MornaBaine wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They should never add the guards to see vampires in stage four main reason for rp reasons and it will hurt rpers, as well as for werewolf they could do it but I would not do it if I were them. Because people could rp werewolves attacking citys and guards would ruin that. So if you see this, don't add this to the game the stage four attack. Most do not want this.

What you are failing to understand is that most players of vampires want them to be more challenging and to fit better with the lore and to be more immersive. I am a long time roleplayer myself and I lead a vampire and werewolf RP guild. Every single one of us wants this. If you start at Stage 1 it takes 3 HOURS before you hit Stage 4. Pay attention. Go feed every 3 hours. It's not that hard. Vampires SHOULD be challenging to play. Vampires SHOULD have to feed otherwise the entire mechanic is pointless. When I roleplay in cities I never let my vampire get into Stage 3. Is that inconvenient? Yes. Is it all that difficult? No.

Guards are not usually INSIDE most buildings in cities. And while I would WANT that ALL NPCs react negatively to Stage 4 vampires I think the best we can hope for is that just the guards will. If that turns out to be the case then your solution is simple. When your RP session is done, if you've not paid attention and allowed yourself to slip into Stage 4 then just open your guild screen and travel to a player who is not in a city. You'll end up at a wayshrine where you can then go snack on enemy NPCs in peace.

Well, thing is theres no blood potions, in game that you can use to reduce stage so yeah. Also this game has the really bad tendacly to kick you to login screen when zoning if in game in a zone to long so you have to relog and use fast travel or enter the dunguen again in order to play this game so yeah, I disagree, but toggable is needed if they ever add this. This would give everyone what they want, aslo they could add an option, that turns off other peoples vampirism from being shown or show them at stage two for those that find it hard to believe that most have had the option off and it will make them thing they are feeding and everyone can be happy with that as well. Theres many ways to make it the way people want it, for everyone.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They should never add the guards to see vampires in stage four main reason for rp reasons and it will hurt rpers, as well as for werewolf they could do it but I would not do it if I were them. Because people could rp werewolves attacking citys and guards would ruin that. So if you see this, don't add this to the game the stage four attack. Most do not want this.

What you are failing to understand is that most players of vampires want them to be more challenging and to fit better with the lore and to be more immersive. I am a long time roleplayer myself and I lead a vampire and werewolf RP guild. Every single one of us wants this. If you start at Stage 1 it takes 3 HOURS before you hit Stage 4. Pay attention. Go feed every 3 hours. It's not that hard. Vampires SHOULD be challenging to play. Vampires SHOULD have to feed otherwise the entire mechanic is pointless. When I roleplay in cities I never let my vampire get into Stage 3. Is that inconvenient? Yes. Is it all that difficult? No.

Guards are not usually INSIDE most buildings in cities. And while I would WANT that ALL NPCs react negatively to Stage 4 vampires I think the best we can hope for is that just the guards will. If that turns out to be the case then your solution is simple. When your RP session is done, if you've not paid attention and allowed yourself to slip into Stage 4 then just open your guild screen and travel to a player who is not in a city. You'll end up at a wayshrine where you can then go snack on enemy NPCs in peace.

I want more crippling weaknesses for vampires (and maybe for werewolves as well), but in exchange i also want more power (or at least active skills that don't suck), and more involved gameplay (currently it's just couple actives that suck, and ultimate that is either borderline broken, or useless, depending on situation/class/gear).

But the current stage increase system is bad, it's too fast, and takes too much time to go find a usable victim to sneak up on (especially so in higher levels), make it last at least twice as long to get to stage 4, and invert the time scaling (1 to 2 should take longer than 3 to 4).

But the current stage increase system is bad, it's too fast, and takes too much time to go find a usable victim to sneak up on (especially so in higher levels), make it last at least twice as long to get to stage 4, and invert the time scaling (1 to 2 should take longer than 3 to 4).[/quote]
They need to make vampires able to feed on humaniod opponents, when they are down 50% health and if they are 25 % percent below healh the feeding deals damage, to them. They can add this easy as well, also they could have an option for players not vampire have an option that they can turn on so other vampires can feed off them.

MADshadowman wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So we now know that Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves will continue to be ignored by the guards with the upcoming Justice System. This, despite Paul Sage's statement that guards "will notice" Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves and "will not like that behavior." This lead most of us to believe that Stage 4 vamps and transformed werewolves might be KOS to city guards, making them more challenging and fun (and realistic!) to play. This has been tested by players on PTS though and it's been reported that this change has NOT been made. I find this extremely disappointing. Not to mention immersion breaking. I'd love to know the reasoning behind this and if it's still on the table at all for future implementation.

Well if they did add this they better have a toggle to have it optional and I don't care how many would complain about it if they did, because they can't hurt the rp comunity like that for one if your rping, sometimes it takes hours, to finish and you are stage four, to quicky, if they did add the attack on site this would be breaking and it will hurt because some of us have vampires that are differant rp clan types that can't be noticed at all at stage four. Or any stage, and it would interupt rp like not other.

Well, the reason we want guard reactions to stage 4 vampires is for rp also. This makes it more immersive and you actually have to make a commitment to either feeding every now and then, or staying stage 4 and live with the consequences.

But i'm still not so ok with the whole kill on sight thing. Other negative reactions would be better, and maybe a 30%-50% chance to get attacked by a guard. Makes more sense to me than straight 100% KOS by every guard.

Okay this I can agree with. After all, at Stage 4 there's obviously something VERY WRONG with you but this may not translate to every single guard on the planet making the immediate connection of VAMPIRE! KILL IT! But it should be damned dangerous to just walk around a city that way. What would be REALLY cool is if they'd so something like they do with disguises. You know how when you are disguised and you see someone with a torch and you get too close you get the red danger warning? The same thing should happen with a percentage of the guards...some of them have experience with the undead and would just simply be on to you! Heck if they did it THAT way I'd be ok with it starting to happen at Stage 3!

Thevampirenight wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So we now know that Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves will continue to be ignored by the guards with the upcoming Justice System. This, despite Paul Sage's statement that guards "will notice" Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves and "will not like that behavior." This lead most of us to believe that Stage 4 vamps and transformed werewolves might be KOS to city guards, making them more challenging and fun (and realistic!) to play. This has been tested by players on PTS though and it's been reported that this change has NOT been made. I find this extremely disappointing. Not to mention immersion breaking. I'd love to know the reasoning behind this and if it's still on the table at all for future implementation.

Well if they did add this they better have a toggle to have it optional and I don't care how many would complain about it if they did, because they can't hurt the rp comunity like that for one if your rping, sometimes it takes hours, to finish and you are stage four, to quicky, if they did add the attack on site this would be breaking and it will hurt because some of us have vampires that are differant rp clan types that can't be noticed at all at stage four. Or any stage, and it would interupt rp like not other.

Well, the reason we want guard reactions to stage 4 vampires is for rp also. This makes it more immersive and you actually have to make a commitment to either feeding every now and then, or staying stage 4 and live with the consequences.

But i'm still not so ok with the whole kill on sight thing. Other negative reactions would be better, and maybe a 30%-50% chance to get attacked by a guard. Makes more sense to me than straight 100% KOS by every guard.

Okay this I can agree with. After all, at Stage 4 there's obviously something VERY WRONG with you but this may not translate to every single guard on the planet making the immediate connection of VAMPIRE! KILL IT! But it should be damned dangerous to just walk around a city that way. What would be REALLY cool is if they'd so something like they do with disguises. You know how when you are disguised and you see someone with a torch and you get too close you get the red danger warning? The same thing should happen with a percentage of the guards...some of them have experience with the undead and would just simply be on to you! Heck if they did it THAT way I'd be ok with it starting to happen at Stage 3!

In skyrim dawngaurd, they could not see that your a vampire unless they had the abilty to see through a vampires, aura, that hides them, Also if its like obivions stage four, the guards leave you alone and if you attack and kill someone then they attack you on sight without stopping wihout you feeding I can see that,. But yeah, just getting attacked at stage four would be a game killer for them to add, also because so many are at stage four. What I think they should do is add like vampire lord ult and in that form you get like a thousand bounty on you, and what they did in skyrim. or just attack on site, but they could also add a toglable option for guards to automaticaally attack you at stage four vampire, but its one of the optional parts of the justice system, also I read by some they are adding you getting attacked on site if you use a vampire abitly in towns, but Yeah, would like to see some blood potions and what Morna said options to craft them but make them the easiest potion you can make even at level one alchemy,

Dawnguard was a major game changer. Prior to that guards did attack on sight at Stage 4 I believe. Now IF ZOS would break down and actually give us the DESPERATELY NEEDED overhaul of vampires and indeed added a Vamp Lord Ult I could totally go for what you propose. But under the current state of affairs I feel Stage 4 is a reasonable point at which the guards would just go, "Oh hell no!" I'd love a return of the snarky comments from NPCs at Stage 3 and this could serve as your heads up, letting you know you might want to go feed or get the heck out of town before you enter Stage 4 where all bets are off.

As to "blood potions" I can see them working like regular potions in the game. The crappy ones you buy from vendors or the first level ones you can craft would only last half an hour and only reduce whatever your current Stage is by one. At "Consummate" purple levels they'd knock you back one Stage from whatever you are currently in and last 2 hours. Blues would do the same but only last 1 hour. Again, the idea is to make being a vampire a little more challenging.

Leave us stage 4 vamps alone in PvP!

Unless you play PvP and are at least rank 15 or higher, I'm not convinced you've spent enough time there to represent that perspective. Even though we don't agree on this topic, I admire and appreciate your passion as always.

Staying in stage 4 has a tactical advantage for 1) damage mitigation and 2) not having to constantly feed. Having to constantly feed significantly outweighs the positives of being infected. Making us KOS in Cyrodiil will make vamps singnificantly less popular for PvP IMO.

To me he was clear about what to expect in the 1.6 release being a very limited justice system. I know that when selling the justice system, which was before they had dates, they showed us the full blown fluff as would any company to get us excited.

You like myself and others may occasionally forget we're listening to the company's lead salesman. Of course we should be able to expect what he says is going to happen. But knowing his role, I would not invest too much of my emotions into it and instead save myself from frequent disappointment. No reason you should stop expecting him to do what he said ZOS would do, but it's not worth getting yourself too jacked-up over it. No one should give that much control over their quality of life to anyone .

Either way, please leave us stage 4 vamps in PvP alone!

EDIT: adjust false-postive profanity word and mispelling

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They should never add the guards to see vampires in stage four main reason for rp reasons and it will hurt rpers, as well as for werewolf they could do it but I would not do it if I were them. Because people could rp werewolves attacking citys and guards would ruin that. So if you see this, don't add this to the game the stage four attack. Most do not want this.

Wow, never thought I'd have an RP goal be aligned with PvP, but in this case it is.... very good!

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

Leave us stage 4 vamps alone in PvP!

Unless you play PvP and are at least rank 15 or higher, I'm not convinced you've spent enough time there to represent that perspective. Even though we don't agree on this topic, I admire and appreciate your passion as always.

Staying in stage 4 has a tactical advantage for 1) damage mitigation and 2) not having to constantly feed. Having to constantly feed significantly outweighs the positives of being infected. Making us KOS in Cyrodiil will make vamps singnificantly less popular for PvP IMO.

To me he was clear about what to expect in the 1.6 release being a very limited justice system. I know that when selling the justice system, which was before they had dates, they showed us the full blown *** as would any company to get us excited.

You like myself and others may occasionally forget we're listening to the company's lead salesman. Of course we should be able to expect what he says is going to happen. But knowing his role, I would not invest too much of my emotions into it and instead save myself from frequent disappointment. No reason you should stop expecting him to do what he said ZOS would do, but it's not worth getting yourself too jacked-up over it. No one should give that much control over their quality of live to anyone .

Either way, leave us stage 4 vamps in PvP alone!

First, I promise I don't lose any sleep over this stuff. LOL So no worries over my fragile emotional and mental state!
Secondly, I am at best a sporadic PvPer (I still have forward camps, be my friend! LOL) but that does not mean that I take no interest in the state of PvP in this game. No one of which I am aware, and certainly not me, has suggested that guards in Cyrodiil aggro on Stage 4 vamps and it's easy enough to make sure they don't, just as MANY things are modified in Cyrodiil. That really IS a different world from the rest of the game.

But making vamps OUTSIDE of Cyrodil have compelling reasons to feed SHOULD happen. What logical sense does it make to exist in a state where eating actually hurts you and just NOT doing it is an option? This was just poorly implemented and needs to be adjusted.

Yeah... Something I want to see, but can understand it hasn't made it in yet.

I mean... imagine releasing the justice system and suddenly everyone with Vampirism or Lycanthropy was getting attacked by the guards on sight? No matter which stage or transformation they are in?

Because that is probably going to happen. I'll just put my imaginary money down now on that bug.

There will be so much slaughter.

kaithuzar wrote: »

If you want realism, then they would need to make the guards & other NPC's kill-able.
It's just NOT REALISTIC at all for some puny guard to kill a VAMPIRE or Werewolf one on one!
Maybe on some rare occasion, but especially not at night & not the majority of the time!

-kai

You could say the same thing about guards being able to take down the Hero of Tamriel who defeated Molag Bal himself though. Trust me, I HATE that those smart ass guards I soooo want to beeatch slap every time they give me lip are going to be unkillable gods. Alas, it's what we're stuck with.

phreatophile wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

First, I promise I don't lose any sleep over this stuff. LOL So no worries over my fragile emotional and mental state!
Secondly, I am at best a sporadic PvPer (I still have forward camps, be my friend! LOL) but that does not mean that I take no interest in the state of PvP in this game. No one of which I am aware, and certainly not me, has suggested that guards in Cyrodiil aggro on Stage 4 vamps and it's easy enough to make sure they don't, just as MANY things are modified in Cyrodiil. That really IS a different world from the rest of the game.

But making vamps OUTSIDE of Cyrodil have compelling reasons to feed SHOULD happen. What logical sense does it make to exist in a state where eating actually hurts you and just NOT doing it is an option? This was just poorly implemented and needs to be adjusted.

Someone you sort of know has. I am 100% behind faction guards attacking stage 4 vampires in Cyrodil. It should be after you've been out of combat a minute or so to keep them from turning on you mid fight. I'm tired of PvP QQing being the pretext for the ongoing ruination of out characters. They'll never do it, they won't even make justice system guards frown at us. It would decimate the numbers of min/max FOTM vampires in Cyrodil, and that, in my book, is a good thing.

A vampire should be far more powerful than they are now, but only in certain circumstances. In other circumstances a vampire should be an easy kill.

You know I completely agree with you but we also know that when it comes to ZOS listening to PvEers (or, gods forbid, roleplayers) OR PvPers, PvPers win every time. And yes, I say this even knowing the lamentable conditions that still prevail in Cyrodiil and for which PvPers have every reason to be annoyed. It is what it is so I'm trying to work with it.

They need the console beta testers to check everything first before they add any more "stuff".