Dear Zenimax, You promised us Spell Crafting to open the Class Systems up.....

Kraven · January 2015

Malpherian wrote: »

@Kraven
As long as they get spell-crafting in, which will finally allow us to do what they promised from the beginning which was "Play the way you want". I'll be ok with most of the other stuff taking awhile.

I think you are putting way too much weight on the spell crafting system.

Malpherian · January 2015

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

List of MMORPG games which are skill systems and not class based (Note that Skill based games may include "Classes" but they are not Restrictive and allow the slotting of ANY skill regardless of the original class you chose, they are "Open" to such a degree that what class you chose, does not matter in the slightest):

Path of Exhile
EvE Online <<< 13 years going strong this game is older then WoW.
Perpetuum <<< 7 Years Going strong (Low pop though)
Rift <<< *** Game, but people still play it 6 years after release
Asherons Call
Archeage <<<< Massive game, Loads of people play this, tons of servers.
The Repopulation <<<< Archeage in Scifi Currently in Beta
SWG (Before SOE ruined it) <<< One of the Original Classless Games, Currently Dead. Had a good run until SOE killed it though.

(Several Indie Games, too many to list some of which are now AAA Titles).

But yea that's just a small sampling. There are a ton of them.

Apparently you have never played Rift or Archeage. Those are pure class based systems and the abilities available to you are limited by your choice of classes.

I played Archeage for a long time actually, I was a Land Baron on Salphira, Haranya side.

You get to choose 3 trees at a time, with tons of skills in them and can switch out any of those trees at any time you want on the fly, for other trees and other skills (Something like 25 trees and 250-350 skills). (Same is true for the Rift Skill Lines).

So yes, They are an "Open" Skill system. In TESO, You CAN'T do any of that once you pick your class, your done. TESO is more like WoW then any other game. (Like wow before Dual Class's that is like back in 2005).

Malpherian · January 2015

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

The "Classes" and their limitations and requirement to re-roll a character, was the reason the masses didn't sub after beta and the reason the release utterly flopped.

Bovine excrement.

The reason a lot of us stopped playing was because it was an unfinished game. It had hardly anything to do with the classes.

Missing guilds (Dark Brotherhood and Thieves), buggy content, lack of auction house (some people quit over it, can't say I blame them i've never bought anything off another player due to lack of that basic feature), constant nerfs to classes (Ebonheart lost a couple of guilds due to some nerfs, one of the guilds moved to ArcheAge) etc etc. Some people left because VR ranks were grindy and expected them to do content they didn't like (it was one of the 2 reasons I quit originally. I hate AD zones with a passion and my Daggerfall character was sent there when it hit VR1 so I abandoned it but lost any motivation to level an alt knowing i'd have to do it eventually). Some people left because they were bored (and this was the second reason I left).

Some people love the game and for that i'm grateful to them, no sarcasm. I think the game has potential but I wasn't prepared to wait for it when I have other games I also play that I enjoyed more. Without the people that love this game it wouldn't have had a chance and that would have been a shame.

That said, I don't recall a single person quitting because of spell crafting.

We asked for it but a hell of a lot of us weren't bothered about waiting.

One missing feature did not cause people to leave. It was a combination of a few things.

I never said it was the only reason. I said it was one of the main reasons. It was the foremost complaint on Redit, Gamefaq, The Beta forums etc, with 1000's of posts begging for devs to make the class system Open rather then it's current restrictive form.

When the devs went no, people left. And didn't buy.

You underestimate how important the ability to customize your characters skills and play the way you want with your iconic characters from the TES franchise is to Fans.

For future reference it is the single most important thing in the game to a TES Fan, because the game is about YOUR character. Thats how the TES franchise has always been, everything else is simply... icing on the cake

It is the Number 1 thing in those games, the sandbox is a given, But in TES your "CHARACTER" is EVERYTHING. Any true fan knows this. You frack up a players ability to have the character they want, with the skills they want, you lose the player. Period.

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

I suppose when you operate under the principal that you can make up any definition that you want and call it an "open" skill system, you can pat yourself on the back and pretend you are always correct.

In both Rift and Archeage, the spells, abilities, skills etc available to you are 100% determined by what class you select to play, just like in TESO. Anyone who plays those two games knows that to be the case. To argue otherwise is just outright silly.

Darklord_Tiberius · January 2015

Malpherian wrote: »

Since 1.6 is going to be your last big update, are you essentially saying that this required and needed feature is no longer on the table? Because if that's the case I am un-subbing right now and demanding a full refund from my CC company, for the game, and every dime I have spent on it, as you have not and are not delivering the product which you promised you would. (Which seems to be a pattern of yours).

And Yes I can do this and it will be refunded, as this was stated as a Will be added feature which was promised over 6 months ago (Among other promises that you have failed to deliver and reniged on). And has not yet been added.

So Zennimax, did you lie to your consumers about future content? Yet again? or is this going to be added after 1.6? You should also note that you are going to lose most of (the rest) of your player base if this is not added.

B2P wont even save this game then.

This game, could be great, I've always said that. The ESO franchise is Unique and open for the market, you could make billions, if only you all would get your collective heads out of your *&^holes.

* Your design principles is what caused the game to fail at launch.
* Your inability to listen to the players in alpha and Beta caused the masses not to purchase your game.
* Your continuing denial that your screwing up, is causing you even more damage.

DO NOT, fail. In this. Or the next game you release will flop before it even makes it off the shelf. DO NOT become another EA.

@Malpherian, they said months ago it was a feature they plan to add to the game, if you would pay attention to their time line, you would know it is still a ways off. The Champion Point system, the Justice System, the Dark brotherhood and thieves guild, the Imperial City and a few other things were all mentioned to come before Spell crafting.

Your argument is invalid due to non-factual information.

Obviously, you do care to pay close enough attention to detail to understand that. Your post is so bad, I think I lost brain cells reading this rubbish. The fact you mention your CC company and claim you will get your money back really shows your immaturity. You gave me a solid LOL with that statement.

Lastly, this game is doing just fine. I just finished reading the Patch notes and I have to say, I am very excited to see these changes. Combat in PvP is going to change immensely, which is going to be nice for those of us that love to theorycraft, something I am sure you have no idea what that is.

The reason 1.6 will save this game is because they are addressing the core fundamentals of this game and that is FAR more important than some minor spell crafting update. Clearly, this must be your first MMO, so please leave your childish attitude off the forums so we can discuses topics with actual substance.

Malpherian · January 2015

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Since 1.6 is going to be your last big update, are you essentially saying that this required and needed feature is no longer on the table? Because if that's the case I am un-subbing right now and demanding a full refund from my CC company, for the game, and every dime I have spent on it, as you have not and are not delivering the product which you promised you would. (Which seems to be a pattern of yours).

And Yes I can do this and it will be refunded, as this was stated as a Will be added feature which was promised over 6 months ago (Among other promises that you have failed to deliver and reniged on). And has not yet been added.

So Zennimax, did you lie to your consumers about future content? Yet again? or is this going to be added after 1.6? You should also note that you are going to lose most of (the rest) of your player base if this is not added.

B2P wont even save this game then.

This game, could be great, I've always said that. The ESO franchise is Unique and open for the market, you could make billions, if only you all would get your collective heads out of your *&^holes.

* Your design principles is what caused the game to fail at launch.
* Your inability to listen to the players in alpha and Beta caused the masses not to purchase your game.
* Your continuing denial that your screwing up, is causing you even more damage.

DO NOT, fail. In this. Or the next game you release will flop before it even makes it off the shelf. DO NOT become another EA.

@Malpherian, they said months ago it was a feature they plan to add to the game, if you would pay attention to their time line, you would know it is still a ways off. The Champion Point system, the Justice System, the Dark brotherhood and thieves guild, the Imperial City and a few other things were all mentioned to come before Spell crafting.

Your argument is invalid due to non-factual information.

Obviously, you do care to pay close enough attention to detail to understand that. Your post is so bad, I think I lost brain cells reading this rubbish. The fact you mention your CC company and claim you will get your money back really shows your immaturity. You gave me a solid LOL with that statement.

Lastly, this game is doing just fine. I just finished reading the Patch notes and I have to say, I am very excited to see these changes. Combat in PvP is going to change immensely, which is going to be nice for those of us that love to theorycraft, something I am sure you have no idea what that is.

The reason 1.6 will save this game is because they are addressing the core fundamentals of this game and that is FAR more important than some minor spell crafting update. Clearly, this must be your first MMO, so please leave your childish attitude off the forums so we can discuses topics with actual substance.

So you know, I've beta tested every AAA MMORPG to hit the shelves in the last 15 years, as well as helped design several of them as a consultant (Though most of those were Indy titles at the time some of which have become AAA titles over the years.

What you fail to understand or comprehend about the BUSINESS SIDE dealing with consumer psychology is that a consumer is far more willing to stay with a company and put up with "Core Problems" as you put it, if their fundamental needs and wants for the Genre and type of player you are targeting is met, and if customer service is top of the line, as well as an openness for devs to take players advice. ZOS failed utterly in all of those catagories, and lost the mutli million TES follwing. Those who have been supporting the game are a majority of NoN TES fans, and those who might have played Skyrim, and some of the others and enjoyed them, but have no real history with the TES franchise, with a mix of "some" TES fans and Die hard followers (Such as myself).

TESO, was targeting the TES franchise, and it's Multi Million Following. They failed because like you, they failed to understand what this target Genre/Demographic of gamers wanted, and even when told completely ignored them.

On the game itself, 1.6 is a band aid, and not even a complete one at that. If anything "Saves" the game it will be the fact that it's going B2P. Simply because statistically Cash shops pull in more money then Subs do, and the player base will be far larger then it is now since the game will only need a minimal investment to play for life.

Vahrokh · January 2015

Malpherian wrote: »

DO NOT become another EA.

They won't. Evil EA are making some fat profits:

For the quarter, net revenue* of $1.220 billion was above our guidance of $1.140 billion. Diluted earnings per share* of $0.73 was above our guidance of $0.50.

... whereas ESO is forced to go B2P...

LionheartRichard · January 2015

Malpherian wrote: »

Since 1.6 is going to be your last big update

Stopped reading right there. I'm pretty sure your crystal ball might be cracked.

Bulldog1205 · January 2015

I'm not sure how no plans for major updates turns into the game is finished. Do you really expect them to start planning for the next big update before they've even started rolling out the current one?

Gemseed · January 2015

Malpherian. I don't want to be an A-hole, but you're coming across as extremely self-entitled and ignorant in this thread, as well as blatantly fabricating and bending the truth.

There's literally been multiple posts made in this thread wherein direct links have been given with confirmation that spell crafting is still in the works.

You claim (quite ludicrously) to have all this profound insight on MMO's (a consultant? REALLY?) but can't even seem to fathom the idea that ZOS may actually just be busy working on other projects at the moment.

There's been posts made that completely pick apart and nullify your rage, yet you seemingly ignore them in favor of quoting other ones, and quite vigorously.

To put it bluntly... You're wrong. Everyone knows it. You can stop now.

Malpherian · January 2015

Gemseed wrote: »

Malpherian. I don't want to be an A-hole, but you're coming across as extremely self-entitled and ignorant in this thread, as well as blatantly fabricating and bending the truth.

There's literally been multiple posts made in this thread wherein direct links have been given with confirmation that spell crafting is still in the works.

You claim (quite ludicrously) to have all this profound insight on MMO's (a consultant? REALLY?) but can't even seem to fathom the idea that ZOS may actually just be busy working on other projects at the moment.

There's been posts made that completely pick apart and nullify your rage, yet you seemingly ignore them in favor of quoting other ones, and quite vigorously.

To put it bluntly... You're wrong. Everyone knows it. You can stop now.

I am fully aware I misread some stuff before this post. And that such issues have been corrected, the later parts of this thread are not about what I wrote in the OP but have moved on to other subjects.