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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Race change a conveince item?
Ommamar
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So after listening to timeout from Tamriel I got into a discussion with others who play the game. For those who missed it the question of race change in the crown store was brought up. One of the people main initial character was a Nord which with the passives is kind of set up to fill a specific role generally a tank or perhaps a healer. You can DPS with them but they will never be as good damage wise as some of the other classes that have passives that add offensive damage. I think it is cool that they have made the races unique but the drawback is to be in the top echelon of end game you need to take certain combinations with certain races to make the required numbers. Now this is really a min max issue which only effects a certain percentage of players. Still it makes sense for someone who has invested hundreds of hours into building a character to be able to change the race to meet their play style/build concept. What does this forum community think?
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dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. It's been discussed a thousand times.
All that would foster is everyone changing races every time Zenimax makes a change so they can keep the FotM.13 -
footloosejarlb14_ESOSoul ShrivenAbsolutely! Options are the spice of life! You aren't really giving someone an advantage by allowing them to change their race, you are simply saving them the ungodly hassle of rerolling the same character and going through everything all over. I picked an Orc at the beginning because I thought they looked cool. Now that I've got 7 weeks of game time logged, I'm in too deep to reroll just to change this one thing. I don't foresee many people at all abusing this - just your min/maxers who also follow the flavor of the month. And honestly, if they want to spend cold hard cash to do 3% extra DPS, good for them. It doesn't bother me a bit.
On the other hand, for people like me who have full time jobs, grad school and a family - it'd be a Godsend. I simply don't have time to reroll and go through all of that content all over again. My time is precious to me, and it would be an enormous CONVENIENCE for me to be able to change my race to match my playstyle. That playstyle, mind you, was developed over 7 weeks of logged time. I didn't know what style of play I'd prefer at the end of it all, but now I do. In that light, I would be one of those individuals who would change my race once and be satisfied.2 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If a race change is a one-time-only item that locks a character out of ever using them again, it would be convenience.
If a race change is open-ended and allows a player to change their race to a new race in order to min/max new builds every time there are skill tweaks and changes, then it would be pay-to-win."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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supernico✭✭✭No. It's been discussed a thousand times.
All that would foster is everyone changing races every time Zenimax makes a change so they can keep the FotM.
uhm.. and your point is?
Supernico - VR14 DragonKnight - Daggerfall Covenant - Former EmperorMy name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.2 -
Orihara_Izaya✭✭✭I don't see what's wrong with race changes. Swtor and other MMO's have already implemented this kind of feature. Generally speaking race changes are kind of expensive to discourage people from doing it too often, so if you people want to change their race every few patches that up to them and their wallet. However most people like me just got tired of the look and may want to change it up now and again. No reason to not do this.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
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His point is firstly that this is an old topic that has been done to death already, and secondly that he's against it because it would lead to players wanting to change their race every time ZOS made a change to racial skills.
He's right on both counts.4 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭
His point is firstly that this is an old topic that has been done to death already, and secondly that he's against it because it would lead to players wanting to change their race every time ZOS made a change to racial skills.
He's right on both counts.
I have not seen it from the view point of it being a convenience item offered in the crown store.
You make it sound as if racial skills are changed often, I personally have not seen any change or even heard anything from the ZOS development team about large changes to racial passives. Even if this was a common occurrence; as other have pointed out if a player chooses to spend their crowns on such an option so what it is their money.1 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »No.
So you don't think it is a convenience item? Or you don't think it should be offered in the crown store?0 -
DaniAngione✭✭✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »No.
So you don't think it is a convenience item? Or you don't think it should be offered in the crown store?
Both.
I don't think it's a convenience to be able to change your character race.
And don't think it should ever be offered in any way.
From the "lore" point of view, it's (obviously) completely game-breaking.
From the "gameplay" point of view, it's more than just a "convenience", after all you'll be changing your racial passives. Not to mention specific racial things, it would be a big hassle in terms of coding.
From the "humanity" point of view, people should stop being lazy and level another character. And shouldn't even start with the "what if I regret my choice?" thing. That could be applied to anything so it's barely an argument. I regret levelling two handed skill, should I be able to transfer my 50 rank points to another weapon skill? I regret picking this class, should I be able to change my class? I regret playing the game, will they give me money enough for going to the movies for the same amount of time I've spent in the game?
Nope, no race changing. Enough streamlining games for carebears, learn to deal with choices, not cry over 'em.
PS:
Oh, and just so you don't think I'm an extremeist... I'm completely open for faction change, for example. If done right (With a very difficult and cool quest chain - and only once). Thigs need to make sense in the game universe.
PS2:
And sorry if I sounded harsh, it was nothing personal. I'm just a bit tired of this discussion (as some people mentioned, it happened more than once... or twice... or thrice...) and decided to go straight into the point since I'll probably not even come back into the forums until monday
Edited by DaniAngione on February 28, 2015 11:13PM10 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »DaniAngione wrote: »No.
So you don't think it is a convenience item? Or you don't think it should be offered in the crown store?
Both.
I don't think it's a convenience to be able to change your character race.
And don't think it should ever be offered in any way.
From the "lore" point of view, it's (obviously) completely game-breaking.
From the "gameplay" point of view, it's more than just a "convenience", after all you'll be changing your racial passives. Not to mention specific racial things, it would be a big hassle in terms of coding.
From the "humanity" point of view, people should stop being lazy and level another character. And shouldn't even start with the "what if I regret my choice?" thing. That could be applied to anything so it's barely an argument. I regret levelling two handed skill, should I be able to transfer my 50 rank points to another weapon skill? I regret picking this class, should I be able to change my class? I regret playing the game, will they give me money enough for going to the movies for the same amount of time I've spent in the game?
Nope, no race changing. Enough streamlining games for carebears, learn to deal with choices, not cry over 'em.
PS:
Oh, and just so you don't think I'm an extremeist... I'm completely open for faction change, for example. If done right (With a very difficult and cool quest chain - and only once). Thigs need to make sense in the game universe.
PS2:
And sorry if I sounded harsh, it was nothing personal. I'm just a bit tired of this discussion (as some people mentioned, it happened more than once... or twice... or thrice...) and decided to go straight into the point since I'll probably not even come back into the forums until monday
Thank you for stating your position in a well designed response.1 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
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His point is firstly that this is an old topic that has been done to death already, and secondly that he's against it because it would lead to players wanting to change their race every time ZOS made a change to racial skills.
He's right on both counts.
Yes, he is correct. The topic is up constantly, because race restrictions and disadvantage, is hurting many loyal ESO players. The answer so far from ZoS is "certainly something that could be added in the future". But still, nagging a topic to death, is more effective than doing nothing.
Yes, it will lead to players changing their race, IF ZoS keeps re-directing imbalance between build, skills, races and playstyles 3 times a year, instead of creating some sort of harmony. They are clearly unable to make up their minds, understandable for a young game. Yet I'm suppose to make up my mind at level 1 as a customer, stand by my choices and plans forever, even when they're no longer viable lol. No way of going back unless I re-roll and spend 6 months building a new character from scratch.
People that supported this game since frickin' beta...getting a punch when ZoS keeps redesigned the game over and over, making old characters builds based on a race inefficient, than creating new fotm monsters. If ZoS cant make up their mind, if they cant have a balanced game, than at least minimize the impact of race or offer a tool like race change that allows customers to keep up with whims, experiments and instability.
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supernico✭✭✭
His point is firstly that this is an old topic that has been done to death already, and secondly that he's against it because it would lead to players wanting to change their race every time ZOS made a change to racial skills.
He's right on both counts.
don't you think that is the right thing to do when you do major changes to the game such as patch 1.6?
P.S. I recomend you to search information about GGG, the makers of Path of Exile. They give free full respec every time they do major changes to the skill tree. Because otherwise they break the current state of the game and on the other hand that's the right thing to do.
Edited by supernico on March 1, 2015 12:37AMSupernico - VR14 DragonKnight - Daggerfall Covenant - Former EmperorMy name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.1 -
supernico✭✭✭edit double postEdited by supernico on March 1, 2015 12:35AMSupernico - VR14 DragonKnight - Daggerfall Covenant - Former EmperorMy name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.0
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If it has some sort of restriction other than "whenever you want from the crown store", then I agree completely with race change as an option. The game is constantly evolving. Any given update can make any given race/class combination much more powerful than before. If the option is reroll or play an underpowered character, then to many those are two bad choices. Why limit your customers to two bad choices when you can provide a positive choice, race change.
Regardless of how it's introduced there should be a limiting factor that keeps players from doing it repeatedly. A 30 day lockout or even longer would seem appropriate and enough to keep people from swapping whenever they feel like it.0 -
Medakon✭✭✭
His point is firstly that this is an old topic that has been done to death already, and secondly that he's against it because it would lead to players wanting to change their race every time ZOS made a change to racial skills.
He's right on both counts.
if the topic is done to death, why are we still fighting for it to happen? because its not done, and race change will happen eventually, the real question is "When will it happen". Even world of warcraft got race change, and there is a great balance between the builds there
Medakon - Legendary Super Hero Professional Assassin Nightblade from Tamriel who do different stuff
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes to race change. Ridiculous to not have a race change in when soooo much has changed and the racial passives make a HUGE difference (compared to say going from a green VR1 chest piece to legendary VR14 chest piece).
Either balance racials (aka nerf the good ones) until we're looking at 1-2% differences in all builds (stamina dps, magicka dps, tank, heals) between races or you have to offer a race change.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
No.
I can see it now: "ESO is such a cash-grab! ZOS keeps altering the race passives around to FORCE us to change races and...and MAKE money! How dare they!1!!(one)1!"3 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭i am for race changes. every time a chars passives get nuked by zos without my consent kinda kills my reason for picking the race i base my chars on most acceptable appearance > then best race i can make look good for the role> then i make char..... i want to ditch trash races that zos deems no longer wanted in their world by nuking their passvies0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Last thing they need to worry about right now is race changes. How about giving some content before working on stuff hardly anyone would use like a race change? Dont like your race? Boo frikkin hoo reroll.5 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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So? Just make it expensive. People could have the optzion, but if it costs 20 $ worth of crowns to change your race... they'll be thinking twice and thrice about it. And if any do it regardless, well, more money in the developers war chest to bring the rest of us more content sooner...All that would foster is everyone changing races every time Zenimax makes a change so they can keep the FotM.
...unless you count the instances where something along those lines happens in the game. Greenshade, where a dunmer tried to rurn himself Khajiit with a alchjemical potion, but gets argonian instead. Sentinel, where an alchemist turns some people into animals with her potions. Or some temporary goblin transformations in stonefalls and stormhaven for the player through spells...DaniAngione wrote: »From the "lore" point of view, it's (obviously) completely game-breaking.
True. So it should not be cheap. Though there are no specific racial things except the passives, last time I looked... and those can be transferred from one to the other quite simply, I would think...DaniAngione wrote: »From the "gameplay" point of view, it's more than just a "convenience", after all you'll be changing your racial passives. Not to mention specific racial things, it would be a big hassle in terms of coding.
Personally, I wouldn't want to change any of my characters races - I made my choices with forethought, and see no reason to mess with them. Unless maybe they added a new race I might think a better fit for one of my character ideas... through so far, they haven't.DaniAngione wrote: »From the "humanity" point of view, people should stop being lazy and level another character. And shouldn't even start with the "what if I regret my choice?" thing. That could be applied to anything so it's barely an argument. I regret levelling two handed skill, should I be able to transfer my 50 rank points to another weapon skill? I regret picking this class, should I be able to change my class? I regret playing the game, will they give me money enough for going to the movies for the same amount of time I've spent in the game?
Still, I would like to have the option in the game, at a high crown cost. Just in case.
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Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭if the topic is done to death, why are we still fighting for it to happen? because its not done, and race change will happen eventually, the real question is "When will it happen".
Because the idea that "just because you want a new feature doesn't automatically mean that you will get it" is curiously hard to get some people to grasp. No matter how many times this particular horse gets battered it will always come up again as a forum topic. Why? Because even if one person stands alone, inevitably that one person will be thinking "I want it, therefore I should have it!"
Every time it comes up, people are sure that they have the ironclad reason why we should have race change in this game, and that reason has never been discussed before. Every. Single. Time.
You know what actually changes? Nothing. Except possibly that my patience with the topic and the people proposing it gets a little shorter each time.Even world of warcraft got race change, and there is a great balance between the builds there
You'd think that the launcher, game intro, URL for this site and title for this forum would clue people in, wouldn't you?
This isn't World of Warcraft. It never has been and it never will be. This is Elder Scrolls Online. Functional capacity that exists in one MMORPG is not automatically required in every other one. Really.
Race change is not a convenience item because there is nothing inconvenient about it. It is a fundamental defining characteristic of your character. And if the idea of a character is to have any meaning beyond "collection of numbers optimized to fit endgame PvE and/or PvP requirements" then perhaps race should be considered a part of that.
That said, if they nuked the racial passives so the differences were negligible (1-2% as another posted requested) then I wouldn't mind that either.... but even then I am sure someone would be creating a new thread like this. Perhaps just a little less often. 3 -
footloosejarlb14_ESOSoul ShrivenOh come on! It's not that hard to see why it's coming up again, if you really wanted to - because we will now be having a crown store where we can purchase convenience items. There are plenty of valid reasons to disagree, but it really shouldn't appall you that many players would find it mighty convenient. It keeps coming up over and over because a lot of people want it, and because ZOS hasn't said no. If folks didn't want it, it wouldn't come up. That's pretty obvious.
Again, I think people have plenty of valid reasons for not wanting it. I'm in the camp that thinks it doesn't give you an advantage not available to anyone else. Like some have said, just reroll if you want a different race. If it's so simple as that, then why is it a problem that it could be an offering in the crown store? Many of us are parents, fully employed, etc etc and simply do not have time to "just reroll." I was a college student not too many moons ago, and I remember thinking the same way as many here do. I would be the first to say, just reroll! Because, to me, I could get back to end game in a week, so what's the big deal, right? Well, now I work full time, have two toddlers and wife, and am a full time grad student. What was once, "just reroll," is now, "should we sign the divorce papers now or later?"
Despite what the Negative Namby Pamby's would have us believe, ZOS is not stupid. If they were to impliment something like this, I'm sure it would be done in a way that ensured the entire player base wasn't homogenously changing their race to match some sort of Flavor of the Month. As others have pointed out, all sorts of MMO's do this, and we don't see anything like that happening. It's not a new concept, there's valid reasons why people want it, and those people will continue to bring it up. If their regrets can fuel your content updates, we all win, yes?2 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The people in this thread saying no to this idea are using the following logic.- I like my race because of purely aesthetic or lore reasons.
- Yes other races might have better passives but I'm an awesome cat/lizard/nord/whatever
- If other people can change their race to be more competative, then I might be tempted as well.
- But I like my race the way it is for the aforementioned awesome lore reasons.
- I don't want to be presured to change so no one should be able to!!!!
Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on March 3, 2015 9:50PM4 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »The people in this thread saying no to this idea are using the following logic.- I like my race because of purely aesthetic or lore reasons.
- Yes other races might have better passives but I'm an awesome cat/lizard/nord/whatever
- If other people can change their race to be more competative, then I might be tempted as well.
- But I like my race the way it is for the aforementioned awesome lore reasons.
- I don't want to be presured to change so no one should be able to!!!!
I liked my race the way it WAS.... Argonians took a serious whack to the head this patch. They weren't all that special before, now they are flatly the worst for any role.0 -
TipsyDrow✭✭✭✭Race change, character appearance, gender change, hair options etc etc blah blah blah will ALL hit the crown store and anyone who has ever played a buy to play or free to play game knows this already. Character cutumization in cash shops bring in HUGE profits. Oh, and they will be expensive too!Oooh, what do we have here? Another scrumptious young plaything straight out of life and into my club? Mmm... you smell new, little boy, like fabric softener dew on freshly mowed Astroturf. Oh, I'm not frightening you, am I, duckling?
Love, Mistress Pigtails2 -
WhiskyBob✭✭✭✭✭This patch is amazing.
Orcs got a new ICON. Thats what we needed all along. Thank God they didnt remove the AMAZING 8% bonus to charge attacks passive, its so amazing compared to other races.0 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Race Change for 10,000 crowns
PC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything0
