Is ZENIMAX aware about the DPS imbalance in 1.6? Is it intended?

Reykice · March 2015

This thread(here) shows a thing 1.6 testers have noticed for a while, its easy to get 15k dps by spamming Wrecking Blow...

Now that is fine and well, however there is no ranged magicka equivalent... Sorcerers currently do the most ranged magical dps but its not as much as melee. The other classes can`t even get close...

To be a magicka based build also means you must use Light Armor. 1.6 makes it so Light Armor gives 1/4 of the armor given by Heavy Armor. Medium Armor gets 3/4. Since 1 armor will also mean 1 spell resist... it makes Medium Armor 3 times better at both armor and spell resist by default. Even with the Light Armor magic resist passive skill, Medium Armor is still a lot better.

Most games i know are balanced so if you want damage you must give up some protection, with the best damage dealers having no protection at all. In ESO, if you want ranged magical damage you will give up all your protection but still do 30% to 50% less damage(dps) compared to a melee build that only spams one skill.

Its fair medium armor gets more armor... not sure about the spell resist, why should a mage be weaker versus spells compared to a rogue?(melee dual wield)

As for the damage, it should be equal or within 5% - 10%... the current difference is too big. I had hopes that, as you said, you were monitoring this and will adjust but it looks like you pretty much decided to roll the update no matter what.(many game breaking bugs still exist, one even allows sorcerers to do 20k dps, but i won`t list them here especially now that i don`t think they will get fixed)

Are you aware of this problem?

Does you data reflect this?

Are you planning to just leave it like this or will you change it before 1.6 launches on live? Was this intended?

In a game with Leader boards what was the reason for the implementation of this huge disparity in damage per second?

A lot of people are planning to make a new character in 1.6 to enjoy the new game experience so i`m sure they would also like to know more about this.

Hypertionb14_ESO · March 2015

i know its easy to get 15k DPS spamming wrecking blow on PTS... but i did that with a horribly unbalanced build that would likley never survive in trials that also had 3.6k champain points which even with the "super grinders" you find on MMOs will not be a common thing for at least a few months to a year.

if you only have 15k-20k hp in order to do that high damage, then you are also very likley to be one shot constantly in PvP.

so yes, its possible to build for insane numbers in damage dealing terms... but melee in particular carries risks that have always been a major turn off for players.

also, i have managed 24k DPS in a 15sec fight on both Mage templar and mage Sorcerer. with the sorcerer doing 24k on individual hits of overload using a glass cannon build, and the templar doing 10-20k hits of Radiant Oppression (which hits twice each second)

its hardly something only melee can achieve. its just not all too much practical.

Reykice · March 2015

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

i know its easy to get 15k DPS spamming wrecking blow on PTS... but i did that with a horribly unbalanced build that would likley never survive in trials that also had 3.6k champain points which even with the "super grinders" you find on MMOs will not be a common thing for at least a few months to a year.

if you only have 15k-20k hp in order to do that high damage, then you are also very likley to be one shot constantly in PvP.

so yes, its possible to build for insane numbers in damage dealing terms... but melee in particular carries risks that have always been a major turn off for players.

also, i have managed 24k DPS in a 15sec fight on both Mage templar and mage Sorcerer. with the sorcerer doing 24k on individual hits of overload using a glass cannon build, and the templar doing 10-20k hits of Radiant Oppression (which hits twice each second)

its hardly something only melee can achieve. its just not all too much practical.

You can read in that thread, he used 75 CP and a balanced build....

Dazin93 · March 2015

Reykice wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

i know its easy to get 15k DPS spamming wrecking blow on PTS... but i did that with a horribly unbalanced build that would likley never survive in trials that also had 3.6k champain points which even with the "super grinders" you find on MMOs will not be a common thing for at least a few months to a year.

if you only have 15k-20k hp in order to do that high damage, then you are also very likley to be one shot constantly in PvP.

so yes, its possible to build for insane numbers in damage dealing terms... but melee in particular carries risks that have always been a major turn off for players.

also, i have managed 24k DPS in a 15sec fight on both Mage templar and mage Sorcerer. with the sorcerer doing 24k on individual hits of overload using a glass cannon build, and the templar doing 10-20k hits of Radiant Oppression (which hits twice each second)

its hardly something only melee can achieve. its just not all too much practical.

You can read in that thread, he used 75 CP and a balanced build....

I believe the intent of the OP's test was to demonstrate some sort of dps parity across the classes, but in my opinion all it did was highlight how powerful the 2h skill line is despite the class.

You are absolutely right in that there isn't a balance of risk vs. reward and frankly there hasn't been since release. Some people are touting 1.6 for all the changes it brings, but in terms of class balance and viable build variety it isn't any better. It is different and quite possibly worse.

I have personally found 1.6 to be an utter disappointment and as a PvP player I cannot find anything positive that comes from it from a macro perspective.

xaraan · March 2015

I'm not sure what's going on with them on some issues. They are aware that bow sucks - even having said that since an archer is at range they are in less danger so it's an even trade-off (they obviously haven't played an archer in most high end content or against anyone in pvp). They've been told countless times how overpowered uppercut is by multiple sources, yet it persists as an issue. <shrugs> Sometimes I just don't know. Hoping there is a plan in there somewhere or just stuff being worked on we don't know yet. But probably wishful thinking.

Tamanous · March 2015

xaraan wrote: »

I'm not sure what's going on with them on some issues. They are aware that bow sucks - even having said that since an archer is at range they are in less danger so it's an even trade-off (they obviously haven't played an archer in most high end content or against anyone in pvp). They've been told countless times how overpowered uppercut is by multiple sources, yet it persists as an issue. <shrugs> Sometimes I just don't know. Hoping there is a plan in there somewhere or just stuff being worked on we don't know yet. But probably wishful thinking.

Actually what truly baffles me is that Bow is far more powerful at short range than long range. This sniper thing they got going on with that passive is distractingly opposite of real life physics. Historical usage of the bow is entirely about using the weapon most effectively at short range due to how much deadlier it is ... especially against armor. This whole movie business about showing blobs of arrows blotting out the sun is cool looking and all but rarely ever used as such in actual combat. The kinetic energy left after such a long, arcing flight of an arrow would bounce off of most armor without harm.

Not only does bow not use anything close to real physics in ESO compared to Skyrim but they add that stupid passive on top.

Kronosphere · March 2015

close range attacks SHOULD so a good deal more than ranged attacks so im happy with this. close range attacks can be very hard to land constant dps and may have to stop to dodge etc (for bosses) whereas ranged dps doesnt matter u just keep spamming that button. so im glad they changed that. they should however give magicka (there migh already i havent checked) equally strong close range spells.

HOWEVER i think medium armor does offer too much protection for a "dps armor". i do however understand the reasoning. staminia builds are generally close range, to be close range u are alot more likely to be taking damage. perhaps they could tone down the dmg part of medium armor to compensate or something??

SickDuck · March 2015

You can block(cast) in light armor and manage your stamina better in general to avoid cc effects or deadly game mechanics. Blocking rarely exist in medium armor as it significantly decreases dps. Given light armor has better damage mitigation while blocking than medium without I think it's well balanced.

As for the linked test thread: it's a great comparison of classes for one build but hardly reflects the overall state of the game regarding to magicka vs stamina. The build used there is a bit skewed. Redguard (stami regen, 10% max stamina, stami regen while using melee) is the best melee race by far, better than dark elf for magicka. It had 17k hp which might be a bit low for end game PvE or at least challenging. The fight is static which means melee probably should outshine ranged as it loses more dps on many other non-static fights. Bare in mind the OP is a pro with pro help around to boost damage. He posted a 13k+ dps for the same fight with petless sorcerer, which given the above seem pretty balanced to me.

Reykice · March 2015

Its a competitive game with the trials leader board... sure give melee a 5% or 10% dps boost but not 30%...

Its like a headless chicken is balancing this... it was full on magicka now its on stamina. This is what makes people pissed, when a patch invalidates their build and play style.

Spamming a skill over and over getting the best dps is just bad design...

Cogo · March 2015

Why is the question about damage in DPS? (damage per second)?

DPS is one factor when doing damage. But both pvp and encounters is not about DPS?
Burst, survival, interupt, Area, block, resist, big damage, lots of small damage, stuns, synergy etc.

If you keep attacking the wrong mob when other mobs or players are healing your target then it doesn't matter how much DPS you do.

Also, the different weapons arnt a graphic thing. They are different in what you use them for.

Maybe I am missing something but why is the question only about damage per second?

eserras7b16_ESO · March 2015

I haven't tested anything but Melee is way more dangerous aproach than Ranged for PvE so melees need to have slightly higher DPS

$infraction2008b16_ESO$ · March 2015

This thread is funny because the opposite has been true for the past year and magicka ranged builds have not only been more dominant but pretty much required for endgame. Now there's a reason to go with stamina builds you all cry about it? Moaning about wrecking blow spam when the status quo consists of spamming crushing shock on a DoT'd up target?

SickDuck · March 2015

Hard to see the whole picture at the moment. Probably need to wait a month after go live to draw conclusions. Meanwhile I guess we'll see weekly tweaks appearing via patches, especially before TU kickoff.

About 1click spam wonders - while the game offers 5 slots, 2-3 of those filled up with slot-to-buff and active buff abilities. Add 1 main dps and 1 execute skill and you're bar is set. Given weapon swapping is unreliable still,that's pretty much what the current design can offer. Which is bad.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

This is to be 1.3 v2.

They'll push it through and then try to adjust after the fact, compounding the issues in different ways instead of correcting them.

1.6 is going to hit anyone that has not been on PTS or at least on forums like a freight train. It will be all but impossible to adjust and satisfy both sets of people after - it will be too easy for one, too hard for the other, with nothing in between.