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5 Piece Heavy Tanks and their role in PvP

  • eliisra
    eliisra
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    Video: So I'm seeing yet another flappy wings- and bats spamming DK creation... Add Combat Frenzy, Mountain's Blessing, Battle Roar and it really doesn't matter what type of armor he's using with that synergy between passives and skills.

    There's currently no need for traditional tanks in PvP, besides being a short distraction in the front wasting the healers magicka pool. You cant keep aggro or taunt good players lol. You cant kill anything. There no specific tank skills in-game that allows you to protect your allies in PvP (yet). Hoping this will change a bit with 1.6.

    Using 5+ heavy gives you cheaper block and some extra armor, making you stay alive longer against blockable or physical dmg. Priceless in PvE, not so important in PvP. You're missing out on penetration(dmg), ulti gain, crit and resource management, while a lot of the dmg is either magic or non-blockable.

    People talk about PvP tanks, but if you look closer at the actual builds it's something different. More like AoE- or bomb builds with high survivability.
  • TheBucket
    TheBucket
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    CC tanks are very valuable in pvp. Just not with heavy armor atm. No you cant taunt players but you can control players.
    William Reignes
    Magic Nightblade - Rogue Bomber
    Creator of Thirsty Thief Build (Retired 1.5)
  • Sallington
    Sallington
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    Templar - all HA + Sword n' Board
    5 piece Seducer, 4 piece Magnus

    Invasion + Blazing Spear + Blazing Shield + Radiant Aura + Purifying Ritual

    Resource management really isn't a problem, and the survivabilty is real. Them Blazing Shields with 4.5-4.6k buffed HP too.
    Edited by Sallington on January 27, 2015 3:57PM
    Daggerfall Covenant
    Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
    Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
    Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
    Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||
  • Lionxoft
    Lionxoft
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    eliisra wrote: »
    Video: So I'm seeing yet another flappy wings- and bats spamming DK creation... Add Combat Frenzy, Mountain's Blessing, Battle Roar and it really doesn't matter what type of armor he's using with that synergy between passives and skills.

    There's currently no need for traditional tanks in PvP, besides being a short distraction in the front wasting the healers magicka pool. You cant keep aggro or taunt good players lol. You cant kill anything. There no specific tank skills in-game that allows you to protect your allies in PvP (yet). Hoping this will change a bit with 1.6.

    Using 5+ heavy gives you cheaper block and some extra armor, making you stay alive longer against blockable or physical dmg. Priceless in PvE, not so important in PvP. You're missing out on penetration(dmg), ulti gain, crit and resource management, while a lot of the dmg is either magic or non-blockable.

    People talk about PvP tanks, but if you look closer at the actual builds it's something different. More like AoE- or bomb builds with high survivability.

    First, I'd like to address that if a tank needs heals from your healer in PvP then he's not tanking properly or has a misstep in his/her build or mentality. In my opinion tanks should be pretty self sustaining.

    5 piece heavy players can kill but it just takes better awareness when to take advantage of it since we lack appropriate cost reductions on anything but blocking unless you use a set bonus. They aren't the most glamorous fights and they often remind me of Homer Simpson as a boxer (if you remember that episode). Heavy can have decent recovery stats though in the current game not counting constitution passive which is bugged if the tooltip is correct. I also wouldn't agree that heavy tanks lose out on damage/penetration. There are plenty of armor pen abilities/passives in the game that cut through them on their own. Also, some heavy sets have FANTASTIC weapon damage bonuses. One of the best weapon damage sets in the game is heavy.

    A lot is going to change in 1.6 but I wouldn't say that tanks in PvP are useless in the current game. Also quite a few points that you have made have already been confirmed changes in 1.6 such as heavy armor incorporating spell resist as a stat similar to armor on each piece of gear and the light armor spell resist passive being altered, blockable magic AOE/attacks, ult gain is being altered and there's also the new AvA ability "Guard".
  • technohic
    technohic
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    Sallington wrote: »
    Templar - all HA + Sword n' Board
    5 piece Seducer, 4 piece Magnus

    Invasion + Blazing Spear + Blazing Shield + Radiant Aura + Purifying Ritual

    Resource management really isn't a problem, and the survivabilty is real. Them Blazing Shields with 4.5-4.6k buffed HP too.


    Yeah, thats pretty much what needs to be in the Templar build.

    A nice thing about it that light armor "tanks" don't have is the fact that when you do not h ave blazing shields or immovable running, you still can take a snipe to the knee and still be an adventurer.
    Technohic - DC Templar
    Technohicz - DC Nightblade
    Technohix - DC Sorc
    TechDKnohic - DC DK
    Tech No Hic - DC Warden
    Necrohic - DC Necromancer
  • Gumpnstein
    Gumpnstein
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    eliisra wrote: »
    Video: So I'm seeing yet another flappy wings- and bats spamming DK creation... Add Combat Frenzy, Mountain's Blessing, Battle Roar and it really doesn't matter what type of armor he's using with that synergy between passives and skills.

    There's currently no need for traditional tanks in PvP, besides being a short distraction in the front wasting the healers magicka pool. You cant keep aggro or taunt good players lol. You cant kill anything. There no specific tank skills in-game that allows you to protect your allies in PvP (yet). Hoping this will change a bit with 1.6.

    Using 5+ heavy gives you cheaper block and some extra armor, making you stay alive longer against blockable or physical dmg. Priceless in PvE, not so important in PvP. You're missing out on penetration(dmg), ulti gain, crit and resource management, while a lot of the dmg is either magic or non-blockable.

    People talk about PvP tanks, but if you look closer at the actual builds it's something different. More like AoE- or bomb builds with high survivability.

    Yet ulti gain, resource management
    eliisra wrote: »
    Video: So I'm seeing yet another flappy wings- and bats spamming DK creation... Add Combat Frenzy, Mountain's Blessing, Battle Roar and it really doesn't matter what type of armor he's using with that synergy between passives and skills.

    There's currently no need for traditional tanks in PvP, besides being a short distraction in the front wasting the healers magicka pool. You cant keep aggro or taunt good players lol. You cant kill anything. There no specific tank skills in-game that allows you to protect your allies in PvP (yet). Hoping this will change a bit with 1.6.

    Using 5+ heavy gives you cheaper block and some extra armor, making you stay alive longer against blockable or physical dmg. Priceless in PvE, not so important in PvP. You're missing out on penetration(dmg), ulti gain, crit and resource management, while a lot of the dmg is either magic or non-blockable.

    People talk about PvP tanks, but if you look closer at the actual builds it's something different. More like AoE- or bomb builds with high survivability.

    Crit really is useless, and I actually hit pretty hard with variations of this build. 120-127 spell damage, max magic and when I run dual wield on attack bar I pick up around 13-16% whatever the number is for spell pen. As far as resource management, obviously not a problem considering I am running dual sword and board so no resto, destro to regain magic. Also another variation I run has capped weapon damage, 120 or so spell damage with the destro staff, which is the build I earned emp on thorn in heavy with which included running 3 piece dreugh king, 4 piece healer, and 5 piece seducer...

    I understand the synergy between bats and battle roar etc, but the fact remains I am in heavy building the ulti to pull those synergies off, perhaps give me a healer and id drop vamp, but again, why would a DK especially not use the cheapest and best AOE ulti in the game?

    As far as not taunting player's, you can't avoid me...I just put myself in your face and you can't just let me go wild dropping ulti's and laying u full of dot fire damage without a response, you have to deal with me. The video I uploaded in the combat/skill line forums two days ago was a 1v4 on a full enemy resource, killing two players and maintaining nearly 900dps for over 5 minutes straight solo in heavy armor. So again, I don't see any comments that can explain why HA supposedly sucks, yet everyone says it does. And even though I can log in and make a video showing off the armor any minute...I see the same responses and yet when I use it in game I see different results. Consider me confused....Am I alone in thinking that maybe we all looked over heavy and the right amount of time hasn't been put into it?
    Edited by Gumpnstein on January 27, 2015 4:23PM
  • dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

    a very skilled light armor/destruction/sword board dk is Very survivable AND and HUGE threat. they can be in the front reflecting surviving and melting face. Sure your even more survivable in heavy sword board and can tank even more 1vx but all of a sudden your not a huge threat, people can more or less ignore you while killing your dps and healers.
    I can see pugs and unorganized groups stacking up and getting tanked all the time, but when your going against tight groups that will just ignore you and take you out last, what do you contribute to the group? some roots and some ult drops?
    the popular builds contribute some of the best dps while basically still being able to tank and survive when essential.

    this vid is great, makes me want to do some testing for solo play, but, I dont see what you can contribute to a top tier group fighting another group who is willing to ignore you until the healers and top dps are dead ? dont mean to be a jerk, just curious on your thoughts. If anyone has an answer lets talk about it

    Poxheart wrote: »
    You claimed no shield stacking, but there are a number of times when something that looks like a shield appears under your health bar. What was causing that?

    Also, it's easy to tank enemy pug zergs when you've got an organized zerg behind you.

    that the damage shield version of shield charge instead of the stun version.
  • Gumpnstein
    Gumpnstein
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    this vid is great, makes me want to do some testing for solo play, but, I dont see what you can contribute to a top tier group fighting another group who is willing to ignore you until the healers and top dps are dead ? dont mean to be a jerk, just curious on your thoughts. If anyone has an answer lets talk about it

    If we are talking about small groups, and we were going to work together all the time, id stay close to my dps and healers, id use choking talons and reduce 6 enemies damage by 15%, I would drop ash cloud wherever the enemy is engaging my team, further reducing damage output by 30%, I would use engulfing flames and increase my teams damage by 10% with fire abilities, use pierce armor to reduce certain players armor and spell resistance for further damage output by my team, would prob throw in igneous shields for an AOE damage reduction to my team...and im sure there are things im not including. Me doing damage myself isn't the only way to do dps..people get caught up in what was your dps, and sometimes i say, no what was yours after i did all these things to improve yours, and that is tech added to what im actually outputting. And if I do enough damage reduction to my team, they can use all those wasted resources they put into surviving and use those to do even more dps...You can't ignore a player who is willing and capable to be in your face. You have to deal with him, or let him hinder and damage u. Just my thoughts and the way I see the game possibly being played, yet noone has their groups built around such a role from a HA support tank.

    To add, your saying your going to ignore a tank. Well then that tank just became invincible since we are just ignoring him, and if he now becomes a support player that does all I listed above? How is that not a very very good thing in a group battle?
    Edited by Gumpnstein on January 28, 2015 11:28AM
  • Pchela
    Pchela
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    Took my pve tank into cyro and it was quite fun! I've always loved tanks and to see them in cyro makes me happy. They do have a great job :)
    Varen Veleth - Ophelia Veleth
    Llunela Vedrano - Mina Veleth
    Lucy Veleth - Misery Cordia

    Zombie Death Machine PC NA Oceanic
    @aruspex
  • NotSo
    NotSo
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    I just thought up a PvP tank effect that could really mess up better players: Tank abilities that expand the casters own hitbox so other players are forced to aim at him/her if they're just trying to aim past at somebody else.
    Gar'Sol the Wanderer VR14 Khajiit Sorcerer Spellblade
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