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1.6 will create a massive divide between players...bigger than it is now
Joejudas
✭✭✭✭✭
People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
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Gemseed✭✭✭I fail to see it.
You know there will be elitists asking for a 2k+ CP healer/dps/tank though, but that's in every game.Edited by Gemseed on February 2, 2015 12:06AM4 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
Please elaborate on what you think will happen a month after 1.6 goes live ?
I personally expect that a month after 1.6 goes live that most of the players who are willing to put 5+ hours a day into progressing their characters will have a significant lead in the Champion System and will grow that lead until they cap out the champion system .0 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
Please elaborate on what you think will happen a month after 1.6 goes live ?
I personally expect that a month after 1.6 goes live that most of the players who are willing to put 5+ hours a day into progressing their characters will have a significant lead in the Champion System and will grow that lead until they cap out the champion system .
and your system wont rebalance anything...it will just be more stuff that people who dont put the time in wont get. Its not going to make anything better...its going to make it worse.3 -
RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭I completely agree with OP.
Cp would be a good idea but not the way they are now and not how zos is going to implement the system.
Of course some naive users will justify and kiss zos decisions as usual,thats why the game is getting worst every day. When seemed the sub based thing was in danger,we were trolls. Now we are trolls too. You do the math.
Edited by RazielSR on February 2, 2015 12:21AM4 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
Please elaborate on what you think will happen a month after 1.6 goes live ?
I personally expect that a month after 1.6 goes live that most of the players who are willing to put 5+ hours a day into progressing their characters will have a significant lead in the Champion System and will grow that lead until they cap out the champion system .
and your system wont rebalance anything...it will just be more stuff that people who dont put the time in wont get. Its not going to make anything better...its going to make it worse.
Not my system , I personally think the current version of the champion system on the PTS is not ready for live .
you where implying that something (probably bad) is likely to happen as soon as 1 month after 1.6 went live so please elaborate on what you think is likely to happen at that time1 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
Please elaborate on what you think will happen a month after 1.6 goes live ?
I personally expect that a month after 1.6 goes live that most of the players who are willing to put 5+ hours a day into progressing their characters will have a significant lead in the Champion System and will grow that lead until they cap out the champion system .
and your system wont rebalance anything...it will just be more stuff that people who dont put the time in wont get. Its not going to make anything better...its going to make it worse.
But don't worry. ZOS will offer "convenience items" in the cash shop for the casuals to catch up. That way they can keep up to pace with the hard core players, as long as they are willing to fork out hundreds of dollars each month to do so.3 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
Please elaborate on what you think will happen a month after 1.6 goes live ?
I personally expect that a month after 1.6 goes live that most of the players who are willing to put 5+ hours a day into progressing their characters will have a significant lead in the Champion System and will grow that lead until they cap out the champion system .
and your system wont rebalance anything...it will just be more stuff that people who dont put the time in wont get. Its not going to make anything better...its going to make it worse.
Not my system , I personally think the current version of the champion system on the PTS is not ready for live .
you where implying that something (probably bad) is likely to happen as soon as 1 month after 1.6 went live so please elaborate on what you think is likely to happen at that time
if 1.6 goes to live like it is right now....your going to lose alot of end game folks who wont be forced to put in another 500 hours to get back progression they lost playing for the last 10 months....and the causal folks will not want to put the time in required to get those cp points...so we will see xp boosts and cp boosts in the cash shop...and that will be all she wrote1 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
Please elaborate on what you think will happen a month after 1.6 goes live ?
I personally expect that a month after 1.6 goes live that most of the players who are willing to put 5+ hours a day into progressing their characters will have a significant lead in the Champion System and will grow that lead until they cap out the champion system .
and your system wont rebalance anything...it will just be more stuff that people who dont put the time in wont get. Its not going to make anything better...its going to make it worse.
But don't worry. ZOS will offer "convenience items" in the cash shop for the casuals to catch up. That way they can keep up to pace with the hard core players, as long as they are willing to fork out hundreds of dollars each month to do so.
so sad but your probably right , part of the many reasons i do not like cash shop games .2 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
Please elaborate on what you think will happen a month after 1.6 goes live ?
I personally expect that a month after 1.6 goes live that most of the players who are willing to put 5+ hours a day into progressing their characters will have a significant lead in the Champion System and will grow that lead until they cap out the champion system .
and your system wont rebalance anything...it will just be more stuff that people who dont put the time in wont get. Its not going to make anything better...its going to make it worse.
But don't worry. ZOS will offer "convenience items" in the cash shop for the casuals to catch up. That way they can keep up to pace with the hard core players, as long as they are willing to fork out hundreds of dollars each month to do so.
so sad but your probably right , part of the many reasons i do not like cash shop games .
that is my biggest worry. doing that would for real, no question about it, kill this game.0 -
kijima✭✭✭✭✭
✭People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
You can promise all you want, but you are just an end user like we all are. I get what your saying, but your promise means nothing.
We don't need to be Nostradamus to know that players will grind for CP, making the gap between them and others greater, It's a given. Very early on when the game started, the first time my old guild meet a DK VR10 Vamp in Cyrodiil that we couldn't kill 1v20 with our new VR1 veterans, many of us grinded our toons to VR10 just so we could have half of chance of being competitive. And in Cyrodiil you need to stay 'within the curve' to be competitive.
When the game changed from VR12 end game to VR14, I saw a VR14 within hours. Craglorn and Upper Craglorn were full of people grinding away.
The only thing CP will do is slow the end game race down a little, that's it. Not even sure why you posted this OP, isn't is obvious?
Edited by kijima on February 2, 2015 12:34AMBeen here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...2 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
Please elaborate on what you think will happen a month after 1.6 goes live ?
I personally expect that a month after 1.6 goes live that most of the players who are willing to put 5+ hours a day into progressing their characters will have a significant lead in the Champion System and will grow that lead until they cap out the champion system .
and your system wont rebalance anything...it will just be more stuff that people who dont put the time in wont get. Its not going to make anything better...its going to make it worse.
Not my system , I personally think the current version of the champion system on the PTS is not ready for live .
you where implying that something (probably bad) is likely to happen as soon as 1 month after 1.6 went live so please elaborate on what you think is likely to happen at that time
if 1.6 goes to live like it is right now....your going to lose alot of end game folks who wont be forced to put in another 500 hours to get back progression they lost playing for the last 10 months....and the causal folks will not want to put the time in required to get those cp points...so we will see xp boosts and cp boosts in the cash shop...and that will be all she wrote
I personally do not want to see any of that kind of stuff in the cash shop , and I agree that some of the hardcore players (unknown number of them) will leave while many of the casual players will stick around longer but many of them will leave when they see that the rate of progress in the champion system is so slow. this is based off what I have seen on the PTS and the forums.0 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭People will grind cp if you put it behind a 4 or 5 hour wall or a hundred hour wall. You know who wont grind that exp. The people you seem so keen to "re-balance" the game to please. The only people this patch helps are casual gamers and the only people this patch hurts are the hardcore players. Only in the short term though....after a month your going to get a bigger imbalance than you have now. i promise you that.
You can promise all you want, but you are just an end user like we all are. I get what your saying, but your promise means nothing.
We don't need to be Nostradamus to know that players will grind for CP, making the gap between them and others greater, It's a given. Very early on when the game started, the first time my old guild meet a DK VR10 Vamp in Cyrodiil that we couldn't kill 1v20 with our new VR1 veterans, many of us grinded our toons to VR10 just so we could have half of chance of being competitive. And in Cyrodiil you need to stay 'within the curve' to be competitive.
When the game changed from VR12 end game to VR14, I saw a VR14 within hours. Craglorn and Upper Craglorn were full of people grinding away.
The only thing CP will do is slow the end game race down a little, that's it. Not even sure why you posted this OP, isn't is obvious?
because making the cp cost 400k and only being able to get them at a rate of 4 or 5 an hour will do this :
1.Playert Bcomplains the game isnt fair...so we get the cp system.
2. Player A grinds cp for 24 hours every other day...gets 5 cp a day. 30 days later that player has 75 cp.
3. Player B plays 5 hours a day and gain 1 cp. 30 days later that player has 30 cp.
4. Player B complains player A is too strong, just like it is right now.
This isnt going to rebalance anything. Its a distraction to stale for more time to develop content.Edited by Joejudas on February 2, 2015 12:40AM1 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭and dont try the " oooo but its dimishing returns" thing either. i have tested it its not that diminishing.Edited by Joejudas on February 2, 2015 12:42AM0
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Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It will be between the people who are willing to conform to the damage shield stack/spam meta, and the ones who refuse to adopt that build, whom shall be "removed" from PvP, and become PvE players.
at least that's how it will be for PvP.
for PvE idkEdited by Cody on February 2, 2015 12:47AM0 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭It's going to be a getting for those willing to grind and those that aren't won't have much difference because the cp system offers benefits but not gigantic unbeatable ones.
Just really [snip] ones that benefit the hardcore players and again leaves a divide between them and the casual.
How is this different than before again?
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_MichelleA on February 2, 2015 1:44AMBobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!1 -
kijima✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm still finding it hard to understand what the point of this thread is...
If it's to say that there will still be a rift between casual games and those that strive for end game, then yes.
If it's to say that it will take longer to achieve CP, yes we know this too.
What's your actual point, all I've seen you write is just plain obvious.
Obvious post is obvious.Been here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm still finding it hard to understand what the point of this thread is...
If it's to say that there will still be a rift between casual games and those that strive for end game, then yes.
If it's to say that it will take longer to achieve CP, yes we know this too.
What's your actual point, all I've seen you write is just plain obvious.
Obvious post is obvious.
Just looks like another way for the same person to create a new thread on the same topic again after just getting one shut down for the same reason.
Edited by Alphashado on February 2, 2015 3:16AM0 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭If you dont like what i post then dont read it. its important we talk about how big of a divide this is going to create. Stop defending bad decisions and start holding zos accountable for bad choices and they can fix them0
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you dont like what i post then dont read it. its important we talk about how big of a divide this is going to create. Stop defending bad decisions and start holding zos accountable for bad choices and they can fix them
In all fairness, ZoS has made a lot of bad decisions recently, but they are all debatable. I have no interest in defending ZoS right now. I'm not very happy with them either for different reasons. I am only voicing my opinion just like you are and I am not convinced this was a bad decision.
But creating multiple threads about the same topic will only result in the mods either closing it or sinking it like this one is being sunk right now.
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Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭if you think the power divide is bad now...what happens in 6 months when people get the cp points and new players come in...will they nerf everthing again.0
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DanielMaxwell✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »If you dont like what i post then dont read it. its important we talk about how big of a divide this is going to create. Stop defending bad decisions and start holding zos accountable for bad choices and they can fix them
In all fairness, ZoS has made a lot of bad decisions recently, but they are all debatable. I have no interest in defending ZoS right now. I'm not very happy with them either for different reasons. I am only voicing my opinion just like you are and I am not convinced this was a bad decision.
But creating multiple threads about the same topic will only result in the mods either closing it or sinking it like this one is being sunk right now.
I seldom agree with @Joejudas but he is right about how big the power gap is going to be in the future between players under the champion system .
On the PTS I have 10 champion system points , I deleted one of my alts and started a new character to try the new starting/tutorial zone . After I placed those champion system points that zone was worse then a cakewalk . If you doubt me try it yourself , I used an imperial sorc to try that zone out and did not need to level up other then to gain class skills .
On my VR3 NB I just specced him straight weapon skills and he was still able to survive 3 on 1 encounters with minimal blocking (deliberately playing bad) .
I would imagine that players with VR14 characters would find the low level zones very boring on zone level appropriate alts due to being overpowered there .
Those same players will be the ones who will grind out as many Champion system points as fast as they can come live creating a large power gap over more casual players and new players that will make it difficult (at best) for them to catch up or even compete with these hardcore players on the PVE leaderboards or in PvP . This could lead to lower casual player numbers that will create a vicious circle as the games economy will suffer do to fewer casuals around to buy mats or itemization , and in PvP it will lead to longer que times for Cyrodil . What this will most likely cause to happen is the introduction into the cash shop of various items that will speed up CP gain including potions , and itemization .
ZOS will not reduce the XP need per CP as that would not be conducive to herding players to the cashshop.0 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »If you dont like what i post then dont read it. its important we talk about how big of a divide this is going to create. Stop defending bad decisions and start holding zos accountable for bad choices and they can fix them
In all fairness, ZoS has made a lot of bad decisions recently, but they are all debatable. I have no interest in defending ZoS right now. I'm not very happy with them either for different reasons. I am only voicing my opinion just like you are and I am not convinced this was a bad decision.
But creating multiple threads about the same topic will only result in the mods either closing it or sinking it like this one is being sunk right now.
I seldom agree with @Joejudas but he is right about how big the power gap is going to be in the future between players under the champion system .
On the PTS I have 10 champion system points , I deleted one of my alts and started a new character to try the new starting/tutorial zone . After I placed those champion system points that zone was worse then a cakewalk . If you doubt me try it yourself , I used an imperial sorc to try that zone out and did not need to level up other then to gain class skills .
On my VR3 NB I just specced him straight weapon skills and he was still able to survive 3 on 1 encounters with minimal blocking (deliberately playing bad) .
I would imagine that players with VR14 characters would find the low level zones very boring on zone level appropriate alts due to being overpowered there .
Those same players will be the ones who will grind out as many Champion system points as fast as they can come live creating a large power gap over more casual players and new players that will make it difficult (at best) for them to catch up or even compete with these hardcore players on the PVE leaderboards or in PvP . This could lead to lower casual player numbers that will create a vicious circle as the games economy will suffer do to fewer casuals around to buy mats or itemization , and in PvP it will lead to longer que times for Cyrodil . What this will most likely cause to happen is the introduction into the cash shop of various items that will speed up CP gain including potions , and itemization .
ZOS will not reduce the XP need per CP as that would not be conducive to herding players to the cashshop.
that last part. exactly. They need to take a look at this system but i think they might already be planning that booster anyways. god i hope not.0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »If you dont like what i post then dont read it. its important we talk about how big of a divide this is going to create. Stop defending bad decisions and start holding zos accountable for bad choices and they can fix them
In all fairness, ZoS has made a lot of bad decisions recently, but they are all debatable. I have no interest in defending ZoS right now. I'm not very happy with them either for different reasons. I am only voicing my opinion just like you are and I am not convinced this was a bad decision.
But creating multiple threads about the same topic will only result in the mods either closing it or sinking it like this one is being sunk right now.
I seldom agree with @Joejudas but he is right about how big the power gap is going to be in the future between players under the champion system .
On the PTS I have 10 champion system points , I deleted one of my alts and started a new character to try the new starting/tutorial zone . After I placed those champion system points that zone was worse then a cakewalk . If you doubt me try it yourself , I used an imperial sorc to try that zone out and did not need to level up other then to gain class skills .
On my VR3 NB I just specced him straight weapon skills and he was still able to survive 3 on 1 encounters with minimal blocking (deliberately playing bad) .
I would imagine that players with VR14 characters would find the low level zones very boring on zone level appropriate alts due to being overpowered there .
Those same players will be the ones who will grind out as many Champion system points as fast as they can come live creating a large power gap over more casual players and new players that will make it difficult (at best) for them to catch up or even compete with these hardcore players on the PVE leaderboards or in PvP . This could lead to lower casual player numbers that will create a vicious circle as the games economy will suffer do to fewer casuals around to buy mats or itemization , and in PvP it will lead to longer que times for Cyrodil . What this will most likely cause to happen is the introduction into the cash shop of various items that will speed up CP gain including potions , and itemization .
ZOS will not reduce the XP need per CP as that would not be conducive to herding players to the cashshop.
That's exactly why they plan on removing Vet Ranks. The Champion System in conjunction with the already existent huge gap between V1 and V14 is indeed disparaging. It has always been disparaging. In fact the difference between a V1 and V14 player is much more significant than the difference between a level capped player that has 20 CP and one that has 200.
So now envision the CS w/o Vet Ranks and it makes more sense. Remember that this is phase 3 in a 4 phase conversion.
In regards to lower level alts being uber powerful with CPs, compared to a new player, this is already happening and has been for quite some time. What I mean by that, just using myself as an example, I will make a big fat crafted set of blue and purple gear complete with 5 piece and 3-4 piece set bonus's for my alts as I level them up. I do this about once every 8-10 levels. That gear makes my alts INCREDIBLY more powerful than the average new player, especially combined with my knowledge of the game mechanics. It's very evident when I am soloing public dungeons and Dolmen at lvl 30 while watching other new players struggle and die while attempting to do the same.
I do this just to make the alt leveling grind a little faster and honestly I kinda love mowing through stuff on my alts like a mini-god lol. But thats just me and I digress. Point is that the disparity is already there. A vet player can always choose not to invest those pts on a low level character just like I can choose to equip them with white/green quest reward gear.
Edited by Alphashado on February 2, 2015 4:41AM0 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »If you dont like what i post then dont read it. its important we talk about how big of a divide this is going to create. Stop defending bad decisions and start holding zos accountable for bad choices and they can fix them
In all fairness, ZoS has made a lot of bad decisions recently, but they are all debatable. I have no interest in defending ZoS right now. I'm not very happy with them either for different reasons. I am only voicing my opinion just like you are and I am not convinced this was a bad decision.
But creating multiple threads about the same topic will only result in the mods either closing it or sinking it like this one is being sunk right now.
I seldom agree with @Joejudas but he is right about how big the power gap is going to be in the future between players under the champion system .
On the PTS I have 10 champion system points , I deleted one of my alts and started a new character to try the new starting/tutorial zone . After I placed those champion system points that zone was worse then a cakewalk . If you doubt me try it yourself , I used an imperial sorc to try that zone out and did not need to level up other then to gain class skills .
On my VR3 NB I just specced him straight weapon skills and he was still able to survive 3 on 1 encounters with minimal blocking (deliberately playing bad) .
I would imagine that players with VR14 characters would find the low level zones very boring on zone level appropriate alts due to being overpowered there .
Those same players will be the ones who will grind out as many Champion system points as fast as they can come live creating a large power gap over more casual players and new players that will make it difficult (at best) for them to catch up or even compete with these hardcore players on the PVE leaderboards or in PvP . This could lead to lower casual player numbers that will create a vicious circle as the games economy will suffer do to fewer casuals around to buy mats or itemization , and in PvP it will lead to longer que times for Cyrodil . What this will most likely cause to happen is the introduction into the cash shop of various items that will speed up CP gain including potions , and itemization .
ZOS will not reduce the XP need per CP as that would not be conducive to herding players to the cashshop.
That's exactly why they plan on removing Vet Ranks. The Champion System in conjunction with the already existent huge gap between V1 and V14 is indeed disparaging. It has always been disparaging. In fact the difference between a V1 and V14 player is much more significant than the difference between a level capped player that has 20 CP and one that has 200.
So now envision the CS w/o Vet Ranks and it makes more sense. Remember that this is phase 3 in a 4 phase conversion.
In regards to lower level alts being uber powerful with CPs, compared to a new player, this is already happening and has been for quite some time. What I mean by that, just using myself as an example, I will make a big fat crafted set of blue and purple gear complete with 5 piece and 3-4 piece set bonus's for my alts as I level them up. I do this about once every 8-10 levels. That gear makes my alts INCREDIBLY more powerful than the average new player, especially combined with my knowledge of the game mechanics. It's very evident when I am soloing public dungeons and Dolmen at lvl 30 while watching other new players struggle and die while attempting to do the same.
I do this just to make the alt leveling grind a little faster and honestly I kinda love mowing through stuff on my alts like a mini-god lol. But thats just me and I digress. Point is that the disparity is already there. A vet player can always choose not to invest those pts on a low level character just like I can choose to equip them with white/green quest reward gear.
Which is why I ask the question....if we are getting nerfed now....and vr ranks aren't going away....then what's to stop a nerf via 1.7 when the vr goes away. Hardcore players this update is nerfing will grind cp and get " rebalanced again when vr goes away. ZOS needs to stop hurting higher level players for the benefit of lower level players in hopes the divide will somehow get smaller....this system will only make it bigger0
