New update on the Justice system via AMA on reddit
Gorthax
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The question was this:
"Can you please talk about your planned pace of content/updates post 1.6? It will be more than a full quarter between 1.5 and 1.6 once 1.6 makes it to the live servers.
Will update 1.6 be the last content update before console launch? If not, how do you plan to incorporate patch 1.7 into Tamriel Unlimited without having "day 1 DLC" on consoles and the PR hit that will ensue because of it.
Please talk about how the PVP portion of the Justice system will work with Tamriel Unlimited. Is this portion now DLC?
With no PVP content since launch and the Imperial City being such an integral part of Cyrodiil when launched, will the IC be now considered DLC? It would seem quite difficult to separate the two.
You said new DLC in Tamriel Unlimited will scale to the player level allowing the player to play the new content regardless of where they are in the leveling experience. Is there any plan to bring this mechanic to the game as a whole?"
Matts response was as follows:
"These are all great, astute questions, and are things that have led to many internal discussions over the last couple of months here at ZOS.
1) We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes. It's time to let the game breathe a little - we've done so many new features so quickly that we want to make sure everyone is on the same page with us. 1.6 alone has a complete rebalancing of most player abilities - we don't want to do that again, for example. Our #1 priority right now is getting Tamriel Unlimited launched on PC, and then focusing on a successful console launch. While we do those things, we have other teams already working on DLC and expect to see that start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down.
2) yes, 1.6 is going to be the last major update before console launch, for obvious reasons. We will continue to do interim updates as necessary. As Paul said in another thread on this AMA, we're now developing for 4 platforms at once, and it is inherently more complex. We're committed to having content hit all the platforms at roughly the same time, so it will necessarily slow things down a bit.
3) This remains to be determined - I've been pretty clear that PvP justice is pretty scary from a game balance perspective, and we need to be very careful how we implement it. if/when it makes it in to the game, it will not be as part of a paid DLC.
4) We're working through the details for this right now - stay tuned for details.
5) We have definitely talked about this, but it would be a huge change to the game, and one that would require a major effort to adjust leveling rewards (loot cadence/levels, etc.). We'll keep this on the back-burner for now."
They are now saying IF the pvp part of the justice system makes it into the game. GG for that idea with the outlaws and enforcers. Was a fun concept.
Also notice he contradicted himself.
"This remains to be determined" then says "If/when it makes it in to the game, it will not be as part of a paid DLC."
So is it coming since it remains to be determined lol then follows it up with it wont be part of a paid dlc.......ZoS is so confusing. I dont think they have any idea what they actually are going to do anymore.
Content will now be coming out at a snales pace more than likely
Edited by Gorthax on January 23, 2015 8:21PM "Can you please talk about your planned pace of content/updates post 1.6? It will be more than a full quarter between 1.5 and 1.6 once 1.6 makes it to the live servers.
Will update 1.6 be the last content update before console launch? If not, how do you plan to incorporate patch 1.7 into Tamriel Unlimited without having "day 1 DLC" on consoles and the PR hit that will ensue because of it.
Please talk about how the PVP portion of the Justice system will work with Tamriel Unlimited. Is this portion now DLC?
With no PVP content since launch and the Imperial City being such an integral part of Cyrodiil when launched, will the IC be now considered DLC? It would seem quite difficult to separate the two.
You said new DLC in Tamriel Unlimited will scale to the player level allowing the player to play the new content regardless of where they are in the leveling experience. Is there any plan to bring this mechanic to the game as a whole?"
Matts response was as follows:
"These are all great, astute questions, and are things that have led to many internal discussions over the last couple of months here at ZOS.
1) We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes. It's time to let the game breathe a little - we've done so many new features so quickly that we want to make sure everyone is on the same page with us. 1.6 alone has a complete rebalancing of most player abilities - we don't want to do that again, for example. Our #1 priority right now is getting Tamriel Unlimited launched on PC, and then focusing on a successful console launch. While we do those things, we have other teams already working on DLC and expect to see that start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down.
2) yes, 1.6 is going to be the last major update before console launch, for obvious reasons. We will continue to do interim updates as necessary. As Paul said in another thread on this AMA, we're now developing for 4 platforms at once, and it is inherently more complex. We're committed to having content hit all the platforms at roughly the same time, so it will necessarily slow things down a bit.
3) This remains to be determined - I've been pretty clear that PvP justice is pretty scary from a game balance perspective, and we need to be very careful how we implement it. if/when it makes it in to the game, it will not be as part of a paid DLC.
4) We're working through the details for this right now - stay tuned for details.
5) We have definitely talked about this, but it would be a huge change to the game, and one that would require a major effort to adjust leveling rewards (loot cadence/levels, etc.). We'll keep this on the back-burner for now."
They are now saying IF the pvp part of the justice system makes it into the game. GG for that idea with the outlaws and enforcers. Was a fun concept.
Also notice he contradicted himself.
"This remains to be determined" then says "If/when it makes it in to the game, it will not be as part of a paid DLC."
So is it coming since it remains to be determined lol then follows it up with it wont be part of a paid dlc.......ZoS is so confusing. I dont think they have any idea what they actually are going to do anymore.
Content will now be coming out at a snales pace more than likely
5
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for that information, it was the best news I've seen in a while, not that I'm unhappy with the week's other news, I think the change in business model will turn out to be good for the long-term success of the game.
My main concern with the Justice System has always been that it would simply mean the introduction of open world PvP through the back door, and perhaps Matt's response suggests that they're aware of that potential problem. Clearly the reason they're phasing in the Justice System is because they realise the PvP part needs a lot more careful consideration and planning than the PvE part. I hope the PvP crowd get something out of it ok, but not at the expense of changing the whole world atmosphere outside of Cyrodil along with the overall game balance, nor at the expense of excluding non-PvPers from the Justice System in its final form.
As for the pace of new content, I wouldn't expect that to be maintained at a time when the developers are working on new platform launches, a new business model, and finalising a very substantial change to fundamental parts of the game, nor would I want it to be as it would be chaotic and disastrous. A period of consolidation is definitely going to be required but I don't doubt that a lot of work will still be going on behind the scenes in relation to new content with a view to its implementation once things have settled down. The change of business model is in itself the biggest guarantee of future content additions. Sub-based games can go for a year or more without new content whereas BTP games can't afford to do so.
My only real concern with this response is that it should have been made on this, the official, forum. Even if the CS staff copy stuff here from elsewhere it really is essential in the present climate that we are kept informed of all the developers' snippets of information on the future running of the game, and it shouldn't be for players to fulfill that role, grateful tho' I am to those who do so.Edited by Tandor on January 23, 2015 9:17PM1 -
RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh well no true justice system free stealing and killing npcs for everyone just with avoiding stupid guards yay!0 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭that is what it seems it will come down to. Cant ruin the experience for people who want to play this game for free. Must avoid QQ'ing at all cost. You want to steal and kill NPCs without consequence?! HAVE AT IT! No more worrying about enforcers stopping you.1 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭So 5 months until we see any substantial content additions? A person can only level up so many alts before getting bored ZOS.Edited by LtCrunch on January 23, 2015 9:38PMNerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/162 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Get ready for the crap storm that is coming upon this community lol
Brace yourselves, the broke people who cant afford 15 dollars a month are coming! They will spend 40+ a month on the crown shop though......1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
it is adjusting the skills lol and adding in content they have been working on. A half baked justice system that they are not even sure will have a pvp aspect anymore, mixed with the CS. Not really reinventing anything for this game. Just adding more stuff :P A re write would be better network code/infrastructure, better animations to do away with Animation Cancelling and a block mechanic that actually has meaning instead of being the go to method for everything.
THAT would be rewriting the game
Edited by Gorthax on January 23, 2015 9:44PM2 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭but then again no one really knows since they refuse to actually answer questions on topics like that.1 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It's obviously a massive undertaking and I'm quite excited about the new systems and revamps. That being said extending the content gap to such an extent is going to drive a lot of their existing customers away. Fact is no matter how great these new systems may be we haven't had any substantial content added to the game since update 4 which dropped in September. That's 8 months and 25 days or more!
What are max level players that aren't interested in PVP and have already done all of the PVE content to do? They have one option and that's to roll an alt. That's fine, I like alts because I want one of each class. I'm getting to the point where once my Templar is VR1 I will have a VR1+ of each class well before the console launch. I'm getting my 70 champion points, I've done all of the quests. I've participated in trials, dungeons, and DSA. What am I supposed to do in-game to keep myself entertained if I don't want to level any more alts? I have nothing to work towards already and I'm expected to wait an additional 5 months or more for additional content?
I love you ZOS, but this news is really depressing.
Edited by LtCrunch on January 23, 2015 10:00PMNerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/162 -
Sprinkles28✭✭✭Seems to me all these things point to ZOS shifting their core ideals of ESO being an MMO to a concept of Skyrim multiplayer. What a shame.1
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It's obviously a massive undertaking and I'm quite excited about the new systems and revamps. That being said extending the content gap to such an extent is going to drive a lot of their existing customers away. Fact is no matter how great these new systems may be we haven't had any substantial content added to the game since update 4 which dropped in September. That's 8 months and 25 days or more!
What are max level players that aren't interested in PVP and have already done all of the PVE content to do? They have one option and that's to roll an alt. That's fine, I like alts because I want one of each class. I'm getting to the point where I am going to have a VR1+ of each class well before the console launch. I'm getting my 70 champion points, I've done all of the quests. I've participated in trials, dungeons, and DSA. What am I supposed to do in-game to keep myself entertained if I don't want to level any more alts? I have nothing to work towards already and I'm expected to wait an additional 5 months or more for additional content?
I love you ZOS, but this news is really depressing.
Update 5 must not have dropped a whole ton of new dungeon content. I must be totally mistaken about that.----
Murray?1 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It's obviously a massive undertaking and I'm quite excited about the new systems and revamps. That being said extending the content gap to such an extent is going to drive a lot of their existing customers away. Fact is no matter how great these new systems may be we haven't had any substantial content added to the game since update 4 which dropped in September. That's 8 months and 25 days or more!
What are max level players that aren't interested in PVP and have already done all of the PVE content to do? They have one option and that's to roll an alt. That's fine, I like alts because I want one of each class. I'm getting to the point where I am going to have a VR1+ of each class well before the console launch. I'm getting my 70 champion points, I've done all of the quests. I've participated in trials, dungeons, and DSA. What am I supposed to do in-game to keep myself entertained if I don't want to level any more alts? I have nothing to work towards already and I'm expected to wait an additional 5 months or more for additional content?
I love you ZOS, but this news is really depressing.
Update 5 must not have dropped a whole ton of new dungeon content. I must be totally mistaken about that.
There was a VR dungeon added with update 5. Dailies aren't new content, they're an incentive to do the same content we've already done before. Even if you want to call VR COA "substantial content" that is still 7 months and 6 days or more until we are going to see anything else substantial.
NerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/162 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the year 2525, if man is still alive, we get Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood.
PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It's obviously a massive undertaking and I'm quite excited about the new systems and revamps. That being said extending the content gap to such an extent is going to drive a lot of their existing customers away. Fact is no matter how great these new systems may be we haven't had any substantial content added to the game since update 4 which dropped in September. That's 8 months and 25 days or more!
What are max level players that aren't interested in PVP and have already done all of the PVE content to do? They have one option and that's to roll an alt. That's fine, I like alts because I want one of each class. I'm getting to the point where I am going to have a VR1+ of each class well before the console launch. I'm getting my 70 champion points, I've done all of the quests. I've participated in trials, dungeons, and DSA. What am I supposed to do in-game to keep myself entertained if I don't want to level any more alts? I have nothing to work towards already and I'm expected to wait an additional 5 months or more for additional content?
I love you ZOS, but this news is really depressing.
Update 5 must not have dropped a whole ton of new dungeon content. I must be totally mistaken about that.
There was a VR dungeon added with update 5. Dailies aren't new content, they're an incentive to do the same content we've already done before. Even if you want to call VR COA "substantial content" that is still 7 months and 6 days or more until we are going to see anything else substantial.
1. I do call VR CoA substantial content.
2. A whole plethora of new gear sets is substantial content.
3. I have no idea where you're getting the 7 months number from, but I also consider the upcoming Champion and Justice Systems, along with all the other revamps to be substantial content.
Clearly, we just have different definitions of content. I'll be enjoying myself, stealing from unwitting NPCs and slicing their throats. You have fun doing whatever it is that brings you pleasure.----
Murray?1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭gg so they were lying about future pvp content and have not added any.Edited by TheBull on January 23, 2015 10:19PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard2 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thanks for that information, it was the best news I've seen in a while, not that I'm unhappy with the week's other news, I think the change in business model will turn out to be good for the long-term success of the game.
My main concern with the Justice System has always been that it would simply mean the introduction of open world PvP through the back door, and perhaps Matt's response suggests that they're aware of that potential problem. Clearly the reason they're phasing in the Justice System is because they realise the PvP part needs a lot more careful consideration and planning than the PvE part. I hope the PvP crowd get something out of it ok, but not at the expense of changing the whole world atmosphere outside of Cyrodil along with the overall game balance, nor at the expense of excluding non-PvPers from the Justice System in its final form.
As for the pace of new content, I wouldn't expect that to be maintained at a time when the developers are working on new platform launches, a new business model, and finalising a very substantial change to fundamental parts of the game, nor would I want it to be as it would be chaotic and disastrous. A period of consolidation is definitely going to be required but I don't doubt that a lot of work will still be going on behind the scenes in relation to new content with a view to its implementation once things have settled down. The change of business model is in itself the biggest guarantee of future content additions. Sub-based games can go for a year or more without new content whereas BTP games can't afford to do so.
My only real concern with this response is that it should have been made on this, the official, forum. Even if the CS staff copy stuff here from elsewhere it really is essential in the present climate that we are kept informed of all the developers' snippets of information on the future running of the game, and it shouldn't be for players to fulfill that role, grateful tho' I am to those who do so.
*Optional open-world PvP.
It won't be like AoC where people were getting ganked left and right starting in quest areas in beginner zone.
You'll have the choice to engage or not. Don't wanna get killed by enforcers, don't be a criminal.
Don't wanna get killed by Criminals, stay out of the enforcer line.
The only real consideration that needs to be made is how long the PvP flag lasts. If you're flagged as an Enforcer permanently, or flagged as Criminal permanently, then it's an issue.1 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It's obviously a massive undertaking and I'm quite excited about the new systems and revamps. That being said extending the content gap to such an extent is going to drive a lot of their existing customers away. Fact is no matter how great these new systems may be we haven't had any substantial content added to the game since update 4 which dropped in September. That's 8 months and 25 days or more!
What are max level players that aren't interested in PVP and have already done all of the PVE content to do? They have one option and that's to roll an alt. That's fine, I like alts because I want one of each class. I'm getting to the point where I am going to have a VR1+ of each class well before the console launch. I'm getting my 70 champion points, I've done all of the quests. I've participated in trials, dungeons, and DSA. What am I supposed to do in-game to keep myself entertained if I don't want to level any more alts? I have nothing to work towards already and I'm expected to wait an additional 5 months or more for additional content?
I love you ZOS, but this news is really depressing.
Update 5 must not have dropped a whole ton of new dungeon content. I must be totally mistaken about that.
There was a VR dungeon added with update 5. Dailies aren't new content, they're an incentive to do the same content we've already done before. Even if you want to call VR COA "substantial content" that is still 7 months and 6 days or more until we are going to see anything else substantial.
1. I do call VR CoA substantial content.
2. A whole plethora of new gear sets is substantial content.
3. I have no idea where you're getting the 7 months number from, but I also consider the upcoming Champion and Justice Systems, along with all the other revamps to be substantial content.
Clearly, we just have different definitions of content. I'll be enjoying myself, stealing from unwitting NPCs and slicing their throats. You have fun doing whatever it is that brings you pleasure.
I can't wait to be able to do that either, I'm extremely excited. Is that honestly going to keep you entertained for 4 months(assuming update 6 hits in February)? I'll just have to get more serious about PVP I guess, but that's not going to be good enough for everybody.
Edited by LtCrunch on January 23, 2015 10:18PMNerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/160 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I guess so. Stealing from and "slitting throats" of things that have no chance of fighting back is pretty lame imo...nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It's obviously a massive undertaking and I'm quite excited about the new systems and revamps. That being said extending the content gap to such an extent is going to drive a lot of their existing customers away. Fact is no matter how great these new systems may be we haven't had any substantial content added to the game since update 4 which dropped in September. That's 8 months and 25 days or more!
What are max level players that aren't interested in PVP and have already done all of the PVE content to do? They have one option and that's to roll an alt. That's fine, I like alts because I want one of each class. I'm getting to the point where I am going to have a VR1+ of each class well before the console launch. I'm getting my 70 champion points, I've done all of the quests. I've participated in trials, dungeons, and DSA. What am I supposed to do in-game to keep myself entertained if I don't want to level any more alts? I have nothing to work towards already and I'm expected to wait an additional 5 months or more for additional content?
I love you ZOS, but this news is really depressing.
Update 5 must not have dropped a whole ton of new dungeon content. I must be totally mistaken about that.
There was a VR dungeon added with update 5. Dailies aren't new content, they're an incentive to do the same content we've already done before. Even if you want to call VR COA "substantial content" that is still 7 months and 6 days or more until we are going to see anything else substantial.
1. I do call VR CoA substantial content.
2. A whole plethora of new gear sets is substantial content.
3. I have no idea where you're getting the 7 months number from, but I also consider the upcoming Champion and Justice Systems, along with all the other revamps to be substantial content.
Clearly, we just have different definitions of content. I'll be enjoying myself, stealing from unwitting NPCs and slicing their throats. You have fun doing whatever it is that brings you pleasure.
Edited by TheBull on January 23, 2015 10:51PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard2 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭What I read into this is that first off, no new content between 1.6 and Console launch, that's to be expected. From a business standpoint it seems silly to have major new content within a month of Console release, so July is likely out too. I'd wager, being familiar with DLC via PC games, that we'll see major content about every 4 months starting probably with Wrothgar in August-September, and then 1 more before the year is out.
Jessica Folsom also said that there will likely be many smaller updates that are not part of DLC, just added to the game like they do now. Spellcrafting will probably be on that side of the list, while she said that The Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood may be on the DLC side of it. I suspect DLC (the major patches) will be the ones spread out while the minor stuff will continue like normal about every 1-2 months, after Console it out ofc.1 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Guess that depends on what will ship with 1.7. If 1.7 is just the removal of Veteran Ranks it might happen BEFORE Console launch. However, if ZoS changes their minds and doesn't remove VR and 1.7 is actually the first major content patch (likely Wrothgar) then I suspect we'll see it late summer-early fall. TBH none of us know and ZoS is historically tight lipped on everything.so 1.7....Q1 2016?0