At VR4 my leveling is about to hit a brick wall

Kragorn · February 2015

Okay, this is not a 'whine', I seriously want to know how I'm expected to progress further in the game as it exists today.

How the hell am I going to level beyond VR5?

I'm in Eastmarch on my first post-VR3 character and finished all the Cadwell's quests for the zone and have only 3 or 4 quest hubs left .. I am less than 400k into VR4, having entered here at 180k short of VR4.

I've done all the quests in the earlier zones and will finish this one with likely less than 500k/1m. By then I'll have cleared all delves and everything else I can do solo.

There are precious few players doing this content so I rarely get to do a Dolmen and never see groups of the group dungeons in the zones. Not that would help much as ZOS have nerfed the XP from such content so I'm not likely to make up my missing 500k from those any time soon.

I figure I'll likely be able to complete The Rift at VR4 (I doubt I'll even reach VR5 by the time I've cleared the zone) but that means I'll enter the VR6 zone at VR4 .. I don't see much progress being possible shortly after that.

Do ZOS really expect me to grind 500k per zone killing mobs, because there's little else to do?

The XP per level needs halving now that the initial rush of players has ended and the sources of XP have been nerfed to the ground. VRs are going to be around for likely at least another 6 months, without the XP per rank being seriously cut I don't see how anyone will reach VR10 these days.

Please don't say PVP, I don't PVP, I hate PVP and don't see why I should be expected to do something I loathe in order to progress .. and equally I know some people only want to level by PVP and really hate having to do PVE content, especially group stuff, to progress.

starkerealm · February 2015

Just advance to The Rift. You should get the XP you need there. I remember hitting Reaper's March at Vet 9 and wondering how the hell I was going to hit Vet 10 in Malabal Tor... but, it happened in Reaper's March.

Arwen_7 · February 2015

I entered the V6 zone when I was V3. I normally play with at least one other so we can complete most things on our own. We tend to get a shout out in chat when we are doing a dolem or a group delve so anyone else can come along. We have done this pretty much since we started and since reaching Vets it is very rare is no one else turns up.

If you ask, people generally appear to help. You are not alone in needing to complete areas.

As for being a low vet level with not many quests left... Vet levels are going anyways, so what's the problem?

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · February 2015

Vet levels are not going away any time soon, so the problem is real.

You will not be a lot stronger for obtaining one VR rank or two, and you will not be a lot weaker for missing one or two VR ranks. The change to your stats is almost nothing, and the gear of the next tier is not a whole lot better. Therefore, it's not a big deal if you go into a veteran zone slightly underleveled. I had no trouble doing most of the solo content for my VR10 zone at VR6-7. You won't be able to use some of the drops, but apart from that you should be OK. PvE drops mostly end up at vendors or deconstruction anyway.

The problem of reaching VR10 and VR14 is another matter. I did quite a few hours of Dwemer dungeon farming for motifs when they were new (hence my visit to the VR10 area as VR6), and made lots of gold and a couple of VR ranks from that. I haven't been to Craglorn yet except to have my face eaten by wasps for the reward of one crafting writ, and I am halfway between VR13 and VR14, and I didn't feel as if I had to grind to level. Farm, yes, some. Grind, no, never.

I did all world bosses and all dolmens, though, some solo and some with help from random people in zone chat. I also had a good guild full of people around my level who were willing to team up for the group and public dungeons. While that shouldn't make a huge difference to XP, it does make the game more fun.

Garwulf · February 2015

Arwen_7 wrote: »

I entered the V6 zone when I was V3. I normally play with at least one other so we can complete most things on our own. We tend to get a shout out in chat when we are doing a dolem or a group delve so anyone else can come along. We have done this pretty much since we started and since reaching Vets it is very rare is no one else turns up.

If you ask, people generally appear to help. You are not alone in needing to complete areas.

As for being a low vet level with not many quests left... Vet levels are going anyways, so what's the problem?

If ZOS can actually remove Vet Levels with out screwing it up or alienating a lot of people or both I will be surprised.

Personally I cannot see the point in going through the hassle of actually trying to remove Vet levels, readjusting potions, food, enchants, equipment and crafting materials. Whilst the champion system was an add on, the VR system is buried deep within the game.

so what is wrong with the VR system... as far as I can tel it is that I take so long to get to VR14. Currently 1 million points per level (originally much, much worse)

Possible Solutions;
a) reduce the VR points significantly so that getting to VR14 is relatively easily or
b) replace VR1to 14 with levels 51 to 63 with the same level progression as from 0 to 50.
Both would require a modification of Monster levels in Cadwell's silver and gold but surely easier to do successfully than a total revamp of the game levelling system. no equipment, crafting etc would need ot change.

Whilst it will not fix the major problem with this game, the fact that the end game came at level 50, it would surely fix the complaints about VR being a grind.

Personally the champion system at 400,000 experience per champion point is an even worse grind than VR.

jluceyub17_ESO · February 2015

You should try to run both undaunted pledges everyday. They give decent XP on their own plus you can clean up any dungeons you may have missed while leveling.

Shadesofkin · February 2015

I completely agree, there really does need to be an increase in the experience provided by a lot of the quests, especially the main line in each zone.

Ommamar · February 2015

Interesting my VR4 is just entering the 3rd AD zone for Caldwell's Silver. I occasionally AvA when I have time I do the unduanted pledges, I also have shard hunted and quested a little in Cyrodill. Not sure how you are finishing the quest line at such a low level.

technohic · February 2015

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I completely agree, there really does need to be an increase in the experience provided by a lot of the quests, especially the main line in each zone.

Leveling through VR, I would agree that it needs to be doubled. Looking at the new champion system with a lot of people who already completed the quests, then that gets a bit sticky as those quests really would be maybe better than grinding or a PVP or most everything else in game. They would have to up that stuff as well.

Nestor · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

I'm in Eastmarch on my first post-VR3 character and finished all the Cadwell's quests for the zone and have only 3 or 4 quest hubs left .. I am less than 400k into VR4, having entered here at 180k short of VR4.

I have a VR5 sorcerer that needs some exercise. We can go clear some Dolmens tonight, and get some groups together for the group dungeons.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

If you're covering all content in a zone ~ all content, and not avoiding the mobs in the process, I fail to see how you're terribly behind in progression?

If you have truly cleared everything (Group Dungeons, Delves, Dolmens, Guild quests), you're going to have to find repeatable content you enjoy and repeat it.

Whether that's Cyrodiil, Dungeons, Dailies...opportunity is there. It does plateau every now and then though.

firstdecan · February 2015

The lack of other people is probably a temporary thing. Many people are waiting until the champion system drops to do Caldwell's silver / gold quests so they can earn the CPs. I won't say the VR zones were ever highly populated, but it usually wasn't too difficult to find people to do dungeons.

Regardless of that, as it stands you basically have to kill everything that moves and perform every quest if you want to keep level with the Caldwell's silver and gold zones. It gets very tedious (I've competed gold with two toons). You also have to make sure to do the starter islands, there's half a VR level in doing those.

The other option is to supplement your progress with some craglorn grinding. It's very boring to do it for extended periods of time, but an hour or so here and there as a supplement to regular game play isn't too bad.

As I mentioned, many people are leveling alts at the moment, so when 1.6 hits they'll have multiple toons to take through VR content \ earn champion points. I know this isn't the option you're looking for, but when in Rome.....

seanvwolf · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

I've done all the quests in the earlier zones and will finish this one with likely less than 500k/1m. By then I'll have cleared all delves and everything else I can do solo.

I'm baffled by this. I did every quest in the earlier zones and was ALWAYS two levels higher than the zone. I didn't try to be, it just happened. I had the same experience with a total of three characters I leveled (one in beta and two live) and the result was always the same. I was always 2 levels higher than the zone.

Have you been neglecting World Bosses and Public and Group dungeons? Those play a huge role in your exp gain for those zones. If you can't get a group for this content you should find an active guild that helps their lower level players.

Jaxsun · February 2015

They just need to make the progression from VR1-VR14 the same as 1-49. Then they don't need to remove the vet levels ir any of the gear and we can play as is grinding champion points through cadwell's silver/gold and craglorn.

firstdecan · February 2015

seanvwolf wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

I've done all the quests in the earlier zones and will finish this one with likely less than 500k/1m. By then I'll have cleared all delves and everything else I can do solo.

I'm baffled by this. I did every quest in the earlier zones and was ALWAYS two levels higher than the zone. I didn't try to be, it just happened. I had the same experience with a total of three characters I leveled (one in beta and two live) and the result was always the same. I was always 2 levels higher than the zone.

Have you been neglecting World Bosses and Public and Group dungeons? Those play a huge role in your exp gain for those zones. If you can't get a group for this content you should find an active guild that helps their lower level players.

It's different once you get to the VR zones. At regular levels it's hard not to over level. At VR you have to work hard to keep pace with the zone.

Not that it's actually hard, tedious(ly) is a better word.

AlnilamE · February 2015

While I took an unorthodox path, my sorc just hit V5 and has only done Stros M'Kai, Betnikh and the Daggerfall part of the Glenumbra questline (she hit V5 just as she finished that).

On the other hand, she's done all the delves/skyshards in Cyrodiil (but barely any PvP or any of the PvE quests) and she just finished the Lower Craglorn questline this weekend, and she has completed all the normal Group Dungeons (thanks to some guildies who helped me with the last few I needed).

I don't think she's going to have any issues leveling, and my V14 didn't either, even though she hasn't finished all the side-quests in Silver yet or done anything in Caldwell's Gold yet other than the Dolmens.

The XP is out there. You just need to know where to look.

neueregel · February 2015

I got to VR 12 on my first player easy by doing all the quests/bosses/dolmens in each zone. I also did some quests in Cyridil each day when I could. That was by design. I dont think they thought people wouldn't level this way.

Scamandros · February 2015

I did not find much of a difficulty increase from say the vr2 zone to te vr3 zone, so underleveling shouldn't be too bad. Then once you finish all zone craglorn up until max level.
Maybe be different for other people. Myself my v2 templar does alright in vet zones, craglorn is brutal but parts of it are still doable with some preparation.

AlnilamE · February 2015

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Vet levels are not going away any time soon, so the problem is real.

You will not be a lot stronger for obtaining one VR rank or two, and you will not be a lot weaker for missing one or two VR ranks. The change to your stats is almost nothing, and the gear of the next tier is not a whole lot better. Therefore, it's not a big deal if you go into a veteran zone slightly underleveled. I had no trouble doing most of the solo content for my VR10 zone at VR6-7. You won't be able to use some of the drops, but apart from that you should be OK. PvE drops mostly end up at vendors or deconstruction anyway.

The problem of reaching VR10 and VR14 is another matter. I did quite a few hours of Dwemer dungeon farming for motifs when they were new (hence my visit to the VR10 area as VR6), and made lots of gold and a couple of VR ranks from that. I haven't been to Craglorn yet except to have my face eaten by wasps for the reward of one crafting writ, and I am halfway between VR13 and VR14, and I didn't feel as if I had to grind to level. Farm, yes, some. Grind, no, never.

I did all world bosses and all dolmens, though, some solo and some with help from random people in zone chat. I also had a good guild full of people around my level who were willing to team up for the group and public dungeons. While that shouldn't make a huge difference to XP, it does make the game more fun.

I know the wasps you speak of.

My V4 sorc managed to get them by herself for the first time ever this weekend. :-)

Fortunately, the survey will be moved a bit on 1.6 (though I have not verified this yet)

Feimerdre · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

Okay, this is not a 'whine', I seriously want to know how I'm expected to progress further in the game as it exists today.

How the hell am I going to level beyond VR5?

.....

Please don't say PVP, I don't PVP, I hate PVP and don't see why I should be expected to do something I loathe in order to progress .. and equally I know some people only want to level by PVP and really hate having to do PVE content, especially group stuff, to progress.

I have a VR9 in VR9 Content, a VR4 in VR4 Content and a VR4 in VR5 Content.
This isnt all too hard, you know. If you spend some time with easy mobs like undead you will be very fine sitting at 100-120k XP per hour while questing. It is pretty well balanced to travel though VR content while gaining the needed XP. Just take ALL quests not only Cadwell's and take on ALL dolmen ALL bosses and ALL dungeons. No need for public and group ones even if its fine to keep an eye on zonechat for some ppl seeking others to do them. There's lots of ppl looking for help at dolmens too (even if they can be perfectly soloed with almost any class). I don not feel like it should be made easier. I am doing like 3-4k/pull on undead. Do some rounds on them and be happy seeing your xp bar move on

seanvwolf · February 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

It's different once you get to the VR zones. At regular levels it's hard not to over level. At VR you have to work hard to keep pace with the zone.

Not that it's actually hard, tedious(ly) is a better word.

Are you suggesting I'm not at v14?

Slurg · February 2015

Veteran leveling feels very slow and the XP awarded for turning in some quests sometimes seems quite low. You can't rely only on quest turn-in XP to stay on level for a zone. Killing a ton of stuff is necessary if you don't want to PVP or do group dungeons. I find that grinding is a little less "grindy" in the veteran zones if you do it a little at a time. If you want to stay on level you should kill every mob you see at a quest hub, preferably multiple times (they tend to re spawn quickly). Also even if you can't get others to help, try soloing some dolmens and world bosses. Depending on how your skills match up (and if you don't mind dying a few times to find out) you may be successful. My personal favorite was getting killed three times by that lich general thing and then after finally defeating it, that's when finally someone showed up to help.

UrQuan · February 2015

You say you've done all of the Cadwell's quests for the zone, and you've done all quests for the previous zones. Are you sure you've done all of them, and not just Cadwell's quests and some of the side quests? Did you do the VR version of the starter islands?

I ask because my 2 VR characters are still tracking ahead of the opponents in their zones, so I'm wondering if you may have missed some content. Of course, both of my VR characters also hit VR 1 early into Coldharbour, so that may have something to do with it.

As others have said, though, if you're 1-2 vet ranks below the mobs in your zone, it shouldn't make a big difference in being able to fight them and do the quests.

AlnilamE wrote: »

I know the wasps you speak of.

My V4 sorc managed to get them by herself for the first time ever this weekend. :-)

Ah yes, I know it well. My VR5 has successfully fought that pack of wasps about half a dozen times. And unsuccessfully fought them a significant number of times as well... A lone VR5 has difficulty fighting a swarm of VR10 mobs (edit: or are they VR10? It's been a while since I've tried to fight them, as I've been saving up my surveys since I heard they'd be moving the location in 1.6). Go figure

wraith808 · February 2015

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I completely agree, there really does need to be an increase in the experience provided by a lot of the quests, especially the main line in each zone.

It's already increased. I remember going through a vet dungeon with some people who'd missed it when they were going through. They received a *lot* more experience than I. I think that we figured out it was a percentage increase based on how much you needed for the next level, so I'm not sure if that has changed since they stopped scaling the XP needed per vet level, but I've been consistently overleveled for the VR zones, not doing anything extra. I'm currently almost at VR10 in Shornhelm and the mobs are VR8.

I remember being at that point when I thought that I was going really slow (and it was about VR4) ... but I think it's just the massive amount of content. That, and I hated the EP quests.

Sharee · February 2015

Do not worry about mobs being higher VR. I completed cadwell's gold before the huge nerf that made VR content easy, and was VR7 at the end.

After the VR levels nerf, with the right build and gear, my DK alt was capable of soloing packs of Craglorn mobs while still being only VR 1

Mathius_Mordred · February 2015

I would ask the OP if he has the Master Explorer achievement for each zone, if not then he's missed locales and delves/caves and probably plenty of hidden quests near those areas. I'm at almost VR6 in a VR5 region, I never leave an area until I'm sure I've done all I can and I've not done Cadwell Gold, Craglorn or Cyrodil yet, that should take me to VR12, when I start doing the vet dungeons and undaunted quests with the guild I just joined, Alith, I think that will take me the rest of the way.

Arwen_7 · February 2015

Most of this seems to be moaning about how slow it is to level. Would you be happier if it took 500000 to level, but there were 28 vet levels?

I play for 3-4hrs at a time, maybe 3 or 4 times a week and I think levelling is fine. I at least get a sense of achivment when I go up a level since I have actively worked to get there.
It seems everyone just wants to reach V14 as quick as possible then moan that there is nothing to do now they cannot level any more.

AlnilamE · February 2015

Arwen_7 wrote: »

Most of this seems to be moaning about how slow it is to level. Would you be happier if it took 500000 to level, but there were 28 vet levels?

I play for 3-4hrs at a time, maybe 3 or 4 times a week and I think levelling is fine. I at least get a sense of achivment when I go up a level since I have actively worked to get there.
It seems everyone just wants to reach V14 as quick as possible then moan that there is nothing to do now they cannot level any more.

Pretty much. I think of 1 vet level = 10 normal levels.

dietlime · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

Okay, this is not a 'whine', I seriously want to know how I'm expected to progress further in the game as it exists today.

How the hell am I going to level beyond VR5?

I'm in Eastmarch on my first post-VR3 character and finished all the Cadwell's quests for the zone and have only 3 or 4 quest hubs left .. I am less than 400k into VR4, having entered here at 180k short of VR4.

I've done all the quests in the earlier zones and will finish this one with likely less than 500k/1m. By then I'll have cleared all delves and everything else I can do solo.

There are precious few players doing this content so I rarely get to do a Dolmen and never see groups of the group dungeons in the zones. Not that would help much as ZOS have nerfed the XP from such content so I'm not likely to make up my missing 500k from those any time soon.

I figure I'll likely be able to complete The Rift at VR4 (I doubt I'll even reach VR5 by the time I've cleared the zone) but that means I'll enter the VR6 zone at VR4 .. I don't see much progress being possible shortly after that.

Do ZOS really expect me to grind 500k per zone killing mobs, because there's little else to do?

The XP per level needs halving now that the initial rush of players has ended and the sources of XP have been nerfed to the ground. VRs are going to be around for likely at least another 6 months, without the XP per rank being seriously cut I don't see how anyone will reach VR10 these days.

Please don't say PVP, I don't PVP, I hate PVP and don't see why I should be expected to do something I loathe in order to progress .. and equally I know some people only want to level by PVP and really hate having to do PVE content, especially group stuff, to progress.

Yeah that's when I quit the game, too. I was soloing VR3 dolmens using max-craft potions and self-made glyphs and gear, which felt awesome, but at the end of the day I didn't see another ~100+ hours of that same routine being worthwhile.

I am going to try again at 1.6 and perhaps start a new, and try the game out on Xbox One. I'll probably pay their $20 for an account copy even though i don't know if I am going to play the game.

ESO has a lot going for it, but the VR ranks are boring and I would rather play Morrowind (or almost any other single player RPG) if I was going to play a video game alone.

dietlime · February 2015

Arwen_7 wrote: »

Most of this seems to be moaning about how slow it is to level. Would you be happier if it took 500000 to level, but there were 28 vet levels?

I play for 3-4hrs at a time, maybe 3 or 4 times a week and I think levelling is fine. I at least get a sense of achivment when I go up a level since I have actively worked to get there.
It seems everyone just wants to reach V14 as quick as possible then moan that there is nothing to do now they cannot level any more.

No, they want to reach VR14 after a reasonable amount of time spent alone and proceed to a multiplayer challenge mode where the content is extremely difficult but repeatable and finding groups is easy.

dietlime · February 2015

I have soloed craglorn delves at VR5. It's slow and unrewarding. I'd like to do something really difficult that takes a team, but there is no way to access that content without an unreasonable time commitment.

I could find a more compelling co-op experience that doesn't require work just to access in any number of dedicated small format coop challenge games.

Even Bioware's recent ultra-shallow hyper-challenging forays into multiplayer coop scratch that itch better than ESO does, since the scratcher can actually reach my back.