WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Though it would be super lovely if Zenimax would give some of us vampire loyalists and lore-buffs a chance to talk with them for a hour to bring them some amazing feedback over skype or similar, so you really can get that feeling of the person you're talking too. (Then they will probably realize we're super passionate about vampires!) I certainly, with a couple of others from this forum would be totally up for that. Gathering all of the feedback together, and then discuss it with the devs responsible for the vampire skill-line. Thats naturally a long stretch, but I'll make the wish the next time I see a shooting star.

Sign me up for those talks. I'm sure the handful of us that are die-hard vampires can figure out a way to both have access to all the content we've gone so long without and still not be game breakingly or OP.

^^Ditto!

My ideas to fix vampires (and to an extent, werewolves)

1. more active skills to vampires.
As is, vampire does not feel very vampire like because we have little to no vampire abilities, and what abilities there are, suck

2. I like the idea of making vampire ultimate a transformation to vampire lord, but i don't think we should be barred from using vampire abilities while not transformed, just make them weaker and maybe make some of them work differently depending on whether or not you are transformed (possibly add some non transformed werewolf actives, or give some actives a weakened version for non transformed state).

3. Cyclic weaknesses and giving benefit/weaknes duality to passives is a good idea (also, in game clock/calender would be awesome).

4. NPC reactions to transformed vampires/werewolves, and different stages vampires is also needed.

And make being a Vamp/WW HURT, make it matter, give those who choose to play as vampires or werewolves some actual power boost, while also making it a struggle to play as one, both in and out of combat.

I tried being a werewolf for a while, but being a caster it was pretty much pointless, as transforming just made me weaker and more fragile, to the point where i could not kill mobs meant to be taken on solo, at my level, not saying you should not need to speck into stamina to make the most out of werewolf, but it should not also be completely pointless as magicka build, especially as i could see stamina build getting lot out of a vampire.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Though it would be super lovely if Zenimax would give some of us vampire loyalists and lore-buffs a chance to talk with them for a hour to bring them some amazing feedback over skype or similar, so you really can get that feeling of the person you're talking too. (Then they will probably realize we're super passionate about vampires!) I certainly, with a couple of others from this forum would be totally up for that. Gathering all of the feedback together, and then discuss it with the devs responsible for the vampire skill-line. Thats naturally a long stretch, but I'll make the wish the next time I see a shooting star.

Sign me up for those talks. I'm sure the handful of us that are die-hard vampires can figure out a way to both have access to all the content we've gone so long without and still not be game breakingly or OP.

Count me in.

As a vampire, I will offer my experiences (as apparently ZoS is listening to non-vampires theorize):

1) I have completed all the PVE content in the game (except Sanctum). Not once did I feel overly threatened by fire. Yes this includes City of Ash. Multiple times.

2) The only concession I make to the fire weakness is a single purple fire resist glyph.

3) Without that fire resist ring, a single stray fire ballista bolt will kill a vamp. Indeed, even a scamp become a mortal threat.

4) With that ring, I literally forget I am a vampire when it comes to fire. I am not kidding.

5) In short, the danger fire poses is very real, but easily mitigated. I have had conversation with people who claim to have had serious trouble with PvE content and actually switch between vampire and mortal like once a week. These people are allowing one bad experience - probably when they were more concerned about stacking spell damage than mitigating fire - to completely warp their perspective. I am not the best player, I do not have the best build and I completed all the PvE content just fine.

6) If a vampire was such a disadvantage, most of the prominent players in PvP would not be one. Most are. That is I think all that needs to be said when evaluating the pros and cons of being a vampire for Cyrodiil.

7) Vampire are *already* strong and already able to complete all the content in the game just fine. By removing their fundamental weakness, something that is easily mitigated to begin with, ZoS *will*, not "runs the risk of" unbalance the game. Again look at Cyrodiil - Vampires are already superior to mortals despite the built in mechanics in the game that is supposed to balance them.

8) The only people that probably have a real reason to switch out vampire are those hardcore raiders who are searching for every edge so they can complete a PvE raid in world record time. Because a vamp must slot a fire resist glyph, that's one less spell damage or magicka cost reduction ring and an unacceptable loss of DPS from a hardcore raiding perspective. Granted, BUT:

A) I have seem numerous posts from this group of players who indicated that they roll / play what is functionally optimal as opposed to what is preferable. Thus many of these players are indifferent to vampire to begin with.

B - how large is this community? Is it worth further damaging the vampire - mortal balance in PvP so a small group of sanctum raiders can get an extra 13 spell damage for their SO runs?

C) I'd still contend that even with that fire resist glyph, their characters are nominally stronger. In essence they are trading a single spell damage run for: magicka regeneration, stamina regeneration, and damage mitigation - all stuff useful in their SO raid. This is on top of the stealth sneak speed and an ultimate whose potency has gotten more complaints than DKs that may not be useful in a SO raid, but is very strong in Cyrodiil.

Tl;DR: would you trade one of your jewelry glyphs for +10% magicka recovery, +10% stamina recovery, automatic damage reduction that kicks in at low health, fast sneaking, periodically free cash (vamp bites), and an ultimate that makes you all but invulnerable while it is active? I'll take 3 please...

And ZoS thinks this is a disadvantage for some content?

Lets be real though, a lot of both PvP'ers and PvE'ers alike removed their vampirism after the many nerfs it had. I'm not saying vampirism is bad, because I do not feel so the slightest. It feels "balanced" in comparison to non-affiliated mortals. As it has both strengths, but weaknesses to compensate. Personally I've seen many more werewolves around than vampires lately, due to tha passive increase in stamina regen, without having to take the poison weakness as long as they do not use the ww transformation.

I believe that is a dangerous way to make it, we want to be in Tamriel, and ww's and vamp's are supposed to be sparse creatures out there, not your everyday neighbor. There is a reason they are hunted and killed most places in Tamriel too, they are widely hatred because of how dangerous, yet powerful they are. In ESO, vampires and ww isn't really any different from unaffiliated mortals. because of balancing issues. That is ok' and all, but playing a werewolf, or vampire should still be a different playstyle than the usual unaffiliated mortal would have. If they make the changes to the fire weakness, we will find tons and tons of people going vampire, as it gives you many buffs, but only a weakness to health regen. That is a very small weakness, and doesn't even come close to comparing to the bonuses.

The same sadly goes for ww, as they can get the extra stamina regen, yet none of the weaknesses as long as they do not transform. That is a huuuge plus, and also the reason why many stamina builds feels forced to go werewolf, because don't just means you're losing out.

My point being, Werewolves and Vampires should have both weaknesses, and strengths which matches well to make it balanced. But removing the weaknesses will force everyone to take it, because not doing so would be literally dumb. That is not how it should be. It should be equally viable to play a unaffiliated mortal gameplay wise. Sure, you do not get the strengths, but neither do you have to deal with the weakness.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Personally I've seen many more werewolves around than vampires lately, due to tha passive increase in stamina regen, without having to take the poison weakness as long as they do not use the ww transformation.

That probably is a significant reason why you see more werewolves than vampires, but for myself, that's not the reason I have more werewolf characters (I've got 7 werewolves, 3 vampires, and 6 regular human/mer characters - one of whom I plan on turning into a vampire, and the other 5 will remain as they are).

For me it's mostly about what fits that particular character - and I'm not talking entirely about what the character's build is. It's partly build, and partly what I feel fits that character's story. I don't do any RP in-game, but my table top RPG background forces me to have a story fixed in my head for what each character I've created is like. Based on that story I've got in my head, some of them would welcome the "gift" of lycanthropy, but be disgusted by vampirism, while some would seek the power of vampirism, but have disdain for the bestial nature of lycanthropy, and still others would want to maintain their purity and ensure that they never become either.

It's also partly been that, for whatever reason, I've had a lot more difficulty getting infected with vampirism than lycanthropy. One of my vampires actually managed to find and get infected by bloodfiends after spending so much freaking time trying to find them on the appropriate nights. The other 2 were infected by friendly guild-mates. In contrast, 3 of my characters found and were infected by werewolves - all without even looking for them. Heck, the first one I didn't even realize that the werewolves I was fighting were the special ones that give lycanthropy, so I killed them (and then felt bad about it when I realized what I had done).

ShadowHvo wrote: »

My point being, Werewolves and Vampires should have both weaknesses, and strengths which matches well to make it balanced. But removing the weaknesses will force everyone to take it, because not doing so would be literally dumb. That is not how it should be. It should be equally viable to play a unaffiliated mortal gameplay wise. Sure, you do not get the strengths, but neither do you have to deal with the weakness.

Agreed.

I hope they hold a Vampire/Werewolf summit! That would be so cool.

Haha true! That is a good sign indeed, hopefully they will also take note of the stuff written here and not just delete the unnecessary posts!