Is ZOS backing away from eliminating Veteran Ranks?

Iselin · February 2015

In a podcast a few days ago Paul Sage confirmed that Veteran Ranks will not be removed before the console launch. So they'll be around yet for the next 4-6 months.

He cited complexities related to itemization as the reason why it won't get done.

But it did make me wonder.... are they now "soft" on the idea of removing them at all?

And I also wonder if the console launch version will also start off with VR or if they will get a different version than the PC that does not include VR.

If it launches with it, I think that would be a good indication that they're rethinking its removal.

Of course, it'd also be relatively easy to change its name and just make level cap 63.

What do you guys think?

timidobserver · February 2015

The console version will be the same as the PC version. Other than different aesthetics and movement mechanics, the games will be mostly identical.

Gyudan · February 2015

The veteran ranks with the addition of the champion system would work well enough imo.
VR1-VR13 players could simply use more repeatable activities like AA, HR and DSA Normal scaling down to VR1 (without access to the leaderboards) just like the undaunted pledges.

Iselin · February 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

The console version will be the same as the PC version. Other than different aesthetics and movement mechanics, the games will be mostly identical.

Yes. That's what I understood as well. But it'd be pretty weird to release the console version with a feature that is about to be removed... hence my suspicion that it may never go away.

Elsonso · February 2015

I think that they have realised that Champion and Veteran can coexist. Since it will cost money to remove Veteran, and no one is going to buy this in the store,no reason to remove it.

timidobserver · February 2015

Iselin wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

The console version will be the same as the PC version. Other than different aesthetics and movement mechanics, the games will be mostly identical.

Yes. That's what I understood as well. But it'd be pretty weird to release the console version with a feature that is about to be removed... hence my suspicion that it may never go away.

It isn't going to happen. It would be like they were developing two different games if they did that. The cost would be crazy. If/when vet ranks leave it will be across all platforms.

bosmern_ESO · February 2015

Originally ESO was going to have levels 1-50, then V1-VX and then there was going to be another set of ranks after vet ranks.

I honestly like the way the system goes with veteran ranks, I've always enjoyed the games that let continue to level after you hit the 'max level' (in ESO case it would be 50) But the Xp required is a lot more.

The way they've been changing Veteran ranks makes it a lot better, I think ZoS realized people didn't have problems with Veteran ranks themselves but how you attain them and the content you have to do.

Way back to the beginning of ESO Veteran ranks were terrible, you would go to another faction, pretty much get one-shot by mudcrabs and the quests gave you like 200xp with gear that wasn't even worth the effort.

If ZoS continues improving the way Veteran ranks are I don't have a doubt they will not go away.

MornaBaine · February 2015

Now if they'd just give us alternate ways to gain those VR levels than Cadwell's Silver and Gold...the cheesiest way to recycle content I've yet seen.

Metrobius · February 2015

I wont beleive anything a ZOS emloyee says until i see it in game. They routinely publish bold faced lies because they have absolutley no respect of heie customers.
But more on topic:
if the console launch has veteran ranks in game then i cant see them ever going away. Console players arent used to the kind of huge changes that happen in MMOs and i dont think the reaction would be good.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · February 2015

Metrobius wrote: »

I wont beleive anything a ZOS emloyee says until i see it in game. They routinely publish bold faced lies because they have absolutley no respect of heie customers.
But more on topic:
if the console launch has veteran ranks in game then i cant see them ever going away. Console players arent used to the kind of huge changes that happen in MMOs and i dont think the reaction would be good.

I agree with you here, if VR ranks do not get removed by the time the game goes to the Consoles then they will remain..

Alphashado · February 2015

Metrobius wrote: »

I wont beleive anything a ZOS emloyee says until i see it in game. They routinely publish bold faced lies because they have absolutley no respect of heie customers.
But more on topic:
if the console launch has veteran ranks in game then i cant see them ever going away. Console players arent used to the kind of huge changes that happen in MMOs and i dont think the reaction would be good.

If console players react to Vet Ranks the same way PC players did, then ZoS is in for a shocking revelation. Remember, there is a reason why they decided to remove them as part of the Champion System.

And in a nutshell, that reason is because 90% of the PC community dislikes them.

Nazon_Katts · February 2015

Well, back then it was all about the subs. Now it's all about the box sales. I don't think ZOS is very concerned about people quitting after hitting VR or playing through content once. Because that's pretty much what they're selling now.

Play the content you like, come back and pay for more when it releases. They pretty much expect people to leave (or not pay) inbetween DLC updates. VR plus CS is just filler content for those that don't.

RazielSR · February 2015

Vet ranks will be here,at least,until the game goes completely f2p. I mean the same as will be in march,but nor needing to buy the box for 20€.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · February 2015

RazielSR wrote: »

Vet ranks will be here,at least,until the game goes completely f2p.

At that point they wont care to remove them, to be honest in my opinion, they may never remove them now since it's going B2P..

I am worried about that..

Grapdjan · February 2015

Aren't VR levels fairly divisive?

Darkintellect · February 2015

The retrofitting of 63 levels into 50 levels is currently being done. It has been stated multiple times and more recently with the news of Tamriel Unlimited that the game is removing Vet levels due to the introduction of Champion Points. Vet levels are a disease and look severely out of place in a leveling format, especially since the levels were made to be streamlined for the conversion to champion points.

It was stated as a three phase system.

Phase 1 = Convert Veteran Levels to a linear format so each level is equal and make for an easy conversion to Champion Points.

Phase 2 = Introduce Champion Points in 1.6

Phase 3 = Remove Veteran Levels and reform content back to pre-veteran levels to include a multiplicative 0.80 ratio.

Stroggnonimus · February 2015

personally i'd even prefer for veteran levels to stay

stevepdodson_ESO888 · February 2015

Iselin wrote: »

In a podcast a few days ago Paul Sage confirmed that Veteran Ranks will not be removed before the console launch. So they'll be around yet for the next 4-6 months.

He cited complexities related to itemization as the reason why it won't get done.

But it did make me wonder.... are they now "soft" on the idea of removing them at all?

And I also wonder if the console launch version will also start off with VR or if they will get a different version than the PC that does not include VR.

If it launches with it, I think that would be a good indication that they're rethinking its removal.

Of course, it'd also be relatively easy to change its name and just make level cap 63.

What do you guys think?

Here's how it will be worded when they make their announcement...

"Veteran Ranks will be removed and replaced with the continuation of ordinary level numbers (i.e. 51, 52....etc.).
We will also be introducing further levels so you can go beyond the current limit (i.e. 65, 66...etc)"

In this way they have removed Vet Ranks as they said, yet still means everything else in-game, such as different armour and weapons and the new higher level food will still be relevant.

Further to that it means they have then introduced a whole new time-sink/grind for the new levels to keep you hooked.

[BTW - if you want to LOL my response just post a smiley face or something]

jeevin · February 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Metrobius wrote: »

I wont beleive anything a ZOS emloyee says until i see it in game. They routinely publish bold faced lies because they have absolutley no respect of heie customers.
But more on topic:
if the console launch has veteran ranks in game then i cant see them ever going away. Console players arent used to the kind of huge changes that happen in MMOs and i dont think the reaction would be good.

If console players react to Vet Ranks the same way PC players did, then ZoS is in for a shocking revelation. Remember, there is a reason why they decided to remove them as part of the Champion System.

And in a nutshell, that reason is because 90% of the PC community dislikes them.

Agreed. I've said the same in other threads. Zos knows the results of releasing the game with Veteran Ranks in place, it failed to keep it's players. Maybe they expect the lack of subscription will change this for console players. I feel history will only repeat.

mavrwb17_ESO · February 2015

Wait, so are vet ranks going away with 1.6 or not? I was under the impression they were being removed and people were getting CP equal to 1 per 200k xp?

Seraphyel · February 2015

To keep the VR would be an awful decision.

The VR system in ESO is one of the worst gameplay related progression methods I saw in any MMORPG in the last years. Not because the idea itself is bad, but Zenimax totally failed while developing the implementation.

starkerealm · February 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Now if they'd just give us alternate ways to gain those VR levels than Cadwell's Silver and Gold...the cheesiest way to recycle content I've yet seen.

No, Silver and Gold are basically a New Game + and New Game ++ mode. Which is somewhat unusual in MMOs. It also lets them do it without needing unique content for them, so that's a perk. But, I wouldn't really call it cheesy... unless you're talking about the actual frame story of being dumped their to walk a mile in their shoes.

fiftypercentgrey · February 2015

nothing cheesy about it. You can experience all the quests and storylines with one character. You dont have to but you can. I like it (even if it is kinda awkward for hardcore roleplayers).

and vet levels.. they said that they are doint the transition slowly and in different phases. 1.6 would be the next phase. They lied before so there is really no reason to believe anything they tell us. But I don't think that vet ranks will stay as long as there is no good reason for it. They were hyping the all-new-champion-system too hard.

Jaxsun · February 2015

mavrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wait, so are vet ranks going away with 1.6 or not? I was under the impression they were being removed and people were getting CP equal to 1 per 200k xp?

As of their last official statement they are not, nor have they ever been, going to be removed with 1.6. They stated they would be removed after 1.6. Originally most of us presumed it would be with 1.7 which could be months away.

Majic · February 2015

Veteran Administration

I haven't seen any sign that ZOS is backing away from removing the veteran rank system, but that doesn't mean they won't.

Given the already significant credibility problem with the player base, however, I think it would be best for them to stick to the plan as already announced, even if they were to suddenly come up with a "new, improved and way more awesome" VR system.

ZOS is going to great lengths to rebuild the ESO community, which has suffered terribly over the past year, and a reversal like this would undermine a lot of sincere and difficult work on their part, so I hope they don't.

We'll see.

I'll keep my popcorn handy.

dharbert · February 2015

Veteran ranks are going to be around for quite some time, maybe forever. Removing veteran ranks would be a monumental task, requiring a re-design of the entire game. Almost everything is based on veteran ranks. They would have to change the requirements, stats and bonuses for every piece of armor, every weapon, all jewelry, all foods, all drinks, all potions. All mobs and dungeons would have to be re-adjusted as well. It's not as simple as just removing veteran ranks.

technohic · February 2015

Thought for sure they said in that same live stream that they ARE still going to be eliminated but it won't be until after console launch.

dharbert · February 2015

technohic wrote: »

Thought for sure they said in that same live stream that they ARE still going to be eliminated but it won't be until after console launch.

They also said ESO would always be sub-based and never have a cash shop.

Roechacca · February 2015

They stated they would not be removed until they could find away that doesn't mess up the system . Since every patch and update has messed up the system so far , they can never remove vet ranks and not go back on their word .

Tonnopesce · February 2015

Veteran ranks as it is now are imo the best way to implement seasonal gear.

When the first Dlc will be released they can just add vr 15-16 with new items that drops only at that level so eventually a vr 14 who have played a lot will be in any case strongher that one who have gone straight to vr 16 due to the champions points passive but he will not be able to gain the vr 16 equip and in any case with the teorical + 30% xp boost (rings eso plus and potion) the vr 14 player will be able to cach up the ranks in 1-2 days without grinding too much.

I'm not sayng that the vr ranks have to stay ( actually i can think at least at other tree ways to implement the seasonal gear ) but since we all know that zos is a little bit lazy i do belive that they will remain in game till the servers shout down.....

Alphashado · February 2015

This is why they should just convert V1-V14 to lvl 50-63 and reduce the XP required so it's normal XP and not VR XP. You would be lvl 63 (level capped) at roughly the same amount of time it takes to get to V2-V3 currently. All of the gear would stay the same, all the crafting components would be the same. The only thing they would have to change is the text on the gear from "requires VR14" to "requires lvl 63".

If they were to do it that way and make Silver/Gold optional, the entire conversion would be easy peasy. People would be able to reach the level cap in a reasonable amount of time after completing the main story and all the gear would still work.

All of the quests and objectives would still be desirable at lvl 63 because of Champion Points.