Worried that you might have to spend more than $15 a month on B2P cash shop? Don't...
eisberg
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http://fortune.com/2015/01/13/sony-free-play-video-games/
The average gamer world wide spend $43.96 per year on MMOs that don't require a subscription, and that "Whales" only make up 5% of those spending money.
In order for ESO to be successful in the market, they need to make sure they stay around the average as well and make sure people feel like they are progressing and having fun.
The average gamer world wide spend $43.96 per year on MMOs that don't require a subscription, and that "Whales" only make up 5% of those spending money.
In order for ESO to be successful in the market, they need to make sure they stay around the average as well and make sure people feel like they are progressing and having fun.
3
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ashlee17✭✭✭✭It just means that we miss out on things and have to work harder then whales. Wow I'm so relieved.
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Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭http://fortune.com/2015/01/13/sony-free-play-video-games/
The average gamer world wide spend $43.96 per year on MMOs that don't require a subscription, and that "Whales" only make up 5% of those spending money.
In order for ESO to be successful in the market, they need to make sure they stay around the average as well and make sure people feel like they are progressing and having fun.
Their statistics are flawed and it's SOE reporting as well. One of SOE's titles reports all accounts as "Active Players".
Smed has always found pride in stating more or less that his games are fruitful cheap pieces of garbage.1 -
eisberg✭✭✭The point is, Whales make up such a insignificant amount, that the industry doesn't cater around them. The non P2W Free to play MMOs that I have played, none of them came to close to needing to be a whale to compete or even progress through the game, and at best the Whales progressed 10% faster and maybe have 10% more gold, which really is an insignificant amount as well.2
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Rott✭✭Lol smedly. He Killed SWG and was caught in a blatant lie regarding P2W supply drops containg weapons in H1Z1.
RIP Prispar: master creature handler, riflemen and noob force sensitive.Edited by Rott on January 24, 2015 2:20AM2 -
kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.0 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.3 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.----
Murray?2 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.
Who's comparing it to other titles other than yourself? The subscription was touted as a "Premium Service" offering frequent content updates however that service has been diminished due to the relaxing nature of " It’s time to let the game breathe a little".1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.
Who's comparing it to other titles other than yourself? The subscription was touted as a "Premium Service" offering frequent content updates however that service has been diminished due to the relaxing nature of " It’s time to let the game breathe a little".
And now you can opt to not pay a monthly fee if you don't think that it's worth it. You'll even be able to play the game. Isn't that fantastic?----
Murray?2 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.
Who's comparing it to other titles other than yourself? The subscription was touted as a "Premium Service" offering frequent content updates however that service has been diminished due to the relaxing nature of " It’s time to let the game breathe a little".
And now you can opt to not pay a monthly fee if you don't think that it's worth it. You'll even be able to play the game. Isn't that fantastic?
I'd rather pay a monthly sub and get frequent content updates instead of paying a monthly sub with less frequent updates.Edited by Lionxoft on January 24, 2015 2:51AM3 -
eisberg✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.
Who's comparing it to other titles other than yourself? The subscription was touted as a "Premium Service" offering frequent content updates however that service has been diminished due to the relaxing nature of " It’s time to let the game breathe a little".
And now you can opt to not pay a monthly fee if you don't think that it's worth it. You'll even be able to play the game. Isn't that fantastic?
I'd rather pay a monthly sub and get frequent content updates instead of paying a monthly sub with less frequent updates.
This game had less updates then Guild Wars 2 in a year, and Guild Wars 2 didn't have a subscription. Having a subscription or no subscription doesn't seem to to correlate to the frequency of updates.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.
Who's comparing it to other titles other than yourself? The subscription was touted as a "Premium Service" offering frequent content updates however that service has been diminished due to the relaxing nature of " It’s time to let the game breathe a little".
And now you can opt to not pay a monthly fee if you don't think that it's worth it. You'll even be able to play the game. Isn't that fantastic?
I'd rather pay a monthly sub and get frequent content updates instead of paying a monthly sub with less frequent updates.
This game had less updates then Guild Wars 2 in a year, and Guild Wars 2 didn't have a subscription. Having a subscription or no subscription doesn't seem to to correlate to the frequency of updates.
LOL
And how many end game raids or zones were released in GW2 during last year?
How many dungeons even?
Oh right, you got 4-5 quests that were completed in less than a day each.
Please don't ever bring GW2 as an example when talking about content updates, unless you want to make a point at how *** something is.
That said, there's a reasonable chance ESO will have even less content updates than GW2 as a result of going B2P4 -
eisberg✭✭✭Guild Wars 2 has had better content updates and more frequent than any other MMO I have played, and that is including this game and even WoW. Played WoW for a little over a year from 2005 to 2006, and they made very little content updates for the non raiders. Pushing out Raiding content that a very small minority of players will actually get to play through is basically the same as not making content for everybody else.
A WoW developer, shortly after the last raid before the first expansion released, stated that only 15% of the player base have actually entered Molten Core, and even less than that have actually finished it. Considering you had to do Molten Core to do the next raid, and that continued on through the other raids after that, should really tell you how little those raid content update really meant to the vast majority of the player base. It might as well as not existed.5 -
Dave2836✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.
I'm always amazed by how the public views lab control groups to be indicative of field applications. The lab is a controlled environment with foresight and planning. Thats where we can expect unicorns and rainbows. The mass public has to understand the real world applications is where things do go wrong and schedules are broken. There has never been one product ever that was made and worked flawlessly to specification. Even WoW with its impressive revenue and ginormous parent company doesn't release content in a timely, or even frequently punctual manner.0 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.
Asherons Call one of the first and best MMO's ever made came out with new content monthly..
Also DEV's controlled world bosses some times to make things interesting. So yes companies can if they want to.
Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I'm sorry, that was a joke, right?The point is, Whales make up such a insignificant amount, that the industry doesn't cater around them. The non P2W Free to play MMOs that I have played, none of them came to close to needing to be a whale to compete or even progress through the game, and at best the Whales progressed 10% faster and maybe have 10% more gold, which really is an insignificant amount as well.
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Ohioastro✭✭✭✭Guild Wars 2 has had better content updates and more frequent than any other MMO I have played, and that is including this game and even WoW. Played WoW for a little over a year from 2005 to 2006, and they made very little content updates for the non raiders. Pushing out Raiding content that a very small minority of players will actually get to play through is basically the same as not making content for everybody else.
A WoW developer, shortly after the last raid before the first expansion released, stated that only 15% of the player base have actually entered Molten Core, and even less than that have actually finished it. Considering you had to do Molten Core to do the next raid, and that continued on through the other raids after that, should really tell you how little those raid content update really meant to the vast majority of the player base. It might as well as not existed.
Virtually everyone else who has played GW2 completely disagrees with you. You may like that game, but people here have documented the update schedule (the living story has been minimal); the intrusive nature of the cash shop; and a lot of other negatives. It's not Archeage level god-awful, but it's not great either. And that's the best case. The worst case? Archeage...3 -
eisberg✭✭✭Guild Wars 2 has had better content updates and more frequent than any other MMO I have played, and that is including this game and even WoW. Played WoW for a little over a year from 2005 to 2006, and they made very little content updates for the non raiders. Pushing out Raiding content that a very small minority of players will actually get to play through is basically the same as not making content for everybody else.
A WoW developer, shortly after the last raid before the first expansion released, stated that only 15% of the player base have actually entered Molten Core, and even less than that have actually finished it. Considering you had to do Molten Core to do the next raid, and that continued on through the other raids after that, should really tell you how little those raid content update really meant to the vast majority of the player base. It might as well as not existed.
Virtually everyone else who has played GW2 completely disagrees with you. You may like that game, but people here have documented the update schedule (the living story has been minimal); the intrusive nature of the cash shop; and a lot of other negatives. It's not Archeage level god-awful, but it's not great either. And that's the best case. The worst case? Archeage...
Considering that roughly 2 million people are playing Guild Wars 2 (based their ARPU and quarterly reports), your first sentence is automatically incorrect. The cash shop is far from being intrusive. There has been 43 updates (living story, new zones, dungeons, and other features added) in the 29 months that Guild Wars 2 went live, 28 of those updates included living story. Sounds like these people who have been saying things actually haven't played the game at all.3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guild Wars 2 has had better content updates and more frequent than any other MMO I have played, and that is including this game and even WoW. Played WoW for a little over a year from 2005 to 2006, and they made very little content updates for the non raiders. Pushing out Raiding content that a very small minority of players will actually get to play through is basically the same as not making content for everybody else.
A WoW developer, shortly after the last raid before the first expansion released, stated that only 15% of the player base have actually entered Molten Core, and even less than that have actually finished it. Considering you had to do Molten Core to do the next raid, and that continued on through the other raids after that, should really tell you how little those raid content update really meant to the vast majority of the player base. It might as well as not existed.
Virtually everyone else who has played GW2 completely disagrees with you. You may like that game, but people here have documented the update schedule (the living story has been minimal); the intrusive nature of the cash shop; and a lot of other negatives. It's not Archeage level god-awful, but it's not great either. And that's the best case. The worst case? Archeage...
Considering that roughly 2 million people are playing Guild Wars 2 (based their ARPU and quarterly reports), your first sentence is automatically incorrect.
That's really impressive... no, wait, something's not right with that number, let me check something...
...
...
Oh, 2 million people bought the game at launch. A year in their concurrent numbers are under 500k. Yeah, that's a little different.
So, it seems your first sentence is factually incorrect.3 -
eisberg✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Guild Wars 2 has had better content updates and more frequent than any other MMO I have played, and that is including this game and even WoW. Played WoW for a little over a year from 2005 to 2006, and they made very little content updates for the non raiders. Pushing out Raiding content that a very small minority of players will actually get to play through is basically the same as not making content for everybody else.
A WoW developer, shortly after the last raid before the first expansion released, stated that only 15% of the player base have actually entered Molten Core, and even less than that have actually finished it. Considering you had to do Molten Core to do the next raid, and that continued on through the other raids after that, should really tell you how little those raid content update really meant to the vast majority of the player base. It might as well as not existed.
Virtually everyone else who has played GW2 completely disagrees with you. You may like that game, but people here have documented the update schedule (the living story has been minimal); the intrusive nature of the cash shop; and a lot of other negatives. It's not Archeage level god-awful, but it's not great either. And that's the best case. The worst case? Archeage...
Considering that roughly 2 million people are playing Guild Wars 2 (based their ARPU and quarterly reports), your first sentence is automatically incorrect.
That's really impressive... no, wait, something's not right with that number, let me check something...
...
...
Oh, 2 million people bought the game at launch. A year in their concurrent numbers are under 500k. Yeah, that's a little different.
So, it seems your first sentence is factually incorrect.
http://taugrim.com/2014/04/10/per-player-revenue-arpu-for-mmos/
Take their arpu, and look at the quarterly sales for the game, and you get roughly 2 million players. This doesn't include the Chinese players.
In August 2013, they hit 3.5 Million copies bought.
Also, Concurrent means how many they had logged in at one time. Peak concurrent for MMOs are roughly around 15-25% of the total user base.
for some references
http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/06/07/eve-pushes-over-the-60-000-peak-concurrent-user-mark/
http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/07/wow-pandaria-1-million-concurrent-players-in-china/
There are more than 1 Million players in China
Also it states 400,000 concurrent for Guild Wars 2 just 2 months after it releases, if 2 million sold at that time, would mean 20% peak concurrent.
So yeah, when I stated roughly 2 million players, it actually is a very good rough estimate.2 -
Aevric✭✭✭Lol smedly. He Killed SWG and was caught in a blatant lie regarding P2W supply drops containg weapons in H1Z1.
RIP Prispar: master creature handler, riflemen and noob force sensitive.
The man's name is now used as a noun and a verb:
"The devs went ahead and pulled a Smedley on us".
"They had better not Smedley this game in the next patch".Edited by Aevric on January 25, 2015 8:04PM2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Take their arpu, and look at the quarterly sales for the game, and you get roughly 2 million players. This doesn't include the Chinese players.
Okay, this is the same fallacy that lets people like Cryptic claim that Star Trek Online had over a million players back when it was still box n' sub. Box sales do not equal players. Accounts do not equal players. Accounts don't even equal active accounts. Active accounts don't equal players.
And, by your own admission, you don't know what the number actually is.
None of this changes the fact that Guild Wars 2 has been a divisive release. You can't say, "no, guy's the water's fine," while someone is setting it on fire behind you. It's just not credible.1 -
Carina✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Not worried at all, if my sub no longer has value, I am outa here, I might buy something out of the store even with my sub if it is something I like, but if they start putting things I need to advance my toon while being an eso pass player, I will be gone, nothing to worry about here.
Content update schedule is no longer in effect. The subscription has already lost a lot of value even before TESOU (is that what we're calling it?) has release.
So no MMO in history has ever been worth a subscription? Because none of them have ever stuck to a content update schedule this tight.
Who's comparing it to other titles other than yourself? The subscription was touted as a "Premium Service" offering frequent content updates however that service has been diminished due to the relaxing nature of " It’s time to let the game breathe a little".
And now you can opt to not pay a monthly fee if you don't think that it's worth it. You'll even be able to play the game. Isn't that fantastic?
I'd rather pay a monthly sub and get frequent content updates instead of paying a monthly sub with less frequent updates.
I've subscribed to WoW for about 8 years now, but Blizzard haven't released content on a frequent basis. In fact, we had the same raid from the last expansion (Siege of Orgrimmar) go on for 14 months, with no new content during that entire time until the new expansion Warlords of Draenor was released on November 13th of last year. Sadly, paying a sub doesn't automatically mean you'll get regular new content.0 -
eisberg✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Take their arpu, and look at the quarterly sales for the game, and you get roughly 2 million players. This doesn't include the Chinese players.
Okay, this is the same fallacy that lets people like Cryptic claim that Star Trek Online had over a million players back when it was still box n' sub. Box sales do not equal players. Accounts do not equal players. Accounts don't even equal active accounts. Active accounts don't equal players.
And, by your own admission, you don't know what the number actually is.
None of this changes the fact that Guild Wars 2 has been a divisive release. You can't say, "no, guy's the water's fine," while someone is setting it on fire behind you. It's just not credible.
ok, that is true for any other MMO that talks about subscriber numbers. And you are right, I never hid the fact they were not official numbers, and stated where those numbers are coming from.
Anyways, the whole point is that he said Virtually everyone who has played GW2 disagrees with me, that is false, the income that Guild Wars 2 states that is false, and that income is not from Whales, Whales only make for about 5% of the paying player base.0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, but ZoS is making it so almost every update you have to buy if you are not a sub (which is a good way of doing it).~Thallen~0 -
eisberg✭✭✭bosmern_ESO wrote: »Yes, but ZoS is making it so almost every update you have to buy if you are not a sub (which is a good way of doing it).
Yeah, and I doubt it would cost more than a sub fee on the average to buy it those DLC. Meaning if they come out with one every 3 months, I think they'll make it less than $45 to buy.
Honestly, I feel if they went with a B2P system from the beginning and designed the game around that idea, and basically mimic's Guild Wars 2 system, they would had much better success. I think their original idea would have done better if it released around 2003 to 2006. They more than likely would have kept up with their original idea of having content updates every 4-6 weeks.1