One of the main purposes for this round of PTS is to test how Justice system is working not how much time we are supposed to invest in farming ad nauseum for a mat.

Since rare provisioning items are not available at a grocer, your only options are to get them from writs, a drop, loot them from a free container if you find one, or steal them and later launder.

As is right now, the ratio of stealable to lootable is way out of whack. If they will not make some adjustment later for overworld lootable items not in cities this is going to be a big source of QQ and fighting. It is ridiculous to expect provisioners to be stealing on a regular basis just for the off chance the rng produces a rare mat, given the risks with said behavior.

Balance it out please.

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

Do writs? lol No thanks, maybe had writs been around before my provisioning was 50.

If your provisioner has provisioning 50 with maxed out passives (as any decent provisioner would, since it's so ridiculously easy to get there), then you get 20X the provisioning materials out of a writ compared to what you put into it, plus you get gold that can be used to buy more provisioning mats, plus you get the chance to get a recipe (which there's a good chance you already know, but you can always sell it).

You may not be getting any inspiration out of it, but it really doesn't matter. Provisioning writs give by far the best return on investment of any crafting writ - especially as the investment in time is also really low.

Here's how it works:

Each writ asks for 2 green provisioning items (1 food, 1 drink).

Each time you craft a green provisioning item it takes 2 common ingredients, so it costs you 4 common ingredients to make those 2 items.

With the passives you should already have, when you craft those items, you actually get 4 of each, but the writ only asks for 1 of each.

You keep the excess items every time you do a writ, and before long you'll start getting writs where you already have the items in your inventory, so all you have to do is go and drop them off to get your reward (which makes the writs take practically no time to complete).

The reward for a provisioning writ is always 20 ingredients (in live it's 2 batches of 10 - I don't know what it is in PTS yet, but I'm told in 1.6 there's a chance to get rare provisioning ingredients that could previously only be obtained from hirelings), some gold dependent on your level, a small amount of XP, and a chance to get a green or blue recipe (maybe a chance for a purple too? I don't know, I've only ever received green or blue).

So if each provisioning writ costs you only 4 ingredients divided by 4 (2 ingredients each for 2 items, divided by 4 because each recipe you make creates 4 servings), and returns 20 ingredients, you're getting back 20 times what you're putting into it in ingredients alone.

By choosing not to do provisioning writs at max provisioning level you're choosing to shoot yourself in the foot.

Moderator note: Posted edited per our rules on baiting.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

"It also means that you can accidentally heal another player who is in combat with guards and also get a bounty yourself. " - If that is true then it needs to be fixed in my opinion, heals are so random

That actually sounds like it might be an intentional fix to spam spell casters in busy cities. I may be wrong but I know my frames get murdered when I pop into certain towns because of everyone spamming heal...

Now it finally seems to grow into an Elder Scrolls Game. The whole theft system was an essential part of the previous games and should have been in from the beginning.
Therefor I look forward seeing it. And I'm also a provisioner, and guess what...I will just go and buy it or search for it in the game. If there would be an opt out this would just not be fair for those who don't want to play against the "law"

Soulshine wrote: »

One of the main purposes for this round of PTS is to test how Justice system is working not how much time we are supposed to invest in farming ad nauseum for a mat.

Since rare provisioning items are not available at a grocer, your only options are to get them from writs, a drop, loot them from a free container if you find one, or steal them and later launder.

As is right now, the ratio of stealable to lootable is way out of whack. If they will not make some adjustment later for overworld lootable items not in cities this is going to be a big source of QQ and fighting. It is ridiculous to expect provisioners to be stealing on a regular basis just for the off chance the rng produces a rare mat, given the risks with said behavior.

Balance it out please.

If it were more balanced I wouldn't have an issue with it really. For example even in cities in Skyrim you could find containers like barrels that had items that could be just taken and not considered theft. From what I've seen of the containers in ESO all are owned in cities and all are flagged for stealing. There needs to be some options in towns for those of us who don't want to be thieves...I don't recall joining the Theives Guild or Dark Brotherhood and I absolutely will not if/when they're put in game, its just not my thing.

I tried both the Theives Guild and Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim and they make my character go from a Dragonborn hero to a lowlife street thug who shook people down for a few septims and made her into a murderer...poor Narfi did not deserve to die, the man had lost everything. I eventually couldn't take it anymore and trashed a character I had spent hundreds of hours playing.

First off, TESO is primarily an Immersive living world set up for RP. This is not World of Warcraft. (No offense) but... If you want everything handed to you without consequence, go play a different game.

Choices in any TES game should matter, and have real effects on your character. If you don't want to steal, buy your materials (Like any law abiding citizen), or farm them yourself.

Things in a town belong to other people. It would be immersion breaking and unrealistic in a living world like TESO, for you to be able to simply loot everything (which iare supposed to belong to someone else) without consequence.

Personally, I find [snip] loads of provisioning items I have no use for ALL the time, just questing, without EVER taking a single item from a town.

Just saying.

Moderator note: Edited per our rules on cursing and profanity.

I kind of expected this. Most places to 'forage' for either loot or whatever else you hope to find is now trapped behind being a thief. So the market on stuff like recipes and motifs and such might be owned mostly by those willing to steal. I think more testing will be required though - as I have found some areas that can be looted normally in towns still.

Opting out of the Justice System is like saying you want to opt out of taking damage....

They want to add a sense of immersion in this game by making theft illegal. Imagine robbing something from someones house and then when you're in court, you say "I opted out, stealing doesn't apply to me".

It's part of the game and it'll stay that way.

Greeniewolfub17_ESO wrote: »

spryler wrote: »

No, only some of Tamriel's containers are for theft. There are still (supposed to be) lots of containers that are non-theft that still provide all the necessary mats.

To opt-out as you put it, you literally just don't steal anything. The only disadvantage is you have to watch for the red icon before you open containers.

Every town I have been in so far, EVERY container is marked as "steal from." even ones that make no sense to be marked as such.

Maybe they need to make attacking bandit camps more appealing and add some more containers to their areas =D

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

If it were more balanced I wouldn't have an issue with it really. For example even in cities in Skyrim you could find containers like barrels that had items that could be just taken and not considered theft. From what I've seen of the containers in ESO all are owned in cities and all are flagged for stealing. There needs to be some options in towns for those of us who don't want to be thieves...I don't recall joining the Theives Guild or Dark Brotherhood and I absolutely will not if/when they're put in game, its just not my thing.

I tried both the Theives Guild and Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim and they make my character go from a Dragonborn hero to a lowlife street thug who shook people down for a few septims and made her into a murderer...poor Narfi did not deserve to die, the man had lost everything. I eventually couldn't take it anymore and trashed a character I had spent hundreds of hours playing.

So you don't want to be a thief, yet...

It didn't seem that your morals were compromised when taking food items from inside houses or near merchants before the justice changes took place. Taking items from someone's house should make you question your character's moral choices whether the item is labeled as stealing or not.

Sure, ethically there were now laws in place at the time. But the laws do not change your character from hero to low life. His morals do. Why is it a problem now that the law dictates stealing is a crime?

It seems this is much more an issue of convenience than a moral problem. There should have been more of a "hassle" to get food in the first place, running around clicking crate to crate isnt very interesting or exciting gameplay. That said, there are many close delves near major cities as well as merchants and guild stores.

Don't make it out to be some moral pickle when it's really about it being a hassle.

People are really underestimating delves. Every other craft has to leave the cities to get mats. Delves hAve just as much provisioning crap as cities do!

I don't understand why many containers in dungeons count as stealing... Is some gobbo really going to run up to a local town guard complaining I stole his carrot?

Other than that I find the system to be quite entertaining. Wonderful time killer at the absolute very least.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

For those of you that do not know this yet:

There is an "opt-out" option. However, you cannot opt out of the justice system entirely. Instead, this "opt-out" option is only "disable accidental attacking of NPCs." What this means is that you can still steal stuff and get caught and have to pay your bounty. It also means that you can accidentally heal another player who is in combat with guards and also get a bounty yourself.

I knew that they would fail to think about heals in a smart way.

Malpherian wrote: »

If I kill a town guard can I loot their armor and weapons?

The guards cannot be killed.