504 Champion points unlocks more than 25% of the entire champion system power.

Faugaun · February 2015

More specifically:

141 points in the Thief trees
146 points in the Warrior trees
168 points in the Mage trees

Yields 25% of all bonuses unlocked.

Because it unlocks 1 point at a time alternating between warrior, thief, mage then to unlock the 25% under mage will require 168 in the other two trees. 168 * 3 = 504 champion points.

70/504 *100= 13.86% of the way to the 504 mark

504-70 = 434 CP points needing earned after it goes live.

434 * 400,000 exp = 173,600,000 experience

1,000,000 exp equals a veteran rank.

173,600,000/1,000,000 = 173.6 veteran ranks

13 million experience is the quantity of veteran ranks to level a character from VR1 to VR14

173.6/13 = 13.35

So for anyone who has leveled 13.35 characters to VR14 then you know how much work will be required to unlock 25% of the power contained within the champion system. Remember this only represents 434 of the total 3600 champion points. For those who have leveled 120.18 characters to vr14, first you cheated....and second that is the equivalent amount of work you must do to unlock 100% of the champion system power.

I think I will stop at about 10% happy hunting everyone.

supernico · February 2015

How can you level 13.35 characters to VR14 if max character on an account is 8?

Faugaun · February 2015

Two accounts?

A better question, how many accounts have 8 VR14's?

Robbmrp · February 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

173,600,000/1,000,000 = 173.6 veteran ranks
13 million experience is the quantity of veteran ranks to level a character from VR1 to VR14

So much for getting rid of the V1-V14 Grind. They just changed it from XP to Champion Points.

I fail to see how this will be any different when they remove the vet levels. Instead of grinding vet levels you will still be grinding champion points. If they were going to release new content every month to explore and grind in that would be different. We'll be lucky if we see new zones every 4-6 months as development will be more busy with new items for the cash I mean crown store.

Sharee · February 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

434 * 400,000 exp = 173,600,000 experience

1,000,000 exp equals a veteran rank.

173,600,000/1,000,000 = 173.6 veteran ranks

13 million experience is the quantity of veteran ranks to level a character from VR1 to VR14

Keep in mind that the amount of XP needed for one CP is only 100.000 while you are enlightened. And as long as you only earn 1CP a day, you will always be enlightened.

AlnilamE · February 2015

Yay math!

spryler · February 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

173,600,000/1,000,000 = 173.6 veteran ranks
13 million experience is the quantity of veteran ranks to level a character from VR1 to VR14

So much for getting rid of the V1-V14 Grind. They just changed it from XP to Champion Points.

I fail to see how this will be any different when they remove the vet levels. Instead of grinding vet levels you will still be grinding champion points. If they were going to release new content every month to explore and grind in that would be different. We'll be lucky if we see new zones every 4-6 months as development will be more busy with new items for the cash I mean crown store.

MMO's should have a permanent time sink in them to keep people interested and progressing. The secret to this is making the gap between the casual and the hardcore relatively small. I think this system does that quite well due to diminishing returns.

I fail to see how anyone who plays an MMO DOESNT want a permanent time sink. It's kind of the point of an MMO, that you never stop progressing in some way. Otherwise you could play a single player game.

I honestly never understood what the big deal with the Veteran levels were. The gear isn't that much difference, so I think the gap is largely symbolic.

To answer your question though, the difference between Vet levels and Championship system is that one is horizontal progression and the other is vertical.

Vertical - you actually level up in some manner and can wear new gear.
Horizontal - everyone is the same level and can wear the same gear.

Faugaun · February 2015

spryler wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

173,600,000/1,000,000 = 173.6 veteran ranks
13 million experience is the quantity of veteran ranks to level a character from VR1 to VR14

So much for getting rid of the V1-V14 Grind. They just changed it from XP to Champion Points.

I fail to see how this will be any different when they remove the vet levels. Instead of grinding vet levels you will still be grinding champion points. If they were going to release new content every month to explore and grind in that would be different. We'll be lucky if we see new zones every 4-6 months as development will be more busy with new items for the cash I mean crown store.

MMO's should have a permanent time sink in them to keep people interested and progressing. The secret to this is making the gap between the casual and the hardcore relatively small. I think this system does that quite well due to diminishing returns.

I fail to see how anyone who plays an MMO DOESNT want a permanent time sink. It's kind of the point of an MMO, that you never stop progressing in some way. Otherwise you could play a single player game.

I honestly never understood what the big deal with the Veteran levels were. The gear isn't that much difference, so I think the gap is largely symbolic.

To answer your question though, the difference between Vet levels and Championship system is that one is horizontal progression and the other is vertical.

Vertical - you actually level up in some manner and can wear new gear.
Horizontal - everyone is the same level and can wear the same gear.

Umm, no ....vertical progression = becomes more powerful over time.
Horizontal progression means you progress in ways that do not increase your power over time.

For a great example of horizontal progression see the skill wheel in "The Secret World". You don't become more powerful, but you continually unlock more skills increasing the build flexibility you have access too.

Gear treadmills are by default vertical progression. Gaining passives that emulate a gear treadmill is also by default a vertical (albeit in this case very very slow) vertical treadmill.

Dagoth_Rac · February 2015

I don't think the diminishing returns are diminishing enough. 14% of the CP only gives you 25% of the power? And that is probably going to take a year or more for a new player who plays a couple hours a day and does not use grind spots or exploits. I feel like you should get 50% of Champion System power in 2 or 3 months of Vet play. Maybe 75% power in 8 months of Vet play. And then let the min/max grind to 100% power be the long tail that takes years.

dharbert · February 2015

At 400k XP per point, it will take 1,440,000,000 XP to reach 3,600 CP. That is 1.4 billion XP. That is insane. You would have to earn 1 million XP each and every day for 4 years straight to reach 3,600 CP.

AriBoh · February 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Yay math!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdV7OBfiJSE

Rev Rielle · February 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

173,600,000/1,000,000 = 173.6 veteran ranks
13 million experience is the quantity of veteran ranks to level a character from VR1 to VR14

So much for getting rid of the V1-V14 Grind. They just changed it from XP to Champion Points.

I fail to see how this will be any different when they remove the vet levels. Instead of grinding vet levels you will still be grinding champion points. If they were going to release new content every month to explore and grind in that would be different. We'll be lucky if we see new zones every 4-6 months as development will be more busy with new items for the cash I mean crown store.

Well grind or no, it's a person's perception that makes it so in ESO. Champion points make your character stronger, yes, but they're not 'required' to complete content. They're not 'levels' though many people seem to try and understand the system by relating it directly to leveling, which is inaccurate.

Honestly, if you want to grind CPs then you most certainly can and you'll likely hate it due to both the depth of the system, and the nature of 'grinding' (i.e. doing something mundane/boring just to min-max a character as quickly as possible). Once again; Champion Points are not designed that way.

Head to the PTS and try for yourself, create a character, don't allocate any CPs and have a play around in content you usually complete. You'll find you can still complete it, one just needs a little tweaking to their play-style. It's a little harder, sure. And that's to be expected, but it doesn't mean it can't be done.

reften · February 2015

I thought the number of CPs a toon got was the same if the account have 1 VR14 character or 8 VR14 characters...?

Faugaun · February 2015

oren74 wrote: »

I thought the number of CPs a toon got was the same if the account have 1 VR14 character or 8 VR14 characters...?

1 vr14 + 1 million exp gives you the most cp from conversion you must have misread something above

Rioht · February 2015

spryler wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

173,600,000/1,000,000 = 173.6 veteran ranks
13 million experience is the quantity of veteran ranks to level a character from VR1 to VR14

So much for getting rid of the V1-V14 Grind. They just changed it from XP to Champion Points.

I fail to see how this will be any different when they remove the vet levels. Instead of grinding vet levels you will still be grinding champion points. If they were going to release new content every month to explore and grind in that would be different. We'll be lucky if we see new zones every 4-6 months as development will be more busy with new items for the cash I mean crown store.

MMO's should have a permanent time sink in them to keep people interested and progressing. The secret to this is making the gap between the casual and the hardcore relatively small. I think this system does that quite well due to diminishing returns.

I fail to see how anyone who plays an MMO DOESNT want a permanent time sink. It's kind of the point of an MMO, that you never stop progressing in some way. Otherwise you could play a single player game.

I honestly never understood what the big deal with the Veteran levels were. The gear isn't that much difference, so I think the gap is largely symbolic.

To answer your question though, the difference between Vet levels and Championship system is that one is horizontal progression and the other is vertical.

Vertical - you actually level up in some manner and can wear new gear.
Horizontal - everyone is the same level and can wear the same gear.

Pretty much this.

For example, one game that nailed this perfectly IMO was diablo 2.

Once you reached the mid 80s level you were essentially done leveling for gear. All of the end-game gear were accessible to players 80+ and did not require extensive grinding. However, players could still continue leveling to 99 for additional, although small stat/skill increases.

While being a level 99 really gave very small benefits over someone say, level 85, it was still something fun to try work towards.

Also, for anyone interested getting to level 99 was a HUGE pain in the ass. You had to grind specific content for hours and hours (usually through bots) and anytime you died you would lose a huge chunk of XP. literally 1 death might set you back 50 hours of gametime.

THAT, is a timesink my friends.

Suru · February 2015

Im almost halfway there

onlinegamer1 · February 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

Two accounts?

A better question, how many accounts have 8 VR14's?

I'm getting there.

VVVV

Nestor · February 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

1 vr14 + 1 million exp gives you the most cp from conversion you must have misread something above

Or having multiple VR level characters such that they add up to 70. So, a VR12 and a VR4* (both just into the ranks) will give the max allocation also.

*it might be a VR3, but since a fresh VR1 does not really have any points yet in the VR scheme, you probably have to add a fresh VR12 and a fresh VR4 to get the max.