What current items equate to Pay to Win?

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

For items that are currently already a part of the game, are there any existing items that if added to the cash shop would be considered a pay to win item?

Off the top of my head I can't think of any existing item already in the game that I would consider a pay to win item.

Main reason for that is the one of the biggest differences in TESO compared to other MMOs is that you can easily acquire the best weapons and armor in the game via crafting. In WoW you have to defeat an end game raid boss to get the best gear. In TESO all you need are yellow, legendary quality crafting tempers. If you don't already have them in your inventory, you can buy them for gold from a guild trader.

In a game where it is relatively simple (compared to other MMOs) to acquire the best possible gear simply by spending gold, what existing items in the game would give someone an unfair advantage if it was available for sale in the cash shop?

Stonesthrow · January 2015

Most, if not all of the argument seems to be what they COULD or WILL do down the line, not really about right now.

The fact that nothing in the store will be vendor or trade/sale to other players type stuff is a good sign.

dharbert · January 2015

There's nothing they could put in the store that would be pay to win. I don't care what kind of armor, weapon, etc they put in there. If you suck.....you suck, no matter what gear you have.

Gyudan · January 2015

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

First old trial gear, then the latest Sanctum, Arena and Dungeon stuff, along with all the craftable items. I really hope this never happens.

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

dharbert wrote: »

There's nothing they could put in the store that would be pay to win. I don't care what kind of armor, weapon, etc they put in there. If you suck.....you suck, no matter what gear you have.

I fully agree with you, especially from a PVP perspective.

Elloa · January 2015

Any booster is also in my opinion Pay To Win, but some people might disagree with me.
I also Heirlooms-kind of item (armor and weapons that level with the players, like in WOW), this would be super game breaking in ESO

dharbert · January 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

First old trial gear, then the latest Sanctum, Arena and Dungeon stuff, along with all the craftable items. I really hope this never happens.

I understand that and agree, but if I purchased all the latest and greatest gear from the store, I would still get my butt handed to me in Cyrodiil. Gear alone doesn't make you good, or even better than you were before.

WebBull · January 2015

dharbert wrote: »

There's nothing they could put in the store that would be pay to win. I don't care what kind of armor, weapon, etc they put in there. If you suck.....you suck, no matter what gear you have.

Not true, I suck but with my DK and Lethal Arrow/Snipe, I win

JK, I don't use a bow but you get the point.

DLC is technically P2W. You have to pay for DLC and you will have access to better equipment/skills/etc.

daneyulebub17_ESO · January 2015

"Pay to Win" is a vague, and always eventually abused term. But IMO ANYTHING not strictly cosmetic (which in this game is pretty much just dyes, emotes, and -maybe- different mounts with the same stats as stable bought ones) applies.

That's: Armour. Potions. Rez scrolls. Crafting experience buffs. Invisibility scrolls. Transport scrolls. XP enhancers. Stat buffs. Champion points. LOCK BOX KEYS.

istateres · January 2015

What if the gear was BETER than what you could find in-game? Of the boosts higher than possible to get in-game. Or the horse runs faster, or the armor set is unque to the store, etc, etc, etc.

Wizzo91 · January 2015

From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.

If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.

Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:

If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.
If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.
If they add any gear with stats
If they add crafting material
if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold
if they add any pvp buffs
...

Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.

I give it 6-12 Months.

Der_Deutsche_Hase · January 2015

dharbert wrote: »

There's nothing they could put in the store that would be pay to win. I don't care what kind of armor, weapon, etc they put in there. If you suck.....you suck, no matter what gear you have.

Could a horse be considered "Pay to Win"? I mean you can get a pretty decent horse for $15.00 without having to grind for days.

@OP, I could expect when this game goes F2P, they could put spells in the store. Dunno if they would be strong, but it could be possible.

UrQuan · January 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

I really don't understand how anyone can claim this. If they put gear into the shop that's the equivalent of the gear you can buy from the armourers, clothiers, etc found throughout the zones, how could that be considered P2W? You can already get all of that with a bit of gold anyway, and it's not even worth buying with fake currency, let alone with real currency, because you can get equivalent or better gear dropped from mobs all over the place, or craft vastly superior gear all on your own.

If they put gear like that into the shop, it wouldn't be P2W, it would be P2BaS (pay to be a sucker).

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

Wehrmacht_Bunny wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

There's nothing they could put in the store that would be pay to win. I don't care what kind of armor, weapon, etc they put in there. If you suck.....you suck, no matter what gear you have.

Could a horse be considered "Pay to Win"? I mean you can get a pretty decent horse for $15.00 without having to grind for days.

@OP, I could expect when this game goes F2P, they could put spells in the store. Dunno if they would be strong, but it could be possible.

No to the mount question because all mounts are getting changed to cosmetic items. Mount speed, storage amount and stamina are getting converted over to a characyer skill.

KaneK899ub17_ESO · January 2015

2 piece undaunted are borderline if they were buyable. The different in ult gen between using and not using blood spawn is significant. DKs especially get a big boost from this with Battle Roar.

Even if nothing now could be consider pay to win, that won't stop them from adding sets with higher-than-legendary stats, exclusive sets that offer strong stat bonuses (Like imagine Hunding's being cash only and better than it currently is). That's the stuff I'd like to never see in the cash shop.

Zorrashi · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

I really don't understand how anyone can claim this. If they put gear into the shop that's the equivalent of the gear you can buy from the armourers, clothiers, etc found throughout the zones, how could that be considered P2W? You can already get all of that with a bit of gold anyway, and it's not even worth buying with fake currency, let alone with real currency, because you can get equivalent or better gear dropped from mobs all over the place, or craft vastly superior gear all on your own.

If they put gear like that into the shop, it wouldn't be P2W, it would be P2BaS (pay to be a sucker).

Depending on the game's particular value to gear/gear sets, gear can become the defining aspect that determines the survivability of the character. Hence why the player with the best gear=best player in certain MMOs regardless of their skill (or lack thereof).
While I do not think ESO is structured like that, gear is often viewed as a reward that should be earned. Not bought. Or at least, that should be the case for end-of-dungeon/trial sets. I suppose common sets would be fine though, so long as they are not superior to crafted items in game.

UrQuan · January 2015

Zorrashi wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

I really don't understand how anyone can claim this. If they put gear into the shop that's the equivalent of the gear you can buy from the armourers, clothiers, etc found throughout the zones, how could that be considered P2W? You can already get all of that with a bit of gold anyway, and it's not even worth buying with fake currency, let alone with real currency, because you can get equivalent or better gear dropped from mobs all over the place, or craft vastly superior gear all on your own.

If they put gear like that into the shop, it wouldn't be P2W, it would be P2BaS (pay to be a sucker).

Depending on the game's particular value to gear/gear sets, gear can become the defining aspect that determines the survivability of the character. Hence why the player with the best gear=best player in certain MMOs regardless of their skill (or lack thereof).
While I do not think ESO is structured like that, gear is often viewed as a reward that should be earned. Not bought. Or at least, that should be the case for end-of-dungeon/trial sets. I suppose common sets would be fine though, so long as they are not superior to crafted items in game.

Oh I agree with you entirely. The last thing I want to see is any truly competitive gear in the Crown shop. Any set pieces, purple or gold gear, or anything with rare traits like nirnhoned would equate to P2W in my opinion. I just take issue with the statement made (not by you) that ANY piece of gear put in the shop is P2W. You can put gear in the shop without having any effect on that, as long as it's common gear that can be easily obtained anyway with no real effort.

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

Wizzo91 wrote: »

From what they have announced nothing is pay2win IMHO. The XP boost is very borderline.

If cashshop potions stay worse than max crafted ones that's fine.

Items that would make me leave in a heart beat:
If they add damage boosters, or armour boosters etc.

If they start adding lootboxes with RNG item chances.

If they add any gear with stats

If they add crafting material

if they add better mounts that you purchase with gold

if they add any pvp buffs

...

Also my biggest fear is that they will add these kind of items if they start noticing that box sales/subscriptions/cashshop are not generating enough revenue anymore. The will focus more and more on the cashshop and will start to slowly start adding pay2win items.

I give it 6-12 Months.

I agree with most of your bullet points except for crafting materials. AFAIK every crafting material currently in the game can already be purchased for gold via guild traders. If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?

The simple guideline for me on whether any current or future item is Pay To Win is whether it gives a competitive advantage in Cyrodil PVP or not. If the answer is Yes, then it shouldn't be in the cash shop. If the answer is No, why should anyone care about what other players are buying to improve their PVE gameplay experience since it has zero impact on your personal PVE gameplay?

Ackwalan · January 2015

Items that equal pay to win (IMO).

1) Any one time use item (potion) that adds a bonus to stats/skills. For example a speed boost, xp boost armor/health boost etc.

2) Mount that better bonuses then those already sold in the stables that have better speed, stamina, capacity.

3) Fully leveled 50 mounts of any kind.

4) Leveled characters.

5) Any gear other then cosmetic.

There's always more, but this just comes to my mind at the moment.

pmn100b16_ESO · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

I really don't understand how anyone can claim this. If they put gear into the shop that's the equivalent of the gear you can buy from the armourers, clothiers, etc found throughout the zones, how could that be considered P2W? You can already get all of that with a bit of gold anyway, and it's not even worth buying with fake currency, let alone with real currency, because you can get equivalent or better gear dropped from mobs all over the place, or craft vastly superior gear all on your own.

If they put gear like that into the shop, it wouldn't be P2W, it would be P2BaS (pay to be a sucker).

Depending on the game's particular value to gear/gear sets, gear can become the defining aspect that determines the survivability of the character. Hence why the player with the best gear=best player in certain MMOs regardless of their skill (or lack thereof).
While I do not think ESO is structured like that, gear is often viewed as a reward that should be earned. Not bought. Or at least, that should be the case for end-of-dungeon/trial sets. I suppose common sets would be fine though, so long as they are not superior to crafted items in game.

Oh I agree with you entirely. The last thing I want to see is any truly competitive gear in the Crown shop. Any set pieces, purple or gold gear, or anything with rare traits like nirnhoned would equate to P2W in my opinion. I just take issue with the statement made (not by you) that ANY piece of gear put in the shop is P2W. You can put gear in the shop without having any effect on that, as long as it's common gear that can be easily obtained anyway with no real effort.

This is what makes P2W or not for me. For example, in LOTRO you get chest drops off regular mobs that need a key to open. These keys can also be found on mobs but at a much lower rate than the chests. Now you can grind mobs all day to get a couple of key drops, or you can buy them from the store immediately. That is P2W as far as I'm concerned. Its not so much about the quality of item, more how much grinding/playing time is eliminated simply by handing over your credit card.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

Now the cash shop is out they have NO REASON to add new looks or designs to the "unlimited game". The 10% exp bonus was already talked about being added to the crown shop, potions (slightly worse then what can be crafted), mounts (level 50). This is paying real money to "win", winning in this case as in many of them is not about the game but about the epeen win... and while that does not bug me it is the winning that some people are defining. I could care less if they had a way to get max level (WOW anyone) in the cash shop, because I like to play the game.

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

Zorrashi wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

I really don't understand how anyone can claim this. If they put gear into the shop that's the equivalent of the gear you can buy from the armourers, clothiers, etc found throughout the zones, how could that be considered P2W? You can already get all of that with a bit of gold anyway, and it's not even worth buying with fake currency, let alone with real currency, because you can get equivalent or better gear dropped from mobs all over the place, or craft vastly superior gear all on your own.

If they put gear like that into the shop, it wouldn't be P2W, it would be P2BaS (pay to be a sucker).

Depending on the game's particular value to gear/gear sets, gear can become the defining aspect that determines the survivability of the character. Hence why the player with the best gear=best player in certain MMOs regardless of their skill (or lack thereof).
While I do not think ESO is structured like that, gear is often viewed as a reward that should be earned. Not bought. Or at least, that should be the case for end-of-dungeon/trial sets. I suppose common sets would be fine though, so long as they are not superior to crafted items in game.

The thing is, like I mentioned in the OP, TESO is 180 degrees different from other popular MMOs when it comes to gear because you can already buy a full set of VR14 legendary gear. When it comes to weapons and armor, the game is already Pay to Win because you can buy the best legendary gear with gold.

When I first started playing TESO I thought it was a bad design decision on ZOS part to make crafted gear the best quality in the game. I have since come to understand why they went that route. PVP in Cyrodil is the primary endgame content in TESO. Good PVP should be based on player skill, not who has the best gear. The ability to easily craft best in slot legendary quality gear means everyone is on the same footing in Cyrodil. That is why I think the only cash shop items that would equate to P2W are ones that give a competitive advantage in Cyrodil.

WraithAzraiel · January 2015

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

I really don't understand how anyone can claim this. If they put gear into the shop that's the equivalent of the gear you can buy from the armourers, clothiers, etc found throughout the zones, how could that be considered P2W? You can already get all of that with a bit of gold anyway, and it's not even worth buying with fake currency, let alone with real currency, because you can get equivalent or better gear dropped from mobs all over the place, or craft vastly superior gear all on your own.

If they put gear like that into the shop, it wouldn't be P2W, it would be P2BaS (pay to be a sucker).

Depending on the game's particular value to gear/gear sets, gear can become the defining aspect that determines the survivability of the character. Hence why the player with the best gear=best player in certain MMOs regardless of their skill (or lack thereof).
While I do not think ESO is structured like that, gear is often viewed as a reward that should be earned. Not bought. Or at least, that should be the case for end-of-dungeon/trial sets. I suppose common sets would be fine though, so long as they are not superior to crafted items in game.

Oh I agree with you entirely. The last thing I want to see is any truly competitive gear in the Crown shop. Any set pieces, purple or gold gear, or anything with rare traits like nirnhoned would equate to P2W in my opinion. I just take issue with the statement made (not by you) that ANY piece of gear put in the shop is P2W. You can put gear in the shop without having any effect on that, as long as it's common gear that can be easily obtained anyway with no real effort.

This is what makes P2W or not for me. For example, in LOTRO you get chest drops off regular mobs that need a key to open. These keys can also be found on mobs but at a much lower rate than the chests. Now you can grind mobs all day to get a couple of key drops, or you can buy them from the store immediately. That is P2W as far as I'm concerned. Its not so much about the quality of item, more how much grinding/playing time is eliminated simply by handing over your credit card.

That's not pay to win, that's payed convenience. Buying the keys and grinding the keys there's no difference. It in NO WAY affects what items the box generates. All it affects is how fast you get keys.

You're not more likely to get a blue or purple (or however the hell LotRO does it's items, don't know, never played) just because you bought the keys.

If player A gets 10 boxes and player B also gets 10 boxes.

Player A has a full time job and family, can't devote as much time to the grinding of keys as Player B so he buys the keys, because he can afford it.

Player B however, is a student, works only part time or not at all and can play to their heart's content. Can devote time to grinding keys.

Player B gets for free what Player A could afford to buy. Player B gets pissy because Player A got their keys faster. Maybe Player B is also pissy because he/she can't afford to buy keys.

Communist solution? REMOVE KEYS AS THEY ARE CLASSIST AND A HORRIBLE FORM OF ECONOMIC DISCRIMINATION. KEEP PUTTING THE LITTLE MAN DOWN.

Relax, it's not pay to win, no matter how you dress it up.

pmn100b16_ESO · January 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

I really don't understand how anyone can claim this. If they put gear into the shop that's the equivalent of the gear you can buy from the armourers, clothiers, etc found throughout the zones, how could that be considered P2W? You can already get all of that with a bit of gold anyway, and it's not even worth buying with fake currency, let alone with real currency, because you can get equivalent or better gear dropped from mobs all over the place, or craft vastly superior gear all on your own.

If they put gear like that into the shop, it wouldn't be P2W, it would be P2BaS (pay to be a sucker).

Depending on the game's particular value to gear/gear sets, gear can become the defining aspect that determines the survivability of the character. Hence why the player with the best gear=best player in certain MMOs regardless of their skill (or lack thereof).
While I do not think ESO is structured like that, gear is often viewed as a reward that should be earned. Not bought. Or at least, that should be the case for end-of-dungeon/trial sets. I suppose common sets would be fine though, so long as they are not superior to crafted items in game.

Oh I agree with you entirely. The last thing I want to see is any truly competitive gear in the Crown shop. Any set pieces, purple or gold gear, or anything with rare traits like nirnhoned would equate to P2W in my opinion. I just take issue with the statement made (not by you) that ANY piece of gear put in the shop is P2W. You can put gear in the shop without having any effect on that, as long as it's common gear that can be easily obtained anyway with no real effort.

This is what makes P2W or not for me. For example, in LOTRO you get chest drops off regular mobs that need a key to open. These keys can also be found on mobs but at a much lower rate than the chests. Now you can grind mobs all day to get a couple of key drops, or you can buy them from the store immediately. That is P2W as far as I'm concerned. Its not so much about the quality of item, more how much grinding/playing time is eliminated simply by handing over your credit card.

That's not pay to win, that's payed convenience. Buying the keys and grinding the keys there's no difference. It in NO WAY affects what items the box generates. All it affects is how fast you get keys.

You're not more likely to get a blue or purple (or however the hell LotRO does it's items, don't know, never played) just because you bought the keys.

If player A gets 10 boxes and player B also gets 10 boxes.

Player A has a full time job and family, can't devote as much time to the grinding of keys as Player B so he buys the keys, because he can afford it.

Player B however, is a student, works only part time or not at all and can play to their heart's content. Can devote time to grinding keys.

Player B gets for free what Player A could afford to buy. Player B gets pissy because Player A got their keys faster. Maybe Player B is also pissy because he/she can't afford to buy keys.

Communist solution? REMOVE KEYS AS THEY ARE CLASSIST AND A HORRIBLE FORM OF ECONOMIC DISCRIMINATION. KEEP PUTTING THE LITTLE MAN DOWN.

Relax, it's not pay to win, no matter how you dress it up.

So by that definition being able to buy sanctum ophidia gear in the cash shop also isn't pay to win? Because some people have time to practice and grind it, others may not?

Dave2836 · January 2015

So if they add respec pots, would that be considered pay to win? Im keeping my 180 day sub and need something to spend my crowns on. That being said, I want some cloaks and cowls in the crown store.

WraithAzraiel · January 2015

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

/facepalm

ANY piece of gear put into the cash shop would be the beginning of Pay to Win.

I really don't understand how anyone can claim this. If they put gear into the shop that's the equivalent of the gear you can buy from the armourers, clothiers, etc found throughout the zones, how could that be considered P2W? You can already get all of that with a bit of gold anyway, and it's not even worth buying with fake currency, let alone with real currency, because you can get equivalent or better gear dropped from mobs all over the place, or craft vastly superior gear all on your own.

If they put gear like that into the shop, it wouldn't be P2W, it would be P2BaS (pay to be a sucker).

Depending on the game's particular value to gear/gear sets, gear can become the defining aspect that determines the survivability of the character. Hence why the player with the best gear=best player in certain MMOs regardless of their skill (or lack thereof).
While I do not think ESO is structured like that, gear is often viewed as a reward that should be earned. Not bought. Or at least, that should be the case for end-of-dungeon/trial sets. I suppose common sets would be fine though, so long as they are not superior to crafted items in game.

Oh I agree with you entirely. The last thing I want to see is any truly competitive gear in the Crown shop. Any set pieces, purple or gold gear, or anything with rare traits like nirnhoned would equate to P2W in my opinion. I just take issue with the statement made (not by you) that ANY piece of gear put in the shop is P2W. You can put gear in the shop without having any effect on that, as long as it's common gear that can be easily obtained anyway with no real effort.

This is what makes P2W or not for me. For example, in LOTRO you get chest drops off regular mobs that need a key to open. These keys can also be found on mobs but at a much lower rate than the chests. Now you can grind mobs all day to get a couple of key drops, or you can buy them from the store immediately. That is P2W as far as I'm concerned. Its not so much about the quality of item, more how much grinding/playing time is eliminated simply by handing over your credit card.

That's not pay to win, that's payed convenience. Buying the keys and grinding the keys there's no difference. It in NO WAY affects what items the box generates. All it affects is how fast you get keys.

You're not more likely to get a blue or purple (or however the hell LotRO does it's items, don't know, never played) just because you bought the keys.

If player A gets 10 boxes and player B also gets 10 boxes.

Player A has a full time job and family, can't devote as much time to the grinding of keys as Player B so he buys the keys, because he can afford it.

Player B however, is a student, works only part time or not at all and can play to their heart's content. Can devote time to grinding keys.

Player B gets for free what Player A could afford to buy. Player B gets pissy because Player A got their keys faster. Maybe Player B is also pissy because he/she can't afford to buy keys.

Communist solution? REMOVE KEYS AS THEY ARE CLASSIST AND A HORRIBLE FORM OF ECONOMIC DISCRIMINATION. KEEP PUTTING THE LITTLE MAN DOWN.

Relax, it's not pay to win, no matter how you dress it up.

So by that definition being able to buy sanctum ophidia gear in the cash shop also isn't pay to win? Because some people have time to practice and grind it, others may not?

You're nitpicking and over-complicating.

That's a different situation entirely. The quoted situation has to do with keys for opening boxes. What's in those boxes? I have no idea, I've never played LotRO, but I'm assuming it's some money, some armor or weapons and possibly crafting materials. Fact of the matter, how the key is acquired DOES NOT CHANGE THE CONTENT OF THE BOXES.

In no way can the connection be made from my hypothetical scenario, to your accusation of buying Trial gear being okay.

No mention of buying gear was mentioned in the announcement. It's going to be:

Potions that scale to your level (Weaker than player made, on par with vendor bought)
Soul Gems
Costumes
Pets
Mounts

So aside from saving gold on buying vendorcrap potions whilst leveling, where's the advantage?

Mounts? They're available to everybody with $20 to upgrade to the digital Imperial Edition, $15 for the standalone horse in the store currently, and 42,000 in game gold.

Don't try and twist words to fit Pay to Win fearmongering.

hiyde · January 2015

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

If I can pay gold for dreugh wax and upgrade all my armor to legendary, what difference does it make to game balance and fairness if I can also buy the dreugh wax in the cash shop with crowns?

Setting aside whether it's "Pay 2 Win", in this example, every Dreugh Wax sold via the cash shop is one that ISN'T going to be sold in a guild store...in a game where entire guilds are dedicated to trade.

As a *trade guild leader*, I'm not thrilled to see items like Soul Gems, potions that level up as you do, and potentially other items like what you are advocating become items that can be purchased with RL cash instead of via Guild Traders.

If the biggest selling items in Guild stores become available in the cash shop, might as well just switch to a global AH because Trade Guilds will have significantly diminished value.

Just my .02 Crowns...and *my* personal thought/opinion. I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.

WebBull · January 2015

There is no pay to win, only pay to get an advantage. The question, how big of an advantage.

XP and and crafting bonuses are small advantages, DLC content equipment could be a big advantage but most will buy DLC anyway, and obviously if weapons/armor were sold in the store would be a large advantage.

The only items that do not give an advantage is purely cosmetic stuff.

TheShadowScout · January 2015

Let's see what happens.

Some games go the way that the best gear is sold in shops. Some do it even worse, and have the best gear hidden in lockboxes with the keys sold in shops.

But others only sell vanity stuff and access to DLC in their stores. In a way, its still borderline PtW, since you may need the access to get the really good gear... but often these games have a different option as well (as most of such access-derived gear drops would be sold in guild stores...).

Time will tell, and whining about things we don't even know yet is pointless.

UrQuan · January 2015

hiyde wrote: »

As a *trade guild leader*, I'm not thrilled to see items like Soul Gems, potions that level up as you do, and potentially other items like what you are advocating become items that can be purchased with RL cash instead of via Guild Traders.

If the biggest selling items in Guild stores become available in the cash shop, might as well just switch to a global AH because Trade Guilds will have significantly diminished value.

Wait, are soul gems really a big seller in guild stores? Even though you can buy them from vendors and farm them really easily?

Hmm, I was wondering why some people were upset that they'd be sold in the Crown store. If they sell well in guild stores I guess that makes more sense.

Azalin76 · January 2015

I would love to see them add armor to the store that would be like the Heirloom items in WoW. Giving us extra xp while leveling alts would be something I would pay for and you can't consider them play to win items.