Transformed Werewolves & Stage 4 Vampires Continue to be Ignored by Guards in Justice System

MornaBaine · March 2015

So we now know that Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves will continue to be ignored by the guards with the upcoming Justice System. This, despite Paul Sage's statement that guards "will notice" Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves and "will not like that behavior." This lead most of us to believe that Stage 4 vamps and transformed werewolves might be KOS to city guards, making them more challenging and fun (and realistic!) to play. This has been tested by players on PTS though and it's been reported that this change has NOT been made. I find this extremely disappointing. Not to mention immersion breaking. I'd love to know the reasoning behind this and if it's still on the table at all for future implementation.

MADshadowman · March 2015

Yeah, i think they later said that it will probably not be in 1.6, since the justice system isn't completed yet. 1.7 might be the update with the rest of the justice system and this should also contain the city guard reactions for vamps and ww. I mean technically this should already be possible in 1.6, but i think there is more stuff that needs to be implemented.

phreatophile · March 2015

I feel that every time they start to get out of the miles wide but only inches deep territory they pull back before they get there.

This was just one more chance to add a little depth to 3 different systems: justice, vampirism, and werewolves. For whatever reason, it had to be dragged back to the kiddie pool.

Bad call, IMHO.

Zershar_Vemod · March 2015

Expect to see it later on OP.

Not everything is being released initially - and that is a good thing, because I can tell you, a lot of things will be bugged / broken.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · March 2015

Bah I love my vamp and having the world actually reacting to what she is would have been nice.

YourNameHere · March 2015

That is a shame. It would bring a bit more fun to both vamps and weres. I do hope it gets looked at.

Audigy · March 2015

I believe that the whine at the forums once again changed the Devs mind. Vampires and WW´s obviously didn't like being unable to go into towns, banks etc. so they removed the NPC reaction towards those evil demons.

Personally, if a Vampire or WW is noticeable like a WW walking under full moon, a Vampire being thirsty for blood then walking into a city should not be tolerated.

Sadly Immersion and realism isn't what players want these days, so I doubt we will ever see a change there

Sorry Morna, its seldom that we agree but here I give you a thumbs up!

Vegaroth · March 2015

I hope they never implement that, with the timers on stages will make really hard to play vamps, and not everybody is interested in participate on the JS.

firstdecan · March 2015

Vegaroth wrote: »

I hope they never implement that, with the timers on stages will make really hard to play vamps, and not everybody is interested in participate on the JS.

I think it would be awesome, it would reduce the number of people playing vamps just for the passives and the bat ultimate. The number of people playing vamps in this game makes it feel like Twilight online, I thought this was supposed to be an elder scrolls game.

starkerealm · March 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

So we now know that Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves will continue to be ignored by the guards with the upcoming Justice System.

To be fair, the guards don't actually ignore werewolves and stage 4 vampires, they just don't consider being a devote of Hircine to be a crime in and of itself.

They still notice you when you're murdering townsfolk.

Honestly, as a werewolf, I've accidentally wolfed out in town enough times, especially after missing a key press, that if it was a KoS crime, I would be completely screwed.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

Not only this but has anyone tried breaking into a house and murdering it's occupants? If you're successful in eliminating everyone in the house, you still gain a bounty and a wanted level even though the witnesses are dead.

starkerealm · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Not only this but has anyone tried breaking into a house and murdering it's occupants? If you're successful in eliminating everyone in the house, you still gain a bounty and a wanted level even though the witnesses are dead.

Not if you're undetected through the murderings. If you can take them down with one hit from stealth, no bounty.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

Audigy wrote: »

I believe that the whine at the forums once again changed the Devs mind. Vampires and WW´s obviously didn't like being unable to go into towns, banks etc. so they removed the NPC reaction towards those evil demons.

Personally, if a Vampire or WW is noticeable like a WW walking under full moon, a Vampire being thirsty for blood then walking into a city should not be tolerated.

Sadly Immersion and realism isn't what players want these days, so I doubt we will ever see a change there

Sorry Morna, its seldom that we agree but here I give you a thumbs up!

How come I never see the people whining for Vamps/WW not to be an Attack On Sight thing? Just like we never saw anybody BEGGING for F2P. Is there some other forum they pay more attention to rather than the OFFICIAL? If that's the case, that's beyond asinine.

So either I'm missing a frightening amount of forum trends or ZOS is cherry-picking forum responses to justify their choices.

Ommamar · March 2015

Audigy wrote: »

I believe that the whine at the forums once again changed the Devs mind. Vampires and WW´s obviously didn't like being unable to go into towns, banks etc. so they removed the NPC reaction towards those evil demons.

Personally, if a Vampire or WW is noticeable like a WW walking under full moon, a Vampire being thirsty for blood then walking into a city should not be tolerated.

Sadly Immersion and realism isn't what players want these days, so I doubt we will ever see a change there

Sorry Morna, its seldom that we agree but here I give you a thumbs up!

That played a part I am sure but it wouldn't be all that hard to get around. There is already a hireling system with crafting so just make one available to do needed tasks once the skill line is obtained.

ShadowHvo · March 2015

It is important to note however that vampires who feed and werewolves who attack citizens or feed on livestock do get instant full heat and makes the player Kill-on-Sight, unlike mortals.

It is a slight very tiny consequense for Vamps and WW's with the justice system, but it appears to be the only one too.

phtony06b14_ESO · March 2015

My vamp has been stage 4 since I 1st got it. I can't imagine having to manage my stage level every time I went to town. With that much hassle, you'll see a lot of people simply get cured & go without. I'm really not sure that's the end goal of the devs.

phreatophile · March 2015

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

My vamp has been stage 4 since I 1st got it. I can't imagine having to manage my stage level every time I went to town. With that much hassle, you'll see a lot of people simply get cured & go without. I'm really not sure that's the end goal of the devs.

It sure is an end goal for me. I'd like my play style left alone for once. When 1.6 drops it will be the 6th time (I think) we've been nerfed. I'd like it to be the last for a while, only way that will ever happen is for being a vampire to be inconvenient enough that the PVP min-maxers drop it. Maybe, just maybe, we'll go a day or so between new batswarm wine threads.

starkerealm · March 2015

phreatophile wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

My vamp has been stage 4 since I 1st got it. I can't imagine having to manage my stage level every time I went to town. With that much hassle, you'll see a lot of people simply get cured & go without. I'm really not sure that's the end goal of the devs.

It sure is an end goal for me. I'd like my play style left alone for once. When 1.6 drops it will be the 6th time (I think) we've been nerfed. I'd like it to be the last for a while, only way that will ever happen is for being a vampire to be inconvenient enough that the PVP min-maxers drop it. Maybe, just maybe, we'll go a day or so between new batswarm wine threads.

Wait, are vampires being nerfed with 1.6? All I remember seeing was the fire vulnerability dropping to 40%, and... oh, right, the damage resist passive took it on the chin, didn't it?

DaniAngione · March 2015

I hoped it would be in by 1.6 also... But I guess it will come later. I don't think they're throwing the idea in the trash can, just postponing it to the rest of the Justice System.

phreatophile · March 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

My vamp has been stage 4 since I 1st got it. I can't imagine having to manage my stage level every time I went to town. With that much hassle, you'll see a lot of people simply get cured & go without. I'm really not sure that's the end goal of the devs.

It sure is an end goal for me. I'd like my play style left alone for once. When 1.6 drops it will be the 6th time (I think) we've been nerfed. I'd like it to be the last for a while, only way that will ever happen is for being a vampire to be inconvenient enough that the PVP min-maxers drop it. Maybe, just maybe, we'll go a day or so between new batswarm wine threads.

Wait, are vampires being nerfed with 1.6? All I remember seeing was the fire vulnerability dropping to 40%, and... oh, right, the damage resist passive took it on the chin, didn't it?

Flame resist glyphs have taken a huge hit in strength.
Damage resistance passive will take a big hit.
Dunmer fire resist passive will take a big hit.
Ultimate generation has taken a huge hit.

On balance only the latter is a good thing. One that should have been done long ago and would likely have made all of the other nerfs unnecessary. Put another way, we're all getting the nerf we all should have had, meanwhile players of vampires have gotten a lot of nerfs we shouldn't have, and we have to play with the whole cursed mess.

MornaBaine · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Not only this but has anyone tried breaking into a house and murdering it's occupants? If you're successful in eliminating everyone in the house, you still gain a bounty and a wanted level even though the witnesses are dead.

Which is completely ridiculous.

Asgari · March 2015

From playing PvP primarily the stage 4 vamps being attacked by town guards simply won't work. We don't have guild traders in Cyrodiil and are forced out into PvE land. Being stage 4 is required for some play styles and you can't do that if you are killed by guards every time you need to go to a town. Being forced to wait hours for the feed to degrade is not acceptable either.

I love that the guards do not attack.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · March 2015

This is totally lame, they had better change this in the next patch or ima be pissed off. WW and Vamps should be SHUNNED by ALL society its completely lore breaking otherwise.

Dreamo84 · March 2015

I think people need to understand pulling off some of these single player style features in an MMO is tricky at times.

I honestly think the game should have utilized a lot more phasing and instancing to where it felt more like a single player Elder Scrolls game except you ran into a few players here and there. Instead of 10 people in a delve there might be two or three. Would have still been Elder Scrolls Online just not 100 people sneaking around a house stealing online.

Audigy · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I believe that the whine at the forums once again changed the Devs mind. Vampires and WW´s obviously didn't like being unable to go into towns, banks etc. so they removed the NPC reaction towards those evil demons.

Personally, if a Vampire or WW is noticeable like a WW walking under full moon, a Vampire being thirsty for blood then walking into a city should not be tolerated.

Sadly Immersion and realism isn't what players want these days, so I doubt we will ever see a change there

Sorry Morna, its seldom that we agree but here I give you a thumbs up!

How come I never see the people whining for Vamps/WW not to be an Attack On Sight thing? Just like we never saw anybody BEGGING for F2P. Is there some other forum they pay more attention to rather than the OFFICIAL? If that's the case, that's beyond asinine.

So either I'm missing a frightening amount of forum trends or ZOS is cherry-picking forum responses to justify their choices.

I remember some tough feedback a while ago in one of the Justice System threads. I don't remember any names and if ZO representatives said a word there, but the basic concern was being locked out from City life - similar concerns like with the JS before it got nerfed to a "nobody can kill anyone, but guards do".

Vegaroth wrote: »

I hope they never implement that, with the timers on stages will make really hard to play vamps, and not everybody is interested in participate on the JS.

I have to admit, I am not really a big fan of Vampires or WW´s in online gaming. Not because I don't like those demons, but because of the actual gameplay. There are no significant downsides, they just walk in the sunlight, they just feed on rats and pigs occasionally, they can walk sacred ground, don't change in appearance no matter what etc.

To me being a Vampire is about lore and immersion, but no MMO ever delivered this. Its either Twilight Online or Zombiefest

I fully understand your concerns, but to me its the deal breaker of never picking a Vampire or WW in games

I would love to play a Vampire Queen, a hunted evil that is frightening and can only walk at night. Sacred ground would make her feed burn, she has constant lust for blood and is squishy as hell. All of this the "new age" vampire saga doesn't have. Those former demons have a picnic in the sunlight, they are super resistant to anything, be it fire, wood or silver bullets. They are dead and yet breathe life - its just not working for me.

The game we don't speak of has some type of WW too, but its just as unrealistic as it is here.

Maybe its too much to ask for, I don't know.

MornaBaine · March 2015

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

From playing PvP primarily the stage 4 vamps being attacked by town guards simply won't work. We don't have guild traders in Cyrodiil and are forced out into PvE land. Being stage 4 is required for some play styles and you can't do that if you are killed by guards every time you need to go to a town. Being forced to wait hours for the feed to degrade is not acceptable either.

I love that the guards do not attack.

And you are the reason we can't have nice things. LOL J/K Seriously though I thought about this objection right off the bat because if you feed just once to get into Stage 3, yeah, you're stuck there for an hour and a half before you flip back to Stage 4. And I get why that is unacceptable to the PvP crowd even while the snarky part of me would like to remind you that being a vampire should have never been a go to easy mode for PvP to begin with. But the fact is, this is easily fixed. Stage 1 only lasts HALF an hour. So just IMAGINE if they switch the timers between Stage 1 and Stage 3, an incredibly easy thing to implement. You feed ONCE and you are now in Stage 3, safe from the PvE guards, for only half an hour. Plenty of time to do your banking, etc. You MIGHT have 10 minutes to wait to flip back into Stage 4 if you are super speedy about this stuff. But that is hardly a burden and the fact is, for one reason or another, vampires should HAVE to feed.

Sandmanninja · March 2015

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

This is totally lame, they had better change this in the next patch or ima be pissed off. WW and Vamps should be SHUNNED by ALL society its completely lore breaking otherwise.

Then why allow players to play them? I'm sorry, but this is an MMO and people have bought the game and have decided to play that role. I have 2 Vamps and enjoy it. I do not role play a Vamp but it's integrated into my build.

Your argument would justify targeting other groups as well. Why not shun Dunmer on sight??!? They permitted slavery in Morrowind?

Just accept that if a player can play a certain race or use a certain character aspect, then you cannot bias the game against that character.

MADshadowman · March 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Not only this but has anyone tried breaking into a house and murdering it's occupants? If you're successful in eliminating everyone in the house, you still gain a bounty and a wanted level even though the witnesses are dead.

Which is completely ridiculous.

Oh yeah? Ever played Oblivion? You steal an apple in a dark, empty room, but somehow everyone in Cyrodiil suddenly knows it

MornaBaine · March 2015

Any chance we might get a Dev response letting us know if this is still even under consideration to be added later?

Thevampirenight · March 2015

They should never add the guards to see vampires in stage four main reason for rp reasons and it will hurt rpers, as well as for werewolf they could do it but I would not do it if I were them. Because people could rp werewolves attacking citys and guards would ruin that. So if you see this, don't add this to the game the stage four attack. Most do not want this.

Thevampirenight · March 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

So we now know that Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves will continue to be ignored by the guards with the upcoming Justice System. This, despite Paul Sage's statement that guards "will notice" Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves and "will not like that behavior." This lead most of us to believe that Stage 4 vamps and transformed werewolves might be KOS to city guards, making them more challenging and fun (and realistic!) to play. This has been tested by players on PTS though and it's been reported that this change has NOT been made. I find this extremely disappointing. Not to mention immersion breaking. I'd love to know the reasoning behind this and if it's still on the table at all for future implementation.

Well if they did add this they better have a toggle to have it optional and I don't care how many would complain about it if they did, because they can't hurt the rp comunity like that for one if your rping, sometimes it takes hours, to finish and you are stage four, to quicky, if they did add the attack on site this would be breaking and it will hurt because some of us have vampires that are differant rp clan types that can't be noticed at all at stage four. Or any stage, and it would interupt rp like not other.