The more I think about it, the more this new system is a increase in reward to subscribers.

Grasshopper · January 2015

So if you think of it, here is a question for you guys.

What do you lose for staying subscribed to ESO like you have been?

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As of right now in the current upcoming system, they are allowing users who bought the game to join the game while at the same time anyone who has subscribed or stays subscribed added bonuses. Meaning the rewards from staying subscribed is the same content we would have gotten under the old system, plus the added buffs that you do not usually have.

On a flip note, we DO NOT have a perspective of the value of the items in the crown store. For all we currently know, the amount of crowns you get for currently being subscribed could buy you a vast majority of the store.

As a small disclaimer though, if you add any Pay2Win elements to the crown shop you will see the community come down like 100,000 nova's on a single mudcrab.

(I know just from past experience)

Otherwise, I am not really against this system because anyone who is subscribed is only gaining content to the game, while at the same time it opens up the community to new players.

Community thoughts? Keep it clean though, Jyggalag is watching this thread and he demands order ^-^

Zed · January 2015

We heard you like to give us money so we made a system so you can give us more money while you give us money.

kongkim · January 2015

Zed wrote: »

We heard you like to give us money so we made a system so you can give us more money while you give us money.

Pay the sub and you don't have to giv more then now?

Mjollnir_NL · January 2015

kongkim wrote: »

Zed wrote: »

We heard you like to give us money so we made a system so you can give us more money while you give us money.

Pay the sub and you don't have to giv more then now?

I agree with that :-) If all content is available to me when i subscribe i do not care.

Wizzo91 · January 2015

The system sounds reasonable and I accept it because they were obviously not doing well - that does not mean I like it.

But I have a big fear, that in future more and more "p2w" items will be added if they run out of money and the revenue from extra crown sales is not enough.

We all have to hope that ESO will be very successful on consoles so adding pw2w items to the cash shop will not be necessary.

I will play this for a couple of weeks and test it out. I have never had good experiences with B2P/F2P mmos, so I'm not very optimistic.

NadiusMaximus · January 2015

1500 crowns a month, and a one time payoff of
an extra 100 for every month I've paid for in the past, so that's 10 months, 1000 crowns for paying for a year. Somethings making me feel dirty, like I just got....

Zed · January 2015

kongkim wrote: »

Zed wrote: »

We heard you like to give us money so we made a system so you can give us more money while you give us money.

Pay the sub and you don't have to giv more then now?

If simplying subscribing meant that all the new content in the store is simply available in the game, they wouldn't need to give you premium currency with the subscription.

EinionYrth · January 2015

This is pretty much the model that LotRO used when it ceased to be sub-only. Over time more and more stuff that it's hard to do without gets added to the store, the word "store" and various "give us money" signage becomes increasingly ubiquitous and eventually the whole experience becomes more like going to the supermarket than adventuring in a fantasy setting.
No, you don't have to give them any money over and above a sub but don't for an instant think that this decision will not have any impact on you.

Wulfgren · January 2015

The slippery slope of an eventual P2W store argument is valid, but I will worry and unsub if it ever comes.

I will continue to sub and buy some fun extras in the store with the reward crowns and have an awesome time playing the game until that time. It definitely is scary...

I was worried when WOW's store went live too...but learned that it isn't always the "chicken little - sky is falling" that people make it out to be. The game is far better than WOW and any others that I have played...

If Zenimax ruins this game and its potential...it is their's to lose...until then... meh..whateves...where are the shineys???
-

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

EinionYrth wrote: »

This is pretty much the model that LotRO used when it ceased to be sub-only. Over time more and more stuff that it's hard to do without gets added to the store, the word "store" and various "give us money" signage becomes increasingly ubiquitous and eventually the whole experience becomes more like going to the supermarket than adventuring in a fantasy setting.
No, you don't have to give them any money over and above a sub but don't for an instant think that this decision will not have any impact on you.

We can only hope for the best. Bethesda hold the TES legacy in high regard. They won't let eso become a big flashy amusement park with pink unicorn and big-eyed fairy who sell packs for real money.

Razzak · January 2015

It's not just about how much value you have with your sub. It's also what you can do outside of cash shop. After all, cash shop has to compete with those that make and sell items with crafting and who do you think ZOS will favor in their future development?

KleanZlate · January 2015

I'm just gonna keep playing while it's still enjoyable. I'll pay my sub and keep out of the politics/business plots and conspiracy theories.

MornaBaine · January 2015

It's all goingto depend on if, by continuing my sub, I'll have access to what I want in the store without having to spend real money above and beyond that.

Enodoc · January 2015

Grasshopper wrote: »

So if you think of it, here is a question for you guys.

What do you lose for staying subscribed to ESO like you have been?

Nothing... yet. If they start adding crazy Pay2Win items, then ask me again

Sotha_Sil · January 2015

Zed wrote: »

If simplying subscribing meant that all the new content in the store is simply available in the game, they wouldn't need to give you premium currency with the subscription.

The premium currency is here to attract new subscribers...

@Grasshopper I bow to you Daedric Prince of Order !

FallenProphet · January 2015

I am optimistic that this will hopefully add more players and agree with many people that I will continue to play and pay until/if they add P2W items,

Grasshopper · January 2015

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

The premium currency is here to attract new subscribers...

@Grasshopper I bow to you Daedric Prince of Order !

Don't worry Jyggalag shall rise again.
(hint hint ZOS)

Zed wrote: »

We heard you like to give us money so we made a system so you can give us more money while you give us money.

Actually that is quite valid, because there is a right way to go about it and a wrong way. You are COMPLETELY correct that this is to make money, and if it was not their financial department needs to be fired, but to keep the game alive that is what we know they need.

It can be successful since it opens up the community, but at the same time it is a cliff face with a field of flowers next to it. The field of flowers is the result of upholding your ideals and watering it every day, and the cliff face is a slippery slope of buy 2 win content.

As for the tricky topic of buy 2 win, I do not mean soul gems,or anything of the potions nature. You can send 10 minutes and buy from other players or farm them yourselves. Something like unbinding seals so you can sell your items, improvement mats or anything along those lines will have a devastating effect and a community backlash.

We need to be mindful of content that gives an "Major" advantage over other plays and speak up about it.
At the same time looking at the overall facts, then making our own personal opinion is quite healthy for the community.

Merlin13KAGL · January 2015

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

1500 crowns a month, and a one time payoff of
an extra 100 for every month I've paid for in the past, so that's 10 months, 1000 crowns for paying for a year. Somethings making me feel dirty, like I just got....

@NadiusMaximus‌ , it's better than the 30 they were going to give?

Wait, that's CP's...

Prior to that, they were stopping at 12...

No, that was Vet levels...

They've mucked up so many things with what they've done vs what they insisted they would/wouldn't do, the doubt is winning over the benefit of the doubt.

Feels like it's lacking on the benefit part.

You feel dirty now? Wait until you how much (little) your 1200, loyal-for-a-year-reward that less than a single month's "sub" buys you in the cash shop.

OP, Subbing's a commitment. The troll/grief per dollar ratio hurt more when you had to shell out monthly.

Now it's one time purchase and unlimited BS free for as long as you connection will allow.

Have you seen that chat nonsense in the low level zones? You honestly think that kind of thing will improve with people that have nothing further invested in the game?

Guessing the current subs would happily continue to pay for the content they have already paid for, guaranteed.

10% crafting bonus, inspiration? Seriously - those are good things? Hope they plan on expanding.

And how many need 10% gold + XP bonus, honestly?

The 'free' crowns are a teaser - it's the free lunch to get you into the 4 hour presentation.

Most paid for (what was supposed to be) a closed development system that would generally provide better content and service than a F2P can.

It will cease to be about the game - it will become more about the utility, the $ addons, and how fast they can turn the immediate dime.

The #'s will go up. The quality will suffer.

Bouvin · January 2015

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Grasshopper wrote: »

So if you think of it, here is a question for you guys.

What do you lose for staying subscribed to ESO like you have been?

I think that's more spin than reality, by which I mean our game won't change if we stay subscribed, but we will loose 10% gold/XP/Inspiration etc if we go B2P.

Sallington · January 2015

I haven't lost anything, but the game lost all integrity.

Miszou · January 2015

I'm excited for the store to be honest. New outfits, cool mounts etc. What's not to like? It's gonna be the exact same game as it is now only I'll be getting 1500 free monies for cosmetics and swag.

The only thing I'm not too keen on (and I'm probably in a minority here) is the XP boosts. These kinds of things have a tendency to overlevel the player too quickly and trivialize content. I'd honestly like an option to disable the XP boost, so I can relax and enjoy the story without getting too far ahead of the power curve.

Perhaps if the XP/crafting boosts were soul-bound consumables instead of automatically applied...?

but anyway, that's just me... as I said, I'm quite stoked for the goodies in the store and I have no intention of letting my subscription lapse.

Stonesthrow · January 2015

Like having a sub and never seeing a pay gate pop up. Will have to pay for new content anyway if you don't have one, even though we don't know what the cost will be.

The rewards for subbing are fair, no issues there.

Highly doubt the amount of crowns we get as subs will allow us to buy half the store, but we will see it next week on PTS.

They are testing the March release of the Crown Store on PTS 1.6.

BBSooner · January 2015

The problem with the OP is that (as detailed in multitudes of threads thus far) with a purely subscription based MMO the focus is on content that will justify the box sale and future sub: Zones, Instances, Systems like Justice and Champion, Balancing, etc.

When switching to B2P they prepare themselves for the subs they are going to lose, likely a combination of "I hate B2P so I'm quitting" and "I don't have to pay to do what I want anymore so I'm not paying". This makes the main source of income split between 3 areas:

Box sales
Sub
Cash Shop

Box sales will provide an initial burst of revenue thanks to the console release. However those sales will plateau and dwindle down to a very ineffective drip of income. Subs from PC will dwindle thanks to the above response to B2P, and console won't likely provide many subs due to players having to pay not only a subscription but a network access fee thanks to the console.

This puts the onus of cash flow on the Cash Shop. It is absolutely possible for a cash shop to exist without being intrusive and P2W. GW2 is proof of this. However, GW2 also proves that this outcome provides little content development and let's stagnation set in. However, if new content is something we hope for then likely over time we will fall in to LotRO's cash shop. It increasingly went from vanity items to actual items that would shortcut a character to completion. More and more of your in game emphasis will be put towards getting you to rely on the cash shop, as well as more and more development time will be spent to fill it with things to buy.

This experience will be shared with or without a sub - people have been posting that "just sub, it'll be the same" but that statement is either ignorant or willfully misleading. Everybody will be pushed to purchase at the cash shop, as that is now the main source if income. It is where they receive their funds, So it will be the focus, and the game will slowly - but surely - be tailored to make players increasingly likely to spend money in the cash shop.

Unless of course the shop ends up like the GW2 shop, in which case I hope the content we have seen (that was being developed during the subscription model) is really great -because if the store isn't the focus then we are likely going to see longer and longer terms between content releases since their income source is being ignored.

MissBizz · January 2015

Miszou wrote: »

I'm excited for the store to be honest. New outfits, cool mounts etc. What's not to like? It's gonna be the exact same game as it is now only I'll be getting 1500 free monies for cosmetics and swag.

The only thing I'm not too keen on (and I'm probably in a minority here) is the XP boosts. These kinds of things have a tendency to overlevel the player too quickly and trivialize content. I'd honestly like an option to disable the XP boost, so I can relax and enjoy the story without getting too far ahead of the power curve.

Perhaps if the XP/crafting boosts were soul-bound consumables instead of automatically applied...?

but anyway, that's just me... as I said, I'm quite stoked for the goodies in the store and I have no intention of letting my subscription lapse.

I agree. You are not alone @Miszou with the worry of XP boosts. I already out level content, I don't need any help doing it haha. As well, in Gina's post XP boosts was mentioned as am item available In the crown shop, which could very quickly cross the "pay to win" line. I as well have no plans of allowing my subscription to lapse at this time and will check it out.

Yusuf · January 2015

The playerbase will make the success vor downfall of the game. If we stay subscribed and eso gets more subs through the change, great.
If this doesn't happen it wasn't the fault of the "business-decision" but from lack of subs nevertheless. And the game would turn into a turd no matter the businessmodel.

Jennifur_Vultee · January 2015

Miszou wrote: »

I'm excited for the store to be honest. New outfits, cool mounts etc. What's not to like? It's gonna be the exact same game as it is now only I'll be getting 1500 free monies for cosmetics and swag.

The only thing I'm not too keen on (and I'm probably in a minority here) is the XP boosts. These kinds of things have a tendency to overlevel the player too quickly and trivialize content. I'd honestly like an option to disable the XP boost, so I can relax and enjoy the story without getting too far ahead of the power curve.

Perhaps if the XP/crafting boosts were soul-bound consumables instead of automatically applied...?

but anyway, that's just me... as I said, I'm quite stoked for the goodies in the store and I have no intention of letting my subscription lapse.

What's not to like? Seriously? They took our money for the game, took our subs and said, "You will have access to all content in game at no additional charge!" Then what they did was use our sub fees to create content and a cash shop that we now can only access by purchasing with extra payments in a cash shop. The question really should be, "Why are so many people happy to pay extra for things we were told we would have access to by paying our sub fee?" If they want to keep their word and not lie to us subscribers should have access to an in game equivalent to the cash shop selling the same items for in game gold.

Miszou · January 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

I'm excited for the store to be honest. New outfits, cool mounts etc. What's not to like? It's gonna be the exact same game as it is now only I'll be getting 1500 free monies for cosmetics and swag.

The only thing I'm not too keen on (and I'm probably in a minority here) is the XP boosts. These kinds of things have a tendency to overlevel the player too quickly and trivialize content. I'd honestly like an option to disable the XP boost, so I can relax and enjoy the story without getting too far ahead of the power curve.

Perhaps if the XP/crafting boosts were soul-bound consumables instead of automatically applied...?

but anyway, that's just me... as I said, I'm quite stoked for the goodies in the store and I have no intention of letting my subscription lapse.

What's not to like? Seriously? They took our money for the game, took our subs and said, "You will have access to all content in game at no additional charge!" Then what they did was use our sub fees to create content and a cash shop that we now can only access by purchasing with extra payments in a cash shop. The question really should be, "Why are so many people happy to pay extra for things we were told we would have access to by paying our sub fee?" If they want to keep their word and not lie to us subscribers should have access to an in game equivalent to the cash shop selling the same items for in game gold.

What extra payments? You get 1500 Crowns a month to spend in the shop, and it won't cost you a nickel more than you're already paying.

Sure, you can probably buy extra crowns with cash if you want, but that's entirely up to you.

Also, "they took our money" makes it sound like you were mugged or something. I assume you've been paying for the service quite happily up to this point, so don't try and make it sound as though you were robbed at gunpoint. I don't like paying taxes either, but I don't get all butthurt when "my" tax dollars are used for things I don't approve of, because I recognize that the money is (generally) used to improve things for everyone.

Stonesthrow · January 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

I'm excited for the store to be honest. New outfits, cool mounts etc. What's not to like? It's gonna be the exact same game as it is now only I'll be getting 1500 free monies for cosmetics and swag.

The only thing I'm not too keen on (and I'm probably in a minority here) is the XP boosts. These kinds of things have a tendency to overlevel the player too quickly and trivialize content. I'd honestly like an option to disable the XP boost, so I can relax and enjoy the story without getting too far ahead of the power curve.

Perhaps if the XP/crafting boosts were soul-bound consumables instead of automatically applied...?

but anyway, that's just me... as I said, I'm quite stoked for the goodies in the store and I have no intention of letting my subscription lapse.

What's not to like? Seriously? They took our money for the game, took our subs and said, "You will have access to all content in game at no additional charge!" Then what they did was use our sub fees to create content and a cash shop that we now can only access by purchasing with extra payments in a cash shop. The question really should be, "Why are so many people happy to pay extra for things we were told we would have access to by paying our sub fee?" If they want to keep their word and not lie to us subscribers should have access to an in game equivalent to the cash shop selling the same items for in game gold.

You realize your Forum Tag from Paul Sage contradicts your whining…

"You buy the game, pay the sub and all content is available to you."

Guess what, that is still true.

Jennifur_Vultee · January 2015

Stonesthrow wrote: »

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

I'm excited for the store to be honest. New outfits, cool mounts etc. What's not to like? It's gonna be the exact same game as it is now only I'll be getting 1500 free monies for cosmetics and swag.

The only thing I'm not too keen on (and I'm probably in a minority here) is the XP boosts. These kinds of things have a tendency to overlevel the player too quickly and trivialize content. I'd honestly like an option to disable the XP boost, so I can relax and enjoy the story without getting too far ahead of the power curve.

Perhaps if the XP/crafting boosts were soul-bound consumables instead of automatically applied...?

but anyway, that's just me... as I said, I'm quite stoked for the goodies in the store and I have no intention of letting my subscription lapse.

What's not to like? Seriously? They took our money for the game, took our subs and said, "You will have access to all content in game at no additional charge!" Then what they did was use our sub fees to create content and a cash shop that we now can only access by purchasing with extra payments in a cash shop. The question really should be, "Why are so many people happy to pay extra for things we were told we would have access to by paying our sub fee?" If they want to keep their word and not lie to us subscribers should have access to an in game equivalent to the cash shop selling the same items for in game gold.

You realize your Forum Tag from Paul Sage contradicts your whining…

"You buy the game, pay the sub and all content is available to you."

Guess what, that is still true.

How is it true that all content is available to me if I pay my sub fee if have to pay an additional $15 for a guar mount, $10 for a pet or $5 for costumes that should have been available in game? We were told one thing, they did something else. To me that sounds like a lie.

Iago · January 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Stonesthrow wrote: »

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

I'm excited for the store to be honest. New outfits, cool mounts etc. What's not to like? It's gonna be the exact same game as it is now only I'll be getting 1500 free monies for cosmetics and swag.

The only thing I'm not too keen on (and I'm probably in a minority here) is the XP boosts. These kinds of things have a tendency to overlevel the player too quickly and trivialize content. I'd honestly like an option to disable the XP boost, so I can relax and enjoy the story without getting too far ahead of the power curve.

Perhaps if the XP/crafting boosts were soul-bound consumables instead of automatically applied...?

but anyway, that's just me... as I said, I'm quite stoked for the goodies in the store and I have no intention of letting my subscription lapse.

What's not to like? Seriously? They took our money for the game, took our subs and said, "You will have access to all content in game at no additional charge!" Then what they did was use our sub fees to create content and a cash shop that we now can only access by purchasing with extra payments in a cash shop. The question really should be, "Why are so many people happy to pay extra for things we were told we would have access to by paying our sub fee?" If they want to keep their word and not lie to us subscribers should have access to an in game equivalent to the cash shop selling the same items for in game gold.

You realize your Forum Tag from Paul Sage contradicts your whining…

"You buy the game, pay the sub and all content is available to you."

Guess what, that is still true.

How is it true that all content is available to me if I pay my sub fee if have to pay an additional $15 for a guar mount, $10 for a pet or $5 for costumes that should have been available in game? We were told one thing, they did something else. To me that sounds like a lie.

And the sad part is that this move is just the beginning of a long downhill slide