and be competitive at it, or say you want to go from a stam pvp build to a magicka based pve build, you're going to want to change up your attributes (due to soft cap removal and its impact on dmg output) and your champ points. Thats 6000g. If you do this daily, say play some pvp in the afternoon with a stam build, then switch to a magicka build for night time trial runs, you're paying 12000g a day to respec.

For a game that says 'play as you want' they sure do their best to make you play only one way.

Can we just move past the play as you want thing? I mean its dead. We get it, marketing killed themselves.

You can play as you want, but if you want to completely change your build to something absolutely 100% off a chosen role, you gotta pay for it.

When you get 3600 champion points you can faceroll everything, until then play as you want with 8 characters.

Honestly you would have to respec in 1.5 in that situation anyway, because you would have points in magic then put them in stamina.

Hybrid builds are gone for now, until you get more champ points pick a role and enjoy it. Being ok at everything is not as good as being great at one thing.

Really though, can we drop the anger at play as you want? Its so 2014.

Khami · March 2015

Gix wrote: »

Well that's a given. The advantages of a specialist is that he or she is using less resources... but the specialist is a one-trick pony.

The only problem I can see with the changes is that they'll be less tanks and healers. Having more options was good.

@Flaminir brings up a good point. CP accessibility will increase over time much like skills were when you were level 5-10.

This game lacks good healers and tanks before this update. We'll have less now to choose from after this update.

I'll use my Khajiiti Nightblade as an example. At one point , my NB could do all three roles and all I needed to do was change the mundus stone to fit the role I'm doing. This alt is also a master crafter with all points in crafts expect I'm only using 1 point for keeneye and zero points into snakebite. Every other passive in the crafts are maxed out.

This leaves me enough points to put points into 3 different weapons and 2 of the armors, plus any other skills I need to do any role. The CP is now forcing me to choose. Do I work on a stam only build or a magicka build. I can not flip between them ans still be effective and I shouldn't need to resepec the CP every time I want to change roles.

I should not have to stop tanking or healing because those roles got weaker, because of the CP being added. I shouldn't need to grind the same content we've had for the past six months for another 3-4 months to get my Khajiiti NB back to where it was before 1.6. This was poorly thought out by the devs. They seem to think PC aren't bored of the little content they've given us to date. Which is 1 full zone(took 2 updates to add it), 3 raids and 2 vet dungeons. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, that's a lot of stuff in a year. Not really, it's a very pathetic amount of content. I don't want to hear, it's a new game. They were demoing content last year during conventions they've never added and they'll demo those same things this year. Count on it.

SW:TOR has added that much since December, minus one raid. they only added two. However, they did add 2 new planets. I'm willing to bet SW:TOR adds another planet before ESO releases the consoles in June, which leaves the PC players with nothing new for 10 months or more depending on when they release the next update(July will be 10 from 1.4, which is the last major update. Adding 1 vet dungeon isn't worth tooting your over). Next planet is due this spring. with a promotion going on now to get ready for it.

The fact they're making us grind the same content without anything new for this update is insulting. Stealing stuff I was able to take before isn't new. We'll be grinding the same stuff until July if not later. The content is boring, I'm an altaholic in ohter games, but I can't for the live of me get another class to V14. As often as I play, I should have at minimum have 3 classes to V14, not 1.

The lack of content has driven me way. I was bored with 1.4 by the end of Oct, I let my sub expire shortly after 1.5 went live the first week in November. I returned in January to see the junk they call sets from the undaunted pledges. The 5-piece Undaunted sets are junk. I'm not going to run a dungeon 100 times hoping to get the helmet I want with the right armor and trait on it. When I already have 6 or more of them with the wrong trait/armor. Who are the devs kidding?

You can't farm for the shoulders, you must get lucky with the gold key chest. Believe it or not, that type of setup will never get a player like myself to run them every day. Especially since I was bored with them by August and the devs made them relevant in September. Too late, I'm already bored of some dungeons and hating others.