Trial Bosses resistances

Carter_DC · January 2015

I just heard that trial bosses don't have any armor nor elemental resistance, can anyone confirm that ?

in that case, what's the point of perma elemental drain on bosses ?

Valymer · January 2015

You get magicka back when using elemental spells to attack mobs affected by Elemental Drain. So you basically don't have to use Spell Symmetry for sustain

Carter_DC · January 2015

well, i kinda knew that already...
Still doesn't corfirm if trial bosses actually have any armor or elemental resistance at all or are they only a big bag full of HP ?

Islyn · January 2015

Yeah and since most people have some kind of ele weapon - well. My question would be do ele damage Enchants count as well as ele staves, etc?

Islyn · January 2015

Also - one peeve I have is when someone says they are running ele drain/ss/pol/cp and you never see it go off. Is it just that I am not seeing the animations or are they more likely sleepin on the job?

Aeratus · January 2015

Carter_DC wrote: »

I just heard that trial bosses don't have any armor nor elemental resistance, can anyone confirm that ?

This is not correct. Trial bosses do have armor, spell, and elemental resistance.

There are some mobs out that that have 0 spell and elemental resist, but as far as I can tell, all trial bosses have resist.

DeLindsay · January 2015

Aeratus wrote: »

Carter_DC wrote: »

I just heard that trial bosses don't have any armor nor elemental resistance, can anyone confirm that ?

This is not correct. Trial bosses do have armor, spell, and elemental resistance.

There are some mobs out that that have 0 spell and elemental resist, but as far as I can tell, all trial bosses have resist.

They have VERY little value of Spell Resistance and Armor and ZoS is aware of this and is wanting to fix it for 1.6. This was brought up recently (past 2 months) in something I can't put my finger on (Live Stream or web comment). Needless to say ArPen and SPen are nearly useless in PvE atm. People can say all day long they swear that Tanks taking Pierce Armor over Ransack increases their DPS by X% but it doesn't. Same thing can be said for Elemental Drain. As it stands right now on Live servers Elemental Drain is for nothing more than Magicka regen.

Aeratus · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Carter_DC wrote: »

I just heard that trial bosses don't have any armor nor elemental resistance, can anyone confirm that ?

This is not correct. Trial bosses do have armor, spell, and elemental resistance.

There are some mobs out that that have 0 spell and elemental resist, but as far as I can tell, all trial bosses have resist.

They have VERY little value of Spell Resistance and Armor and ZoS is aware of this and is wanting to fix it for 1.6. This was brought up recently (past 2 months) in something I can't put my finger on (Live Stream or web comment). Needless to say ArPen and SPen are nearly useless in PvE atm. People can say all day long they swear that Tanks taking Pierce Armor over Ransack increases their DPS by X% but it doesn't. Same thing can be said for Elemental Drain. As it stands right now on Live servers Elemental Drain is for nothing more than Magicka regen.

The debuffs are very significant to anyone who is interested in dps optimization.

As shown in one of the tests in the Tamriel Foundry forum, the damage increase from no debuff to full debuff (ED and Reaper's Mark) on Mammoths increased from 236 to 270, which is almost 15%.

With elemental drain alone, damage increased by 6.7%. A 6.7% increase is more than the dps you gain from wearing a 3 piece Aether set (which is 8% crit), so if you don't like elemental drain, might as well just ditch that Aether set as well.

In normal dungeon runs, it is very noticable to me whether the tank is using pierce armor or ransack.

DeLindsay · January 2015

Aeratus wrote: »

The debuffs are very significant to anyone who is interested in dps optimization.

As shown in one of the tests in the Tamriel Foundry forum, the damage increase from no debuff to full debuff (ED and Reaper's Mark) on Mammoths increased from 236 to 270, which is almost 15%.

With elemental drain alone, damage increased by 6.7%. A 6.7% increase is more than the dps you gain from wearing a 3 piece Aether set (which is 8% crit), so if you don't like elemental drain, might as well just ditch that Aether set as well.

In normal dungeon runs, it is very noticable to me whether the tank is using pierce armor or ransack.

They would be if NPC's had significant Spell Resistance and Armor, but right now they do not and ZoS has said as much. I will work on trying to figure out where ZoS said it and link it to this thread. My search-mojo has been weak lately so bear with me. It's also been tested numerous times by various Players to show the exact opposite of what Tamriel Foundry has found. So obviously results are not adding up correctly. If only we had a gaming company that was 100% Transparent with game stats/mechanics and gave Players a proper way to test abilities, alas one can wish right.

Aeratus · January 2015

Whether it's significant or not is your own opinion.

I've given the hard numbers, and the reader will judge as to whether it is significant or not for his own gameplay.

To me, even a 5% difference in dps is significant (and noticeable), so the effect of debuffs is very significant.

(Also, credit for the numbers I've posted above goes to http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/nb-destro-dps-guide-1-4-5/#post-552437)

Tankqull · January 2015

Carter_DC wrote: »

well, i kinda knew that already...
Still doesn't corfirm if trial bosses actually have any armor or elemental resistance at all or are they only a big bag full of HP ?

all mobs in this game have nearly no resitances and armor values thus debuffs for those values are completly useless in PVE (if they do not have additional effects)

Moezilla · January 2015

Aeratus wrote: »

Whether it's significant or not is your own opinion.

I've given the hard numbers, and the reader will judge as to whether it is significant or not for his own gameplay.

To me, even a 5% difference in dps is significant (and noticeable), so the effect of debuffs is very significant.

(Also, credit for the numbers I've posted above goes to http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/nb-destro-dps-guide-1-4-5/#post-552437)

Agreed.

DeLindsay wrote: »

They have VERY little value of Spell Resistance and Armor and ZoS is aware of this and is wanting to fix it for 1.6. This was brought up recently (past 2 months) in something I can't put my finger on (Live Stream or web comment). Needless to say ArPen and SPen are nearly useless in PvE atm. People can say all day long they swear that Tanks taking Pierce Armor over Ransack increases their DPS by X% but it doesn't. Same thing can be said for Elemental Drain. As it stands right now on Live servers Elemental Drain is for nothing more than Magicka regen.

Unless you have proof this is all hear/say.

Shinra · January 2015

1. It's true that NPC only have little resistances. But they DO have some and a removal of those few points will increase DPS. 6,7 % sounds reasonable, actually.

2. Thinking that players can get resistances up to 50 %, the resistance of NPC is freakin low, and ZOS indeed said that they will increase those values for 1.6.

Castle · January 2015

Armor and Spell Resistance on MOBs is set pretty low on the LIVE servers, being ~10% mitigation at a given level.

For patch 1.6 we're going to be changing this to help make abilities which debuff these stats more meaningful. The base mitigation a Mob will have due to Armor or Spell Resistance will be increased to 18%. Additionally, in general, Mage type mobs will have twice the base Spell Resistance while Tank type mobs have twice the base Armor value. Skirmisher type mobs had 1/3 higher value than base in both. Specific mobs, particularly "Boss" style mobs, may have their own individual modifiers and can have more or less mitigation.

Hope this info helps!

EDIT: Typo

Carter_DC · January 2015

i could really see that elem drain actually works on random mobs.. but what about trial bosses ?
my concern is not really that it's effective for me, but rather for my fellow teammates.

Merlin13KAGL · January 2015

Islyn wrote: »

Also - one peeve I have is when someone says they are running ele drain/ss/pol/cp and you never see it go off. Is it just that I am not seeing the animations or are they more likely sleepin on the job?

It's glitchy sometimes. You should see the spiralling elements around the target and should see the debuff if you hover (assuming you have FTC or similar)

Regarding the weakness, I assume it had the effect of increased damage by those elements (shock, fire, frost), even if they started with zero resist - similar to the way vamps take additional fire damage.

I gather you get a 40% reduction of zero if such is the case, instead?

Islyn · January 2015

Yes have ftc and yes I know how the effect appears - but I do not see it as often as I feel it should be present - nor as often as when I myself cast them (ele on my nb the others on my templar)

Joejudas · January 2015

In the past I used a crushing glyph on my main weapon with Night Mother 5 trait...and when I switched that glyph to a fire glyph my dps went up quite a bit on trials bosses. Hope that helps a bit.

DeLindsay · January 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

In the past I used a crushing glyph on my main weapon with Night Mother 5 trait...and when I switched that glyph to a fire glyph my dps went up quite a bit on trials bosses. Hope that helps a bit.

Yup and it's because of this:

Castle wrote: »

Armor and Spell Resistance on MOBs is set pretty low on the LIVE servers, being ~10% mitigation at a given level.

MANY Players have tested this ad nauseam and found what ZoS just said above to be fairly accurate. And It also shows that adding an additional 40% debuff to the already 38% SPen that Stick & Skirt has (an additional 2.48% SPen on a 10% value) is nearly useless. Still ZoS only increasing them to 18% (average) and 36% Role dependent is kind of weak if you ask me. ALL Boss type NPC's should always be at hard cap of 50% for their particular Role. I.E. the Mage in AA should be at 50% Spell Resistance with negligible Armor where the Warrior in HR should be at 50% Armor with negligible Spell Resistance, etc.

EDIT: People also need to understand how SPen and ArPen works in ESO. It's not cumulative, it's multiplicative. What that means is if an enemy has 10% Armor and you have 75% ArPen you are NOT negating their Armor, you are reducing their 10% by 75% leaving them with 2.5% Armor. If you add an additional 40% ArPen debuff, you are then reducing that 2.5% to 1.5%. You can NEVER negate a Player or NPC's Spell Resistance or Armor entirely.

Aeratus · January 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

EDIT: People also need to understand how SPen and ArPen works in ESO. It's not cumulative, it's multiplicative. What that means is if an enemy has 10% Armor and you have 75% ArPen you are NOT negating their Armor, you are reducing their 10% by 75% leaving them with 2.5% Armor. If you add an additional 40% ArPen debuff, you are then reducing that 2.5% to 1.5%. You can NEVER negate a Player or NPC's Spell Resistance or Armor entirely.

Penetration isn't the same as debuff. The stacking of debuffs with other debuffs is additive, not multiplicative.

The NB's mark target skill is a 75% debuff, rather than penetration. So mark target together with pierce armor will bring down spell resist to zero.

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2015

Bosses having armor and spell resist is why a Sharpened staff (increase armor and spell penetration) does more DPS than a Precise staff (increase crit chance).

itsBishop · January 2015

Islyn wrote: »

Yes have ftc and yes I know how the effect appears - but I do not see it as often as I feel it should be present - nor as often as when I myself cast them (ele on my nb the others on my templar)

The effects don't always show. Same thing happens to me with PoTL and Ele Drain (most frequently) and Siphon spirit (less often, but still gets lost in the chaos with other effects).