Level 1-50 zones so easy, it's frustrating! Suggestions wanted.

spoqster · February 2015

I like this game so much that I decided to pull up a second character. It's really sad to see that the content is so easy, that it is very hard to have fun playing the leveling zones as intended.

TL;DR
I know that a lot of people have been complaining that the game is too hard and that leveling takes too long. This thread is to point out that there is also another side to the story, that the game currently is way too easy and thus creates a lot of boredom and encourages players to skip content.

There is not much fun content for experienced players while leveling, only the parts of the zones where you are still under-leveled, the public dungeons while you are under-leveled and the group dungeons.
Getting the skill points from the quests and the skyshards from solo dungeons is thus a very boring and frustrating (as in not challenging) experience.
Constantly worrying about being over-leveled is a terrible experience.

Field Report

I played through the first zone by myself and quickly realized that I am leveling way too fast and the mobs are getting easier and easier. It felt much worse than when I played it the first time, probably because I have better gear (crafted by main), I am a better player, but maybe they also nerfed the content. (I know the content would be harder if I didn't wear set armor, but not by much. And I am enjoying my Ashen Grip fire breath. :-))
So I decided to just do the zone main quests, skipping almost all side quests and postponing the main story, fighters and mages guild until later. Doing that I was still over-leveled in zone 3.
Now a friend joined in and we wanted to play together. You'd think that would be great fun, but no. For two players playing content of their level it's so ridiculously easy, it's like whacking corn with a baseball bat. So we skipped to the next (fourth) zone and did Dolmen hunting.
That was still too easy, so we skipped to the fifth.
I am talking about roughly 8 hours of gameplay here and we increased about 8 levels in that time. Leveling went even quicker since we were under-leveled now.
In zone 5 we realized that being roughly 5 levels below the mobs (35 vs 40), we could still solo the vast majority of the content.
Now we are trying out Coldharbor at level 37 and it's still too easy for two players. We had a lot of fun in the public dungeon Village of the Lost, though.
I am looking forward to the vet zones.
PS. I tried out the first main story quests which are scaled to my level and it was also not challenging at all.

Conclusion
I cannot fathom that it is intended that good players have to skip all the beautiful content so that they don't get bored to tears because they are too powerful.

Solution
What to do? This is not easily solvable unless they significantly lowered (at least cu in half) the XP you are getting. But that would make leveling twice as long for those who want to get to endgame quickly.

Allow players to lower the xp gain rate at character creation (and possibly later on). This would effectively increase the difficulty of the game without the need for rebalancing the content. The xp gain rate should be a slider with the max set to the current setting and the minimum to go as low as they want, then every player can find the right rate for them.
Introduce a difficulty setting by downscaling the character's attributes and possibly associating this with a set of achievements. So for example, you could start a new character in "Ironman Mode" that significantly downscales all attributes for the single player experience, but has no downscaling when entering Cyrodiil or vet dungeons and trials. There should be multiple ironman settings to make this useful for many players.
Give players access to all skill points while they are in PVP and in endgame dungeons/trials (and scale their stats). This would allow players to get started with PVP and endgame quickly and they can switch between these competitive modes and the more relaxed single player experience from early on in the game.

Any other ideas? What do you think?

UPDATE
Please do not suggest to use low level gear or similar meta gaming solutions. This thread is about wanting to play the game as intended, including the use of gear, potions and food. Please comment on my suggestions or provide better ideas. Put yourself in the shoes of the game director and ask yourselves: "What would I do to allow some users to play a more difficult game without changing the experience for everyone else who is content with the current gameplay? What can be done so that it offers the best possible experience for the players and yet requires as little work as possible from the developers?"

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · February 2015

for solo content, don't repair. i do it all the time. in fact, since VR11 i won't even repair my gear soloing craglorn until i actually straight up die, because my gear is so broken.

i also liked rift's mentor system. it sounds like now you can boost your level as well if you are grouped with someone, to bring you more in line with them.

Lord_Kreegan · February 2015

Take off all of your armor. Unslot all of your weapons and skills. Eat no foods, drink no drinks, and sell all of your potions. Only attack groups of five or more
mobs using light and heavy attacks with just your fists.

That should solve your problems.

spoqster · February 2015

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Take off all of your armor. Unslot all of your weapons and skills. Eat no foods, drink no drinks, and sell all of your potions. Only attack groups of five or mobs using light and heavy attacks with just your fists.

That should solve your problems.

Let me make clear that I did not mean to come across as arrogant. I am an experienced player, but there are many, many better players out there. I am certain that most players who roll an alt will face the exact problems as me. And also I had similiar problems, if not as pronounced, when I ran the content for the first time.

Now as to your suggestion - and I do know that you are being a bit ironical, but I still would like to comment - what you are suggesting might work, but it feels a bit beside the point. I don't want to play a gimped game and I want to get recognised in some way for beating a more difficult game. Playing football with your legs bound together can be fun once of twice if you're playing with your kids, but you're not going to do that on a competitive basis for an extended amount of time.

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija · February 2015

if you find it easy, nothing stops you running naked, toggle off ui. stupid post

yodased · February 2015

tl:dr you are using it wrong.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

What you must bear in mind is this:

The second time though, you know the game.

You know the animations for various attacks, the counters, you know the skills and their overall affects and synergies with each other.

You know more about gear, blocking, moving, timing.

Those things alone will make things seem much simpler than they first were.

Along with the other suggestions, consider trying completely different skillsets this run through, weapons, gear, all of it.

It will then make the game somewhat new again.

It's not so much that it's gotten easier, it's more likely that you've gotten better.

**You can always proceed to the vet content. Some of it will make you rethink the simple factor, as well.

AlnilamE · February 2015

Gear does make a difference at low levels.

Also, if you kill mobs while grouped with someone, there is bonus XP, so you level faster. So if you want to increase the difficulty, you don't want to group up, unless you are going to a high level zone (or Cyrodiil).

If you use white gear with no enchants, that should also make it harder.

I do tend to spoil my alts, so they have a pretty easy time going through the content.

istateres · February 2015

Try leveling in Cyrodill

Winnower · February 2015

there are no mmos that i am currently aware of in which the basic content is not all face-roll. it has ALL been dumbed down to having exactly no challenge.

i no longer play for a challenge in this manner, i play as an enjoyable way to pass the time -- my son who is 22 no longer plays mmos at all because he still wants games that are challenges. he gave up pvp in several games including SW:TOR because most people might as well be moving in slow motion as far as he is concerned.

so yes, pvE has basically no significant degree of difficulty in this or really any of the popular mmos as of this time.

EQ prior to Luclin or LoTRO with the original release of Moria when it was end-game are the last times i remember regular pvE (not raid) content representing a challenge - at all.

Lord_Kreegan · February 2015

spoqster wrote: »

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Take off all of your armor. Unslot all of your weapons and skills. Eat no foods, drink no drinks, and sell all of your potions. Only attack groups of five or mobs using light and heavy attacks with just your fists.

That should solve your problems.

Let me make clear that I did not mean to come across as arrogant. I am an experienced player, but there are many, many better players out there. I am certain that most players who roll an alt will face the exact problems as me. And also I had similiar problems, if not as pronounced, when I ran the content for the first time.

Now as to your suggestion - and I do know that you are being a bit ironical, but I still would like to comment - what you are suggesting might work, but it feels a bit beside the point. I don't want to play a gimped game and I want to get recognised in some way for beating a more difficult game. Playing football with your legs bound together can be fun once of twice if you're playing with your kids, but you're not going to do that on a competitive basis for an extended amount of time.

Let me clarify my viewpoint:

I play eight characters simultaneously; different races, different classes, different skill sets, different weapon and armor load-outs, and all three factions.

There is of course a huge redundancy in replaying the various zones and not enough difference in gameplay due to race, class, and skill selection. Even if there wasn't such a redundancy, the quest system is so formuliac that a player doesn't even need half a brain to play: go from point A to point B following the arrows on the compass; kill *** enroute; maybe pick up a side quest or two; kill some more *** and a mini-boss at the end; and click on things with arrows over them.

It's ridiculously easy. But that's what sells.

People don't buy games to think. They buy games for recreation.

And -- what you obviously do not comprehend -- it isn't a competition. Nobody is better than anybody else by virtue of quest completion, gear accumulation, character level, or character statistics. We're still the same inconsequential human beings we were before we started playing this silly ass game.

The people who think it is a competition are rather pathetic human beings. They need to get a [real] life.

So, "easy" doesn't matter when you get right down to it. Enjoy it or don't. Play it for recreation or don't. But understand that a company has put this out as a product with one purpose -- and only one purpose -- in mind: to make money.

If you want challenge you need to play a sandbox game... if you can find one that isn't just another "poser"...

When you buy a game like ESO, you know what you're getting before you even install the game. It's a PRODUCT intended to make money for the developer. That's all it is. Nothing more and nothing less. The developers have spent more time sitting down with the marketers to figure out what sells than they have figuring out what players want.

And marketers fall somewhere between pond scum and dirt.

McDoogs · February 2015

Its too hard (tedious) for me to do a fourth time

Bloodfang · February 2015

The first few months people were whining everything is too hard in this game..
Now everything is too easy lol..

BBSooner · February 2015

I enjoyed leveling in 1-50 in beta when bosses, though not super hard, felt like bosses. But leveling is the "everybody" experience, so the game had to be reduced to allow for everybody to not get their feelings hurt/question their aptitude in their choice of entertainment. It's a "lowest common denominator" experience, I'd say just try to enjoy the stories and look towards endgame for difficulty.

Jando · February 2015

Do the main questline...and then skip the main story of your native faction and go right to VR?

clocksstoppe · February 2015

Just steamroll grind through the 1-50 zones and enjoy your 10x slower veteran zones.

Warraxx · February 2015

i'm leveling my sorc alt with no weapons slotted...

Metrobius · February 2015

This thread is pointless. You already have ways to make the content harder without the devs help and you know it.

Ommamar · February 2015

I don't think it is pointless at all, particularly when you take into the account of the champion system. As an example I will give you experience on the test servers. In the initial NA 70 point copy I played several developing alternate characters who felt extremely more powerful with the cps then without. Now with the huge over powerfulness going on I can take my level 21 Caster/Tank DK into the public Dungeon Darkshade cavern and solo the whole thing to include defeating every boss. I know that won't happen right away when update 6 hits live but rest assured it will happen. So what is the motivation to continue playing the game after one has reached end game content? As a developer I would sure be asking myself this question.

spoqster · February 2015

Winnower wrote: »

there are no mmos that i am currently aware of in which the basic content is not all face-roll. it has ALL been dumbed down to having exactly no challenge.

i no longer play for a challenge in this manner, i play as an enjoyable way to pass the time -- my son who is 22 no longer plays mmos at all because he still wants games that are challenges. he gave up pvp in several games including SW:TOR because most people might as well be moving in slow motion as far as he is concerned.

so yes, pvE has basically no significant degree of difficulty in this or really any of the popular mmos as of this time.

EQ prior to Luclin or LoTRO with the original release of Moria when it was end-game are the last times i remember regular pvE (not raid) content representing a challenge - at all.

Yeah, I guess enjoyment means something different for different people. I can enjoy the quests and it can be relaxing to just run around and farm a bit after a long day at work. But I am enjoying content most if there is a challenge involved. Especially the bosses should pose a bigger challenge, otherwise it breaks immersion. Thus I suggested to add player controls to adjust xp or stats. I am not an advocate for excluding and frustrating inexperienced players. Just let everyone decide for themselves.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

spoqster wrote: »

I like this game so much that I decided to pull up a second character. It's really sad to see that the content is so easy, that it is very hard to have fun playing the leveling zones as intended.

TL;DR
I know that a lot of people have been complaining that the game is too hard and that leveling takes too long. This thread is to point out that there is also another side to the story, that the game currently is way too easy and thus creates a lot of boredom and encourages players to skip content.
There is not much fun content for experienced players while leveling, only the parts of the zones where you are still under-leveled, the public dungeons while you are under-leveled and the group dungeons.

Getting the skill points from the quests and the skyshards from solo dungeons is thus a very boring and frustrating (as in not challenging) experience.

Constantly worrying about being over-leveled is a terrible experience.

Field Report
I played through the first zone by myself and quickly realized that I am leveling way too fast and the mobs are getting easier and easier. It felt much worse than when I played it the first time, probably because I have better gear (crafted by main), I am a better player, but maybe they also nerfed the content. (I know the content would be harder if I didn't wear set armor, but not by much. And I am enjoying my Ashen Grip fire breath. :-))

So I decided to just do the zone main quests, skipping almost all side quests and postponing the main story, fighters and mages guild until later. Doing that I was still over-leveled in zone 3.

Now a friend joined in and we wanted to play together. You'd think that would be great fun, but no. For two players playing content of their level it's so ridiculously easy, it's like whacking corn with a baseball bat. So we skipped to the next (fourth) zone and did Dolmen hunting.

That was still too easy, so we skipped to the fifth.

I am talking about roughly 8 hours of gameplay here and we increased about 8 levels in that time. Leveling went even quicker since we were under-leveled now.

In zone 5 we realized that being roughly 5 levels below the mobs (35 vs 40), we could still solo the vast majority of the content.

Now we are trying out Coldharbor at level 37 and it's still too easy for two players. We had a lot of fun in the public dungeon Village of the Lost, though.

I am looking forward to the vet zones.

PS. I tried out the first main story quests which are scaled to my level and it was also not challenging at all.

Conclusion
I cannot fathom that it is intended that good players have to skip all the beautiful content so that they don't get bored to tears because they are too powerful.

Solution
What to do? This is not easily solvable unless they significantly lowered (at least cu in half) the XP you are getting. But that would make leveling twice as long for those who want to get to endgame quickly.
Allow players to lower the xp gain rate at character creation (and possibly later on). This would effectively increase the difficulty of the game without the need for rebalancing the content. The xp gain rate should be a slider with the max set to the current setting and the minimum to go as low as they want, then every player can find the right rate for them.

Introduce a difficulty setting by downscaling the character's attributes and possibly associating this with a set of achievements. So for example, you could start a new character in "Ironman Mode" that significantly downscales all attributes for the single player experience, but has no downscaling when entering Cyrodiil or vet dungeons and trials. There should be multiple ironman settings to make this useful for many players.

Give players access to all skill points while they are in PVP and in endgame dungeons/trials (and scale their stats). This would allow players to get started with PVP and endgame quickly and they can switch between these competitive modes and the more relaxed single player experience from early on in the game.

Any other ideas? What do you think?

If they changed the game difficulty back to what it was during closed BETA...October-November, that would be perfect.

BUT, they would also need to change ALL solo only quest difficulty to where it is now.

TheShadowScout · February 2015

Anyone who finds their questing too easy can quite simply adjust that by messing with their gear.
Don't use a crafted set, use white stuff.
Don't use up to level, go with the obsolete set.
Play around until you find the level of challenge you want.

Or just try more. Aggro two groups of mobs at once, fight twice the number one usually does. Solo dolmen, public dungeons and world bosses, if you can.

There's always means and ways...

Or you can just breeze through the story on your alt, kick Molag in the Bal, and enjoy the veteran stuff...

To each as they choose.

Sharkan · February 2015

Anyone who finds their questing too easy can quite simply adjust that by messing with their gear.
Don't use a crafted set, use white stuff.
Don't use up to level, go with the obsolete set.
Play around until you find the level of challenge you want.

I share the OP concerns and I tend to disagree with the above point of view.
Gearing yourself up is part of the fun of any RPG, so running naked just to get some combat challenge doesn't sound a solution, but a way to fix a part of the game by breaking another one ^^

But balancing a game for everyone is impossible : just the skill difference between the same person as a total noob and as a veteran starting an alt is big enough to make it unbalanced.

The good news through is that so far I've never found an NPC refusing to give me a quest because I was too low level.

With my alt I skip all the side quest and just focus on the main storyline of the zone. This way, not only does it go faster, but I'm constantly facing enemies higher level then me.

But now that they have this scaling dungeon level system, I would often love to be able to adjust the level of difficulty when entering an instance. (with loot adjusted in consequence)

I've also dreamt of a special "group rules" server where all the content would be scaled up to offer challenge to groups and small groups.
As it is the game is far too much a (average) solo experience up to craglorn with some small patch of multiplayer content on the way...if you fancy it...

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

Level 1-50 is supposed to be easy. You dont want to run off your players quickly with overly difficult content. Now you go back and do that content after you have done vet ranks of course to you it will seem easy. You have gear, money and experience. Probably have a couple chars to craft you the best food too. Potions and enchantments etc.

So ya 1-50 is supposed to be a face roll for people who have already done it once (or more than once). Its working as intended.

Kragorn · February 2015

spoqster wrote: »

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Take off all of your armor. Unslot all of your weapons and skills. Eat no foods, drink no drinks, and sell all of your potions. Only attack groups of five or mobs using light and heavy attacks with just your fists.

That should solve your problems.

Let me make clear that I did not mean to come across as arrogant. I am an experienced player, but there are many, many better players out there. I am certain that most players who roll an alt will face the exact problems as me. And also I had similiar problems, if not as pronounced, when I ran the content for the first time.

Now as to your suggestion - and I do know that you are being a bit ironical, but I still would like to comment - what you are suggesting might work, but it feels a bit beside the point. I don't want to play a gimped game and I want to get recognised in some way for beating a more difficult game.

Tell me, what recognition are you expecting for 'beating' a video game? Especially one like an MMO where there is no actual 'win' because the game doesn't ever 'end'.

Brother_Numsie · February 2015

I hit the VR1 leveling zone around the third week after launch on my NB. The first thing I thought when I began was that this should have been what leveling 1-50 felt like. It was still easy, but you had to start paying attention to what you were doing or you would wipe. It just felt... good. If they could zone in on what they did there, I would be happy.

Karmine · February 2015

You are just better than you used to be, many people still struggle and die against same level mobs.

Pick randomized builds that don't make sense. Such as pick first Two Ability of your weapon and then First ability of all your classes. These are only abilites you are allowed to use now. Do not craft any gear, only use Quest Rewards.

Also all blocking/dodging is disallowed.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

Sharkan wrote: »

Anyone who finds their questing too easy can quite simply adjust that by messing with their gear.
Don't use a crafted set, use white stuff.
Don't use up to level, go with the obsolete set.
Play around until you find the level of challenge you want.

I share the OP concerns and I tend to disagree with the above point of view.
Gearing yourself up is part of the fun of any RPG, so running naked just to get some combat challenge doesn't sound a solution, but a way to fix a part of the game by breaking another one ^^

But balancing a game for everyone is impossible : just the skill difference between the same person as a total noob and as a veteran starting an alt is big enough to make it unbalanced.

The good news through is that so far I've never found an NPC refusing to give me a quest because I was too low level.

With my alt I skip all the side quest and just focus on the main storyline of the zone. This way, not only does it go faster, but I'm constantly facing enemies higher level then me.

But now that they have this scaling dungeon level system, I would often love to be able to adjust the level of difficulty when entering an instance. (with loot adjusted in consequence)

I've also dreamt of a special "group rules" server where all the content would be scaled up to offer challenge to groups and small groups.
As it is the game is far too much a (average) solo experience up to craglorn with some small patch of multiplayer content on the way...if you fancy it...

@Sharkan , agreed. So split the difference. Craft nothing, never repair.

When it breaks, you put on the next item of its kind you pick up, much as you do at 1-10.

You can also skip one zone entirely, starting out a full zone ahead. Limit group content to 3, not four. Limit it to 2 if you're overleveled for it.

There are plenty of twists you can add to your gameplay to make things more interesting.

(When your inventory is full, you are obligated to sell everything you're not wearing, for instance.)

Athas24 · February 2015

Op: I'm with you man. The first time I ran through with my character I thought the difficulty was about right, even though I was constantly over leveled. I find that ALL MMO's allow crazy fast xp gain because all the babies Q_Q that they can't level fast enough. There's countless threads complaining about things taking to long regarding levels, vet levels etc. Leveling is supposed to be the fun part of the game IMO, since that is where 80% or more of an MMO's content typically resides until much later in the game's life span. This is after several updates, major patches etc. With ESO it looks like it's going to be the majority of the content for quite some time yet. That being said, we are apparently going to get even faster XP gain for being subbed soon lol.

Lynnessa · February 2015

Karmine wrote: »

You are just better than you used to be, many people still struggle and die against same level mobs.

Pick randomized builds that don't make sense. Such as pick first Two Ability of your weapon and then First ability of all your classes. These are only abilites you are allowed to use now. Do not craft any gear, only use Quest Rewards.

Also all blocking/dodging is disallowed.

This. It's not that easy for all players; in fact, some players find it quite difficult. There are many reasons for this.

If you are seeking a challenge, others have suggested ways to make it challenging... but I wouldn't expect ZOS to make it harder when there are plenty of folks who already find it to be hard enough.

Karmine · February 2015

Athas24 wrote: »

Leveling is supposed to be the fun part of the game IMO, since that is where 80% or more of an MMO's content typically resides until much later in the game's life span. This is after several updates, major patches etc. With ESO it looks like it's going to be the majority of the content for quite some time yet. That being said, we are apparently going to get even faster XP gain for being subbed soon lol.

Gaming has become quite the Competitive thing. People are no longer happy with spending 20 hours in leveling 1-30 as they are not in par with other players, they need to be same level same geared to boost of their accomplishment that they don't want to put much effort into.

However if this game was set as single player, people would be content about doing this. I know couple of people that own Skyrim, played it for a lot of hours, but never reached high level on any character and never did Main Story line to the end.

Games in essence are suppose to be relaxation and entertainment. Not competition. However as an MMO that wants to be big, they have to try to be both.

I am on second playthrough on Aldmerian Dominion and just doing every single quest and listening to every NPC talk. Try not to think of levels, just wasting my spare time, distracting my brain.