Suggestion to ZOS re: Item Progression After Veteran Ranks Go Away

GorraShatan · January 2015

Hopefully this doesn't get lost with all the 1.6 chatter.

Anyways, I had a suggestion on how to handle item progression once veteran ranks go away, since last I heard ZOS was still working out the details of that.

My suggestion is pretty straightforward - once you hit level 50, higher tiers of gear should become unlocked as you earn more and more achievement points. So for example right now it's Calcinium for VR 1-3. So what I'm suggesting is that now Calcinium gear would be for level 50 and Achievements Points from 1-1500. Galatite would go from VR 4-6 to Achievement Points 1501-3000, and so on for other materials. In the place where you see a shield icon and the VR level on an item, you'd see the achievements icon and the achievement points requirement instead.

I'd also suggest adding an achievement that would award a reasonable amount of achievement points (50?) for every 1,000,000 xp you earn past level 50, as a way to recognize and reward people for the time they put in leveling under the existing system.

The reason I think this would be a good system is because it would allow for a wide variety of play styles, rather than forcing people into one mold or the other to advance. Fishing, crafting, exploring, doing delves, grinding, PvPing, trials - there are already a lot achievements already in place for each of these activities. I think giving people flexibility in how they advance their characters is a worthwhile goal. We should be encouraged to try each of the different systems the game has to offer, but it'd be nice to not be forced into dedicating an overwhelming time to one play style or the other. Let us advance doing the things we enjoy, whatever that may be.

It'd also avoid the need for any sort of "level cap" or equivalent. You just wouldn't have any item requirements more stringent than a certain level - say 6,000 achievement points to start. To introduce a higher tier of items, you'd just need to add items in game with a higher achievement requirement - perhaps 7,000. Or whatever.

There'd also be a lot of flexibility on how this could be implemented. How large the increments are for each category, and what the exact requirements are could be fine tuned to the devs' content. Maybe the metadata of the current toons could even be looked add, so that the average VR10 ends up with the equivalent power level after the conversion.

Thoughts?

TL;DR - once VR levels are gone, make gear requirements based on your achievements.

Solariken · January 2015

It's not my favorite solution, but I appreciate the hustle, OP. If it were somehow linked to achievements, I would rather just have the gear be somehow gated by the achievements which are specific to previous tiers of content.

So for example, you can't equip galatite gear until you've killed x number of vet dungeon bosses. And then you can't equip voidsteel until you've killed x number of vet dungeon bosses on hard mode.

I still think maybe there is an even better solution. I really want to know what ZO$ is planning.

Pausekey · January 2015

Solariken wrote: »

It's not my favorite solution, but I appreciate the hustle, OP. If it were somehow linked to achievements, I would rather just have the gear be somehow gated by the achievements which are specific to previous tiers of content.

So for example, you can't equip galatite gear until you've killed x number of vet dungeon bosses. And then you can't equip voidsteel until you've killed x number of vet dungeon bosses on hard mode.

I still think maybe there is an even better solution. I really want to know what ZO$ is planning.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if I had known it from the beginning. The problem is that there are a bunch of us vr14s running around who haven't done the group content much. I would love to, but real life hasn't given me the time. And if they made that change, then my currently well geared vr14 would take a huge step backwards.

Trust me, I like having epic gear be gated behind difficult content. But I have to admit I would be upset if they made a big change like that when it was a complete 180 flip from what they had before.

Joejudas · January 2015

Not everyone cares about completing everything for achievement points....so no .

kijima · January 2015

For someone that does mainly solo play (do run in a regular group in PvP) I've not been able to do much in Craglorn etc, so having gear tied up to group achievements would see me out of alot of my current gear I'd imagine.

Leeric · January 2015

Tied to achievement points? That's a terrible suggestion

Mettaricana · January 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

Not everyone cares about completing everything for achievement points....so no .

^totally agree im not an acheivment hunter

And this acheivment gate is the worst idea i've ever heard. if anythig it should be Champion point restricted if its not scaled down to lvl 50 X amount of champ points needed to wear higher gear but under no circumstances should it be achievement related. not everyone wants to pvp for armor and run trials just to wear the crap we already have.

TheShadowScout · January 2015

Hmmm... interesting thought. I do fear that maybe some people would find their characters unable to use the gear they worked hard to get... how many archievement points is playing through the main story worth again? How much would be needed for top tier gear? Something to think about, some people love hunting achievements, others just race through the game for PvP or endgame raids and prefer not to do all the details... both kinds have to be considered doing any such feature.

In any case, I for one would enjoy seeing some tier system to the post-50 gear, though maybe with some other sort of unlocks? Perhaps number of champion points spent? Though those being account wide may create another problem, alts getting access to the best gear as soon as they reach level 50... on the other hand, that would please some people who'd rather not play through all of cadwells silver&gold for the fifth time...? Still sounds the most workable solution to me though.

GorraShatan · January 2015

Mettaricana wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Not everyone cares about completing everything for achievement points....so no .

^totally agree im not an acheivment hunter

And this acheivment gate is the worst idea i've ever heard. if anythig it should be Champion point restricted if its not scaled down to lvl 50 X amount of champ points needed to wear higher gear but under no circumstances should it be achievement related. not everyone wants to pvp for armor and run trials just to wear the crap we already have.

The idea would be that you naturally be getting a lot of the achievements as you play. And at the worst, could simply grind XP for them, though now you'd have the option of "grinding" something else instead of just XP.

FYI though, you're actually the describing the opposite of what I intend. I'm suggesting a system where out of say 50,000 possible achievement points, you would need 6,000 to be the equivalent of VR 14. And if a new zone comes out, and they want to raise the cap on gear too, they could just make that go to 7,500 out of now a possible 60,000. Or something like that. The idea would be that you need the vast minority of achievements to get to the "cap."

Just for reference too, doing a solo, run-of-the-mill delve is worth 10 achievement points right now. Completing Hell-Ra is worth 50. You get 140 achievement points from learning all the alchemy traits for every plant. So if you don't want to do raids, you craft or fish or explore or PVP or even grind. The idea isn't to force people to do everything, quite the opposite. The idea is to free people to do what they like. I'm suggesting that the time investment to get to the equivalent of VR14 through crafting, or exploration, or grinding mobs, or PvP should be at least somewhat comparable. You wouldn't be forced to do trials or PVP, you'd just have options.

Anyways, open to ideas. I don't like the idea of having no progression post level 50, or of having it account wide either, simply because it complete guts the crafting and in game economy. Figured I'd post this as a starting point for a discussion at least.

My concern is they'll gate it on Champion Points spent on each toon, and have us doing Cadwell's Silver and Gold over and over instead. "Grinding" seems to be getting nerfed and we're being pushed more and more just to quests. I like the quests in the game, but you can only do them so much. I'd like different paths to level my toons in the future.

Would be curious to know how many achievement points people have on each of their mains. I'm at 6735 on my VR14 main, and that's with a small amount of PVP (Tyro rank) and no trials. Is that typical here? That's what I based my fictitious numbers on, and those were only intended as placeholders, but I'd be curious to see what everyone else is at.

Digiman · January 2015

GorraShatan wrote: »

Hopefully this doesn't get lost with all the 1.6 chatter.

Anyways, I had a suggestion on how to handle item progression once veteran ranks go away, since last I heard ZOS was still working out the details of that.

My suggestion is pretty straightforward - once you hit level 50, higher tiers of gear should become unlocked as you earn more and more achievement points. So for example right now it's Calcinium for VR 1-3. So what I'm suggesting is that now Calcinium gear would be for level 50 and Achievements Points from 1-1500. Galatite would go from VR 4-6 to Achievement Points 1501-3000, and so on for other materials. In the place where you see a shield icon and the VR level on an item, you'd see the achievements icon and the achievement points requirement instead.

I'd also suggest adding an achievement that would award a reasonable amount of achievement points (50?) for every 1,000,000 xp you earn past level 50, as a way to recognize and reward people for the time they put in leveling under the existing system.

The reason I think this would be a good system is because it would allow for a wide variety of play styles, rather than forcing people into one mold or the other to advance. Fishing, crafting, exploring, doing delves, grinding, PvPing, trials - there are already a lot achievements already in place for each of these activities. I think giving people flexibility in how they advance their characters is a worthwhile goal. We should be encouraged to try each of the different systems the game has to offer, but it'd be nice to not be forced into dedicating an overwhelming time to one play style or the other. Let us advance doing the things we enjoy, whatever that may be.

It'd also avoid the need for any sort of "level cap" or equivalent. You just wouldn't have any item requirements more stringent than a certain level - say 6,000 achievement points to start. To introduce a higher tier of items, you'd just need to add items in game with a higher achievement requirement - perhaps 7,000. Or whatever.

There'd also be a lot of flexibility on how this could be implemented. How large the increments are for each category, and what the exact requirements are could be fine tuned to the devs' content. Maybe the metadata of the current toons could even be looked add, so that the average VR10 ends up with the equivalent power level after the conversion.

Thoughts?

TL;DR - once VR levels are gone, make gear requirements based on your achievements.

That would destroy the game and achievements. Also Achievements are fine, they do award you access to a colour and some award skill points.

nerevarine1138 · January 2015

I'm not a fan of making achievements necessary for any central game progression. The whole point of achievements is that they're bragging points that offer fluff rewards.

I_killed_Vivec · January 2015

How about instead of achievements (which include fishing, cooking and finding Ma'iq) we use experience?

Looking at comments about why VR should be removed, most of the people wanting VR gone want to be "competitive" as soon as they reach lvl50. Competitive in PvP, able to do all of the Craglorn content, able to wear all of the best gear, take the best potions, eat the best food. Restricting access to all of this by achievements will not make these people any happier than restricting by experience. Or Champion Points for that matter.

Merlin13KAGL · January 2015

Yeah, I can see bonuses for achievements (they give dyes now, which is something, I guess.

I'm not really interested in fishing for hours to unlock the next gear set...Sorry.

They're supposed to be achievements, not requirements.

Iago · January 2015

Look if they did that I would lose my gear that I am currently using.... I would prefer not to have that happen although I can appreciate where you are coming from. I am certain they have something in mind to take care of gear progression because otherwise everyone would jump strait to voidstone once they hit level 50.

Iago · January 2015

After reading he patch notes its safe to assume Vet Ranks stay

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

BIG CHANGES / UPDATES / NEW FEATURES

Champion System
The Champion System is a new progression and development system that is designed to allow even more choice in how you build your high-level characters.

The Champion System is available once you have one Veteran Rank 1 character on your account,and provides significant enhancements to character development while you are progressing through Veteran Ranks.

Champion Points are account wide. When one Veteran Rank character on an account earns a Champion Point, every character on the account will receive a point to use, regardless of level.
Only Veteran Rank characters can earn points to be spent in the Champion System, but all characters on your account can spend those points individually.

The account-wide pool of points is not shared across characters. Each character on the account has their own unique pool that can be spent in a way that’s tailored to that specific character.

Champion Points are earned by gaining experience; any Veteran Rank character can earn Champion Points by doing anything in the game that generates experience.
This includes questing, exploring dungeons, conquering Cyrodiil, braving the challenges of Trials and Dragonstar Arena, clearing delves in search of loot, or just randomly killing monsters for fun and profit.

A new mechanic, Enlightenment, has also been introduced to the game.
Enlightenment slowly accumulates on your account at a fixed rate, regardless of the character you are playing, as long as your account has at least one Veteran Rank character.

Anything that normally awards experience will also give you bonus experience as long as you have not used up your Enlightenment.
This only applies towards Champion Point progression.

This bonus experience does not apply towards increasing your level, Veteran Rank, or improving any weapon skills.

As experience is earned and bonus Champion experience is applied, your Enlightenment will get used up. Once there is no more Enlightenment left, experience earned will count towards Champion point progression at the normal rate.

Champion Points can be spent in nine different constellations that are arranged into three groups: the Warrior, the Mage, and the Thief.
Each point that is unlocked will be for one of those three groups.

A point that is earned in the Warrior can only be spent in one of the three constellations that serve the Warrior. The same goes for the Mage and the Thief.

Every point that you can spend in a constellation will rotate with each earned point.
For example, if the last point earned was in the Thief, then the next point will be in the Mage, and the next in the Warrior, then the circle will begin again.

While there are many abilities in each of the three constellation groups, the groups each have a general theme.
Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.

Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.

Points spent in the Mage will enhance Magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing.

A maximum of 100 points can be spent per star in each constellation.
The first point in each star will grant the largest bonus, and each subsequent point in that star will offer a slightly smaller bonus.

More powerful passive bonuses unlock once 10 points, 30 points, 75 points, and 120 points have been spent in a constellation. In all, there are 36 of these unlockable bonuses that you can earn over time. These bonus include some of the most powerful enhancements available via the Champion System, including:
Determination: Gain a damage shield when using a potion.

War Mount: Mounts do not lose stamina when you are not in combat.

Arcane Well: Killing an enemy causes them to explode and grant magicka to nearby allies.

Last Stand: Earn more Ultimate when below 20% health.

Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.

It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.

Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.

A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.

If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).

Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.

The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.

The Champion system seems dependent on the Vet Ranks now

GorraShatan · February 2015

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

How about instead of achievements (which include fishing, cooking and finding Ma'iq) we use experience?

Looking at comments about why VR should be removed, most of the people wanting VR gone want to be "competitive" as soon as they reach lvl50. Competitive in PvP, able to do all of the Craglorn content, able to wear all of the best gear, take the best potions, eat the best food. Restricting access to all of this by achievements will not make these people any happier than restricting by experience. Or Champion Points for that matter.

Yah, I'll be honest - I'm fine with the current system. Others don't seem to be though.

My concern with it being Champion Points is they seem to be transferable between toons? And that you can even be "respected" and drained from one toon to another? Or am I mistaken here... I haven't been on the PTS much yet.

Exstazik · February 2015

YES !yes! yes!
I want "big pink unicorn wedding armour" for my achievements