Of course it will be.. How else will they sell it? Also if you opt out to buy the DLC outright... There is always the CASH SHOP to buy those crafting items for your "Convenience"

I don't think that is in any way P2W. Every other game charges for new expansions, they aren't just given to the players.
If you want to do the new content and get the new gear drops then purchase the content or pay the sub and get it for free as long as you're subbed.

Without paying the sub now I can't play.
Without being able to play I can't win.

Therefore the game is p2w at the moment.

When 1.6 goes live you will at least have the slightest of all chaces to win.
So the game will be less p2w.

Before the B2P change, you had no content to play whatsoever if you didn't pay a sub.

Now, if you don't pay the sub, you get some content. Just not all of it and you'll have to stump up a bit more cash to see the DLCs. But it'll still be less than those who're subbing up to that point.

Isn't that standard?

It's simply not P2W on any level. It's a bonus to those who were reticent about subbing in the first place.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

No, just, no. You pay to play, but then your personal wealth does not impact your performances. Everyone is equal under the susbcription system and what differentiate players is what they do in game, not how much money they have in real life.

Of course it does. Say I only had $10 per month with a sub fee costing $15.
I couldn't afford the sub fee.
So I couldn't win just because I'm poor.

Uviryth wrote: »

A lot of mmorpg-virgins in this thread with ESO as the one that popped the cherry, eh?

Yup, seems like it.
That's the advantage and bane of having a solo games IP to create an MMO.

Look at WoW coming from Warcraft, many people just play that game but never graduated to being actuall MMO consumers. Many don't even understand how games can exist as sandboxes or even be non instanced.

Sad thing is, ESO's new direction will be what will disgust many from the MMO scene once the cash shop shenanigans become obvious.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I think people are overanalysing Pay2Win

Will you have to pay to get access to new areas? Yes, of course.
Will access to these areas make you automatically better? Um, No.
Will access to these areas give you an advantage? Probably.
Will that advantage be a huge advantage? LoL, No.

If it gives you an advantage, it is p2w, this is not over analysing things.

It's like saying killing one person is not being a murderer because there are serial killers out there.
However small the advantages will be, they will be p2w, and they will add up.

And the advantages won't remain small. The subscription will probably grow at +40% eventually, like it occured in other games. Once ZOS catches on that not many are interested in ESO+, they'll have to compensate to convince more players.
And boosters will most likely stack on the sub, and then you'll have all the other conveniences or new gear and skill lines from the DLCs.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I think people are overanalysing Pay2Win

Will you have to pay to get access to new areas? Yes, of course.
Will access to these areas make you automatically better? Um, No.
Will access to these areas give you an advantage? Probably.
Will that advantage be a huge advantage? LoL, No.

If it gives you an advantage, it is p2w, this is not over analysing things.

It's not that simple, having played a game that did F2P and Subscription at the same time (or Freemium as they call it) it never that simple, an advantage with levelling up is only a slight advantage.

Once you hit level 50 the increases become marginal, the champion systems gives a minimal increase for CPs invested (actually a lot of people will be complaining about that). So the fact a subscriber get a 10% xp bonus will be a minor issue, they get an extra CP every five days (or so), not going to be a huge growth difference.

It's not like WoW and the buy a maxed out character option, or you get better gear. It's a slight advantage, and one that will make little if any overall difference.

It's like saying killing one person is not being a murderer because there are serial killers out there.
However small the advantages will be, they will be p2w, and they will add up.

Some analogies just don't work, you would have been better saying "it's like saying your not a thief because you've only stolen one item, and others have stolen hundreds". Which is an analogy some people have used, they were idiots BTW.

And the advantages won't remain small. The subscription will probably grow at +40% eventually, like it occured in other games. Once ZOS catches on that not many are interested in ESO+, they'll have to compensate to convince more players.
And boosters will most likely stack on the sub, and then you'll have all the other conveniences or new gear and skill lines from the DLCs.

I sort of doubt the increases to the rate of growth will happen to that degree, I doubt it would ever get above 15%, because that's the cap other viable freemium games seem to hit, 20% maximum. And I've addressed this concern above, bad planning on my part, but I'm not rewriting it.

Having more skill points or better gear does not necessarily equate to having an advantage. It does indicate variety of play styles though. As awesome as having a bajillion skill points sounds, we're limited to using 10+2 ultimates at any given time, and any one who put in time would have refined their playstyles and discounted the other skills that might or might not have even been considered.

The respec option is in the game for a reason.

On the flip side of equipment, unless the new dlc gear is BOP, i suspect traders will have them available for a premium.