Alchemy farmers, please don't skip nodes. This is common sense...

Hawk269 · February 2015

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Trust me there is worse things like harvesting a node and find only the worms in it... This is sort of a problem since the node will noy respawn till someone take those worms.....

Yeah, I tend to take everything all the time. I had it happen to me where I was getting 3 different plants and all they had were worms because whoever came before only took the plant and left the worms.

firstdecan · February 2015

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2015

I was just going to start a thread on this.

if your not farming and just casual. DO NOT LEAVE insects/bait behind. it ruins the spawn point.

IF your farming, as he said, taking everything actually IMPROVES your chances of getting what you need.
if you read this thread and ignore it, you are officially a node troll.

zenimax. please add forced auto loot to the node system so nobody can troll nodes and leave bait behind.
please add a node timer, when it has not been harvested in x hours have it decay and reset node.
this will reduce the effect of selfish or ignorant players on the rest of the community.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

if you have ever actually farmed you would realize its much better.

if you go to an area with 30 nodes looking for bugloss and two of them are, then your get two and they both probably spawn as something else. you take everything and all 30 have a chance to be bugloss when you do your second round and then every time again. It is much much much better simple as that.
your not playing for the table your playing for your own harvest

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling and Baiting.

Ourorboros · February 2015

Divinius wrote: »

It is totally unreasonable to expect everyone playing a game to play with the best interests of other players in mind. It's simply not going to happen.

This is a problem that can only be solved by ZOS, by having them change all crafting nodes to automatically despawn/respawn by themselves every so often, even if they have not been touched.

That's the only way to clear out the fields full of wormwood, nodes that only contain crawlers, and aspect runes that are all Tas. Expecting everyone to harvest stuff they don't want "because it's the considerate thing to do" is completely unrealistic, unfortunately.

Well put, Divinius.
So here we are again, trying to convince everyone that cherry-picking is selfish. And I agree there is a selfish aspect to it. Ironically, isn't the primary reason to curb cherry-picking is to make more desired resources available to farmers. That also is selfish.

I object more to attempts to control how others play the game, regardless of how it is packaged, than I do to the act of cherry-picking. It rubs the rebel in me the wrong way. I hate to see smokers flip butts out car windows, as though the world is their ashtray, but there is jack I can do about it. So I make peace with the reality that things are out of my control. BTW, cherry-pickers pay the same sub, and are free to do as they want within TOC. So the only thing wrong with cherry-picking is that it against odds with how OP's view. If we can solve this one, we can 'fix' the world. No doubt this issue will escalate even further after March 17.

firstdecan · February 2015

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

if you have ever actually farmed you would realize its much better. if you used your brain at least.

if you go to an area with 30 nodes looking for bugloss and two of them are, then your get two and they both probably spawn as something else. you take everything and all 30 have a chance to be bugloss when you do your second round and then every time again. It is much much much better simple as that.
your not playing for the table your playing for your own harvest

If I go to the area you described, I can grab the two bugloss I want and then go farm somewhere else while someone like you clears the rest of those nodes. You aren't the one compensating me for the opportunity costs of failing to farm a more productive area, you're simply rationalizing your own frustration and venting in the forums. If you had a rational argument, you wouldn't have had to resort abusive and insulting language.

SFBryan18 · February 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Ourorboros wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

It is totally unreasonable to expect everyone playing a game to play with the best interests of other players in mind. It's simply not going to happen.

This is a problem that can only be solved by ZOS, by having them change all crafting nodes to automatically despawn/respawn by themselves every so often, even if they have not been touched.

That's the only way to clear out the fields full of wormwood, nodes that only contain crawlers, and aspect runes that are all Tas. Expecting everyone to harvest stuff they don't want "because it's the considerate thing to do" is completely unrealistic, unfortunately.

Well put, Divinius.
So here we are again, trying to convince everyone that cherry-picking is selfish. And I agree there is a selfish aspect to it. Ironically, isn't the primary reason to curb cherry-picking is to make more desired resources available to farmers. That also is selfish.

I object more to attempts to control how others play the game, regardless of how it is packaged, than I do to the act of cherry-picking. It rubs the rebel in me the wrong way. I hate to see smokers flip butts out car windows, as though the world is their ashtray, but there is jack I can do about it. So I make peace with the reality that things are out of my control. BTW, cherry-pickers pay the same sub, and are free to do as they want within TOC. So the only thing wrong with cherry-picking is that it against odds with how OP's view. If we can solve this one, we can 'fix' the world. No doubt this issue will escalate even further after March 17.

Cherry picking is inefficient farming. By your logic, no one should voice their opinion on how to make the world better and we should all just assume nothing will change. Flicking cigarette butts out the window is illegal in places where people decided to say something. Not that this issue could ever be made a law, but if people are going to farm inefficiently, I'm going to tell them that they are wasting time. In this scenario, their choice to waste their own time also wastes the rest of ours as well. Paying for the game has nothing to do with it. Everyone is free to make decisions that are just plain bad, but that same freedom gives me the right to tell them it is a bad choice to make.

Xsorus · February 2015

Could do what I do, do alchemy daily on all 8 toons every day

mavrwb17_ESO · February 2015

AshySamurai wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

This could be EASILY solved be ZoS adding a little coding that once the Plant itself is harvested the node despawns in ~15 seconds, regardless of whether the Player took the Crawlers, Worms, etc as well.

Or make node unharvestable untill you harvest worms.

why are you trying to force junk on people?

mavrwb17_ESO · February 2015

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It's not just about being considerate, it's beneficial to the individual who does it because when they come back, the node will have something different. Leaving nodes means decreasing the total spawn points. This is not hard to understand. This thread is specifically directed at farmers, not casual passer by's. Decreasing the total number of spawn points will waste more time riding around looking for stuff than the time wasted farming the junk. It's much more efficient to clear everything in an assembly line fashion because if done correctly, you collect everything much faster. And by choosing not to do it, the individual is slowing down everyone including themselves.

Why would a farmer do it when someone else will do it for them

Frawr · February 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

It is totally unreasonable to expect everyone playing a game to play with the best interests of other players in mind. It's simply not going to happen.

This is a problem that can only be solved by ZOS, by having them change all crafting nodes to automatically despawn/respawn by themselves every so often, even if they have not been touched.

That's the only way to clear out the fields full of wormwood, nodes that only contain crawlers, and aspect runes that are all Tas. Expecting everyone to harvest stuff they don't want "because it's the considerate thing to do" is completely unrealistic, unfortunately.

Well put, Divinius.
So here we are again, trying to convince everyone that cherry-picking is selfish. And I agree there is a selfish aspect to it. Ironically, isn't the primary reason to curb cherry-picking is to make more desired resources available to farmers. That also is selfish.

I object more to attempts to control how others play the game, regardless of how it is packaged, than I do to the act of cherry-picking. It rubs the rebel in me the wrong way. I hate to see smokers flip butts out car windows, as though the world is their ashtray, but there is jack I can do about it. So I make peace with the reality that things are out of my control. BTW, cherry-pickers pay the same sub, and are free to do as they want within TOC. So the only thing wrong with cherry-picking is that it against odds with how OP's view. If we can solve this one, we can 'fix' the world. No doubt this issue will escalate even further after March 17.

While cherry-picking might be a bit selfish, the OP made a rather more important point. Those people wreck the spawn for themselves as well as for everyone else because there is nothing to cherry-pick 30 mins later ; because they force everyone to cherry-pick and only wormwood etc remains. I don't believe that the developers should need to implement code to counter-balance player shortsightedness.

The best solution would be for us to be allowed to pvp over them!

Tankqull · February 2015

istateres wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

the main issue i have are people not taking worms and other fishing baites from nodes.
had a run yesterday where every coldharbor node was only containing worms ...

Right, every node. Given the high level of mushrrom nodes in Coldharbor (which NEVER contain worms), I find that hard to believe.

Is someone aware of an Addon that allows this? (Taking only the flower and not the worms or crawlers or plump worms) I don't believe any players are wasting time NOT using auto loot, so unless there is a bot or an Addon; this just isn't a big problem.

where in the city of coldharbour are mushrooms O_o
haven´t found one this far

Ourorboros · February 2015

Frawr wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

It is totally unreasonable to expect everyone playing a game to play with the best interests of other players in mind. It's simply not going to happen.

This is a problem that can only be solved by ZOS, by having them change all crafting nodes to automatically despawn/respawn by themselves every so often, even if they have not been touched.

That's the only way to clear out the fields full of wormwood, nodes that only contain crawlers, and aspect runes that are all Tas. Expecting everyone to harvest stuff they don't want "because it's the considerate thing to do" is completely unrealistic, unfortunately.

Well put, Divinius.
So here we are again, trying to convince everyone that cherry-picking is selfish. And I agree there is a selfish aspect to it. Ironically, isn't the primary reason to curb cherry-picking is to make more desired resources available to farmers. That also is selfish.

I object more to attempts to control how others play the game, regardless of how it is packaged, than I do to the act of cherry-picking. It rubs the rebel in me the wrong way. I hate to see smokers flip butts out car windows, as though the world is their ashtray, but there is jack I can do about it. So I make peace with the reality that things are out of my control. BTW, cherry-pickers pay the same sub, and are free to do as they want within TOC. So the only thing wrong with cherry-picking is that it against odds with how OP's view. If we can solve this one, we can 'fix' the world. No doubt this issue will escalate even further after March 17.

While cherry-picking is a bit selfish, the OP made a rather more important point. Those people wreck the spawn for themselves as well as for everyone else because there is nothing to cherry-pick 30 mins later ; because they force everyone to cherry-pick and only wormwood etc remains. I don't believe that the developers should need to implement code to counter-balance player shortsightedness.

I agree with everything, except your last point. As others have pointed out, a little code could make this whole issue a non-issue. There have been many threads, sometimes quite heated, about the issue. Which means the developers are aware of the issue, or should be. I have to wonder at the rationale for not implementing any number of possible fixes. It's almost like they enjoy seeing how the issue plays out. BTW, I don't farm plants, but I pretty much pick everything I run into, worms included. I just don't like the idea of social pressure being brought to bear to force behavioral conformance, especially when it is self-interest masquerading as the greater good.

AshySamurai · February 2015

mavrwb17_ESO wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

This could be EASILY solved be ZoS adding a little coding that once the Plant itself is harvested the node despawns in ~15 seconds, regardless of whether the Player took the Crawlers, Worms, etc as well.

Or make node unharvestable untill you harvest worms.

why are you trying to force junk on people?

Because other people force junk on everyone else.

IMO this issue could be solved by respawn node after X time regardless node has been harvested or not.

jacktors11 · February 2015

I hate to say it, but the majority of players have no idea about the coding involved in harvesting nodes. Most people, like me, just grab nodes as they see them. I think you may be a bit paranoid. Or maybe you ran into a player who wanted to loot just what he or she needs. I really don't think that anyone is trying to ruin your game play.

Digiman · February 2015

@SFBryan18 This has nothing to do with players, but the developers who coded this game. Even now worms don't sell for anything and take up back space I find that mixing them in the node was a poor design choice.

Also plants do change but its long timer, if your in a smaller zone or just efficient farming you will realize that the only person who improve that is you.

Most only pick up what they find to be more useful without mastered alchemy.

SFBryan18 · February 2015

jacktors11 wrote: »

I hate to say it, but the majority of players have no idea about the coding involved in harvesting nodes. Most people, like me, just grab nodes as they see them. I think you may be a bit paranoid. Or maybe you ran into a player who wanted to loot just what he or she needs. I really don't think that anyone is trying to ruin your game play.

I would not have made this thread based on a hunch. I've witnessed multiple players skipping nodes on purpose and the same players doing it for hours, and actually over many different nights. Please don't comment on something you know nothing about.

Exstazik · February 2015

1)Farm alone-pick up all nodes
2)Farm with others-pick up only the "good " one.most people rave about this and you are left alone.

SFBryan18 · February 2015

Exstazik wrote: »

1)Farm alone-pick up all nodes
2)Farm with others-pick up only the "good " one.most people rave about this and you are left alone.

Until you run into someone just like you. Then you hit a stalemate of junk everywhere.

firstdecan · February 2015

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

SFBryan18 · February 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

You fail to understand that by skipping nodes, you are decreasing your own chances as much as any others. And if we all play that game, your luck runs out. You willingly make the game slower for everyone? Why? Those other players are suppose to be in your faction, but you refuse to work with them to accomplish better efficentcy? Seems like a pretty poor team player in an MMO.

firstdecan · February 2015

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

You fail to understand that by skipping nodes, you are decreasing your own chances as much as any others. And if we all play that game, your luck runs out.

No, by skipping nodes I'm decreasing your chances, which doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not playing for the table. If we all play that way there will be fewer people farming, less competition for the items I want, and then I might consider grabbing other nodes. But I'm not about to start clearing nodes I don't want just so someone else can grab the nodes I do want.

Given the lack of comprehension you've displayed about behavior in a competitive environment, you should refrain from making assumptions about what other people do and don't understand. If you stop farming, I'll clear all the nodes for my benefit. While you are farming, we are competing for the choice items, and that is where the focus of my attention will be.

You can be as mad as you want about that, but it's the way ZOS designed the system. Don't hate the player....

Cody · February 2015

Maybe if ZOS made poisons usable people would find a reason to use some of those plants:/

im not wasting my inventory and bank space with plants I literally cannot use.

SFBryan18 · February 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

You fail to understand that by skipping nodes, you are decreasing your own chances as much as any others. And if we all play that game, your luck runs out.

No, by skipping nodes I'm decreasing your chances, which doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not playing for the table. If we all play that way there will be fewer people farming, less competition for the items I want, and then I might consider grabbing other nodes. But I'm not about to start clearing nodes I don't want just so someone else can grab the nodes I do want.

Given the lack of comprehension you've displayed about behavior in a competitive environment, you should refrain from making assumptions about what other people do and don't understand. If you stop farming, I'll clear all the nodes for my benefit. While you are farming, we are competing for the choice items, and that is where the focus of my attention will be.

You can be as mad as you want about that, but it's the way ZOS designed the system. Don't hate the player....

You are decreasing your own chances as well if you plan on returning to the area. If you do not return to the area, you are not farming and this thread has nothing to do with you.

Cody wrote: »

Maybe if ZOS made poisons usable people would find a reason to use some of those plants:/

im not wasting my inventory and bank space with plants I literally cannot use.

If you can't sell them, you could just destroy them. I sell them all, but my trade guild is in Rawl'kha. The point is that if you don't take them, you slow down the rate of collecting better stuff. If you are returning to the same spots like a farmer, you hurt your own chances as much as anyone.

firstdecan · February 2015

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

You fail to understand that by skipping nodes, you are decreasing your own chances as much as any others. And if we all play that game, your luck runs out.

No, by skipping nodes I'm decreasing your chances, which doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not playing for the table. If we all play that way there will be fewer people farming, less competition for the items I want, and then I might consider grabbing other nodes. But I'm not about to start clearing nodes I don't want just so someone else can grab the nodes I do want.

Given the lack of comprehension you've displayed about behavior in a competitive environment, you should refrain from making assumptions about what other people do and don't understand. If you stop farming, I'll clear all the nodes for my benefit. While you are farming, we are competing for the choice items, and that is where the focus of my attention will be.

You can be as mad as you want about that, but it's the way ZOS designed the system. Don't hate the player....

You are decreasing your own chances as well if you plan on returning to the area. If you do not return to the area, you are not farming and this thread has nothing to do with you.

Actually no, I'm not decreasing my chances in the same area. If no one else is there, then it makes sense to farm everything, because there is no competition for the items I want. If someone else is there, it only makes sense to grab the items I want before someone else does. If I grab everything while someone else is there, I'm only increasing his chances of finding "the good stuff" because all my time is being wasted on things I don't want. He can grab the things I don't want, and I can focus my attention on what I do want.

Again, I'm not playing for the table. It's also not for you to decide where or how I play, and where or how I may comment. You're limiting your rationalization to respawn rates of renewable resources, whereas my arguments lie on the benefits of competitive behavior. I completely understand your arguments, and if this was a single player game they would be completely valid. But this is not a single player game, and these forums are open for reasonable and constructive discussion. If you are intolerant of other people's opinions, then perhaps a discussion forum is not the best place to voice your opinions.

Your argument is a thinly veiled rationalization for why other players should change their behavior in order to improve your game experience. That's perfectly fine, there is an element of magnanimousness to your argument. The counter argument is that there is no incentive to engage in that behavior because in a competitive environment, magnanimousness will leave you with less reward for your efforts. You keep failing to see the reason in that because you've already decided your rationalizations are the only ones that are correct, despite the fact that other players are obviously engaging in the more productive competitive behavior.

I do not expect to be able to change your mind, you've decided that you're right and that's the way it's going to be. What I find odd is courteousness you expect from other players in the game is completely absent from your forum rant. This again leads back to how your argument is simply a rationalization to improve your game experience, not good advice for how players should behave to maximize benefit to themselves in a competitive environment.

SFBryan18 · February 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

You fail to understand that by skipping nodes, you are decreasing your own chances as much as any others. And if we all play that game, your luck runs out.

No, by skipping nodes I'm decreasing your chances, which doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not playing for the table. If we all play that way there will be fewer people farming, less competition for the items I want, and then I might consider grabbing other nodes. But I'm not about to start clearing nodes I don't want just so someone else can grab the nodes I do want.

Given the lack of comprehension you've displayed about behavior in a competitive environment, you should refrain from making assumptions about what other people do and don't understand. If you stop farming, I'll clear all the nodes for my benefit. While you are farming, we are competing for the choice items, and that is where the focus of my attention will be.

You can be as mad as you want about that, but it's the way ZOS designed the system. Don't hate the player....

You are decreasing your own chances as well if you plan on returning to the area. If you do not return to the area, you are not farming and this thread has nothing to do with you.

Actually no, I'm not decreasing my chances in the same area. If no one else is there, then it makes sense to farm everything, because there is no competition for the items I want. If someone else is there, it only makes sense to grab the items I want before someone else does. If I grab everything while someone else is there, I'm only increasing his chances of finding "the good stuff" because all my time is being wasted on things I don't want. He can grab the things I don't want, and I can focus my attention on what I do want.

Again, I'm not playing for the table. It's also not for you to decide where or how I play, and where or how I may comment. You're limiting your rationalization to respawn rates of renewable resources, whereas my arguments lie on the benefits of competitive behavior. I completely understand your arguments, and if this was a single player game they would be completely valid. But this is not a single player game, and these forums are open for reasonable and constructive discussion. If you are intolerant of other people's opinions, then perhaps a discussion forum is not the best place to voice your opinions.

Your argument is a thinly veiled rationalization for why other players should change their behavior in order to improve your game experience. That's perfectly fine, there is an element of magnanimousness to your argument. The counter argument is that there is no incentive to engage in that behavior because in a competitive environment, magnanimousness will leave you with less reward for your efforts. You keep failing to see the reason in that because you've already decided your rationalizations are the only ones that are correct, despite the fact that other players are obviously engaging in the more productive competitive behavior.

I do not expect to be able to change your mind, you've decided that you're right and that's the way it's going to be. What I find odd is courteousness you expect from other players in the game is completely absent from your forum rant. This again leads back to how your argument is simply a rationalization to improve your game experience, not good advice for how players should behave to maximize benefit to themselves in a competitive environment.

As I said before, if everyone played like you, it would be a stalemate of junk. Is that what you want? Because that is when you will get less reward for your efforts due to a failure to work as a team player.

IrishGirlGamer · February 2015

firstdecan · February 2015

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

You fail to understand that by skipping nodes, you are decreasing your own chances as much as any others. And if we all play that game, your luck runs out.

No, by skipping nodes I'm decreasing your chances, which doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not playing for the table. If we all play that way there will be fewer people farming, less competition for the items I want, and then I might consider grabbing other nodes. But I'm not about to start clearing nodes I don't want just so someone else can grab the nodes I do want.

Given the lack of comprehension you've displayed about behavior in a competitive environment, you should refrain from making assumptions about what other people do and don't understand. If you stop farming, I'll clear all the nodes for my benefit. While you are farming, we are competing for the choice items, and that is where the focus of my attention will be.

You can be as mad as you want about that, but it's the way ZOS designed the system. Don't hate the player....

You are decreasing your own chances as well if you plan on returning to the area. If you do not return to the area, you are not farming and this thread has nothing to do with you.

Actually no, I'm not decreasing my chances in the same area. If no one else is there, then it makes sense to farm everything, because there is no competition for the items I want. If someone else is there, it only makes sense to grab the items I want before someone else does. If I grab everything while someone else is there, I'm only increasing his chances of finding "the good stuff" because all my time is being wasted on things I don't want. He can grab the things I don't want, and I can focus my attention on what I do want.

Again, I'm not playing for the table. It's also not for you to decide where or how I play, and where or how I may comment. You're limiting your rationalization to respawn rates of renewable resources, whereas my arguments lie on the benefits of competitive behavior. I completely understand your arguments, and if this was a single player game they would be completely valid. But this is not a single player game, and these forums are open for reasonable and constructive discussion. If you are intolerant of other people's opinions, then perhaps a discussion forum is not the best place to voice your opinions.

Your argument is a thinly veiled rationalization for why other players should change their behavior in order to improve your game experience. That's perfectly fine, there is an element of magnanimousness to your argument. The counter argument is that there is no incentive to engage in that behavior because in a competitive environment, magnanimousness will leave you with less reward for your efforts. You keep failing to see the reason in that because you've already decided your rationalizations are the only ones that are correct, despite the fact that other players are obviously engaging in the more productive competitive behavior.

I do not expect to be able to change your mind, you've decided that you're right and that's the way it's going to be. What I find odd is courteousness you expect from other players in the game is completely absent from your forum rant. This again leads back to how your argument is simply a rationalization to improve your game experience, not good advice for how players should behave to maximize benefit to themselves in a competitive environment.

As I said before, if everyone played like you, it would be a stalemate of junk. Is that what you want? Because that is when you will get less reward for your efforts due to a failure to work as a team player.

I'm fine with that. It will discourage people from farming, and leave less competition for what I want. Again, I'm not playing for the table. I don't want you farming, I don't want the competition for resources that I want. While you're farming, you can spend the time clearing the nodes, and I will grab the ones I want.

This is the system that ZOS designed, and this is how competition works in the real world. It's nothing personal, and if ZoS didn't want people fighting over virtual flowers in a virtual field, they should design a system with less scarcity. Or, they could redesign the effects of the ingredients so more than one or two combinations are actually useful, which would encourage people to pick more flowers, clear the nodes and increase the respawn rate. Regardless of any of that, you can't change the fact that competitive behavior will be the optimal behavior in a competitive environment. We are not a team. Unless you're sharing your bugloss harvest with me from the nodes that I spent the time to clear for you, I have no incentive to clear those nodes for you.

Soulshine · February 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

You fail to understand that by skipping nodes, you are decreasing your own chances as much as any others. And if we all play that game, your luck runs out.

No, by skipping nodes I'm decreasing your chances, which doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not playing for the table. If we all play that way there will be fewer people farming, less competition for the items I want, and then I might consider grabbing other nodes. But I'm not about to start clearing nodes I don't want just so someone else can grab the nodes I do want.

Given the lack of comprehension you've displayed about behavior in a competitive environment, you should refrain from making assumptions about what other people do and don't understand. If you stop farming, I'll clear all the nodes for my benefit. While you are farming, we are competing for the choice items, and that is where the focus of my attention will be.

You can be as mad as you want about that, but it's the way ZOS designed the system. Don't hate the player....

You are decreasing your own chances as well if you plan on returning to the area. If you do not return to the area, you are not farming and this thread has nothing to do with you.

Actually no, I'm not decreasing my chances in the same area. If no one else is there, then it makes sense to farm everything, because there is no competition for the items I want. If someone else is there, it only makes sense to grab the items I want before someone else does. If I grab everything while someone else is there, I'm only increasing his chances of finding "the good stuff" because all my time is being wasted on things I don't want. He can grab the things I don't want, and I can focus my attention on what I do want.

Again, I'm not playing for the table. It's also not for you to decide where or how I play, and where or how I may comment. You're limiting your rationalization to respawn rates of renewable resources, whereas my arguments lie on the benefits of competitive behavior. I completely understand your arguments, and if this was a single player game they would be completely valid. But this is not a single player game, and these forums are open for reasonable and constructive discussion. If you are intolerant of other people's opinions, then perhaps a discussion forum is not the best place to voice your opinions.

Your argument is a thinly veiled rationalization for why other players should change their behavior in order to improve your game experience. That's perfectly fine, there is an element of magnanimousness to your argument. The counter argument is that there is no incentive to engage in that behavior because in a competitive environment, magnanimousness will leave you with less reward for your efforts. You keep failing to see the reason in that because you've already decided your rationalizations are the only ones that are correct, despite the fact that other players are obviously engaging in the more productive competitive behavior.

I do not expect to be able to change your mind, you've decided that you're right and that's the way it's going to be. What I find odd is courteousness you expect from other players in the game is completely absent from your forum rant. This again leads back to how your argument is simply a rationalization to improve your game experience, not good advice for how players should behave to maximize benefit to themselves in a competitive environment.

As I said before, if everyone played like you, it would be a stalemate of junk. Is that what you want? Because that is when you will get less reward for your efforts due to a failure to work as a team player.

I'm fine with that. It will discourage people from farming, and leave less competition for what I want. Again, I'm not playing for the table. I don't want you farming, I don't want the competition for resources that I want. While you're farming, you can spend the time clearing the nodes, and I will grab the ones I want.

This is the system that ZOS designed, and this is how competition works in the real world. It's nothing personal, and if ZoS didn't want people fighting over virtual flowers in a virtual field, they should design a system with less scarcity. Or, they could redesign the effects of the ingredients so more than one or two combinations are actually useful, which would encourage people to pick more flowers, clear the nodes and increase the respawn rate. Regardless of any of that, you can't change the fact that competitive behavior will be the optimal behavior in a competitive environment. We are not a team. Unless you're sharing your bugloss harvest with me from the nodes that I spent the time to clear for you, I have no incentive to clear those nodes for you.

Uh huh.... and while you guys are "competing" in one area, I am meanwhile off all over the map collecting what I need buy the hundreds full because I did not confine myself to the same two by four zone that is affected by circuit spinning collectors competing with each other 8D

Good grief.

SFBryan18 · February 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This reminds me of going to the blackjack tables in Vegas, and one of the other payers getting upset with me because I hit when I shouldn't have, took the card he wanted and won my hand. He said I was being dumb and wasn't playing for the table. I then proceeded to ask him if the table would have shared in my loss if I played for the table, and he stopped talking to me (thankfully).

So, why would I harvest plants I don't want if it means someone else will harvest the ones I do want?

It's nothing like blackjack. I already explained why clearing all of the nodes gives more spawn points for new plants so your question is redundant. If you are not going back to the nodes, you are not farming and this thread has little to do with you.

Just because you don't understand the concept doesn't mean there's no similarity, and just because you've taken the time to type something doesn't mean you've explained anything. If I'm farming, I'm going to spend my time grabbing the items I want. You can spend your time grabbing the items I don't want, thus increasing the chances of me finding the things I want. I don't need to grab everything just to increase your chances of finding something, especially when it comes at the expense of me finding something. If no one else is clearing the items, then I'll consider farming the items I don't want, but as long as there is competition for the items I want, that will be my focus.

I'm not playing for the table, I'm playing for my benefit. If you want me to play for your benefit, you need to explain to me where it is in my interest to do so, because right now you just come off as a upset that not everyone in an MMO agrees with you.

You fail to understand that by skipping nodes, you are decreasing your own chances as much as any others. And if we all play that game, your luck runs out.

No, by skipping nodes I'm decreasing your chances, which doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not playing for the table. If we all play that way there will be fewer people farming, less competition for the items I want, and then I might consider grabbing other nodes. But I'm not about to start clearing nodes I don't want just so someone else can grab the nodes I do want.

Given the lack of comprehension you've displayed about behavior in a competitive environment, you should refrain from making assumptions about what other people do and don't understand. If you stop farming, I'll clear all the nodes for my benefit. While you are farming, we are competing for the choice items, and that is where the focus of my attention will be.

You can be as mad as you want about that, but it's the way ZOS designed the system. Don't hate the player....

You are decreasing your own chances as well if you plan on returning to the area. If you do not return to the area, you are not farming and this thread has nothing to do with you.

Actually no, I'm not decreasing my chances in the same area. If no one else is there, then it makes sense to farm everything, because there is no competition for the items I want. If someone else is there, it only makes sense to grab the items I want before someone else does. If I grab everything while someone else is there, I'm only increasing his chances of finding "the good stuff" because all my time is being wasted on things I don't want. He can grab the things I don't want, and I can focus my attention on what I do want.

Again, I'm not playing for the table. It's also not for you to decide where or how I play, and where or how I may comment. You're limiting your rationalization to respawn rates of renewable resources, whereas my arguments lie on the benefits of competitive behavior. I completely understand your arguments, and if this was a single player game they would be completely valid. But this is not a single player game, and these forums are open for reasonable and constructive discussion. If you are intolerant of other people's opinions, then perhaps a discussion forum is not the best place to voice your opinions.

Your argument is a thinly veiled rationalization for why other players should change their behavior in order to improve your game experience. That's perfectly fine, there is an element of magnanimousness to your argument. The counter argument is that there is no incentive to engage in that behavior because in a competitive environment, magnanimousness will leave you with less reward for your efforts. You keep failing to see the reason in that because you've already decided your rationalizations are the only ones that are correct, despite the fact that other players are obviously engaging in the more productive competitive behavior.

I do not expect to be able to change your mind, you've decided that you're right and that's the way it's going to be. What I find odd is courteousness you expect from other players in the game is completely absent from your forum rant. This again leads back to how your argument is simply a rationalization to improve your game experience, not good advice for how players should behave to maximize benefit to themselves in a competitive environment.

As I said before, if everyone played like you, it would be a stalemate of junk. Is that what you want? Because that is when you will get less reward for your efforts due to a failure to work as a team player.

I'm fine with that. It will discourage people from farming, and leave less competition for what I want. Again, I'm not playing for the table. I don't want you farming, I don't want the competition for resources that I want. While you're farming, you can spend the time clearing the nodes, and I will grab the ones I want.

This is the system that ZOS designed, and this is how competition works in the real world. It's nothing personal, and if ZoS didn't want people fighting over virtual flowers in a virtual field, they should design a system with less scarcity. Or, they could redesign the effects of the ingredients so more than one or two combinations are actually useful, which would encourage people to pick more flowers, clear the nodes and increase the respawn rate. Regardless of any of that, you can't change the fact that competitive behavior will be the optimal behavior in a competitive environment. We are not a team. Unless you're sharing your bugloss harvest with me from the nodes that I spent the time to clear for you, I have no incentive to clear those nodes for you.

Don't assume anyone will back down and stop farming. Your attitude only slows efficiency. It's a shortsighted selfish point of view where you feel the need to compete with members of your own faction instead of working with them. Your desire to win at something will cause you to waste hours of time just to spite other players for attempting to play the same game as you. If you are proud of being that guy that ruins it for everyone else, then so be it. I hope I never run into you, because I'll collect everything of worth until there's nothing but blessed thistle, and it will be your fault, not mine.

And as the post above suggests, you'll likely just be competing against other people like you, while off in another zone, players who work efficiently, will be making much more than you. You're only hurting yourself in the long run, so congrats. You won nothing.