Grinding Frenzy - Should ZoS encourage it, leave it be, or continue to nerf it.

Alphashado · February 2015

I have to admit it. My first time through VRs, I thought grinding was a bit lame. I did think Vet Levels were tedious, but I enjoyed the story and the content.

Now I am on my 2cnd and 3rd VR characters, and I absolutely dislike V1-V14. I am finding myself taking as many shortcuts as possible in order to ease the pain. So I took my VR3 up to a popular grind spot this morning. It was only 8am server time. And it was packed. I mean crazy packed. People were fighting over mobs like old ladies at a shoe sale. This is because grinding spots are getting harder and harder to find. As soon as one is found, it gets hit with the mighty nerf hammer. Like ZoS is saying: "Trust us. Keep doing all the quests and going through V1-V14 content like it was designed, and eventually you will grow to like it."

Well, V1-V14 isn't an acquired taste. It doesn't get better with time. In fact, it gets WORSE with time. Supposedly VR are going away at some point. Who knows if, or when that will actually happen. But even if that does happen, we will have the Champion System, which will also inspire grinding. Especially for people who aren't interested in creating an alt, have completed most objectives on their main characters, and are going to struggle finding ways to earn CPs.

But I am curious what the community thinks. Do you feel ZoS should encourage grinding, leave it be, or keep trying to eradicate it?

LtCrunch · February 2015

I'm fine with grinding XP through legitimate means. The problem I have is many of the most popular grinds have been exploits. Kardala, The Shadow, the scorpion, Rkund were all exploits. I don't have a problem with things like anomalies, spellscar, etc. So I think ZOS should leave legitimate grind spots alone, but when something comes about that is clearly an exploit through abuse or manipulation of game systems they need to address it.

Suru · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

Let us play as we wish, do what we want and not dictate how our time should be spent. We play your game for a reason, I promise I will do your quests later, maybe...but let us kill your beautifully designed mobs over and over to get to end game content quicker until then. To you people who say its cheating, or random negative BS, Why? Grinding isnt affecting you, its just another means of character progression to your questing, just in our rights.

xMovingTarget · February 2015

ZoS should encourage grinding as an alternate way to earn XP/CPs.

By voting encourage it I mean make an option and stop nerfing it!

DDuke · February 2015

ZoS should absolutely eradicate grinding. They should continue to nerf it.

"LFM Spellscar CP Grind"

...

For the next 6+ months, no thanks.

And if not participating in it means I fall behind in CPs, then it's even worse.

Audigy · February 2015

ZoS should absolutely eradicate grinding. They should continue to nerf it.

I wonder how someone can complain about VR grind, where you get new tasks every few minutes, while he is fine with hitting the same mob for weeks.

Fact is, you guys don't complain due boredom or "its a grind", but because your exploits get fixed and you don't gain an advantage over others anymore.

Morshire · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

I have not really been a fan of grinding, in any other game I played. But let me tell you, I would have quit before I went and completed all of the Gold quests. I played through Silver and did all the quests, but by then, I was done with the repeat in a new area idea. I started grinding from VR6-VR14. Personally, it doesn't matter to me how people gain levels, as long as it is not an exploit. Grinding is not necessarily an exploit. I mean, you get XP for killing mobs during quests. Nothing wrong with the just killing mobs part. Just a different way of getting the job done. It has to be managed correctly, but it shouldn't be removed.

AshySamurai · February 2015

Only because I don't want this game become grind fest I don't mind grind nerf. In other hand why should we forbid different playstyle? If someone want just to grind - ok. In my opinion grind shouldn't give huge advantage over those who not grinding. So, grind should be viable, but not more profitble than just normal play.

TheBull · February 2015

ZoS should encourage grinding as an alternate way to earn XP/CPs.

Anything to make moving through vet levels easier.

TehMagnus · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

Just let us be. Nerf bugs like Scorpion farm which was abusive but let us farm in peace like every other MMO...

zward887_ESO · February 2015

ZoS should encourage grinding as an alternate way to earn XP/CPs.

What else are you supposed to do once your main character has finished Cadwells' Gold?

This game is sorely lacking in content after finishing Gold... they need to balance grinding, dungeons, and PvP exp gain direly.

I will not be rolling alts just to run through the same set of quests over and over, if that is all this game has to offer once i've finished Cadwell's Gold and hit VR14 then I will just stop playing and find something else.

Alphashado · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

zward887_ESO wrote: »

What else are you supposed to do once your main character has finished Cadwells' Gold?

This game is sorely lacking in content after finishing Gold... they need to balance grinding, dungeons, and PvP exp gain direly.

I will not be rolling alts just to run through the same set of quests over and over, if that is all this game has to offer once i've finished Cadwell's Gold and hit VR14 then I will just stop playing and find something else.

Gold only brings you to V9-V11. V12 if you are lucky. V10-V14 is Craglorn. Which is group content only, and that is a big part of the problem.

firstdecan · February 2015

I just want to see the poll results.

The grind is part of their new revenue stream. They created a game that takes longer and longer to accomplish anything or get to the end game content you can actually do with friends. Then they offer things like XP boosters in the crown store so you don't have to spend as much time grinding. It's all part of the freemium payment model the game is moving towards.

Psychobunni · February 2015

ZoS should encourage grinding as an alternate way to earn XP/CPs.

I'm actually inbetween encourage and leave it be. Encourage so that its not nerfed to best exp only gained by groups of 2 or done in a manner that players can siphon exp from grinding players AND put an end to QQ in game and on forum from players whining that people are supposed to play how they want them to....I mean if it was an openly intended grind spot then people can take their tissues and go home.

Leave it be because there is a bunch of players at V14 that ZOS is leaving in the cold with viable ways to achieve Champion points as equally as new V1's.
While I am not a pvp player in the slightest and ZOS has nerfed my sorc so much due to pvp I hope Cyrodiil blows up....I can still appreciate a pvp player's want to get to V14 and get into the play they are after.
And last but not least on pve side once you leveled the first toon, it is simply boring as h**l to do it again, and again, and again. Dungeons suck, RNG isnt even worth the waste of time/repair/pots/food....

Provide different ways for players to reach their goals with equal reward.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

I just want to see the poll results.

How about just remove VR

Alphashado · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

How about just remove VR

Hopefully they will. Time will tell. But that will not change ESO player's desire to grind because the Champion System encourages it. Especially for players that are already V14 and have no desire to level an alternate character just so that their main character can progress in the CS.

Vyle_Byte · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

There are people who enjoy questing, there are people who enjoy grinding. There are people who enjoyed questing the first time around and it becomes a tedious pain in the arse, so then they decide to grind instead.

Both should be viable imo. At least give us that, after all ZOS has almost negated the whole "play how you want", leave us something that makes us feel like that's somewhat true. I have no issues with how anyone wants to play, neither should anyone else. As long as its not exploits, leave it be.

technohic · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

I would leave it be. Not sure if it encourages it, but also need to un-nerf a lot of places. You run into them while questing and you know what happened when you are getting 85 XP in a VR9 zone. That nerf also hurts XP gains for people who hit those areas questing and its kind of dumb.

Locke_ESO · February 2015

ZoS should encourage grinding as an alternate way to earn XP/CPs.

As I commented in another thread I think they need to make more legitimate grinding available as an option either through dungeons or making more spots in the open world. Forcing people to constantly retread old content to level new characters is not a smart way to retain players. I'm currently making my third alt and quite frankly repeating the same quests I have done already twice is just not fun even for someone who really enjoyed them the first time. 99% of them are not a game play challenge so it's literally just following the same story again or more to the point running to an npc and skipping the conversation until I can move on. If new players choose to do this then they are missing out imo but again it should be their choice how to play the game.

The one issue perhaps is the champion system which is obviously seen as long term progression that they want to use an incentive to sell new zones for extra xp possibilities.

DeLindsay · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

AshySamurai wrote: »

Only because I don't want this game become grind fest I don't mind grind nerf. In other hand why should we forbid different playstyle? If someone want just to grind - ok. In my opinion grind shouldn't give huge advantage over those who not grinding. So, grind should be viable, but not more profitble than just normal play.

ALL MMO's are grind fests. If you aren't grinding XP you are grinding, aka farming, crafting mats or gear or achievements or Gold or other various drops, etc. Grinding is a no less valid way to do anything in game than any other method as long as it isn't exploiting a bug in the game, like the Scorpion boss in Upper Craglorn that would just spawn indefinitely if you didn't kill the regular Scorpions.

The problem with ESO is it's so grind dependent. Doing the exact same quests over and over because there's no variation by Faction/Race gets boring REAL fast. The other side of that coin is those who hate PvE and would rather just PvP all the time get terrible XP for that endeavor (which is being adjusted in 1.6, I know). Even if you love Questing you will run out at some point and then you have very few options. Even Dungeons give absolute crap for XP so that's not a great option either (yes this is also being adjusted in 1.6). This is compounded by the LFG Tool being nearly useless so running Dungeons back to back like you can in many MMO's is hard to do.

We also get no XP for Gathering like some MMO's give. That's a no less valid way to spend one's time in game but they get NOTHING for that time towards the Champion System so guess what, they have to grind too. ZoS needs to stop nerfing Grinding that isn't an exploit and people need to stop acting likes it's somehow cheating. Let people play however they want to play while giving them XP for playing the way they want to play.

On a side note, if you want to be a Thief in 1.6 you better hope you don't like Champion Points. As it sits right now you get a whopping 915 XP for ONLY the Safeboxes/World Chests (at VR14) and that's it. There's no XP for Lockpicking Homes or successfully Pickpocketing an NPC or even successfully Fleeing from a Guard. Sure you make Gold from it, but you make Gold from Grinding too, and Questing and Dungeoning, etc, but the difference is all of them offer XP too.

Fellwitch · February 2015

Just saw this thread.

Maybe they should un-nerf dungeon xp so people actually do them.

Alphashado · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

Fellwitch wrote: »

Just saw this thread.

Maybe they should un-nerf dungeon xp so people actually do them.

I agree with this 100%

ESO has some absolutely beautiful dungeons with very little incentive to run them more than once. The initial quest completion and achievement is nice XP, but after that, what incentive is there?

The undaunted pledges and a few of the dropped pieces from VR mode are a step in the right direction, but there needs to be WAY more incentive to keep people grouping up for dungeons and they need to award WAY more XP than they currently do.

helediron · February 2015

ZoS should encourage grinding as an alternate way to earn XP/CPs.

Brandalf wrote: »

I'm fine with grinding XP through legitimate means. The problem I have is many of the most popular grinds have been exploits. Kardala, The Shadow, the scorpion, Rkund were all exploits. I don't have a problem with things like anomalies, spellscar, etc. So I think ZOS should leave legitimate grind spots alone, but when something comes about that is clearly an exploit through abuse or manipulation of game systems they need to address it.

I leveled some skills in Rkundzelf. There was no exploit - just lots of monsters to kill. Running through the dungeon and killing everything took fivesome minutes. Get out and repeat. It was exactly same as during the quest, excluding the puzzle room.
I have done quests now half a dozen times, and i really want to use all ways of gameplay for leveling. I pick and choose. We aready have seen Craglorn abandoned. The nerfs didn't reach their goal but broke the place. All the XP nerfs must be removed, and enlightment should do it's course.

Syntse · February 2015

helediron wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

I'm fine with grinding XP through legitimate means. The problem I have is many of the most popular grinds have been exploits. Kardala, The Shadow, the scorpion, Rkund were all exploits. I don't have a problem with things like anomalies, spellscar, etc. So I think ZOS should leave legitimate grind spots alone, but when something comes about that is clearly an exploit through abuse or manipulation of game systems they need to address it.

I leveled some skills in Rkundzelf. There was no exploit - just lots of monsters to kill. Running through the dungeon and killing everything took fivesome minutes. Get out and repeat. It was exactly same as during the quest, excluding the puzzle room.
I have done quests now half a dozen times, and i really want to use all ways of gameplay for leveling. I pick and choose. We aready have seen Craglorn abandoned. The nerfs didn't reach their goal but broke the place. All the XP nerfs must be removed, and enlightment should do it's course.

Well you did it with the right way. Think I was in a group too few times. However I've also been in a group couple of times where the purpose was not to run through the whole dungeon but only kill the spider dwemers in the first room and run out, regroup and get back in. With that method you used like 50sec to clear the room and netting you 1mil exp in about 35 minutes. That was exploit of the game mechanics where the mobs respawned every time you entered the dungeon and gave decent amount of exp with it.

Kragorn · February 2015

I just want to see the poll results.

None of the options is what I think.

1) Encouraging it isn't what I think should happen because that inevitably will detract from other methods of getting XP

2) Leave it alone would be my choice except if we're starting from here then it's not what I want, they've nerfed all XP grinds up until now (most egregious being the 'crystal' nerfs in Craglorn and others in over-world content) and it's a racing certainty any they missed in 1.6 will be nerf-batted to Oblivion not long after.

3) NO, because if you remove grinding you're making the game even more a 1990s group-or-die affair and some of us don't like being forced to 'group up' simply to get leveling XP.

jeevin · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

If people want to grind let them. They've paid to play the game and it does no real harm to other players. It only hurts Zos because you don't buy xp boosters for $$$

Lord_Kreegan · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

To each their own...

I'm not fond of grinding myself unless a game is more open and less directed in nature; e.g., something like Morrowind: choose which direction you want to go and just set off exploring, leveling your skills as you go. ESO is not open like that at all. To me, more than anything, that is what ESO is missing in terms of being a REAL Elder Scrolls game.

Since it's not an open world, given the linear and boring nature of quests in this game (since it's a story-based game), I can certainly see why people would prefer to grind instead of quest... especially on alts. How many times can any player tolerate the Main Story arc, Fighters' Guild story arc, Mages' Guild story arc, Coldharbour, and Molag Bal? The game design almost kills the joy that could exist in playing alts.

Personally, I wish there was decent PvP. Cyrodil is not what I would call enjoyable PvP and there's little XP to be gained there. For what was supposed to be the highpoint and main draw of ESO, it's a major disappointment.

Grileenor · February 2015

ZoS should leave it be. Let people find ways to grind and leave them alone.

jeevin wrote: »

If people want to grind let them. They've paid to play the game and it does no real harm to other players. It only hurts Zos because you don't buy xp boosters for $$$

This. For me 'grinding' is like 'working' to get your char better. I wouldn't ever do this, I play for fun - no, really. But if someone is so eager to get better to spend hours and hours with doing the same, why not. I enjoy harvesting, questing, crafting and such. V1-V14 is tedious? Not for me. But if someone has fun while 'grinding' mobs, got for it.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Grinding Frenzy - Should ZoS encourage it, leave it be, or continue to nerf it.

Grinding Frenzy - Should ZoS encourage it, leave it be, or continue to nerf it. 107 votes