Use Arenas as PvP incentives
Ok, so apparently arenas are going to be a thing and there is nothing we can do about it. I don't care if they are DLCs or not, but I do care if they harm Cyrodill.
The best option to implement them is to make them a reward for doing well in AvA.
Just like PvE players are motivated by the buffs and soon the Imperial City, so should PvP players get incentives to hold on to territory rather than just farm AP.
Add a district to the Imperial City called "training grounds".
Once conquered, they'd enable to register a team and fight against other teams of your faction with the lore justification of being training.
Whatever arena mechanics get implemented should be able to work out under those constraints.
Add some observer seats all around the fighting zone where other players can observe and place bets on the various fights.
Those players need to some times get called back to reality.
To this effect, if more than one home keep has been lost, the ability to register for fights is shutdown.
Also, when the district gets attacked, all teams become friendly again and both the public and the fighters get to fight together to fend off the assaillants.
Of course, once this is done, the interupted fights get reset.
Not only does this concept helps AvA by making more people care about its outcome, it also lets controlled fights fans get what they want.
If arenas are DLCs, it's also revenue.
Under this structure, there can even be great rewards for doing well in the arenas as it will add even more incentives for caring about AvA, the IC and its districts.
It also adds some cool non combat activity through observing and betting.
And finally adds some emergent gameplay as people get to fight to capture/defend the district.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
The best option to implement them is to make them a reward for doing well in AvA.
Just like PvE players are motivated by the buffs and soon the Imperial City, so should PvP players get incentives to hold on to territory rather than just farm AP.
Add a district to the Imperial City called "training grounds".
Once conquered, they'd enable to register a team and fight against other teams of your faction with the lore justification of being training.
Whatever arena mechanics get implemented should be able to work out under those constraints.
Add some observer seats all around the fighting zone where other players can observe and place bets on the various fights.
Those players need to some times get called back to reality.
To this effect, if more than one home keep has been lost, the ability to register for fights is shutdown.
Also, when the district gets attacked, all teams become friendly again and both the public and the fighters get to fight together to fend off the assaillants.
Of course, once this is done, the interupted fights get reset.
Not only does this concept helps AvA by making more people care about its outcome, it also lets controlled fights fans get what they want.
If arenas are DLCs, it's also revenue.
Under this structure, there can even be great rewards for doing well in the arenas as it will add even more incentives for caring about AvA, the IC and its districts.
It also adds some cool non combat activity through observing and betting.
And finally adds some emergent gameplay as people get to fight to capture/defend the district.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
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Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There finally adding arena
???????????????? This will help PvP alot cause player who are in it have no choice but to fight instead of most PvPers do and that is to run away like cowards till they get help from gankers spamming lethal arrow and crystal fragments or blazeing shield or burning talons.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146679/arena-dueling#latest
IDea thread for arena BTW.1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Source?Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why not just make Arena's just like our current DSA? I don't mean 4v4v4 necessarily, although that could be interesting, but more like there are progressing stages where you fight stronger foes each stage until you lose. I'd love to see 4v4 arena that's a PvP variant of DSA, as long as there is NO superior gear that ONLY drops/is sold in/by doing Arena then I'm fine with it and see no negative impact on Cyro. It should have rewards though, something better than the current Cyro Leaderboard rewards like much better Gold payout, higher chance at the epic items that the Elite Vendor sells in Cyro, etc.1 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭HELL NO! I hate arenas, especially from my WoW days. Seriously don't want them to nerf bat every class skill on the sway of freaking forum crying.
If they do add them they better implement them properly and not spend every god damn patch nerfing one class and buffing another!5 -
Source?
One of the answers in the latest reddit AUA:
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/cnyi503Why not just make Arena's just like our current DSA? I don't mean 4v4v4 necessarily, although that could be interesting, but more like there are progressing stages where you fight stronger foes each stage until you lose. I'd love to see 4v4 arena that's a PvP variant of DSA, as long as there is NO superior gear that ONLY drops/is sold in/by doing Arena then I'm fine with it and see no negative impact on Cyro. It should have rewards though, something better than the current Cyro Leaderboard rewards like much better Gold payout, higher chance at the epic items that the Elite Vendor sells in Cyro, etc.
The DSA like tourney of surviving as many rounds as posssible would be great.
Winning 10 fights in a row in PvP is quite a feat and would deserve very high pay off.
However, as I stated in the opening comment, it needs to be unlocked by AvA or people will just play arenas and completely ignore Cyrodill.
If it is done this way, it's ok to have great rewards because they'll indirectly boost AvA's competitiveness too.1 -
Laggus✭✭✭✭Gain 10% dps in the Arena for 2 hrs..200 crowns. All joking aside, Arena would be good so long as the benefits aren't overly rewarding such as xp gains and so on otherwise theres potential there to farm ranks and xp, gold etc. With people fighting their buds over and over. This could then adversly affect Cyrodiil.3
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eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭It sounds more like your average commercial BG, Warzone, Warfront or similar is coming to ESO. I mean there's "capture the flag"...
As long as exp, ap and rewards are balanced to Cyrodiil, I'm happy with any new PvP content. Would be nice with equal numbers and no zergs, for a change.
Still cant ignore that many PvP for:
1. Fun
2. AP or rewards
I dare say a majority cares little about map strategy. They want non-stop fun fights against other players no downtime. Instanced PvP offers that. Cyrodiil does not, specially after they removed camps to reduce the lag.
So I do agree with OP, it could harm Cyrodiil, making it less populated. It really depends on how they implement these things. But connecting ESO battlegrounds to doing well in AvA isn't realistic. You cant sell DLC that's only available under certain circumstances.0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cyrodiil will not die if there were arenas added.
There are tons of people who love running in big groups, roaming around in Cyrodiil and just sieging. When ESO is B2P the population is probably going to sky rocket and I'd be surprised if ZoS keeps the amount of campaigns we have currently.~Thallen~1 -
Nivzruo_ESO✭✭✭✭If arena or BGs "kill" cyrodiil then clearly the players have spoken and said that cyrodill style pvp is trash.. I'd agree with them.Nelgyntc- V14 NB2 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »Source?
One of the answers in the latest reddit AUA:
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/cnyi503Why not just make Arena's just like our current DSA? I don't mean 4v4v4 necessarily, although that could be interesting, but more like there are progressing stages where you fight stronger foes each stage until you lose. I'd love to see 4v4 arena that's a PvP variant of DSA, as long as there is NO superior gear that ONLY drops/is sold in/by doing Arena then I'm fine with it and see no negative impact on Cyro. It should have rewards though, something better than the current Cyro Leaderboard rewards like much better Gold payout, higher chance at the epic items that the Elite Vendor sells in Cyro, etc.
The DSA like tourney of surviving as many rounds as posssible would be great.
Winning 10 fights in a row in PvP is quite a feat and would deserve very high pay off.
However, as I stated in the opening comment, it needs to be unlocked by AvA or people will just play arenas and completely ignore Cyrodill.
If it is done this way, it's ok to have great rewards because they'll indirectly boost AvA's competitiveness too.
"We are still looking at plans for possible 'battlegrounds' being introduced to the game. Whether such content would be DLC (paid for expansion) or something we deliver in a normal update is not known at this time."
"ESO Style battlegrounds. Currently looking at defined play times (12 minutes for example) with objectives centering around varying play-styles. Capture the flag, kill the Emperor, etc. These are all still in the exploratory phase."
Your link says nothing about arenas.Edited by TheBull on January 25, 2015 3:55PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
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TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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Today, I believe that arenas will help Cyrodiil. It will let it breath. Make no mistake Cyrodiil is epic and there is nothing like it in the industry. Still with it being the only form of pvp people reach a point were they want to do something else. Currently the only option for those players is to play Cyrodiil w/o concern for objectives, just looking for kills or duels.Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »If arena or BGs "kill" cyrodiil then clearly the players have spoken and said that cyrodill style pvp is trash.. I'd agree with them.
Give those players and option of doing something else and when they choose to go to Cyrodiil they will be playing to win.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
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Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
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Today, I believe that arenas will help Cyrodiil. It will let it breath. Make no mistake Cyrodiil is epic and there is nothing like it in the industry. Still with it being the only form of pvp people reach a point were they want to do something else. Currently the only option for those players is to play Cyrodiil w/o concern for objectives, just looking for kills or duels.Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »If arena or BGs "kill" cyrodiil then clearly the players have spoken and said that cyrodill style pvp is trash.. I'd agree with them.
Give those players and option of doing something else and when they choose to go to Cyrodiil they will be playing to win.
Actually Planet Side is avava with full open world PVP0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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Eve Online could also be considered a MASSIVE Cyrodiil of sorts. You Siege POS Towers of a rival Corporation to take over the space it occupies for it's resources (Moon mining). And talking about massive PvP battles, Eve is far and wide the clear winner in scale here.
Today, I believe that arenas will help Cyrodiil. It will let it breath. Make no mistake Cyrodiil is epic and there is nothing like it in the industry. Still with it being the only form of pvp people reach a point were they want to do something else. Currently the only option for those players is to play Cyrodiil w/o concern for objectives, just looking for kills or duels.Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »If arena or BGs "kill" cyrodiil then clearly the players have spoken and said that cyrodill style pvp is trash.. I'd agree with them.
Give those players and option of doing something else and when they choose to go to Cyrodiil they will be playing to win.
Actually Planet Side is avava with full open world PVP1 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Eve Online could also be considered a MASSIVE Cyrodiil of sorts. You Siege POS Towers of a rival Corporation to take over the space it occupies for it's resources (Moon mining). And talking about massive PvP battles, Eve is far and wide the clear winner in scale here.
Today, I believe that arenas will help Cyrodiil. It will let it breath. Make no mistake Cyrodiil is epic and there is nothing like it in the industry. Still with it being the only form of pvp people reach a point were they want to do something else. Currently the only option for those players is to play Cyrodiil w/o concern for objectives, just looking for kills or duels.Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »If arena or BGs "kill" cyrodiil then clearly the players have spoken and said that cyrodill style pvp is trash.. I'd agree with them.
Give those players and option of doing something else and when they choose to go to Cyrodiil they will be playing to win.
Actually Planet Side is avava with full open world PVP
I agree . I just always got lost in EVE . I was Starmap challenged .0 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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That's the other mmo I have on my SSD. I haven't played a lot since ESO. When I took a 25 day break from ESO PS2 is all I played. I actually played for a few minutes lastnight. I main a tricked out Infiltrator with a scout riffle. When not sneaking behind lines, I play as an engineer in a lightning or harasser. 68 battle rank I believe.
Today, I believe that arenas will help Cyrodiil. It will let it breath. Make no mistake Cyrodiil is epic and there is nothing like it in the industry. Still with it being the only form of pvp people reach a point were they want to do something else. Currently the only option for those players is to play Cyrodiil w/o concern for objectives, just looking for kills or duels.Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »If arena or BGs "kill" cyrodiil then clearly the players have spoken and said that cyrodill style pvp is trash.. I'd agree with them.
Give those players and option of doing something else and when they choose to go to Cyrodiil they will be playing to win.
Actually Planet Side is avava with full open world PVP
Edited by TheBull on January 25, 2015 4:59PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
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It sounds more like your average commercial BG, Warzone, Warfront or similar is coming to ESO. I mean there's "capture the flag"...
As long as exp, ap and rewards are balanced to Cyrodiil, I'm happy with any new PvP content. Would be nice with equal numbers and no zergs, for a change.
Still cant ignore that many PvP for:
1. Fun
2. AP or rewards
I dare say a majority cares little about map strategy. They want non-stop fun fights against other players no downtime. Instanced PvP offers that. Cyrodiil does not, specially after they removed camps to reduce the lag.
So I do agree with OP, it could harm Cyrodiil, making it less populated. It really depends on how they implement these things. But connecting ESO battlegrounds to doing well in AvA isn't realistic. You cant sell DLC that's only available under certain circumstances.
That's the whole point of the proposition, make people care about map strategy for organic reasons.
Selfishness is the best motivator for controling player behaviors. If they have something to gain that has value to them, they will fight for it, and become better.
As of now, the imperial city may or may not be a DLC. I'm sure they won't have an issue selling arenas as DLC even if they depend on having access to the IC.
Arenas could even be part of the IC DLC and be an incentive to purchase it.
I hate this b2p conversion, and I'm probably gonna stop after March, but if this suggestion can have a positive impact on those of you remaining, I'd be happy.Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »If arena or BGs "kill" cyrodiil then clearly the players have spoken and said that cyrodill style pvp is trash.. I'd agree with them.
Is AvA to you trash in principle or in implementation ?
Why did you buy ESO if it is the first, there was supposed to be a large focus of development around Cyrodill.
It's yet another example of false advertising but if you hate this kind of PvP and it was supposed to be the only form of it, why join?
Unless you're commenting on the current state of Cyrodill, which we'll both agree is trash, yet shouldn't have been.
Anyway, it wouldn't speak about the quality of Cyrodill but more about the quality of humans. Low commitment and low complexity combat in the form of arenas is easier to mass consume, and humans are lazy and selfish.
They would naturally take the path of least resistance and would go in arenas rather than Cyrodill, killing its population.
@TheBull
Maybe there is a semantic difference I'm not getting?
Aren't battlegrounds and arenas pretty much the same thing?
What I meant as arenas is small scale instanced PvP with equal sized teams.
As a side note, there is suposedly GW2 too.
I played both GW2 and Planetside 2 (ps2 for months hardcore, leading platoons) and they both failed their implementation of RvR-like mechanics.
Once 1.6 hits and the aoe target caps are removed, Cyrodill will be the better of the three.
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TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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Battle grounds are objective based. Usually it's large numbers compared to arena, 10-20-40 players ect.frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »@TheBull
Maybe there is a semantic difference I'm not getting?
Aren't battlegrounds and arenas pretty much the same thing?
What I meant as arenas is small scale instanced PvP with equal sized teams.
As a side note, there is suposedly GW2 too.
I played both GW2 and Planetside 2 (ps2 for months hardcore, leading platoons) and they both failed their implementation of RvR-like mechanics.
Once 1.6 hits and the aoe target caps are removed, Cyrodill will be the better of the three.
Love the game or hate, when most people think of Arena they thing of WoW. 2v2, 3v3 5v5. The demo the eso team was running was a 4v4v4 arena. What Paul was talking about last week were battle grounds.
I played GW2 hardcore for 3 weeks... I believe Cyrodiil is conceptually so far ahead GW2's RvR that it's disrespectful to ESO to compare the two. Planetside 2's design on the other hand is currently ahead of Cyrodiil. From the latice system to the voice chat. That being said PS2 is a shooter and for me ESO's being a mmorpg, the combat and skill system inside of Cyrodiil is what made me put down PS2.
What made you feel that PS2's implementation failed? If you don't mind.Edited by TheBull on January 26, 2015 2:55PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
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@TheBull
Ha my bad. I lump them both in the same basket because frankly, I don't give a damn about this kind of instanced PvP. Never really enjoyed it when I had other options. sPvP in GW2 is the only one I enjoyed a bit ,but I played at most 40h of it before I got bored.
Anyway, whether its 5v5 or 20v20, if it is getting implemented, it needs to be i na way that profits AvA or the easiest most convenient path will always be favored.
And I agree, GW2's RvR is just...well... not working.
ESO still needs some proper incentives to hit on the stronger guy, the imperial city and the removal of the aoe target cap, but it has on paper the most potential.
As of Planetside 2:
Well, the source of its failure are mainly the lattice system, the reward mechanics focusing on killing above holding objectives and the redeploy mechanics.
The hex + influence system was deeper and had far more evolution potential than the lattice ever will. It's a shame some high profile voices in the community campaigned for the lattice, because they cut the grass under their feet there.
I wish some concept similar to influence could find its way into ESO.
The redeploy mechanic, alongside the sunderers accessible to all the map is exactly the same issue Forward Camps caused here in ESO.
Except PS2 suffered more for it because it removed some iconic emergent gameplay such as individual players being profesional galaxy pilots bringing troops from the warpgate to the front.
What ESO does right here is that it has automated logistics, with the transitus network, which can be cut by any daring attack.
Every point can be attacked but it has such an oportunity cost and such a high cost for failure that it makes choices meaningful.
What it needs now is some smaller objective in between keeps, the way small bases were set under the hex in PS2 in between larger facilities.
I hope we get voice chat ported from the console version, because I miss hearding cats...erm... I mean leading public platoons.1 -
Oughash✭✭✭✭frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »What it needs now is some smaller objective in between keeps, the way small bases were set under the hex in PS2 in between larger facilities.
For a long time I have thought this. They could put a couple of capturable flags in the towns (Bruma, Choral, &c) which also contribute to the Alliance War score.
PS. Imagine if they then created a "garden" of flowers (columbine, mountain flower) for when the town was secure. Or, made each town's garden a different flower type (Bruma = Lady's Smock, Choral = Columbine, ...). I think we would see some new tactics based around disrupting the supply of certain flowers.3 -
Darklord_Tiberius✭✭✭✭frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »Ok, so apparently arenas are going to be a thing and there is nothing we can do about it. I don't care if they are DLCs or not, but I do care if they harm Cyrodill.
The best option to implement them is to make them a reward for doing well in AvA.
Just like PvE players are motivated by the buffs and soon the Imperial City, so should PvP players get incentives to hold on to territory rather than just farm AP.
Add a district to the Imperial City called "training grounds".
Once conquered, they'd enable to register a team and fight against other teams of your faction with the lore justification of being training.
Whatever arena mechanics get implemented should be able to work out under those constraints.
Add some observer seats all around the fighting zone where other players can observe and place bets on the various fights.
Those players need to some times get called back to reality.
To this effect, if more than one home keep has been lost, the ability to register for fights is shutdown.
Also, when the district gets attacked, all teams become friendly again and both the public and the fighters get to fight together to fend off the assaillants.
Of course, once this is done, the interupted fights get reset.
Not only does this concept helps AvA by making more people care about its outcome, it also lets controlled fights fans get what they want.
If arenas are DLCs, it's also revenue.
Under this structure, there can even be great rewards for doing well in the arenas as it will add even more incentives for caring about AvA, the IC and its districts.
It also adds some cool non combat activity through observing and betting.
And finally adds some emergent gameplay as people get to fight to capture/defend the district.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
All of us in Phoenix Rising have been wanting the option to go "rouge" or "Mercenary" in Cyrodiil and have the ability to attack our own faction :P Probably wont ever see it, but would be a nice change of things. Nothing long term, but make it a temporary ability during a campaign cycle. Would add flavor to Cyrodiil.1 -
frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »What it needs now is some smaller objective in between keeps, the way small bases were set under the hex in PS2 in between larger facilities.
For a long time I have thought this. They could put a couple of capturable flags in the towns (Bruma, Choral, &c) which also contribute to the Alliance War score.
PS. Imagine if they then created a "garden" of flowers (columbine, mountain flower) for when the town was secure. Or, made each town's garden a different flower type (Bruma = Lady's Smock, Choral = Columbine, ...). I think we would see some new tactics based around disrupting the supply of certain flowers.
I have no idea why someone would give this a lol.
This is a great concept, give something valuable to the players, and they will fight for it. We all need potions and having access to "gardens" to provide more resources to craft said potions is a tangible incentive.
Other incentives would be to hide high end vendors in capturable towns, so that getting the best PvP gear does not only require you to farm Ap but actually fight over territory.
We could also have capturable stables where you can get a temporary buff to your riding speed. Something that would be loved by all the players that think Cyrodill is too large.
I'd also like to see side wooden bridges that can be build/destroyed.
It would enable a task force to bypass a chokepoint at the cost of AP to build the bridge. A faction on the defensive would want to scout out those bridge locations and destroy them in order to maintain a single front or build them themselves to flank an assault at the risk of opening a line to be flanked themselves.
Just adding strategic choices like these would be a great boon for the game.
Anyway, we're getting off topic here. The game needs both the incentives and the means to have meaningful fighting.
In the case of instanced PvP, it should be implemented in a way that benefits the rest of the game rather than making part of the population disapear in instances.0