Huntler wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Removed Overcharge from the game.

The only stats that now cap are Impenetrable, reducing the Critical Strike bonus damage to 0%, and Armor and Spell Resistance, which are capped at 50% mitigation.

So, instead of Nightblade's buff adding 100% chance to crit on target effectively negating Impenetrable in the old system, Nightblades will instead have a buff that gives 100% chance to do 0 extra damage on a full Impenetrable build.

Hope that Reinforced really is the new meta, or critting is going to be rather boring.

No.... he just clearly said there is a hard cap and even stacking full impenetrable doesn't negate all the extra crit damage. Read the patch notes and all will be understood.

The quoted text in my post was from the patch notes, and states that capping Impenetrable reduces Critical Strike bonus damage to 0%.

Can you grab me the quote from the portion of the notes you are referring to?

ctrl + F to search for Impenetrable returned no other results.

I am aware, do the math on the equation they gave in the same section you quoted which goes to 3200 impen needed to 100% mitigate all crit damage. 1 legendary piece of gear gives 200 impen... do the math.... impen gear alone doesn't get you anywhere close to 100% mitigating crit damage.

Doesn't the champion system account for some of this too? You cant just eliminate crit damage by gear alone. You have to devote CP into it as well. You have to work towards it, not just visit the crafting table.

Working as intended.

Its not possible even with max CP, only possible by running construct gear as well. And no it is not working as intended. Why would anyone use a trait for defense such as Impen when there are two other traits that mitigate far more? Reinforced helps mitigation of both physical and spells always (not just crits) and nirn is 50% stronger against spells than reinforce but no help to physical attacks. Both block far more damage than impen and thats not even taking into account that crits only have a chance to be applied.

Thats not working as intended, that bloody well doesn't make sense mathematically.

Wait, so Reinforced as a Trait also scales up Spell Resistance now?
Or is it Reinforced for physical attacks and Nirnhoned for spells?

c0rp wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Removed Overcharge from the game.

The only stats that now cap are Impenetrable, reducing the Critical Strike bonus damage to 0%, and Armor and Spell Resistance, which are capped at 50% mitigation.

So, instead of Nightblade's buff adding 100% chance to crit on target effectively negating Impenetrable in the old system, Nightblades will instead have a buff that gives 100% chance to do 0 extra damage on a full Impenetrable build.

Hope that Reinforced really is the new meta, or critting is going to be rather boring.

No.... he just clearly said there is a hard cap and even stacking full impenetrable doesn't negate all the extra crit damage. Read the patch notes and all will be understood.

The quoted text in my post was from the patch notes, and states that capping Impenetrable reduces Critical Strike bonus damage to 0%.

Can you grab me the quote from the portion of the notes you are referring to?

ctrl + F to search for Impenetrable returned no other results.

I am aware, do the math on the equation they gave in the same section you quoted which goes to 3200 impen needed to 100% mitigate all crit damage. 1 legendary piece of gear gives 200 impen... do the math.... impen gear alone doesn't get you anywhere close to 100% mitigating crit damage.

Doesn't the champion system account for some of this too? You cant just eliminate crit damage by gear alone. You have to devote CP into it as well. You have to work towards it, not just visit the crafting table.

Working as intended.

Don't forget the champion system rewards both sides of the equation. Elfborn Completely Cancels out Resistant with all else being equal.

sKorcheD wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Removed Overcharge from the game.

The only stats that now cap are Impenetrable, reducing the Critical Strike bonus damage to 0%, and Armor and Spell Resistance, which are capped at 50% mitigation.

So, instead of Nightblade's buff adding 100% chance to crit on target effectively negating Impenetrable in the old system, Nightblades will instead have a buff that gives 100% chance to do 0 extra damage on a full Impenetrable build.

Hope that Reinforced really is the new meta, or critting is going to be rather boring.

No.... he just clearly said there is a hard cap and even stacking full impenetrable doesn't negate all the extra crit damage. Read the patch notes and all will be understood.

The quoted text in my post was from the patch notes, and states that capping Impenetrable reduces Critical Strike bonus damage to 0%.

Can you grab me the quote from the portion of the notes you are referring to?

ctrl + F to search for Impenetrable returned no other results.

I am aware, do the math on the equation they gave in the same section you quoted which goes to 3200 impen needed to 100% mitigate all crit damage. 1 legendary piece of gear gives 200 impen... do the math.... impen gear alone doesn't get you anywhere close to 100% mitigating crit damage.

Doesn't the champion system account for some of this too? You cant just eliminate crit damage by gear alone. You have to devote CP into it as well. You have to work towards it, not just visit the crafting table.

Working as intended.

Its not possible even with max CP, only possible by running construct gear as well. And no it is not working as intended. Why would anyone use a trait for defense such as Impen when there are two other traits that mitigate far more? Reinforced helps mitigation of both physical and spells always (not just crits) and nirn is 50% stronger against spells than reinforce but no help to physical attacks. Both block far more damage than impen and thats not even taking into account that crits only have a chance to be applied.

Thats not working as intended, that bloody well doesn't make sense mathematically.

Wait, so Reinforced as a Trait also scales up Spell Resistance now?
Or is it Reinforced for physical attacks and Nirnhoned for spells?

I believe 1 pt armor == 1 pt spell resist now.

Yeah, it does.

My error for forgetting that Reinforced applies the bonus to the piece of gear itself, rather than the character's overall armour stat separately.

Armitas wrote: »

Are shields based off magicka instead of health for everyone now or just sorcs?

Just sorcs and annulement.

Samadhi wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Removed Overcharge from the game.

The only stats that now cap are Impenetrable, reducing the Critical Strike bonus damage to 0%, and Armor and Spell Resistance, which are capped at 50% mitigation.

So, instead of Nightblade's buff adding 100% chance to crit on target effectively negating Impenetrable in the old system, Nightblades will instead have a buff that gives 100% chance to do 0 extra damage on a full Impenetrable build.

Hope that Reinforced really is the new meta, or critting is going to be rather boring.

No.... he just clearly said there is a hard cap and even stacking full impenetrable doesn't negate all the extra crit damage. Read the patch notes and all will be understood.

The quoted text in my post was from the patch notes, and states that capping Impenetrable reduces Critical Strike bonus damage to 0%.

Can you grab me the quote from the portion of the notes you are referring to?

ctrl + F to search for Impenetrable returned no other results.

I am aware, do the math on the equation they gave in the same section you quoted which goes to 3200 impen needed to 100% mitigate all crit damage. 1 legendary piece of gear gives 200 impen... do the math.... impen gear alone doesn't get you anywhere close to 100% mitigating crit damage.

Doesn't the champion system account for some of this too? You cant just eliminate crit damage by gear alone. You have to devote CP into it as well. You have to work towards it, not just visit the crafting table.

Working as intended.

Its not possible even with max CP, only possible by running construct gear as well. And no it is not working as intended. Why would anyone use a trait for defense such as Impen when there are two other traits that mitigate far more? Reinforced helps mitigation of both physical and spells always (not just crits) and nirn is 50% stronger against spells than reinforce but no help to physical attacks. Both block far more damage than impen and thats not even taking into account that crits only have a chance to be applied.

Thats not working as intended, that bloody well doesn't make sense mathematically.

Wait, so Reinforced as a Trait also scales up Spell Resistance now?
Or is it Reinforced for physical attacks and Nirnhoned for spells?

its reinforced for both and nirn with a higher coefficient for spells.

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Reinforced is more effective than Impenetrable for reducing incoming damage, even on Light Armor.

You have to remember some pieces of armor are worth alot more armor bonus then others like the chest piece. Now if you look at the belt it gives very little armor. From what i heard the belt is still better off with imp on it. For boots and gloves it was eigther way. But for chest, and legs rienforce was teh best

You're better off not using a defensive trait for Belt and Gloves. Chest, Helm, Shoulders, Legs, and Boots should be reinforced if post-shields defence is your goal.

I had all my armor with impenetrable trait.. I think it is time to craft a new set now.

However, the big question, what is better to go for... Reinforced or Defending?

Defending also increases your armor and spell resist..

I play as a DK tank.

Any advice would be most welcome.

technohic wrote: »

Tarikko wrote: »

I had all my armor with impenetrable trait.. I think it is time to craft a new set now.

However, the big question, what is better to go for... Reinforced or Defending?

Defending also increases your armor and spell resist..

I play as a DK tank.

Any advice would be most welcome.

You don't actually chose between reinforced or defending. Reinforced is for armor. Defending is for weapons.

Opps...

Excuse my confusion

Reinforced it is

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for this post guys, it been really informative. especially ezareth's insights and leg work, as im also a sorc wondering what the hell am i supposed to be looking at now lol.

Yeah good work Ezareth. You sent me down the right direction for surviving in light armor.

I've completed MOST of my armour / magic resist calculations. Here's a link to the spreadsheets.

These are my conclusions:
1. Each 1000 Armor mitigates 1.55% of incoming physical damage.
2. Each 1000 Magic Resist mitigates 1.61% of incoming magic damage.
3. If ALL heavy armor with Reinforced is used, you will mitigate 3.63% more physical damage than otherwise.
4. If ALL heavy armor with Reinforced is used, you will mitigate 3.77% more magic damage than otherwise.

Please take a look at the raw numbers in the second sheet if you'd like to validate my calculations.

Based on my previous spreadsheet (Impenetrable and Crit calculations), and the assumption that enemies will be running between 30 and 50% crit (if not more), it seems as though Impenetrable will still mitigate more damage then Reinforced.

It is now about two hours past when I should have been asleep (I obsessed over these calculations a bit), so it's very possible I made a mistake somewhere. Please let me know if you find one and I'll review it tomorrow.

Have a good night!

Edit: Fixed short links, though full / direct links are in the post below.

Very nice! Thank you!

Talcyndl wrote: »

Glad I didn't rush to redo all my Impenetrable gear.

Consider that with armor/MR mitigation being so low right now, it's very possible that they'll improve it to be more balanced.

Talcyndl wrote: »

But as of last week the universal cry was that Impenetrable was all but useless and you should replace it with Reinforced (assuming you were going for tankiness). Looks like folks were wrong.

I believe that the universal cry came from one of Deltia's videos where they tested as soon as the patch hit. It's possible things have changed from 1.6.0 to 1.6.whateverwearenow.

I put the testing numbers in my sheet so that people could replicate them if they wanted to. If anyone does try to test the same, it's important that they drop / reset all their champion points (should any be in penetration / extra damage / resist), and both toons start naked to create a baseline. Each attack test should be done 4 times to assure that there's no accidental crit (even with 0% crit it still happens).