the CGI trailers are particularly ineffective advertising.

Arato · January 2015

So I watched the twitch stream about the B2P announcement and something about it just bothered me.

No it wasn't the B2P announcement itself, I anticipated that and well, I'm okay with B2P models. really glad it's not a F2P model.

I realized, it was the 7 and a half minutes of high production value CGI at the beginning.

I realize now how the CGI trailers really are meaningless for pitching hype for this game. They have absolutely nothing to do at all with the game itself. They're generic characters, not characters we ever actually meet in the game. In fact if you didn't try to fit them into the races and alliances of Tamriel, and knew nothing about TES, you'd just see them for the generic fantasy tropes they really are, Viking Warrior, Human Ranger, Elf Mage. So you have 3 generic fantasy tropes fighting each other in footage that obviously is CGI and looks nothing like the game being advertised, with little context. The only recognizable character is Manimarco and you'd have had to have already played the game to recognize him because for a game with full voice acting, there is no voice acting in the trailers to establish what's going on.

In fact the only recognizable elements from the TES series at all are the White Gold Tower, and Scamps.

Without those, I'd have to see the TESO logo at the end to even recognize that this is somehow TES related.

It's just bullshots and minutes of CGI fighting with no real point. They are ineffective at generating hype for the game.

Contrast this with the Skyrim trailers, which are an example of GOOD advertising. The first reveal trailer of course is light because it's just a teaser, but it shows pieces of the Dragonwall, a real location you can go to in the game, with a recognizable daedric symbol that was used as Oblivion's Logo, along with prophetic speech that explains with context the writing on the wall. Follow this with the first real trailer for the game, which had in engine footage with the prophecy setting the stage for the game's narrative, climaxing with a dragon fight and the now infamous "FUS RO DAH", followed by in game footage of locations in the game, and showing combat in engine showing sneak attacks and various monsters and locations you'll see in the world, finishing up by showing the Dovahkiin absorbing a dragon's soul to gain power, with the camera panning away to show more dragons.

THAT generated hype. People dissected that trailer and analyzed it for what was going to be in the game, (1:20 horses confirmed!) and people were excited for the dragon shouts mechanic. "FUS RO DAH" became a widespread meme with a ton of hilarious edits. The ad campaign was effective and successful.

It gave context to game narrative to tell us what the game is about, it utilized in engine footage to show what the game really looks like, it showcased in game activities... it pitched and hyped the game.

You're trying to sell a game, pitch the game, not random CGI fantasy tropes fighting with a logo slapped on at the end.

UrODelA · January 2015

i beg to differ in that matter...TES was never about the well polished graphics; and even lesser: almighty BLIZZ with no doubt - but people always counted on the next more detailed trailer...
...with the ESO introduction, i was not concerned about generic settings, but actually a bit suprised to see the eggbrotherhood of saxheel ^^.

in the case of skyrim i strongly agree...albeit, in my eyes the real deal of advertising was the chanting quire ...and Todds big smile into the audience ^^

clocksstoppe · January 2015

Why don't you skyrim people just go away and play skyrim. Nobody is forcing you to play eso.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing and Profanity.

SFBryan18 · January 2015

It's pretty common now for games to advertise with CGI that looks nothing like the actual game. Never trust game trailers. That's one reason Youtube is so useful.

UrODelA · January 2015

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Why don't you skyrim people just go away and play skyrim. Nobody is forcing you to play eso.

your comment isn't that helpful like you thought it would be...for myself, i am 'TES III people' ; but you didn't noticed...right ^^...just because i spent too much of my lifetime in Vvardenfell ( and will do that, in every TES game that let me visit thar again, for sure ), i shouldn't discuss about 'Skyrim matters' with fellow ESO players ?...

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

@ZOS_LenaicR one got away ^^ *lookin down to quote below*

Arato · January 2015

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Why don't you skyrim people just *** go away and play skyrim. Nobody is forcing you to play eso.

I was pointing it out to compare advertising for the game. Skyrim's advertising was effective, VERY effective. Obviously the foundation for having a game that sells well is to make a good game, but the separation in sales between 2 good games? Effective marketing. Skyrim sold far more than Oblivion and Morrowind despite all 3 being very good games due to the effective marketing of Skyrim. The hype train had no brakes.

Another comparison can be the SWTOR trailers. Now mind you, they were less effective because they also used overly glossy CGI and game players can see through that and they LOSE interest because they tell themselves "there's no way the game looks like that, they're using CGI because the game must look too bad to market itself". However they did do some things effectively. They used characters that you meet in the game, some of them (Satele Shan and Darth Malgus) are very prominent, and they utilized the trailers to establish context for the game's narrative. First trailer showing the return of the Sith Empire, second trailer the civil war on Alderaan which was a major turning point in the war, and third trailer being the Sack of Coruscant which resulted in the signing of an armistice that greatly favored the Sith and handed over to them a number of star systems. So the campaign was effective in telling a story that set up the background for the game.

TESO's CGI trailers failed to do even that. You can only draw some inklings of context AFTER you play the game and then realize "oh they were showing a Daedric Anchor" "Oh, that's Manimarco who's in control of the White Gold Tower" "Oh that thing is a flesh atronach".

Again, AFTER you play the game.

A trailer should give context to make you interested in the game. A trailer should show the game itself instead of CGI so that people say "I want to play THAT."

Arato · January 2015

UrODelA wrote: »

i beg to differ in that matter...TES was never about the well polished graphics; and even lesser: almighty BLIZZ with no doubt - but people always counted on the next more detailed trailer...
...with the ESO introduction, i was not concerned about generic settings, but actually a bit suprised to see the eggbrotherhood of saxheel ^^.

in the case of skyrim i strongly agree...albeit, in my eyes the real deal of advertising was the chanting quire ...and Todds big smile into the audience ^^

the "Barbarian Choir" going with the theme song WAS definitely an effective part of the advertising yes. That song was just..motivating. I remember just being hyped like crazy on seeing the trailer (after already having just been hyped by the reveal at the VGA's), Viking/Barbarian chants, a cool title like Dragonborn, shouting defiantly at a dragon's face, there was just something that really reached out and grabbed you about it all.

It made you want to run around yelling battle cries at everything in real life.... and then when you got the game the first thing you do is learn that shout and use it to punt Lydia off a mountain..

TalkingPear · January 2015

I have to agree. There's nothing wrong with CGI trailers, but the ones we got just weren't that great in my opinion.

Moonscythe · January 2015

Where does that leave the live action movie/trailer for Skyrim? It was certainly cool to watch and captured the look and feel of the game without being part of the game. I feel the same about both the Skyrim live action movielet and the ESO CGI trailers. They are side stories set in the world and used to tease the mind with lore. I think a trailer that sets a mood and place is as important as a trailer that demonstrates gameplay.

Sacadon · January 2015

The trailers look cool, but everyone knows they're not representative of the game. So I'd be surprised if they were really generating any feasible interest. There's probably a better area for them to spend that money.

I think they've held off on much more than this because they've had console-pie in their face for a while. If this year they can address, the PvP lag, console and game mechanics and progression, we'll finally be out of beta and maybe they'll come out of hiding and really push the marketing.

UrODelA · January 2015

Arato wrote: »

...
It made you want to run around yelling battle cries at everything in real life...

i second that ^^ ...even added TES music to my playlist ( with usual suspects like Ensiferum, Turisas or Amon Amarth) for gardening and cutting timber...

Arato · January 2015

Moonscythe wrote: »

Where does that leave the live action movie/trailer for Skyrim? It was certainly cool to watch and captured the look and feel of the game without being part of the game. I feel the same about both the Skyrim live action movielet and the ESO CGI trailers. They are side stories set in the world and used to tease the mind with lore. I think a trailer that sets a mood and place is as important as a trailer that demonstrates gameplay.

I forgot about that live action trailer, that was not an effective Ad. I mean, it didn't stick with me the way the game footage trailer did.

I don't want to be pitched CGI and live action instead of the game I want to be pitched the game.

Naivefanboi · January 2015

lmao i enjoyed the trailers, just wish the game lived up to the hype the trailers try and create. ad i wish the characters in the trailer actually had a part in the story.

Roechacca · January 2015

The Werewolf parts were accurate . Transform / get rekt / 1 players kills a bunch .

Arato · January 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

The trailers look cool, but everyone knows they're not representative of the game. So I'd be surprised if they were really generating any feasible interest. There's probably a better area for them to spend that money.

I think they've held off on much more than this because they've had console-pie in their face for a while. If this year they can address, the PvP lag, console and game mechanics and progression, we'll finally be out of beta and maybe they'll come out of hiding and really push the marketing.

Well, as I understand it the marketing budget is different from the development budget and certainly the marketing team is different than the developer teams.

Marketing is important, that's why I'm bringing this up. I may not like a lot of advertising, but I do understand its importance. Like I said, Morrowind and Oblivion were amazing games as well but the difference between their 3-5 million copies sales and Skyrim's 20 million + sales, is marketing. Skyrim was marketed very well and was able to capture new audiences that normally weren't paying attention to new RPG releases.

Effective Marketing might dispel some commonly held beliefs about this game. People see the trailers and think "oh it's just a WoW clone with a TES theme"

Why do they think that? Because they expect it from other MMO's and all they know is that other MMO's do this approach, and they saw a CGI trailer from the game with no gameplay. If you show gameplay, people see "oh, it's an action combat system, with active blocking and dodging, and manual aiming, combat is more like Oblivion than WoW". If you show gameplay people see "oh it's 3 faction siege PVP in a HUGE map". You know, important stuff.

But you show CGI that is at best a tangent to the game, and people continue to hold these prejudices about the game, assume it's a generic themepark with a tab target autoattack combat system, and don't have any interest in the game. CGI doesn't tell them about the game and why they should be interested.

Sacadon · January 2015

Arato wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

The trailers look cool, but everyone knows they're not representative of the game. So I'd be surprised if they were really generating any feasible interest. There's probably a better area for them to spend that money.

I think they've held off on much more than this because they've had console-pie in their face for a while. If this year they can address, the PvP lag, console and game mechanics and progression, we'll finally be out of beta and maybe they'll come out of hiding and really push the marketing.

Arato wrote: »

Well, as I understand it the marketing budget is different from the development budget and certainly the marketing team is different than the developer teams.

Agreed on budgets and departments being separate, or at least I sure hope they are.

Arato wrote: »

Marketing is important, that's why I'm bringing this up. I may not like a lot of advertising, but I do understand its importance. Like I said, Morrowind and Oblivion were amazing games as well but the difference between their 3-5 million copies sales and Skyrim's 20 million + sales, is marketing. Skyrim was marketed very well and was able to capture new audiences that normally weren't paying attention to new RPG releases.

Effective Marketing might dispel some commonly held beliefs about this game. People see the trailers and think "oh it's just a WoW clone with a TES theme"

Why do they think that? Because they expect it from other MMO's and all they know is that other MMO's do this approach, and they saw a CGI trailer from the game with no gameplay. If you show gameplay, people see "oh, it's an action combat system, with active blocking and dodging, and manual aiming, combat is more like Oblivion than WoW". If you show gameplay people see "oh it's 3 faction siege PVP in a HUGE map". You know, important stuff.

But you show CGI that is at best a tangent to the game, and people continue to hold these prejudices about the game, assume it's a generic themepark with a tab target autoattack combat system, and don't have any interest in the game. CGI doesn't tell them about the game and why they should be interested.

Yup, I think the current marketing and advertising is ineffective and really wish they'd improve. My previous comment was just that I think they've intentionally held off. I say that as I'm trying to give them credit for having a strategy that minimizes exposure to the negatives, even though I don't agree with it. So if that was their strategy, then once they get past the pie in their face, maybe they'll start to market more. That would be great. Either way, who really knows... I just hope they improve it.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2015

I enjoyed the trailers, but to be honest I don't understand their context. Do these heroes represent the Shriven? Do they represent an example of how our characters ended up in Coldharbor? This is the only explanation I think that possibly fits. What doesn't make sense to me about it is that the three Champions in the cgi have powers which do not exist in the game, at least not clearly so to me. The weapon fighting to some extent fits (though I wish it had more relevance in the actual game). The Aldmeri Champion seemed to use some form of uber soul assault-based chain attack, coupled with massive lightning. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in the game. The main takeaway from this CGI that I've had since the beginning is that I wonder if there is an actual story to those 3 characters, and we've just not seen it yet. I'm curious.