Ideas on healing abilities, maybe playing more as you want.

Darkintellect · February 2015

I always saw Templars as a boring choice for a boring player unable to see past a mediocre class design. Color outside of the lines and if you build properly, you can surpass them in healing.

Currently I heal for 6k HPS on just myself using only Health Funnel and Rapid Regen. The below pic is under extreme circumstances, however normal rate is around 4350 HPS with no prep work.

This isn't counting siphoning ult that costs 150 ultimate, which heals each person in the group for 27k over 3.5 seconds and gives the group a 30% bonus to all healing for 4 seconds. This improves the health funnel and rapid regen already on the group which is always up.

Add to that Power Sap which does AE damage and heals group for a good chunk per cast (increasing 20% per enemy hit) as well as triggering Major Sorcery and Major attack for 20 seconds.

What I'm trying to say is, play any class you want, but if you build right and find the sweet spot of another class pulling off a design it isn't normally seen as doing, you can surpass the cookie cutters and every-man build. In this case, a templar healer.

Sheuib · February 2015

Let's take a serious look at an alternative to a templar.

I have a feeling DK has a good chance at being a better healer than a templar with obsidian shield morph igneous shield. A damage shield on everyone that increases healing by 30%. If you can't make an awesome healer with that you are just a bad player.

Or healing ward from the resto line? That is just as good if not better single target heal as breath of life. Sure you do not get the effect for 3 targets but lets be real the majority of the time at least one of those breath of life heals is hitting someone that doesn't need a big burst heal.

Could you imagine hitting igneous shield followed by healing ward followed by healing springs followed by a couple mutagen. I do not have a DK healer but I have a feeling that would outpace a templar healer. Sure templar's get a 30% buff to healing also but that only applies to templar heals and resto staff healing buffs do not apply to templar heals. A DK will get his 30% buff plus the resto staff healing increase. On top of hitting the whole group with a damage shield and double shield on the lowest health person. Heck I am thinking of actually going and making one now.

Is there any DK healers out there that can speak to this? Some comparison numbers would be great.

And, this was just off the top of my head. I am sure others have made great healers by just working with what they got.

DeathDealer19 · February 2015

This post is just dumb. I do agree that they should add a more instant oh crap heal to the rest skill line but the templar healing tree is why I made a templar. If youre jealous of it, make one. I dont get to vanish like a NB. I dont get crit surge or hardened ward like a sorc. I dont get insane dots and burst damage like a dk. Right now ever class can heal, tank, and dps. #1 time on vet dsa leader boards is a SORC healer..... More than half of the templar heal tree doesn't even get used. They simply need to retweak the resto staff line. Get rid of the stupid shield people cheat with in pvp and give the tree an instant cast heal like Breath of Life. But every class can and does heal. I've healed on my dk, sorc, and templar. Its all about player skill really. As for you saying every tank, dps, and healer use the same build.... Youre just plain wrong. In my Sanctum group, we cycle between dk, sorc, and NB tanks and they all use different builds, gear, skills. Same for healers. No two templar styles are the same in my guild. Many vary with gear, skill usage, healing styles, and opinions. If you want to heal as another class, stop crying on the forums and go do it. Sorcs make awesome healers. Dks do as well. Nightblades even do to. You just need to work with what the class has. Resto tree has two skills that can be morphed into nearly instant heals. No they dont rival breath of life, but us templars dont get crit surge or igneous shield to boost our heals.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Different builds? lol

So, please show me a healer that's not using Healing Springs / Illustrous Healing. Yeah, they are so different. 95% of all healing builds rely on the same heal skills because we are limited to what, 3, 4 possible skills? Diversity for healing is the lowest in game, even tanks have more options.

I am not jealous of Templars, I think they're the most boring class to play out there and I am healing with every class, but there are still differences.

And what the hell do you want with Vanish, Crit Surge or Hardened Ward? That's an awful comparison. It's about roles, not distinct skills. Is Crit Surge a special ability for tanks or healers? Or so is Vanish? That's not what it's about.

It's simply about Templars having more options - and please don't forget their passives, it's not only about active skills for healing. Sure other classes can be great healers, too, but Templars simply got a dozen more options for their healing builds. And they don't even need using a Resto Staff.

Jaxsun · February 2015

Sheuib wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

arqe wrote: »

As a templar , why cant i summon minions then ? Or drain hp , move speed , attack speed ?
What you asking is related with what we are all asking. Remove Class system completely. Not fix how class system works.
Just remove it completely. We dont need classes ( class skills more likely ) , that is why i ( we ) disagree with you.

Sheuib wrote: »

Yes, let's all just be the same. Wouldn't that be fun.

You both don't get the point.

ESOs approach on character progression was, that every class can handle every role - sure, every class can fulfill every role, but there are huge differences.

Zenimax destroyed their reasoning behind the ESO skill system when they gave Templars a whole tree for healing (and tanking as well) and DKs a whole tree for tanking and Nightblades and Sorcerers got nothing special in that case.

Not everybody should be the same but that's what is happening right now - most healers are the same because of Resto Staff, most tanks are the same because of Sword & Shield.

With more diversity in classes and their skill lines, every class should have special skills for the three main roles (healer, tank, DPS).

Templars right now have 6 + 5 active skills for healing through their class line and Resto Staff - next to that, they have 4 + 5 passives for healing.

In comparison, Nightblades have 2,5 + 5 active skills and 1 + 5 passive skills for healing.

DKs have 1 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.

Sorcerers have 0 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.

So, in the end we have:

Templar: 11 active skills / 9 passive skills
Nightblade: 7,5 active skills / 6 passive skills
Dragon Knight: 6 active skills / 5 passive skills
Sorcerers: 5 active skills / 5 passive skills

There is a huge difference between a Templar and a Sorcerer healer and you know why? Just because Templars have a whole skill line dedicated for healing while Sorcerers haven't.

We get your point. The problem is you do not get our point. We have made choices about class based on skill trees that are different that bring different abilities to the group. That is the whole point of having different classes. And, if we didn't have those differences everyone would be the same. Sure people would try different things as they leveled and such but by the time everyone got to end game they would all be the same. All the tanks would be the same build. All the dps would be the same build. And, all the healers would be the same build. There would basically be just three builds.

Then they should replace the resto staff skill line with an unarmed skill line. That way if you want to heal you have to be a templar.

Wow, so if you can't have one extreme you intend to take it to the other extreme.

No, what this would do is make it so that people that want to heal as x,y or z aren't excluded because of the class they picked. A lot of elitist *** say things like that.

Jaxsun · February 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

This post is just dumb. I do agree that they should add a more instant oh crap heal to the rest skill line but the templar healing tree is why I made a templar. If youre jealous of it, make one. I dont get to vanish like a NB. I dont get crit surge or hardened ward like a sorc. I dont get insane dots and burst damage like a dk. Right now ever class can heal, tank, and dps. #1 time on vet dsa leader boards is a SORC healer..... More than half of the templar heal tree doesn't even get used. They simply need to retweak the resto staff line. Get rid of the stupid shield people cheat with in pvp and give the tree an instant cast heal like Breath of Life. But every class can and does heal. I've healed on my dk, sorc, and templar. Its all about player skill really. As for you saying every tank, dps, and healer use the same build.... Youre just plain wrong. In my Sanctum group, we cycle between dk, sorc, and NB tanks and they all use different builds, gear, skills. Same for healers. No two templar styles are the same in my guild. Many vary with gear, skill usage, healing styles, and opinions. If you want to heal as another class, stop crying on the forums and go do it. Sorcs make awesome healers. Dks do as well. Nightblades even do to. You just need to work with what the class has. Resto tree has two skills that can be morphed into nearly instant heals. No they dont rival breath of life, but us templars dont get crit surge or igneous shield to boost our heals.

Lol, I'm not jealous of templars, I've been one since beta. I was merely posting another way they could provide skills for all players. They could have done this with all skills and done away with classes altogether. I'm not saying they do that just that it's another way to do it.

I actually think it could be better being a healer as a NB or sorc because you'd have less choices to make for healing abilities.

Morshire · February 2015

So I am not going to quote all the different things here, but I do like the fact that people are discussing the other possibilities. That was my point. If other classes had access to just BoL, or some healing skill equal, they could then be exactly as a Templar. So using that logic, I would want the other OP skills from other lines added so the Templar could do them. (Sarcastic)

I was a HA tank till VR5 on my Templar. I did just fine. Would it have been nice to fly onto walls like a DK, sure. Or bolt escape like a SORC, sure. But no problems as a tank. This is the point. Those small little differences is what makes the diversity possible. If you remove them, then we all play the same characters, just call them something different. The other classes don't need Temps healing skill tree, just like Temps or other classes don't need the class skills of the DK, etc. If people truly explore the lines and skills that they have when picking their class, they can achieve the same results. It is easier to tank as a DK, but I have run with a Temp tank and a NB tank.....no problems. I have run a pledge where I swapped with the tank for the last boss fight. We passed.

An elitist as you say, would tell you they are badass at whatever they do, not badass because they picked X class. Now if you had said that the restro staff skill line needed some additions, then I might be on board. But I think class skill lines should not be touched.

And this was never about proving you (meaning anyone who isn't agreeing with me) wrong. I was trying to show the diversity in skills allows every class to achieve the same goals. Yes, Templars have a skill line for healing, but it is called the support line. All classes have a support line. That support is different per class for a reason. You want negates, use X, you want super heals, use Y, etc. If you just start massing them together, then we get nothing in the way of diversity. And seriously, if you say that there wouldn't be hundreds of "uber" builds running around, then you haven't been in PVP when a hoard of DK's come flying onto the walls and storming a keep. If we added the Templars healing line, all you would achieve is giving them BoL so it would take less of them to take said keep. PERIOD. And ZOS would change it with a patch, and 30 days later, the next "uber" build would emerge. So much goes into making a character, and this whole thread is not even trying to acknowledge the "keyboard jokey" responsible for said character. If you are good, then the class skills are going to be secondary. If not, then you just need practice.

I run and rarely use any skills from the Restoring Light tree. It is not as badass as you make it out. If you removed BoL, then Temps would become few and far between. Cause beyond BoL, nothing, and I mean nothing, makes them superior at anything. That my friend, is just reality.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Morshire wrote: »

I was a HA tank till VR5 on my Templar. I did just fine. Would it have been nice to fly onto walls like a DK, sure. Or bolt escape like a SORC, sure. But no problems as a tank. This is the point. Those small little differences is what makes the diversity possible. If you remove them, then we all play the same characters, just call them something different.

Is it really that difficult to understand?

It's not about ONE or TWO skills. Templars got an ENTIRE skill line for healing. That aren't one or two skills, that are 6 + 4. That's a difference and you seem unwilling to understand that. Sure you can have Bolt Escape or Wings, but one skill doesn't make an entire skill line.

And furthermore, you again say everyone would play the same character? WRONG! We are playing the same character right now because there is no diversity. Every healer besides the Templars uses nearly similar builds because the options for them are very limited. If every class had an entire line dedicated for healing, there would be much more diversity in healing than there is now, just because 3x6 + 3x4 abilities would be new and unique to the class and not every healer must rely on the very limited Resto Staff.

DDuke · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Morshire wrote: »

I was a HA tank till VR5 on my Templar. I did just fine. Would it have been nice to fly onto walls like a DK, sure. Or bolt escape like a SORC, sure. But no problems as a tank. This is the point. Those small little differences is what makes the diversity possible. If you remove them, then we all play the same characters, just call them something different.

Is it really that difficult to understand?

It's not about ONE or TWO skills. Templars got an ENTIRE skill line for healing. That aren't one or two skills, that are 6 + 4. That's a difference and you seem unwilling to understand that. Sure you can have Bolt Escape or Wings, but one skill doesn't make an entire skill line.

And furthermore, you again say everyone would play the same character? WRONG! We are playing the same character right now because there is no diversity. Every healer besides the Templars uses nearly similar builds because the options for them are very limited. If every class had an entire line dedicated for healing, there would be much more diversity in healing than there is now, just because 3x6 + 3x4 abilities would be new and unique to the class and not every healer must rely on the very limited Resto Staff.

So, if everyone became even more of a healer (less than 10% of people are running without a heal in PvP), there'd be more diversity?

I'm sorry, but I don't really agree with that.

Restoration Staff atleast somehow manages to contain everyone from using heals, since it prevents you from using weapon skills.

It's not doing a good enough job though, you still see plenty of people running with restoration staff only on the second bar & having their megaburst high dps bar available by a simple weapon swap, or simply running class burst skills while using that Restoration Staff.

Healers should be healers.
Tanks should be tanks.
DPS should be DPS.
Hybrids should be hybrids (average, not equal on multiple aspects).

MMO Balance 101.

You know there's a problem when 90% of people are playing a "Healer Tank DPS" character in PvP.

Seraphyel · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

So, if everyone became even more of a healer (less than 10% of people are running without a heal in PvP), there'd be more diversity?

Healers should be healers.
Tanks should be tanks.
DPS should be DPS.
Hybrids should be hybrids (average, not equal on multiple aspects)..

More of a healer? Just because you have the skills for being a healer doesn't result in being a healer. Or is every Templar a healer?

And the other part of your post... what do you want to say? Healers should be healers, tanks should be tanks - sure about that. But those things should be limited by weapon, not by class choice.

Or how do you separate the classes into your schema?

Templar = Healer
DK = Tank

If you do so, it's exactly what shouldn't be. Either it should be Restoration Staff = Healer or (healer) DK = Tem = NB = Sorc = healer. You know what I want to say? Zenimax didn't want to limit roles for classes but in reality they did. It should be all about the chosen weapon / guild / skill line, not the class-choice. You know what I want to say?

Morshire · February 2015

I see what you are trying to say, but I still disagree. To do what you are suggesting, it wouldn't be just moving the Templar healing line. To truly achieve your goal, there would have to be multiple changes. To the weapon lines, to the class lines, etc. #1 for me, this game already has so many things wrong, why tempt fate? You keep calling it a "healing skill line", but let's really look at it:

BoL - need I do that?
Healing Ritual - some group heal, but mainly boost self heal
Restoring aura - Boost to heals
Cleansing Ritual - removes negative effects
Rune Focus - added armor and spell resist

ULTI - Right of Passage (Yes this is good, but the channeling makes it second to Nova. Hands down. Take it if it is so great. I have used it 2x in all the game time I have. Nova is not healing)

Not a healing skill line, or all the skills would be all heals. Support line. I am not going to list all the other skill trees that also support. Yes, the passives are better for healing, but the other lines also have good passives for support. Maybe not as good, but they are there. The only skill that does not have an equal in there is BoL. Period. It isn't hard to see what I mean either.

Tanking - DK has scales. Temps have Blazing Shield. No where near as good. The rest of the tanking skills come from 1H&SH and the Undaunted line. So one skill separates the two. Not rocket science. Temps tank just fine, but DK's do it easier (well arguably, not taking many factors into account and not trying to say this is fact). A DK could heal just fine, but a Templar does it easier. This is my point. A DK has way better passives for tanking too. The same argument applies for the NB and the SORC.

To do what you are suggesting, we need to change all the lines, so all the passives are equal, all the skills are equal. So show me the diversity in that. Cause if you want to "balance healing", and my Templar no longer shines in that area, then you have to compensate with a DPS line that is equal to all the other DPS skills and passives. And then they now need the tanking skills "balanced" to compensate for not dominating in the DPS race. It is just a mess. You cannot touch one thing without doing them all.

I hear you on your point. But for me, the class skills adds diversity. Now weapon skill lines, well those you can argue. I might even agree.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Oh, maybe you misunderstood me a bit:

I don't want that to be changed. It's very unlikely that it would happen - I just wanted to say how Zenimax announced their class system prior to the launch - and how it ended afterwards.

What I want to is that Zenimax brings up more options, especially for healers (they already said healers have the least skills in game and they wanted to change it, but that's already 8 months ago).

Could you tell me why there is no weapon ultimate? That would be one part of "solving" issues.

DDuke · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So, if everyone became even more of a healer (less than 10% of people are running without a heal in PvP), there'd be more diversity?

Healers should be healers.
Tanks should be tanks.
DPS should be DPS.
Hybrids should be hybrids (average, not equal on multiple aspects)..

More of a healer? Just because you have the skills for being a healer doesn't result in being a healer. Or is every Templar a healer?

And the other part of your post... what do you want to say? Healers should be healers, tanks should be tanks - sure about that. But those things should be limited by weapon, not by class choice.

Or how do you separate the classes into your schema?

Templar = Healer
DK = Tank

If you do so, it's exactly what shouldn't be. Either it should be Restoration Staff = Healer or (healer) DK = Tem = NB = Sorc = healer. You know what I want to say? Zenimax didn't want to limit roles for classes but in reality they did. It should be all about the chosen weapon / guild / skill line, not the class-choice. You know what I want to say?

I see.

While I think it's good to have each class have a "flavour", e.g. Class A getting more choices for tanking & class B getting more choices for burst dmg, I can agree with you that class shouldn't define the role you play.

The problem is that you can have multiple roles & perform at all of them excellently.

A person with Restoration Staff on one hand & Destruction Staff on the other will deal just as much damage as the person with Destruction Staff on both hands. In addition to that, the person with Restoration Staff will also be able to heal/shield without problem.

I think the best solution would be making Restoration Staff a lot stronger & include a strong instant cast heal similar to BoL, while separating the Templar heals by giving them some alternate benefits that make them worth using.

This would maintain the flavour of Templar class while addressing concerns.

Along with that, they should probably create separate stats for spell dmg & spell healing (currently spell dmg handles both), otherwise everyone is just going to run Restoration Staff (or some other kind of heal) on their bar(s), which doesn't really promote the diversity you talk about.

Morshire · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Oh, maybe you misunderstood me a bit:

I don't want that to be changed. It's very unlikely that it would happen - I just wanted to say how Zenimax announced their class system prior to the launch - and how it ended afterwards.

What I want to is that Zenimax brings up more options, especially for healers (they already said healers have the least skills in game and they wanted to change it, but that's already 8 months ago).

Could you tell me why there is no weapon ultimate? That would be one part of "solving" issues.

Okay, now we might be on common ground here. Yes, I think that weapons could have an ULTI. (NO, I cannot tell you why they don't) That would change the whole dynamics of choosing a weapon while still leaving diversity. Restro staff ULTI could be close to BoL even. The morphs could even be similar. 1H&SH could have something similar to a DK, ULTI could be close to scales (Just an example). But that ULTI should only be close to, not equal. This way, people still need to choose the class. And those classes still retain that strength/skill that makes them just above the others. That I could accept. I won't advocate for it. I like the challenge I face if I want to tank with my Temp. I don't want easiest. If I did, I would work more on my DK.

I also think that the guild skills should have more diversity and allow for some "specialization" through the choices. Just not class skills. They all need work (class skills), but don't take something away so that other "have access".

(And please, I am not trying to disrespect anyone or their characters with my comments) Cause I truly believe, skills are not going to make that "uber demigod" character. They may help them achieve that, but the "keyboard jokey" is the deciding factor. Just check the leaderboards. It is not classes or skills that regulate who hits it. It is players who max out their characters and learn to use what they have.

EDIT: And sorry @DDuke - I just agree with you, so there was no point quoting anything there.

Also agree with @Sheuib, @DeathDealer19 , and @Darkintellect (except the boring class for boring people part) so I just tagged them all with Agree and moved on.

Soulshine · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Oh, maybe you misunderstood me a bit:

I don't want that to be changed. It's very unlikely that it would happen - I just wanted to say how Zenimax announced their class system prior to the launch - and how it ended afterwards.

What I want to is that Zenimax brings up more options, especially for healers (they already said healers have the least skills in game and they wanted to change it, but that's already 8 months ago).

Could you tell me why there is no weapon ultimate? That would be one part of "solving" issues.

Given everything you have stated in this thread and your responses to everyone here who does not share your view, it becomes pretty clear what your issue actually is all about. You say you want there to be more skills and passives available for healing outside of Templars and inside a separate tree, including an ultimate, so everyone can use them.

Well, there are plenty of people in this game who have proven to be sufficiently skillfull on their class of choice and more than adept at healing to the point of landing onto the leaderboards of the game with the exact same set of tools you seem to think are inadequate.

You also keep blaming ZoS. Again, you confuse the ability to choose any role and any weapon with the ability to receive equal skills across all classes for all roles, no matter your choices. They never said this anyplace and you keep insisting that they did.

What you are actually asking for is a non-class restricted system, where unique skills are available to you without your having to concede anything in order to get them. That is not how this game was intended nor created to be.

You are also effectively asking to dismantle the system which is working very well for many just because it does not work for you.

There ARE other skills in different trees of the game which support healing very well and many players have figured this out and used them very well. Consider that now also that with the CS coming in with 1.6 there are additional passives for healing benefits which all players can add to their toolbox.

Asking for more or better skills in restro staff line is one thing; arguing that the reason you need this is because Templars have something no other class gets and therefore an entire other tree of skill sets needs to be added to the game for everyone to use because of this is something else entirely and has clearly got nothing to do with healing diversity not being present in the game, but rather your anger over Templars not being what you think they should be.

Morshire · February 2015

Soulshine wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Oh, maybe you misunderstood me a bit:

I don't want that to be changed. It's very unlikely that it would happen - I just wanted to say how Zenimax announced their class system prior to the launch - and how it ended afterwards.

What I want to is that Zenimax brings up more options, especially for healers (they already said healers have the least skills in game and they wanted to change it, but that's already 8 months ago).

Could you tell me why there is no weapon ultimate? That would be one part of "solving" issues.

Given everything you have stated in this thread and your responses to everyone here who does not share your view, it becomes pretty clear what your issue actually is all about. You say you want there to be more skills and passives available for healing outside of Templars and inside a separate tree, including an ultimate, so everyone can use them.

Well, there are plenty of people in this game who have proven to be sufficiently skillfull on their class of choice and more than adept at healing to the point of landing onto the leaderboards of the game with the exact same set of tools you seem to think are inadequate.

You also keep blaming ZoS. Again, you confuse the ability to choose any role and any weapon with the ability to receive equal skills across all classes for all roles, no matter your choices. They never said this anyplace and you keep insisting that they did.

What you are actually asking for is a non-class restricted system, where unique skills are available to you without your having to concede anything in order to get them. That is not how this game was intended nor created to be.

You are also effectively asking to dismantle the system which is working very well for many just because it does not work for you.

There ARE other skills in different trees of the game which support healing very well and many players have figured this out and used them very well. Consider that now also that with the CS coming in with 1.6 there are additional passives for healing benefits which all players can add to their toolbox.

Asking for more or better skills in restro staff line is one thing; arguing that the reason you need this is because Templars have something no other class gets and therefore an entire other tree of skill sets needs to be added to the game for everyone to use because of this is something else entirely and has clearly got nothing to do with healing diversity not being present in the game, but rather your anger over Templars not being what you think they should be.

That just gets an awesome.....and not in any negative, stupid demeaning way, but with a high five, you are truly awesome way.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Soulshine wrote: »

Given everything you have stated in this thread and your responses to everyone here who does not share your view, it becomes pretty clear what your issue actually is all about. You say you want there to be more skills and passives available for healing outside of Templars and inside a separate tree, including an ultimate, so everyone can use them.

1. Well, there are plenty of people in this game who have proven to be sufficiently skillfull on their class of choice and more than adept at healing to the point of landing onto the leaderboards of the game with the exact same set of tools you seem to think are inadequate.

2. You also keep blaming ZoS. Again, you confuse the ability to choose any role and any weapon with the ability to receive equal skills across all classes for all roles, no matter your choices. They never said this anyplace and you keep insisting that they did.

3. What you are actually asking for is a non-class restricted system, where unique skills are available to you without your having to concede anything in order to get them. That is not how this game was intended nor created to be.

4. You are also effectively asking to dismantle the system which is working very well for many just because it does not work for you.

5. There ARE other skills in different trees of the game which support healing very well and many players have figured this out and used them very well. Consider that now also that with the CS coming in with 1.6 there are additional passives for healing benefits which all players can add to their toolbox.

6. Asking for more or better skills in restro staff line is one thing; arguing that the reason you need this is because Templars have something no other class gets and therefore an entire other tree of skill sets needs to be added to the game for everyone to use because of this is something else entirely and has clearly got nothing to do with healing diversity not being present in the game, but rather your anger over Templars not being what you think they should be.

1. I never said other healers can't heal through challenges. I know it works, the question here is how it works. Please compare all those healers and then tell me something about diversity. They tend to use at least 3-4 similar skills although they're different classes. Then tell me please why they are nearly the same although you say there are more than enough choices outside the Resto Staff tree.

2. Sure I keep blaming Zenimax. And no, I don't confuse anything. I don't want equal skills across all classes for al roles, I said I want all classes to have distinct trees for each of the three roles. I used the Templar as an example cause it's the only class that has a class line dedicated for healing. I keep insisting on that, cause they said it.

3. What? I never said anything like this. I want classes and I want diversity in classes, I just want to have a better approach on them so that every class has got a distinct talent tree for every role. I don't want to remove classes and make the skill likes available for everybody.

4. Again, never said that.

5. As I questioned in 1., please tell me why most of them aren't used. I think you know the answer, as well do I. Sure, in the end CS doesn't change anything. It's nice that there are healing passives, but Templars still have 6+4 more. You see the issue? It doesn't matter how many more they add, there will ALWAYS be this difference. It's not problem at all when Zenimax would offer more options.

6. I never said we need more Resto Staff heals because Templars have an entire healing-class-line. If so, Templars would get them too and the effect would be quite... unreasonable, wouldn't it? I have absolutely no issue with Templars, I could play one if I want to, but I don't.

Morshire · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

5. As I questioned in 1., please tell me why most of them aren't used. I think you know the answer, as well do I. Sure, in the end CS doesn't change anything. It's nice that there are healing passives, but Templars still have 6+4 more. You see the issue? It doesn't matter how many more they add, there will ALWAYS be this difference. It's not problem at all when Zenimax would offer more options.

6. I never said we need more Resto Staff heals because Templars have an entire healing-class-line. If so, Templars would get them too and the effect would be quite... unreasonable, wouldn't it? I have absolutely no issue with Templars, I could play one if I want to, but I don't.

5. And the bold for you. Yes Templars have the 6+4, but they sacrifice having that instead of others. DK's have great passives that increase their incoming. So one compliments the other.

6. Also bold for you. It is not an "entire line" as I already showed. It is however, a support line focused on healing. The other lines also support with the focus on negates or shields.

This all equal diversity, not hindering. Whether you agree or disagree, if someone grabs a DK, NB, or SORC and wants to heal, they will. I did agree that the weapons lines could use work. But to me, it isn't game breaking enough to warrant me fighting for it. I personally use BoL, sometimes Purifying Ritual, and then skills that all others have or they are not from Restoring Light. Similarly, others do the same. Effective healing is not dictated by class skills, but by player skill. I would love to have other healing skill options through weapon lines. But that would be because of wanting options, not because I need them.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Morshire wrote: »

I would love to have other healing skill options through weapon lines.

That's what my posts are about.

Soulshine · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Given everything you have stated in this thread and your responses to everyone here who does not share your view, it becomes pretty clear what your issue actually is all about. You say you want there to be more skills and passives available for healing outside of Templars and inside a separate tree, including an ultimate, so everyone can use them.

1. Well, there are plenty of people in this game who have proven to be sufficiently skillfull on their class of choice and more than adept at healing to the point of landing onto the leaderboards of the game with the exact same set of tools you seem to think are inadequate.

2. You also keep blaming ZoS. Again, you confuse the ability to choose any role and any weapon with the ability to receive equal skills across all classes for all roles, no matter your choices. They never said this anyplace and you keep insisting that they did.

3. What you are actually asking for is a non-class restricted system, where unique skills are available to you without your having to concede anything in order to get them. That is not how this game was intended nor created to be.

4. You are also effectively asking to dismantle the system which is working very well for many just because it does not work for you.

5. There ARE other skills in different trees of the game which support healing very well and many players have figured this out and used them very well. Consider that now also that with the CS coming in with 1.6 there are additional passives for healing benefits which all players can add to their toolbox.

6. Asking for more or better skills in restro staff line is one thing; arguing that the reason you need this is because Templars have something no other class gets and therefore an entire other tree of skill sets needs to be added to the game for everyone to use because of this is something else entirely and has clearly got nothing to do with healing diversity not being present in the game, but rather your anger over Templars not being what you think they should be.

1. I never said other healers can't heal through challenges. I know it works, the question here is how it works. Please compare all those healers and then tell me something about diversity. They tend to use at least 3-4 similar skills although they're different classes. Then tell me please why they are nearly the same although you say there are more than enough choices outside the Resto Staff tree.

2. Sure I keep blaming Zenimax. And no, I don't confuse anything. I don't want equal skills across all classes for al roles, I said I want all classes to have distinct trees for each of the three roles. I used the Templar as an example cause it's the only class that has a class line dedicated for healing. I keep insisting on that, cause they said it.

3. What? I never said anything like this. I want classes and I want diversity in classes, I just want to have a better approach on them so that every class has got a distinct talent tree for every role. I don't want to remove classes and make the skill likes available for everybody.

4. Again, never said that.

5. As I questioned in 1., please tell me why most of them aren't used. I think you know the answer, as well do I. Sure, in the end CS doesn't change anything. It's nice that there are healing passives, but Templars still have 6+4 more. You see the issue? It doesn't matter how many more they add, there will ALWAYS be this difference. It's not problem at all when Zenimax would offer more options.

6. I never said we need more Resto Staff heals because Templars have an entire healing-class-line. If so, Templars would get them too and the effect would be quite... unreasonable, wouldn't it? I have absolutely no issue with Templars, I could play one if I want to, but I don't.

Again the complaints you are making are two distintcly different issues and not ZoS' problem but rather your own. You continue to mistake this for a class balance problem. Provide an actual quote where it was ever stated that all classes would have a healing line in their class skills. They never said this anyplace.

What they said ---- again ---- was that all players would have the ability to choose their own role in the game and whatever weapon and armor they please, to create a playstyle they most enjoy. The classes in the game were created around archetypes and would be a framework for that process. The rest, is entirely up to the player.

Limiting healing to the use of 3-4 skills as you keep going on about is never what good, non-Templar healers would do or be limited by. You seem to think that healing is just and only about button mashing a heal specific skill. It isn't.

I am also not sure what type of content you run or with who, but the NB and Sorc healers I have seen do not just use 3 skills; again restro staff tree is not the only tree with healing options in it. Your perception may be that none exist and that no one uses them, but that doesn't make it accurate. Constantly arguing that Templars have "more" therefore they are better and should not be is your issue, not what is in fact available to players in the game. As is, I have seen some really bad Templar healers.

As I originally stated, the class system here is a framework. This conversation would be no different if we were discussing how to tank as NB or Sorc or a Templar, rather than a DK. Your intelligence, skills, and ability to create something unique within the framework chosen is what makes this game unique and fun. Others are finding this works for them, so its fairly obvious that if it is not for you, it is not an issue with the tools available but how you are choosing to look at and use them. Nothing more.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Soulshine, I don't want to discuss the same things any longer and to be honest I don't see any use of continuing it and saying everything again and again. Everything you brought up in your latest post - again - was mentioned or clarified by me in earlier postings.

Nevertheless, thank's for the discussion.