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Ideas on healing abilities, maybe playing more as you want.
Jaxsun
✭✭✭✭
Instead of having a "healing" line in the Templar tree, remove it and replace with dps and send all the healing type abilities to a new skill line in the Mages guild or something of the like. That way no matter what class you pick you can heal with the same abilities as everyone else. I know this can already be done to a certain extent with a resto staff if you're not a Templar but it makes more sense to me for this game to have it in a tree accessible to everyone regardless of class.
1
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jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭The problem is this game allows people to heal and do dps.
heal/tank/dps hybrids makes for hybrids builds being dominant. It would habe made more sense to use resources based on these.
The game will always be flawed unless stam is not used for blocking, rumning, dodging and weapon skills.
I was amazed at release at this poorly considered design and am sceptical of 1.6.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO43 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I liked the idea of 3 different versions of the restoration staff, just like there are fire, frost and lightning destruction staves.
Blood, Light and Nature, 3 types that would get different variants of the current resto staff abilities and allow more diversity in healing gameplay.Edited by Gyudan on February 27, 2015 5:49AMWololo.7 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭No. Just no.
Sure. There is absolutely no reason for Templars having an exclusive skill line dedicated for healing.No bad ide. way do all classes need to be able to heal?
Yes. That's what ESO is about. Every class should have the same options to fulfill every role.Edited by Seraphyel on February 27, 2015 8:24AM0 -
arqe✭✭✭
And every class have same options.
You can still heal with every class , you can still tank with every class , you can deal damage with every class ...1 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭
And every class have same options.
You can still heal with every class , you can still tank with every class , you can deal damage with every class ...
Same options? Yeah, that's why Templar healers are the only healers with a huge burst heal, can revive faster or have way more healing options than every other healer. Or why DKs / Templars are favoured tanks...
As soon as a class has a whole skill line dedicated for a role, there is no longer equality for the classes.Edited by Seraphyel on February 27, 2015 8:35AM2 -
arqe✭✭✭
And every class have same options.
You can still heal with every class , you can still tank with every class , you can deal damage with every class ...
Same options? Yeah, that's why Templar healers are the only healers with a huge burst heal, can revive faster or have way more healing options than every other healer. Or why DKs / Templars are favoured tanks...
As soon as a class has a whole skill line dedicated for a role, there is no longer equality for the classes.
As a templar , why cant i summon minions then ? Or drain hp , move speed , attack speed ?
What you asking is related with what we are all asking. Remove Class system completely. Not fix how class system works.
Just remove it completely. We dont need classes ( class skills more likely ) , that is why i ( we ) disagree with you.
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Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭As a templar , why cant i summon minions then ? Or drain hp , move speed , attack speed ?
What you asking is related with what we are all asking. Remove Class system completely. Not fix how class system works.
Just remove it completely. We dont need classes ( class skills more likely ) , that is why i ( we ) disagree with you.Yes, let's all just be the same. Wouldn't that be fun.
You both don't get the point.
ESOs approach on character progression was, that every class can handle every role - sure, every class can fulfill every role, but there are huge differences.
Zenimax destroyed their reasoning behind the ESO skill system when they gave Templars a whole tree for healing (and tanking as well) and DKs a whole tree for tanking and Nightblades and Sorcerers got nothing special in that case.
Not everybody should be the same but that's what is happening right now - most healers are the same because of Resto Staff, most tanks are the same because of Sword & Shield.
With more diversity in classes and their skill lines, every class should have special skills for the three main roles (healer, tank, DPS).
Templars right now have 6 + 5 active skills for healing through their class line and Resto Staff - next to that, they have 4 + 5 passives for healing.
In comparison, Nightblades have 2,5 + 5 active skills and 1 + 5 passive skills for healing.
DKs have 1 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.
Sorcerers have 0 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.
So, in the end we have:
Templar: 11 active skills / 9 passive skills
Nightblade: 7,5 active skills / 6 passive skills
Dragon Knight: 6 active skills / 5 passive skills
Sorcerers: 5 active skills / 5 passive skills
There is a huge difference between a Templar and a Sorcerer healer and you know why? Just because Templars have a whole skill line dedicated for healing while Sorcerers haven't.1 -
Sheuib✭✭✭✭As a templar , why cant i summon minions then ? Or drain hp , move speed , attack speed ?
What you asking is related with what we are all asking. Remove Class system completely. Not fix how class system works.
Just remove it completely. We dont need classes ( class skills more likely ) , that is why i ( we ) disagree with you.Yes, let's all just be the same. Wouldn't that be fun.
You both don't get the point.
ESOs approach on character progression was, that every class can handle every role - sure, every class can fulfill every role, but there are huge differences.
Zenimax destroyed their reasoning behind the ESO skill system when they gave Templars a whole tree for healing (and tanking as well) and DKs a whole tree for tanking and Nightblades and Sorcerers got nothing special in that case.
Not everybody should be the same but that's what is happening right now - most healers are the same because of Resto Staff, most tanks are the same because of Sword & Shield.
With more diversity in classes and their skill lines, every class should have special skills for the three main roles (healer, tank, DPS).
Templars right now have 6 + 5 active skills for healing through their class line and Resto Staff - next to that, they have 4 + 5 passives for healing.
In comparison, Nightblades have 2,5 + 5 active skills and 1 + 5 passive skills for healing.
DKs have 1 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.
Sorcerers have 0 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.
So, in the end we have:
Templar: 11 active skills / 9 passive skills
Nightblade: 7,5 active skills / 6 passive skills
Dragon Knight: 6 active skills / 5 passive skills
Sorcerers: 5 active skills / 5 passive skills
There is a huge difference between a Templar and a Sorcerer healer and you know why? Just because Templars have a whole skill line dedicated for healing while Sorcerers haven't.
We get your point. The problem is you do not get our point. We have made choices about class based on skill trees that are different that bring different abilities to the group. That is the whole point of having different classes. And, if we didn't have those differences everyone would be the same. Sure people would try different things as they leveled and such but by the time everyone got to end game they would all be the same. All the tanks would be the same build. All the dps would be the same build. And, all the healers would be the same build. There would basically be just three builds.0 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭We get your point. The problem is you do not get our point. We have made choices about class based on skill trees that are different that bring different abilities to the group. That is the whole point of having different classes. And, if we didn't have those differences everyone would be the same. Sure people would try different things as they leveled and such but by the time everyone got to end game they would all be the same. All the tanks would be the same build. All the dps would be the same build. And, all the healers would be the same build. There would basically be just three builds.
And exactly that is (or better "was) wrong. ESO wanted to take another course in the class-direction, look for some Zenimax statements regarding this topic. After release they scrapped it, but before launch they wanted to open up every role for every class and that they could fill them equally good. Unfortunately the reality tells another story.
What you describe is exactly what is happening right now. Every healer, every tank is the same. Exactly that should have been avoided with Zenimax different approach.
If every class has a unique tree for healing and tanking, there wouldn't be less similarities than now when e.g. every healer besides Templars is limited to the Resto Staff abilities.
To choose your class because "only" Templars have a dedicated healing tree or DKs a dedicated tank tree is exactly what Zenimax wanted to prevent.Edited by Seraphyel on February 27, 2015 10:49AM0 -
kongkim✭✭✭✭✭Don't think many agree with you. And don't like all classes be good at every thing. Giving all people strong healing is not a good idee. Then give all pets and burst damage as well. Same thing.
Its would be a whole different class and skill system, if you allowed it like. also fine, but don't see a reason to make it like that i this game. Batter they use time on new stuff, then changing things that already is.Edited by kongkim on February 27, 2015 12:07PM0 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why would anyone want access to the entire templar healing three? It's about as stupid as begging devs to give everyone multiple pet toggles...Quantity doesn't mean effectiveness. Most stuff in the Restoring Light three is replaced or even out-shined by other skill lines.
There's only 1 single templar healing skill that interests me as a NB, sorc or DK. That's Rushed Ceremony, the only insta-cast burst heal in the game. But all classes have unique skills, so full out switcheroo?
There's DK skills I need when tanking on my Templar or NB. Dragon Blood, only strong self-heal in the game for a tank. Talons, only PBAoE root in the game. Chains, only skill in the game that allows a tank to pull and group up ranged adds. Only skill with a similar effects is an ultimate and also restricted to DK
My NB wants the sorcerers Hardened Ward please. My templar wants Mage's Fury for caster dps. My DK takes Blazing Shield, because OP wants more OP. My sorcerer needs a DoT for dps, I'll use Crippling Grasp from the NB class.
Point is, this discussion involves more than healers. There's absolutely no reason why certain unique skills should be open for everyone because they "heal", while other goodies are restricted to class. All roles are important, while all classes lack tools in certain roles. You can heal a group without Rushed Ceremony, you can tank without Chains and Talons, you can dps without an execute. But it's harder, more annoying even. Should it stay, or give all classes perfectly balanced tools for any role?1 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭As a templar , why cant i summon minions then ? Or drain hp , move speed , attack speed ?
What you asking is related with what we are all asking. Remove Class system completely. Not fix how class system works.
Just remove it completely. We dont need classes ( class skills more likely ) , that is why i ( we ) disagree with you.Yes, let's all just be the same. Wouldn't that be fun.
You both don't get the point.
ESOs approach on character progression was, that every class can handle every role - sure, every class can fulfill every role, but there are huge differences.
Zenimax destroyed their reasoning behind the ESO skill system when they gave Templars a whole tree for healing (and tanking as well) and DKs a whole tree for tanking and Nightblades and Sorcerers got nothing special in that case.
Not everybody should be the same but that's what is happening right now - most healers are the same because of Resto Staff, most tanks are the same because of Sword & Shield.
With more diversity in classes and their skill lines, every class should have special skills for the three main roles (healer, tank, DPS).
Templars right now have 6 + 5 active skills for healing through their class line and Resto Staff - next to that, they have 4 + 5 passives for healing.
In comparison, Nightblades have 2,5 + 5 active skills and 1 + 5 passive skills for healing.
DKs have 1 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.
Sorcerers have 0 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.
So, in the end we have:
Templar: 11 active skills / 9 passive skills
Nightblade: 7,5 active skills / 6 passive skills
Dragon Knight: 6 active skills / 5 passive skills
Sorcerers: 5 active skills / 5 passive skills
There is a huge difference between a Templar and a Sorcerer healer and you know why? Just because Templars have a whole skill line dedicated for healing while Sorcerers haven't.
We get your point. The problem is you do not get our point. We have made choices about class based on skill trees that are different that bring different abilities to the group. That is the whole point of having different classes. And, if we didn't have those differences everyone would be the same. Sure people would try different things as they leveled and such but by the time everyone got to end game they would all be the same. All the tanks would be the same build. All the dps would be the same build. And, all the healers would be the same build. There would basically be just three builds.
Then they should replace the resto staff skill line with an unarmed skill line. That way if you want to heal you have to be a templar.0 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭And exactly that is (or better "was) wrong. ESO wanted to take another course in the class-direction, look for some Zenimax statements regarding this topic. After release they scrapped it, but before launch they wanted to open up every role for every class and that they could fill them equally good. Unfortunately the reality tells another story.
The reality is that you have confused the ability to choose any role and any weapon, which ZoS most certainly did give us, with the ability to receive equal skills across all classes no matter your choices. They never said this anyplace.
All roles can and ARE filled by any class, but you will never get a guaratee that all roles chosen will be optimal for every class, considering the way they have been made.
There is a reason for this which you are overlooking.
The class system on which this game is based is in of itself but one determining factor for how each role choice and each weapon choice that you make is translated into gameplay - all are made more or less effective by player skill.
At this point, there are many players in the game who have repeartedly demostrated in PvP, let alone Trials, vet DSA and in SO that is possible to be an excellent NB healer, or and excellent Sorc tank, etc. Those players took less that optimal skill trees and through armor, weapons, stat choices, etc. created something unique - enough to land them on leader boards in some cases.
What you are asking for is to make all choices devoid of meaning since all paths would lead to the same pool, regardless of player skill.
Leave the class system alone please.1 -
Morshire✭✭✭✭These threads just make me laugh. Anyone who screams for this obviously has not explored the skills, in there entirety. Templars have Breath of Life. That's it, that's the one healing skill that separates them from others. OP, if that one skill is what you think will make or break a group, then there is something wrong with your healing style, or with the group that you are running with. I too am a Templar healer. If I am in a group that requires me to just heal with BoL, I complain, or tell people to change, I argue, I get mad, etc. BoL is the only skill I have that no one else has. So if this is why you want others to have access, why not just ask that we get rid of all the skills, and let everyone just have the best ones from each class. Sounds better to me (sarcastic).
I have BoL on bar #1 and Luminous Shards on bar #2 (Not from Restoring Light) and the ULTI is Nova (Also not Restoring Light). That is all for my Templar skills. I am VR14, and I run Vet Pledges. I haven't done Trials, but I doubt my game style is going to change that drastically.
And this cracks me up, thanks for the laugh:Instead of having a "healing" line in the Templar tree, remove it and replace with dps...
We already have Dawn's Wrath for DPS. So we should have 2 trees of mediocre DPS skills. Oh joy. Let me jump on that. Seriously, if BoL makes Temps so badass, people should stop being envious and make a Templar. Know why people don't? Cause short of healing, Temps have to work harder to do anything else.
This argument has so many points to break open, but I will leave it at that. If you want a game that has only 10 of the best skills and one ULTI choice (which is exactly what we would have if you pursue this) then go play Mario Cart or something. Everyone can drive the same cars.
Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.1 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭These threads just make me laugh. Anyone who screams for this obviously has not explored the skills, in there entirety. Templars have Breath of Life. That's it, that's the one healing skill that separates them from others. OP, if that one skill is what you think will make or break a group, then there is something wrong with your healing style, or with the group that you are running with. I too am a Templar healer. If I am in a group that requires me to just heal with BoL, I complain, or tell people to change, I argue, I get mad, etc. BoL is the only skill I have that no one else has. So if this is why you want others to have access, why not just ask that we get rid of all the skills, and let everyone just have the best ones from each class. Sounds better to me (sarcastic).
I have BoL on bar #1 and Luminous Shards on bar #2 (Not from Restoring Light) and the ULTI is Nova (Also not Restoring Light). That is all for my Templar skills. I am VR14, and I run Vet Pledges. I haven't done Trials, but I doubt my game style is going to change that drastically.
And this cracks me up, thanks for the laugh:Instead of having a "healing" line in the Templar tree, remove it and replace with dps...
We already have Dawn's Wrath for DPS. So we should have 2 trees of mediocre DPS skills. Oh joy. Let me jump on that. Seriously, if BoL makes Temps so badass, people should stop being envious and make a Templar. Know why people don't? Cause short of healing, Temps have to work harder to do anything else.
This argument has so many points to break open, but I will leave it at that. If you want a game that has only 10 of the best skills and one ULTI choice (which is exactly what we would have if you pursue this) then go play Mario Cart or something. Everyone can drive the same cars.
First of all, what the *** are you talking about? I never said anything about Breath of Life being the only skill that separates Templar healers from those that use just a resto staff.
Second, go ahead and break them open, then maybe you'll have something constructive and interesting to say.
Breath of life is not the only Restoring Light ability worth using. Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual, Repentance/Radiant Aura and Rune focus have their uses. Especially in PVP. If you don't pvp then purifying ritual is a must for DoT clears.
If the healing tree was moved how would a second dps line be any different than the way the other classes work?0 -
Morshire✭✭✭✭Okay, so to be polite about this, let's "break down" what you said and my responses in a manner that doesn't require a **&^(*&^Y*&^%(*&^&^%R*&^% fit:Instead of having a "healing" line in the Templar tree, remove it and replace with dps...
So all the classes have a healing/tanking/DPS skills. Whether one is better than the other is obvious. So the other lines will have all three, but the Templar should have 2 DPS and a tanking skill tree? Notice that you went for the Templar line, but not the others right? So it must be the Templar skills that are a must for you, not the others.That way no matter what class you pick you can heal with the same abilities as everyone else. I know this can already be done to a certain extent with a resto staff if you're not a Templar but it makes more sense to me for this game to have it in a tree accessible to everyone regardless of class.
This last part is what the rest of my comment was about. So you keep calling for Templar skills, not all the others. Why? Cause presumably Templars are the best. I pointed out the rest here for you:Templars have Breath of Life. That's it, that's the one healing skill that separates them from others. OP, if that one skill is what you think will make or break a group, then there is something wrong with your healing style, or with the group that you are running with. I too am a Templar healer. If I am in a group that requires me to just heal with BoL, I complain, or tell people to change, I argue, I get mad, etc. BoL is the only skill I have that no one else has. So if this is why you want others to have access, why not just ask that we get rid of all the skills, and let everyone just have the best ones from each class. Sounds better to me (sarcastic).
I have BoL on bar #1 and Luminous Shards on bar #2 (Not from Restoring Light) and the ULTI is Nova (Also not Restoring Light). That is all for my Templar skills. I am VR14, and I run Vet Pledges. I haven't done Trials, but I doubt my game style is going to change that drastically.
I do PVP. And I also do not rely purely on the Templar skills. Any other class can be on equal footing IF you remove BoL.Breath of life is not the only Restoring Light ability worth using. Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual, Repentance/Radiant Aura and Rune focus have their uses. Especially in PVP. If you don't pvp then purifying ritual is a must for DoT clears.
If the healing tree was moved how would a second dps line be any different than the way the other classes work?
Purifying Ritual is a must you say......try the support line and use Efficient Purge. Works just as good (arguably better in PVP) and has the same effect. Best of all, everyone can use it. Repentance you say, seriously bud. If the bodies are not piling up, it isn't that great. When I am grinding it is good, but not much beyond that. Next is Rune Focus: Well honestly I had to look it up cause I don't use it. Know what I do use instead....Combat Prayer. Another good skill open to all. So that about sums up your tirade. The only skill that does not have an equal in the Restoring Light line is Breath Of Life. That is the only skill you really have that needs to be open to all according to you. So any other class can get to equal ground with the Templar, without changing anything, if we do not count BoL. So exactly what skills need to "open to all if not this? Well let me show you a skill set that works for all:
Healing Springs
Combat Prayer
Spell Symmetry / Efficient Purge (You pick)
Inner Light
(*Here's where it gets tricky for you. Templars use BoL. Non Templars would use X)
That is a full bar my friend. One F***ING skill that separates Templars from the rest. If everyone else had any good skills to throw in there, you'd be asking for that. But ya don't, you are simply asking for BoL to be accessible to all.
So now that I went for the long version, I will re state my original thought:
Anyone who screams for this obviously has not explored the skills, in there entirety.
And please, go read the other skill lines and see that they too have healing skills. Maybe not on par with the Templar, but they are there.
Edited by Morshire on February 28, 2015 1:20AMFollow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.0 -
Morshire✭✭✭✭DK Earthen Heart - More of a support skill tree, Earthern Heart lets you power up your allies. This is the tree for you if your looking to play a ranged version of the Dragon Knight, where you can run around with a bow while supporting your allies.
SORC Dark Magic - This tree allows the mage to deal damage while also disabling and hindering the performance of the enemy. This tree is great for the mage who is looking to support their team rather than deal straight damage.
NB Siphoning - All about sustaining the player, the Siphoning skill tree allows the player to constantly regenerate their own resource pools while draining it from their enemy. This skill tree is great for the player who wants to be the lone wolf and battle targets 1 on 1.
TEMP Restoring Light - A powerful healing skill tree, Restoring Light allows you to keep your party alive with potent restorative spells. Although you could still opt to remain a melee fighter, this skill tree also opens up the option of playing the Templar as a ranged character, or even a mage.
Just in case you needed the version that explains what lines every class has already that makes them similar and not as you say:If the healing tree was moved how would a second dps line be any different than the way the other classes work?
Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.0 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. That's what ESO is about. Every class should have the same options to fulfill every role.
No, they shouldn't, because there are classes in this game. If ESO was about every class having the same options, there wouldn't even be classes in the first place.
You're free to "Play it how you want" but if you want to play it as a healer, I'd suggest playing a templar. If you decide to go with a nightblade for healing, you're still playing it how you want. You can't expect the game to let you do anything you want, and still offer you the same benefits, because if it did, there would essentially be no options, because every build would be viable for everything.
I couldn't disagree with you more.[DC/NA]2 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭Okay, so to be polite about this, let's "break down" what you said and my responses in a manner that doesn't require a **&^(*&^Y*&^%(*&^&^%R*&^% fit:Instead of having a "healing" line in the Templar tree, remove it and replace with dps...
So all the classes have a healing/tanking/DPS skills. Whether one is better than the other is obvious. So the other lines will have all three, but the Templar should have 2 DPS and a tanking skill tree? Notice that you went for the Templar line, but not the others right? So it must be the Templar skills that are a must for you, not the others.That way no matter what class you pick you can heal with the same abilities as everyone else. I know this can already be done to a certain extent with a resto staff if you're not a Templar but it makes more sense to me for this game to have it in a tree accessible to everyone regardless of class.
This last part is what the rest of my comment was about. So you keep calling for Templar skills, not all the others. Why? Cause presumably Templars are the best. I pointed out the rest here for you:Templars have Breath of Life. That's it, that's the one healing skill that separates them from others. OP, if that one skill is what you think will make or break a group, then there is something wrong with your healing style, or with the group that you are running with. I too am a Templar healer. If I am in a group that requires me to just heal with BoL, I complain, or tell people to change, I argue, I get mad, etc. BoL is the only skill I have that no one else has. So if this is why you want others to have access, why not just ask that we get rid of all the skills, and let everyone just have the best ones from each class. Sounds better to me (sarcastic).
I have BoL on bar #1 and Luminous Shards on bar #2 (Not from Restoring Light) and the ULTI is Nova (Also not Restoring Light). That is all for my Templar skills. I am VR14, and I run Vet Pledges. I haven't done Trials, but I doubt my game style is going to change that drastically.
I do PVP. And I also do not rely purely on the Templar skills. Any other class can be on equal footing IF you remove BoL.Breath of life is not the only Restoring Light ability worth using. Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual, Repentance/Radiant Aura and Rune focus have their uses. Especially in PVP. If you don't pvp then purifying ritual is a must for DoT clears.
If the healing tree was moved how would a second dps line be any different than the way the other classes work?
Purifying Ritual is a must you say......try the support line and use Efficient Purge. Works just as good (arguably better in PVP) and has the same effect. Best of all, everyone can use it. Repentance you say, seriously bud. If the bodies are not piling up, it isn't that great. When I am grinding it is good, but not much beyond that. Next is Rune Focus: Well honestly I had to look it up cause I don't use it. Know what I do use instead....Combat Prayer. Another good skill open to all. So that about sums up your tirade. The only skill that does not have an equal in the Restoring Light line is Breath Of Life. That is the only skill you really have that needs to be open to all according to you. So any other class can get to equal ground with the Templar, without changing anything, if we do not count BoL. So exactly what skills need to "open to all if not this? Well let me show you a skill set that works for all:
Healing Springs
Combat Prayer
Spell Symmetry / Efficient Purge (You pick)
Inner Light
(*Here's where it gets tricky for you. Templars use BoL. Non Templars would use X)
That is a full bar my friend. One F***ING skill that separates Templars from the rest. If everyone else had any good skills to throw in there, you'd be asking for that. But ya don't, you are simply asking for BoL to be accessible to all.
So now that I went for the long version, I will re state my original thought:
Anyone who screams for this obviously has not explored the skills, in there entirety.
And please, go read the other skill lines and see that they too have healing skills. Maybe not on par with the Templar, but they are there.
I said if you don't pvp you will need purify for dot clears, meaning you won't have efficient purge if you don't pvp. You have to be careful where you use efficient purge in pvp because it's broken when combined with wall of elements. That bug is supposed to be fixed for 1.6 though. And if you're using healing springs and combat prayer, among other ground effects, in pvp they are absorbed by negates and return resources to the opponents standing in them, a bad combination. So, sure, you have a chance to be healing your group members but you're also giving the opponent it's resources back while depleting yours.
The point of this post was to show another way to have skill lines in place instead of them being class specific. I don't care if you agree or not. I'm not saying that the current way is good or bad or that what I mentioned is good/bad or better. Simply a different way to do it. You've turned it into a war on breath of life and somehow managed to think that I'm screaming for all of the best skills to be available to everyone.0 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭DK Earthen Heart - More of a support skill tree, Earthern Heart lets you power up your allies. This is the tree for you if your looking to play a ranged version of the Dragon Knight, where you can run around with a bow while supporting your allies.
SORC Dark Magic - This tree allows the mage to deal damage while also disabling and hindering the performance of the enemy. This tree is great for the mage who is looking to support their team rather than deal straight damage.
NB Siphoning - All about sustaining the player, the Siphoning skill tree allows the player to constantly regenerate their own resource pools while draining it from their enemy. This skill tree is great for the player who wants to be the lone wolf and battle targets 1 on 1.
TEMP Restoring Light - A powerful healing skill tree, Restoring Light allows you to keep your party alive with potent restorative spells. Although you could still opt to remain a melee fighter, this skill tree also opens up the option of playing the Templar as a ranged character, or even a mage.
Just in case you needed the version that explains what lines every class has already that makes them similar and not as you say:If the healing tree was moved how would a second dps line be any different than the way the other classes work?
LOLWUT, Templar is the only class that has a healing specific tree. You can replace it with an "I banged your mom" tree instead of dps if you like. It would then be the same as the other 3 classes. As all 4 would have 3 trees, none of which are healing specific.0 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭DK Earthen Heart - More of a support skill tree, Earthern Heart lets you power up your allies. This is the tree for you if your looking to play a ranged version of the Dragon Knight, where you can run around with a bow while supporting your allies.
SORC Dark Magic - This tree allows the mage to deal damage while also disabling and hindering the performance of the enemy. This tree is great for the mage who is looking to support their team rather than deal straight damage.
NB Siphoning - All about sustaining the player, the Siphoning skill tree allows the player to constantly regenerate their own resource pools while draining it from their enemy. This skill tree is great for the player who wants to be the lone wolf and battle targets 1 on 1.
TEMP Restoring Light - A powerful healing skill tree, Restoring Light allows you to keep your party alive with potent restorative spells. Although you could still opt to remain a melee fighter, this skill tree also opens up the option of playing the Templar as a ranged character, or even a mage.
Just in case you needed the version that explains what lines every class has already that makes them similar and not as you say:If the healing tree was moved how would a second dps line be any different than the way the other classes work?
Supporting and healing aren't the same. There are three distinct roles in every MMORPG: Tank, Healer, Damage Dealer.
Templars have a class line for each of that.
You don't get the issue here with everything Zenimax wanted to avoid but in reality brought it into the game. And it's not about Breath of Life, they have an ENTIRE class line devoted for healing. 6 actives + 4 passives.Yes. That's what ESO is about. Every class should have the same options to fulfill every role.
No, they shouldn't, because there are classes in this game. If ESO was about every class having the same options, there wouldn't even be classes in the first place.
You're free to "Play it how you want" but if you want to play it as a healer, I'd suggest playing a templar. If you decide to go with a nightblade for healing, you're still playing it how you want. You can't expect the game to let you do anything you want, and still offer you the same benefits, because if it did, there would essentially be no options, because every build would be viable for everything.
I couldn't disagree with you more.
You are wrong, sorry to say that. And you simply doesn't get the point about all of this topic. Best example are classes in other MMORPGs, lets take WoWs Druid and Paladin. They can tank, heal and deal damage because they got specific class skill lines for that - and guess what, all of them are totally different although they fulfill the same role. That's exactly how ESOs class concept was meant to be but was later scrapped by Zenimax by giving Templars - as the only class - a class line for a distinct role.
I said exactly what Zenimax wanted to bring into the game (go, look for their statements), but didn't. The class only should limit you by style, not role.
Templars shouldn't be regarded as "the healers" because they have a single healing class line.
DKs shouldn't be regarded as "the tanks" because they have a single tanking class line.
Those things were meant to be non existing in ESO. A class should be regarded as a class by style, not by function or role. But right now most people have a limited view on each class because of that stubborn thoughts about classes.
Having the same options doesn't make them similar, as I said. It's about STYLE, not DISTINCT ROLES.
Edited by Seraphyel on February 28, 2015 8:40AM0 -
Sheuib✭✭✭✭As a templar , why cant i summon minions then ? Or drain hp , move speed , attack speed ?
What you asking is related with what we are all asking. Remove Class system completely. Not fix how class system works.
Just remove it completely. We dont need classes ( class skills more likely ) , that is why i ( we ) disagree with you.Yes, let's all just be the same. Wouldn't that be fun.
You both don't get the point.
ESOs approach on character progression was, that every class can handle every role - sure, every class can fulfill every role, but there are huge differences.
Zenimax destroyed their reasoning behind the ESO skill system when they gave Templars a whole tree for healing (and tanking as well) and DKs a whole tree for tanking and Nightblades and Sorcerers got nothing special in that case.
Not everybody should be the same but that's what is happening right now - most healers are the same because of Resto Staff, most tanks are the same because of Sword & Shield.
With more diversity in classes and their skill lines, every class should have special skills for the three main roles (healer, tank, DPS).
Templars right now have 6 + 5 active skills for healing through their class line and Resto Staff - next to that, they have 4 + 5 passives for healing.
In comparison, Nightblades have 2,5 + 5 active skills and 1 + 5 passive skills for healing.
DKs have 1 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.
Sorcerers have 0 + 5 active and 0 + 5 passive skills for healing.
So, in the end we have:
Templar: 11 active skills / 9 passive skills
Nightblade: 7,5 active skills / 6 passive skills
Dragon Knight: 6 active skills / 5 passive skills
Sorcerers: 5 active skills / 5 passive skills
There is a huge difference between a Templar and a Sorcerer healer and you know why? Just because Templars have a whole skill line dedicated for healing while Sorcerers haven't.
We get your point. The problem is you do not get our point. We have made choices about class based on skill trees that are different that bring different abilities to the group. That is the whole point of having different classes. And, if we didn't have those differences everyone would be the same. Sure people would try different things as they leveled and such but by the time everyone got to end game they would all be the same. All the tanks would be the same build. All the dps would be the same build. And, all the healers would be the same build. There would basically be just three builds.
Then they should replace the resto staff skill line with an unarmed skill line. That way if you want to heal you have to be a templar.
Wow, so if you can't have one extreme you intend to take it to the other extreme.0 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭Wow, so if you can't have one extreme you intend to take it to the other extreme.
No, but that's what some people indirectly say here.
"If you want to play a healer, pick the Templar, because (obvious reasons) they've got an entire class line dedicated for healing."
This kind of "advice" or thought is nevertheless wrong.0 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭You are wrong, sorry to say that. And you simply doesn't get the point about all of this topic. Best example are classes in other MMORPGs, lets take WoWs Druid and Paladin. They can tank, heal and deal damage because they got specific class skill lines for that - and guess what, all of them are totally different although they fulfill the same role. That's exactly how ESOs class concept was meant to be but was later scrapped by Zenimax by giving Templars - as the only class - a class line for a distinct role.
I said exactly what Zenimax wanted to bring into the game (go, look for their statements), but didn't. The class only should limit you by style, not role.
Templars shouldn't be regarded as "the healers" because they have a single healing class line.
DKs shouldn't be regarded as "the tanks" because they have a single tanking class line.
Those things were meant to be non existing in ESO. A class should be regarded as a class by style, not by function or role. But right now most people have a limited view on each class because of that stubborn thoughts about classes.
Having the same options doesn't make them similar, as I said. It's about STYLE, not DISTINCT ROLES.
Neither of us are wrong, we have different opinions. I get the point, it's a pretty straight forward topic, bring the restoring light skill line to all classes so templars aren't the optimal healers anymore.
Your comment was every class should have the same options to fulfill different roles, I disagreed. I don't think that would benefit elder scrolls online, it might be great in other games, but I don't want it in this one. I don't really care what ZOS originally wanted, or what other games do, I don't play them and I've learned to ignore what ZOS says and look more at the results.
I think removing class specific skills would make classes pointless. Which in turn would make all the characters essentially the same. I think that would be horrible for this game.
You might call me wrong, but that's just like, your opinion...man.[DC/NA]1
