Race changes

Corzz · February 2015

With the removal of soft caps in patch 1.6 I feel has made quite a bit dent in the viability in certain races and builds, some of the stronger races like Imperial and Dunmer have got even stronger with their % bonuses while races with niche passives like Orc and his sprinting passive has become more of a burden with soft caps these big stat races had the advantage but you could keep up with enchants and be close to their stats but have some niche abilities which was nice, but in 1.6 if your not one of the stat powerhouse races it will be tough,

What would you guys think of being able to change your race in the crown store? for example I spent a lot of time thinking of races and builds that have become obsolete with 1.6 my high elf DK Pyromancer build has suffered the most with these changes and DK now being better as a stamina kind of style it seems so far, and I really don't want to re-roll a new character with the same class just because my racial s are useless to my build,

Thoughts?

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · February 2015

Many posts and threads on this already, you may want to put RACE CHANGE into the SEARCH box and click GO.

AlnilamE · February 2015

No.

I'd rather see them remove all utility from racial passives.

Dragath · February 2015

They will change/update the Racials in a future Update.
Aside from that, Race Change would be a really nice addition to the Crown Store.

Gidorick · February 2015

Welcome to the forums. We generally don't want this to happen since it will be abused but we suspect it will come to the Crown Store at some point.

Rook_Master · February 2015

In my opinion, it's much more preferable to simply balance the racial passives than offer race changes. Let's give every race a passive with % bonus to a stat, and go from there, it's not rocket science.

RedTalon · February 2015

Sounds like a good item for the crown store.

Furniture · February 2015

Could work for crown store, but racial bonuses would need more balance. Seeing thousands of the same race... no thanks.

TheShadowScout · February 2015

Simple solution - add race change to the crown store, just make it very costly. That way those who really, truly feel changing their character race is worth the cost, can do so. And the added revenue will finance more/faster content updates for the rest of us...

OrphanHelgen · February 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Simple solution - add race change to the crown store, just make it very costly. That way those who really, truly feel changing their character race is worth the cost, can do so. And the added revenue will finance more/faster content updates for the rest of us...

Since I only can give one insightful, agree or awesome, Im gonna bump this so hard that the page itself gets a bruise.

Aeratus · February 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Simple solution - add race change to the crown store, just make it very costly. That way those who really, truly feel changing their character race is worth the cost, can do so. And the added revenue will finance more/faster content updates for the rest of us...

It would help to raise revenue when people are willing to pay £300 ($460) even for a name change (i'm not kidding, see this http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/111637/character-name-change).

Emencie · February 2015

Furniture wrote: »

Could work for crown store, but racial bonuses would need more balance. Seeing thousands of the same race... no thanks.

This doesn't happen. This has never happened. For the millions of players WoW right now, the most numerous horde race is also the race with the overwhelmingly worse racial.

Humans and blood elves have been the most popular races of their factions since they both existed. and blood elves have consistently had the worst horde racial, and until WOTLK humans also had a horrible racial.

And WoW has paid faction/race changes.

Your argument is not based in fact.

TheShadowScout · February 2015

Personally I play my characters as characters, not as collection of stats. Thus the racial benefits mean very little to me, just a bonus on what I'd have played anyways. And I am pretty certain I am by far not the only one who thinks that way

Like mentioned, charge well for it, and most will be happy. Few will choose it unless they don't know where to put their crowns, or really want another race for their character a lot, and the rest will just ignore the option.

newtinmpls · February 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I play my characters as characters, not as collection of stats. Thus the racial benefits mean very little to me, just a bonus on what I'd have played anyways.

Hear hear!

There is enough weird stuff that strains the suspention of disbeleif - that would be ridiculous.

AngryNord · February 2015

Reported as spam

Aidantwab16_ESO · February 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

Reported as spam

^Daily dose of irony right here folks.

On topic, one of the first things I thought when I saw the cash shop was "wouldn't it be awesome if I could choose to change my racial passives while still playing my preferred race(appearance)" and I immediately had a massive internal struggle between my want of certain race buffs vs my hatred of purchasing what could arguably be considered advantages.

newtinmpls · February 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

Reported as spam

That comment belongs in the provisioning discussion

Spangla · February 2015

Failure to offer a race change after implementing such sweeping combat changes to all class's shows either, a complete disregard for the player base who are actually "good" at the game and enjoy min/maxing, or a complete lack of understanding of the importance of the extra % that a strong race/build synergy offers.

Simple, pick which one ZOS are - Either they are ignorant or they are ignorant lol

p.s - I am not suggesting by any means that I am "good" because i'm not - but I do try to be! It is blindingly obvious to me that to obtain the strongest possible build for a class race contributes.

Khajiit for instance has been massively nerfed since launch.

Stealth bonus modifiy reduction means stealth based builds are so ineffective now that the extra stealth damage passive is pretty pointless at end game level.

The extra crit chance passive is pretty useless now too. Thanks to crit no longer building ultimate, an increased stamina racial just flat out offers more damage and therefore the crit racial is useless.

The other passive health recovery... well.... enough said.

At launch - Stealth damage was stronger so the passive was good.

Crit was useful cause it built ultimate.

Khajiit was not such a bad racial choice, now though you'd have to be mad to choose this race. The game has changed but the racials have not changed to reflect the game - This is Madness or laziness imo.

Vizier · February 2015

You want to know why DC pop is low? Right there. DC race passives are blah with exception of Breton. They want to see populations even out give the Red Guard and Orcs something folks will actually dig. Sprinting... LOL WTF.

Aquanova · February 2015

Eliminate all racial stat bonuses! That's fair and unbiased.

Spiritreaver_ESO · February 2015

Vizier wrote: »

You want to know why DC pop is low? Right there. DC race passives are blah with exception of Breton. They want to see populations even out give the Red Guard and Orcs something folks will actually dig. Sprinting... LOL WTF.

And here i thought it was because everyone was addicted to Kate Beckinsale.

CorrieSmith wrote: »

With the removal of soft caps in patch 1.6 I feel has made quite a bit dent in the viability in certain races and builds, some of the stronger races like Imperial and Dunmer have got even stronger with their % bonuses while races with niche passives like Orc and his sprinting passive has become more of a burden with soft caps these big stat races had the advantage but you could keep up with enchants and be close to their stats but have some niche abilities which was nice, but in 1.6 if your not one of the stat powerhouse races it will be tough,

What would you guys think of being able to change your race in the crown store? for example I spent a lot of time thinking of races and builds that have become obsolete with 1.6 my high elf DK Pyromancer build has suffered the most with these changes and DK now being better as a stamina kind of style it seems so far, and I really don't want to re-roll a new character with the same class just because my racial s are useless to my build,

Thoughts?

My thoughts, pick the race you identify most with and go from there. I'm good with changing pretty much anything about your character save race and class. Might as just drop those choices from the game if they don't mean anything and don't have any consequence.

newtinmpls · February 2015

All depends on your approach. I am here to "play" a "character". Others are apparently here to "maximize a build" and "compete".

Spangla · February 2015

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

You want to know why DC pop is low? Right there. DC race passives are blah with exception of Breton. They want to see populations even out give the Red Guard and Orcs something folks will actually dig. Sprinting... LOL WTF.

And here i thought it was because everyone was addicted to Kate Beckinsale.

CorrieSmith wrote: »

With the removal of soft caps in patch 1.6 I feel has made quite a bit dent in the viability in certain races and builds, some of the stronger races like Imperial and Dunmer have got even stronger with their % bonuses while races with niche passives like Orc and his sprinting passive has become more of a burden with soft caps these big stat races had the advantage but you could keep up with enchants and be close to their stats but have some niche abilities which was nice, but in 1.6 if your not one of the stat powerhouse races it will be tough,

What would you guys think of being able to change your race in the crown store? for example I spent a lot of time thinking of races and builds that have become obsolete with 1.6 my high elf DK Pyromancer build has suffered the most with these changes and DK now being better as a stamina kind of style it seems so far, and I really don't want to re-roll a new character with the same class just because my racial s are useless to my build,

Thoughts?

My thoughts, pick the race you identify most with and go from there. I'm good with changing pretty much anything about your character save race and class. Might as just drop those choices from the game if they don't mean anything and don't have any consequence.

I'd agree with this - however if they move the goalposts so far away from the original basis on which you selected a race then this changes things.

I'm not sure why people should have to live with a choice they made that at the time was logical, and then due to unforeseeable game changes on a huge scale completely gimps your char to the point of uselessness.

AlexDougherty · February 2015

Aquanova wrote: »

Eliminate all racial stat bonuses! That's fair and unbiased.

Also boring.

I like the racial bonuses, I know some needed a tweek, but they add a flavour to your character, like my Khajiit Templar with a bonus to criticals.

Spiritreaver_ESO · February 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

You want to know why DC pop is low? Right there. DC race passives are blah with exception of Breton. They want to see populations even out give the Red Guard and Orcs something folks will actually dig. Sprinting... LOL WTF.

And here i thought it was because everyone was addicted to Kate Beckinsale.

CorrieSmith wrote: »

With the removal of soft caps in patch 1.6 I feel has made quite a bit dent in the viability in certain races and builds, some of the stronger races like Imperial and Dunmer have got even stronger with their % bonuses while races with niche passives like Orc and his sprinting passive has become more of a burden with soft caps these big stat races had the advantage but you could keep up with enchants and be close to their stats but have some niche abilities which was nice, but in 1.6 if your not one of the stat powerhouse races it will be tough,

What would you guys think of being able to change your race in the crown store? for example I spent a lot of time thinking of races and builds that have become obsolete with 1.6 my high elf DK Pyromancer build has suffered the most with these changes and DK now being better as a stamina kind of style it seems so far, and I really don't want to re-roll a new character with the same class just because my racial s are useless to my build,

Thoughts?

My thoughts, pick the race you identify most with and go from there. I'm good with changing pretty much anything about your character save race and class. Might as just drop those choices from the game if they don't mean anything and don't have any consequence.

I'd agree with this - however if they move the goalposts so far away from the original basis on which you selected a race then this changes things.

I'm not sure why people should have to live with a choice they made that at the time was logical, and then due to unforeseeable game changes on a huge scale completely gimps your char to the point of uselessness.

Actually agree with your sentiment to an extent. But it is just a chance you take when you are making a character in an MMO like ESO where players are encouraged to make multiple characters to try different aspects of the game.

My opinion would be much different if this game were an MMO like a Final Fantasy title where all character progression/advancement was designed to be around one character. In fact, in titles like those race is largely an aesthetic choice because of that reason. I had one character in FFXI for 11+years. Really couldn't see that being the case in ESO even if the servers stay on that long(not an intentional dig at ZoS just being truthful).

Spangla · February 2015

On the contrary - I would suggest that the sheer amount of time it takes you to reach max level, and with the colossal amount of time required to obtain high pvp ranks and passives, i'd say you are encouraged not to make a high number of characters - especially if you want to make a truly strong character.

Your argument works for those who are happy having 3-4 low level sub-optimal characters, however it does not work for the core group of committed players who make up the backbone of the game and are those who have supported it throughout the beta and from launch.

Race is not only an aesthetic choice in eso. I can dig out figures I have for the differences in real term damage etc that racial passives impact on, and trust me they are majorly significant, particularly concerning dark elfs and bretons.

newtinmpls · February 2015

Spangla you appear to have missed Spiritreaver's point entirely.

ESO is a new MMO. All along they have been clear that things will be changed/tweaked, and as part of that have gently suggested that a person might want to play at least one character in each of the factions. That, combined with the ES tradition of role-play and story based games, doesn't really support a one-player, one-idealized-character approach.

In game options like re-statting and re-allocation of skill points also are things that point to ES being exploration and role playing focused, and intending to be forgiving of people saying "hey, this didn't work so well, I think I'll try THAT".

This is a game that does quite well with players who enjoy the journey; the process. I know many folks who have played thousands of hours in Skyrim (the previous ES game). I don't expect this will be any different.

If you are here to race, to optimize and to be continually frustrated with "how long it takes" then I would expect that this is not the game for you.

Yes I'm sure you have figures and facts and calculations. You go with your calculational self.

I'll have fun exploring. And playing. And trust me, regardless of racials or passives or anything else, you are never going to convince my altmer in her heart of hearts that she is anything other than completely superior.

Spangla · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Spangla you appear to have missed Spiritreaver's point entirely.

ESO is a new MMO. All along they have been clear that things will be changed/tweaked, and as part of that have gently suggested that a person might want to play at least one character in each of the factions. That, combined with the ES tradition of role-play and story based games, doesn't really support a one-player, one-idealized-character approach.

In game options like re-statting and re-allocation of skill points also are things that point to ES being exploration and role playing focused, and intending to be forgiving of people saying "hey, this didn't work so well, I think I'll try THAT".

This is a game that does quite well with players who enjoy the journey; the process. I know many folks who have played thousands of hours in Skyrim (the previous ES game). I don't expect this will be any different.

If you are here to race, to optimize and to be continually frustrated with "how long it takes" then I would expect that this is not the game for you.

Yes I'm sure you have figures and facts and calculations. You go with your calculational self.

I'll have fun exploring. And playing. And trust me, regardless of racials or passives or anything else, you are never going to convince my altmer in her heart of hearts that she is anything other than completely superior.

So you are allowed to re-stat and re-allocate skills and this is fine - but when you picked a race for a reason and the reason has been removed on a whim after 9 months and countless hours of investment - that's ok is it?

Pathetic you miss the point by so far my friend. All other successful MMO's allow race changes for this reason. You can't move the goalposts by this amount and think its ok to not offer race changes.

TheShadowScout · February 2015

Some pick their race for the lore. We don't care about the stats, we play characters and accept they might not be super-effective and we may more often then not get our bum kicked in PvP and won't set any records running dungeons/trials.

Some pick their race for the stats. They desire effectiveness, usually do very well in Cyrodil, and set records. And get very vexed when some racial bonus they had been depending on for that extra 5% of -whatever- suddenly gets changed.

Point is, it doesn't hurt those who play for the lore if those who play for the stats can have a option to change their race. And if they pay for it, it helps those who play for the lore as well, by financing the developers to make new content.

Win-win.

'nuff typed.

Kragorn · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

ESO is a new MMO. All along they have been clear that things will be changed/tweaked, and as part of that have gently suggested that a person might want to play at least one character in each of the factions.

Why on Earth would they have done that when their game FORCES you to play through all the content in order to reach the level cap via PVE?

If you're suggesting they did it to somehow avoid the problem this thread is about .. not sure how it could be related to this thread but /shrug .. then playing 3 out of 9-or-10 isn't exactly avoiding it.

newtinmpls · February 2015

ShadowScout you are totally correct that if I looked at race as a purely stat-driven calculation, or possibly as an asthetic choice equivalent to the colors used at the dye stations, that it wouldn't / shouldn't matter.

Which is why I'm not running the game. I'm sure I'd alienate half the player base. Or more.

My take on if you don't like where you went with a character - well then roll up a new one. I think that the whole re-statting thing is overly generous, but I know that some folks consider it essential. I've used it and enjoyed it.

I've also re-rolled, in one instance because the color of my character's eyes wasn't working for how I pictured her. She had just gotten to 10th level. I think I'd had her a couple of months or so.

And "all the other MMO's allow it" ... well, since my complaint about silly/ disprespectful/ obnoxious behavior (ultimates in banks, people running around naked swinging weapons & dancing and fart jokes taking up chat bandwidth) tends to be to mutter that they are acting like a 13-year old (or some days "like a 7 year old") then you can imagine my tolerance level to complaints for yet one more thing that "I should be able to get" because "THEY get it/ it's not FAIR" - which is to say .... none.

Yes, yes, you are right. I'm being intolerant and immature.

I'm okay with that.