An issue with ESO Plus that I'd like feedback on

Gorthax · January 2015

wiz12268b14_ESO wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

wiz12268b14_ESO wrote: »

I doubt the calculations above.

I suspect a crown will be 2 cents. So 1500 is 7.50 (less any bonuses they might give for any real cash purchases they offer)

I also suspect DLC will be 19.99 on average. Thus they will cost at least 4000 crowns in the store if not more (to counteract the bonuses one would expect) I expect crowns bought with cash on the most expensive option with the best bonus will get you to maybe 1.25 cents per crown. So a $100 package gets to a base of 10K crowns and a 2500 crown bonus.

Its way too much to ask that a sub is going to pay for DLC on a 1 for one basis. That isnt economically feasible for them.

Even at 4000 crowns (assuming they sell them for crowns) subbing for one year (12 months)will buy 4.5 of them outright. Will they release thant many a year? Doubtful I suspect 3 maybe 4. With only 2 of those being 'major' and one or two being 'supplemental".

No matter what it will more than likely be better at least on the surface to take advantage of any 'specials' they offer with the initial transition.

but 1500 is LESS than 15 dollars a month with your calculation so it makes zero sense for them to do it that way. We pay 15 dollars a month for 7.50 worth of stuff? No one would do the sub then lol

why would they give you one for one? You get perks and crowns and free access to DLC. The 'free' access to DLC has a value.

My exchange might not be perfect but I am sure it will be close.

yes the free access to DLC that comes with a monthly -->PAYMENT<-- lol and if you stop paying you lose the dlc. So it makes perfect sense to offer it via my "rough" calculation because of the simple fact: Give them crowns to buy the dlc(possibly every month or every other month if crowns are saved), and make them spend money on other things once the "free" crowns are used up. Makes perfect sense from a business stand point.

DeLindsay · January 2015

If they do allow us to purchase DLC with Crowns then every other month's worth of Crowns seems a reasonable amount for the DLC to cost. As I said before that puts the target DLC cost between $15-30, which I personally think they'll be $19.99 or $24.99, but I could be totally wrong and they could be $5 or $40+. The fact is we won't know until a Wrothgar hits (likely to be the first DLC) whether we can purchase them with Crowns and what the cost-value of ESO Plus will be. Unless ofc, ZoS pops in and confirms that Crowns will in fact buy DLC and a rough cost. I do hope that's true and that the cost is between 1500-3K Crowns.

Kraven · January 2015

If they do sell the DLC for crowns, then the question returns what do you get for your subscription?

If in order to have access to the DLC you have to spend the crowns you got for being a subscriber...

Stonesthrow · January 2015

You will have to buy the DLC even as a subscriber IF you want to have it to play after you quit being a subscriber.

If you are just going to always be a subscriber, then you don't have to buy the DLC.

Who's on first?

Ysne58 · January 2015

I think one of the big questions is will the player be able to purchase the DLC with in game currency.

Bouvin · January 2015

You're paying a monthly sub for the 10% XP and Gold boost. Not for the DLC because everyone knows that buying it outright is the cheaper way to go.

Especially when content updates start getting stretch out (which they will).

They already promised 4-6 week deliveries on new content, which they failed miserably to achieve.

Anyone who thinks they'll suddenly hit the mark is silly. At least long term.. I'm sure for the first 5 months they will hit it because they've basically been holding back Justice System, Wrothgar, Imperial City, etc. so that they can "offer" it as DLC.

Gorthax · January 2015

All I know is that NONE of the eso+ "perks" benefit me at all. 10% more gold off mobs ROFL! so instead of 60 I get 66? ummmmm keep your six gold lol 10% faster research time? I dont even research as is nor want too, what about people with maxed research? 10% more experience? meh. 10% more inspiration gained? again, meh.

The only benefit is the 1500 crowns a month. Even then I am not sure lol I will wait to see what they are going to charge before I decide to keep subbing AFTER i get my 12 month loyalty one time only horse that is brown with spiked armor(lets be honest, it will probably be something like this).

If I sub or dont sub, I will still play UNTIL this goes pay to win. Then I will give everything away to the delete button and spend all my gold on random stuff and delete that too :P

Aevric · January 2015

If the monthly allotment of Crowns for the Plus subscription allows us to purchase all of the DLC zones/dungeons/etc. for future use (if we unsubscribe at a later date) plus leave some remaining Crowns for a shop item here and there, I have no issues with the new plan.
If they start to crank out more DLC than the allotment covers... then I have a real problem, and will likely start looking for a new MMO to play.

Gorthax · January 2015

Aevric wrote: »

If the monthly allotment of Crowns for the Plus subscription allows us to purchase all of the DLC zones/dungeons/etc. for future use (if we unsubscribe at a later date) plus leave some remaining Crowns for a shop item here and there, I have no issues with the new plan.
If they start to crank out more DLC than the allotment covers... then I have a real problem, and will likely start looking for a new MMO to play.

this all day! But the justification is "you get it for free with your subscription" It's going to suck when you stop subbing, never bought ANY dlc, and need to spend 400 dollars to play all the dlc lol Might as well keep paying 15 a month :P

Or when someone joins the game way late with 8 dlc out already and it is 15 a pop. Feel bad for them, time to sub it up

hmmm.....

Maybe ESO is on to something here.....

Melian · January 2015

Good point. If it is the way you described, OP, I call that a huge rip-off (wouldn't be the first from Zen).

Shunravi · January 2015

All I want to see is them continuing to focus on content updates. And since they have announced the cash shop, I hope that the focus of the shop will be channeled to these DLC purchases, as well as the vanity items.

The thing I'm worried about though, is along the lines of subject of this thread. I don't want to see people paying the sub to be penalized for doing so should they choose to drop the sub in the future. What this would entail is either giving the ammount of crowns needed to buy the dlc, or giving a discount to subs for their purchase. That way, should the person who subbed chose to drop it, they won't feel ripped of for the investment. They have the option to purchase the content with the money already spent.

If they balanced this so that the choice would be between buying cosmetic items with your sub, and buying security in the system, that would be fine...

Azalin76 · January 2015

I have to agree, we should get the DLC permanently or at least free for the first year if you have been a paying member since day 1 like most of us.

Morshire · January 2015

A good way to do this IMO would be to allow the subs to get up to the last update permanent at the release of new DLC if they have continued their sub continuously from said last update. This will give the feeling of ownership, but still force people to stay subbed for new DLC. Or at least some option for pre 1.6 customers to obtain the future DLC permanently. As someone pointed out, lifetime sub option for launch players for $200 or something like that would work too. Would stop a lot of people from quitting, give them a huge influx of revenue to avoid having to rely so much on "vanity items", and keep the player base loyal. Or maybe it is just a huge cash grab and they could care less what "loyal" players want and would just prefer the "rent" model so they continue to gather $$$$$?

wiz12268b14_ESO · January 2015

They said in the Live twitch (it is available somewhere to watch now) that they will have 30, 60, 90, 6 month and 12 month sub options. As for the price it would be a good olive branch for them to the PC people. Since they beta tested it and 99 bucks for a 12 month commitment is money in the bank and actually could be more money than they made at launch with box sales.

As far as DLC goes, I suspect they will be available for crowns because they will be selling crowns for cash, they might be ONLY available with crowns who knows? But knowing ZoS they will probably give multiple options for DLC purchase just like theyre giving multiple options for access.

As far as 'whats cheaper" subbing only when they release a DLC or maybe even every other DLC would be the cheapest option obviously. You can still play the vanilla game and max out all the current (and 1.6) content and then when they release a couple DLCs you sub, get your 1500 credits and play through the DLC content. Bank your 1500 credits, and after the next couple DLC resub again. That could possibly be a 12 month period or time maybe even more depending on how quickly their DLC content is released. My hope it one every 3 months, or 4 months at most. I suspect that will be easy to meet since they have a few (I figure 10 or 12) already canned and ready for release. So the first year or two should be a fairly predictable schedule. So that should (in a perfect world) give them that amount of time to continue with free mechanical updates as well as producing and developing more DLCs.

The money is there and whether its PC or console supplying it it all goes to the same game. So even if the PC players balk, console players are more than used to buying DLC content for games and when theyre used to paying 60-75 bucks a game a DLC price tag of 19.99 or 24.99 is a bargain basement deal.

But people who think theyre going to get enough crowns from subbing to buy every DLC release is deluded. Unless they only release two a year or something, and then it becomes a question of not being sub worthy because youre subbing to a game with too few content updates.

But they still need to put more things in the basic (buy to play version) to keep it viable as well. DLC isnt going ot cut it. While there are hundreds of hours of game play that still isnt enough to keep volume gamers busy.

Either way I suspect the first year or two will be fairly steady.

DeLindsay · January 2015

wiz12268b14_ESO wrote: »

The money is there and whether its PC or console supplying it it all goes to the same game. So even if the PC players balk, console players are more than used to buying DLC content for games and when theyre used to paying 60-75 bucks a game a DLC price tag of 19.99 or 24.99 is a bargain basement deal.

But people who think theyre going to get enough crowns from subbing to buy every DLC release is deluded. Unless they only release two a year or something, and then it becomes a question of not being sub worthy because youre subbing to a game with too few content updates.

I'm looking at it from a PC DLC standpoint. I have purchased many from several different games and not a single one had any DLC that cost more than $24.99, but most were $4.99-19.99. This was after an initial cost of the game of $50-60. $19.99-24.99 is not remotely what I'd call bargain basement, again from a PC gaming standpoint. I do not however have any idea what DLC's cost on Consoles as I haven't owned one for years. I think it's quite reasonable that each new DLC (Zones most likely) would cost more than a single monthly sub ($14.99) but cheaper than 2 monthly subs ($29.98).

I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we really won't have any idea for a while and Gina just stated in a thread about Crowns today that they won't give any specifics on DLC cost/frequency until they're ready to. I would be nice though if they'd poke their head into this one and just let us know if, at the very least, DLC will be purchasable with the Crowns that ESO Plus members are allotted.

HoosierPappy · January 2015

Its definitely NOT B2P. Its R(ent)2P. If you buy something, its yours. If you unsub, its NOT yours. You didnt buy it, you rented it. I dont get how they think its gonna be legal for me to buy dlc, then take it away from me. Im still looking for the fine print......

kodo · March 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

I have (1) issue so far with the B2P announcement, and that's the "rental" of DLC for ESO Plus members. Lets say for example that Wrothgar is the first DLC, that it comes out in July (after Console launch) and it costs $19.99. In this example there are 2 different Players, Player A who has chosen not to pay a monthly sub after March 17th and Player B who pays every month for ESO Plus. It's been 4 months since the change to B2P occurs.

Player A - Paid nothing for 4 months, buys Wrothgar for $19.99.

Player B - Paid $60 for 4 months, has full access to Wrothgar while subbing.

In August (month 5) Player A does not pay a monthly sub, has still only paid $19.99 for full game access. Player B lets their sub cancel for the month of August for w/e reason and loses access to Wrothgar, but has paid $60 to ZoS. How is ZoS justifying ESO Plus's "rental" of DLC when under this very example above the ESO Plus member paid 3x the cost of the Wrothgar DLC yet loses access while the free player just dropped $20 and has full access forever?

The way it SHOULD work is that the month a DLC hits, if the ESO Plus member has paid more in sub fees than the cost of said DLC (including the cost of previous DLCs) they get permanent access to said DLC. That would keep players from only subbing for the month of the DLC and getting a possible discount on the cost of it.

A further example:

Player A - Pays for 1 month sub in July for $15, has access to Wrothgar for July. They would need to pay for another monthly sub ($30 total) in order to have permanent access to the $20 Wrothgar DLC. Or they could have paid only the DLC cost and no sub fee to have permanent access.

Player B - Has subbed the entire time since March 17th at $15/mo. In July Wrothgar comes out and Player B has permanent access since they have exceeded the $20 cost. In August a 2nd DLC comes out for $25 ($45 for both), Player B has permanent access to both DLC's since they have now subbed for 5 months at a cost of $75. And this example could continue forever.

I feel this cheapens the ESO Plus concept as the monthly "rewards" for continued sub are negligible outside of the possibility of permanent account access to DLC if the sub cost has exceeded the DLC costs.

absolutely right! that's why i cancelled the sub. cause if i'm a memebr in eso plus,than why should i be renting dlc's ? i want to own them ,since i pay monthly.no logic in paying every month,and in the end it's not even yours cause if u cancel the sub the dlc is gone!

DeLindsay · March 2015

kodo wrote: »

absolutely right! that's why i cancelled the sub. cause if i'm a memebr in eso plus,than why should i be renting dlc's ? i want to own them ,since i pay monthly.no logic in paying every month,and in the end it's not even yours cause if u cancel the sub the dlc is gone!

Yeah it's unfortunate that the ZoS management team (likely the decision makers, and bosses to all Devs) have chosen this payment system that favors free Players instead of those who were loyal from day one. I too have cancelled my sub and when it runs out in May I just might just be looking for a new MMO to support with my money, hell I might just go back to Eve Online as I have from time to time over the years. Time will tell whether or not the 1500 Crowns/mo will be a viable option to purchase DLC. If so that's fine because I have little interest in the fluff the Crown Store has to offer right now.

Chuggernaut · March 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

I have (1) issue so far with the B2P announcement, and that's the "rental" of DLC for ESO Plus members. Lets say for example that Wrothgar is the first DLC....

I agree 100% with you, its a better deal to go f2p now, especially if you consider that not every DLC will be appealing to everyone. For me, I just want spell crafting, and don't care about new zones atm.

Beowulf_McCallum · March 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

Aevric wrote: »

If the monthly allotment of Crowns for the Plus subscription allows us to purchase all of the DLC zones/dungeons/etc. for future use (if we unsubscribe at a later date) plus leave some remaining Crowns for a shop item here and there, I have no issues with the new plan.
If they start to crank out more DLC than the allotment covers... then I have a real problem, and will likely start looking for a new MMO to play.

this all day! But the justification is "you get it for free with your subscription" It's going to suck when you stop subbing, never bought ANY dlc, and need to spend 400 dollars to play all the dlc lol Might as well keep paying 15 a month :P

Or when someone joins the game way late with 8 dlc out already and it is 15 a pop. Feel bad for them, time to sub it up

hmmm.....

Maybe ESO is on to something here.....

Saved me having to type it:) the ESO plus membership will hold far more value to someone coming in to the game 2-3 years down the road than it does to us at this time.
I honestly feel with its structure, the B2P model in ESO's case is meant to be a way to add a 'demo/trial' of a subscription game. As this all matures, I think that's what we'll be seeing as the state of the game a few years down the road.