ZOS Does not appreciate it's subscribers

Bouvin · January 2015

ZOS does not appreciate it's subscribers.

This is pretty obvious by their lack of communication about the subscription model change.

Obviously, this has been in the works for a while because it's coded into 1.6 and will be on the PTS.

Yet they refused to answer any of the F2P concerns that have been getting voiced on the forums for months.

Also, for their long-term subscribers they will be awarding 100 crowns per month of subscribed time. You get 1,500 a month for a sub... but for those of us who have subbed since day 1 we'll only be getting around 1/2 a months of crowns.

I've played this game since Beta 2. I logged in just minutes after the servers went up on Early Access day 1.

I've subbed continuously since then.

And what do I get? Dishonesty by omission, and 1/2 a months worth of crown points.

Obviously, ZOS does not appreciate it's subscribers.

Iago · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

ZOS does not appreciate it's subscribers.

This is pretty obvious by their lack of communication about the subscription model change.

Obviously, this has been in the works for a while because it's coded into 1.6 and will be on the PTS.

Yet they refused to answer any of the F2P concerns that have been getting voiced on the forums for months.

Also, for their long-term subscribers they will be awarding 100 crowns per month of subscribed time. You get 1,500 a month for a sub... but for those of us who have subbed since day 1 we'll only be getting around 1/2 a months of crowns.

I've played this game since Beta 2. I logged in just minutes after the servers went up on Early Access day 1.

I've subbed continuously since then.

And what do I get? Dishonesty by omission, and 1/2 a months worth of crown points.

Obviously, ZOS does not appreciate it's subscribers.

Agreed

BBSooner · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

ZOS does not appreciate it's subscribers.

I read that and thought of Kanye during Katrina. Mike Meyers face was priceless.

Teiji · January 2015

But if we stop subscribing, we lose our loyalty reward progression.

What if the next pet is a Banekin!?

Bouvin · January 2015

Teiji wrote: »

But if we stop subscribing, we lose our loyalty reward progression.

What if the next pet is a Banekin!?

It kind of seems like that halted already.

They must have forgotten about "customer loyalty" when they started seeing $$ signs in the form of a cash shop.

See, cash shop games don't need loyal customers because they always get a new influx of people trying the game out and liking the well-polished first 50 levels. Then once they hit end game and find out that development ground to a halt 6 months after the subscription switch they leave.

LonePirate · January 2015

I honestly do not know of another of another company that treats its (long-term) subscribers as horribly as ZOS does. Snakes treat rats better than ZOS treats us.

Gidorick · January 2015

Oh, they appreciate you. they appreciate the year that you spent with them, the money you have provided to them, and the support you showed them just a little bit less then they will appreciate one month of a console subscriber.

Potenza · January 2015

And obviously no matter what is said on these forums, they are going to do what they are going to do. The forums are just for us to vent - they do not regard the forums for how they are going to build the game. They have a plan, and that's what they are doing. They throw us a bone once in a while and do a little fix here and there but none of it matters except THEIR endgame.

RedTalon · January 2015

They just aren't forcing people to subscribe after buying, though if you want the best you will still pay the subscription to be at the top of the game.

Oh sorry membership fee

jpatek0501ub17_ESO · January 2015

Should have dropped console and focused PC P2P.

b92303008rwb17_ESO · January 2015

Let me quote one of my comments on reddit "The very reason I hate these newcomers crying for B2P or F2P is that they take video games a cheap entertainment, ignoring the fact that, just like a movie, a baseball game or a rock concert, videos games are also dedicating works. If you are willing to pay for way more than $15 for any of those, why not for a video game? Show some respect to those game developers please."

Now what am I getting for urging people to pay some respect to ZOS?

SgtPepperUK · January 2015

tbh I got this vibe from ZOS the day they gave new purchasers on Steam an exclusive pet a few months ago with no consideration to existing subscribers,

Now, yes, it was only a pet but, to me, it said a lot about ZOS' attitude and it's why I made some fairly lengthy posts on the matter because I didn't like the direction this indicated they were going in and, honestly, because it isn't the attitude to have when trying to sell subscriptions in a market that has become pretty hostile to that payment model.

Muizer · January 2015

Apparently (listen to the broadcast) this change of course is ZoS' way of demonstrating they're listening to the players..........yes, I know. You read correctly. They're saying we asked for it.

Bouvin · January 2015

Muizer wrote: »

Apparently (listen to the broadcast) this change of course is ZoS' way of demonstrating they're listening to the players..........yes, I know. You read correctly. They're saying we asked for it.

They also said:

Matt Firor, "Charging a flat monthly (or subscription) fee means that we will offer players the game we set out to make, and the one that fans want to play. Going with any other model meant that we would have to make sacrifices and changes we weren’t willing to make.”

“Our fans are our biggest inspiration, and we’ve listened to their feedback on the entertainment experience they want,” said Matt Firor

Obviously, what they SAY and DO/THINK are two different things.

radiostar · January 2015

Well, I take it this was never unveiled at the Big Guild Summit

So it caught some by surprise.

Lord_Kreegan · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Apparently (listen to the broadcast) this change of course is ZoS' way of demonstrating they're listening to the players..........yes, I know. You read correctly. They're saying we asked for it.

Obviously, what they SAY and DO/THINK are two different things.

What they say is MARKETING. What they do is BUSINESS.

If you've been around the gaming industry for very long at all, MMO's or single-player games, you ought to already know the difference.

pmn100b16_ESO · January 2015

The people I feel sorry for are all those forum posters ardently defending ZoS over the f2p threads popping up. They obviously had 100% trust in the company and the people working there, and they've basically been given the finger. ZoS reps stood by watching it all knowing full well the announcement around the corner.

Also, all the hype around 1.6 and people getting excited over 1000 pages of patch notes, and the "we're taking our time to make sure its just right". When really you were diverting half your efforts into preparing for the b2p transfer and making a cash shop.

Shame on you.

Vlakna · January 2015

I agree they don't care about subscribers. They have made the math. We will lose 500 subscribers at the most. Then we get 1,500 new B2P customers. The subscribers will give us $7,500 a month. But hey the B2P will provide X amount of dollars on the weekly basis. Since they will be buying all kinds of stuff from our cash shop. We can afford that. Ok... lets roll and forget about subs.
Then cash shop becomes #1 priority. So forget about new content every month and half.

Vlakna · January 2015

@Bouvin
Matt Firor, "Charging a flat monthly (or subscription) fee means that we will offer players the game we set out to make, and the one that fans want to play. Going with any other model meant that we would have to make sacrifices and changes we weren’t willing to make.”

“Our fans are our biggest inspiration, and we’ve listened to their feedback on the entertainment experience they want,” said Matt Firor

This until investors want more money. So lets milk the cow!!!

Dreamo84 · January 2015

Do you not know?

Developers thrive on tears... you are only feeding them. Good, good, let your anguish sustain them and they will harvest your sweet nectar of disappointment.

Bloodfang · January 2015

SERIOUSLY WHAT AN OVERREACTION!

1. They are replacing P2P Model with a P2P/B2P Hybrid. Call it more like a B2P Trial if you want.

2. Cash Shop WON'T be P2W. If you are subscribed you will eventually buy everything for "FREE" with the crowns you will be getting monthly anyway.

3. Cash Shop WILL be more like a FEATURE than an ANNOYANCE. You will have all those awesome Costumes, Mounts and Pets there. Like I already said, if you stay subscribed you will be basically getting them for "FREE" anyway. It's addition to the game, and nothing annoying at all.

SUMMARY: Yes when I read the article first, I was really disappointed, however through some deep thought, I've found out that this Hybrid Model is way better than the P2P Model we used to have. It's possibly the best Payment Model ever created. Why:

- More Revenue for ZOS -> More Content for US

- NO P2W Cash Shop -> Just very good looking vanity stuff.

- A Buy to Play Trial for EVERYONE -> Playerbase is gonna increase by a lot.

- Buy To Play DLCs (Free for the subbed people) -> A great way to "force" people to sub anyway. I expect DLCs to be much more costly than a subscription.

What some of you don't understand:

- ESO wasn't doing bad, it would've kept the P2P Model on it's own just fine.

- Microsoft forced this on them, as they didn't want to drop the Xbox Live fee (Sony was prepared to drop it actually for the PS Net).

- Copies sold from Consoles will most likely jump from 200k -> 2mil+ just due to this change -> We are looking at 120+ mil revenue just from Console Sales.

PEOPLE NO NEED TO EXAGGERATE OR OVERREACT!
YOU WILL QUICKLY FIND OUT THAT UPDATES WILL STAY RIGHT ON SCHEDULE! HECK THEY'LL BE PROBABLY EVEN FASTER AND BIGGER. IT WAS A SMART BUSINESS MOVE!

Animal_Mother · January 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

I honestly do not know of another of another company that treats its (long-term) subscribers as horribly as ZOS does. Snakes treat rats better than ZOS treats us.

Trion Worlds... is worse.

I actually like the B2P that ZOS will offer.

Bouvin · January 2015

Bloodfang wrote: »

SERIOUSLY WHAT AN OVERREACTION!

1. They are replacing P2P Model with a P2P/B2P Hybrid. Call it more like a B2P Trial if you want.

2. Cash Shop WON'T be P2W. If you are subscribed you will eventually buy everything for "FREE" with the crowns you will be getting monthly anyway.

3. Cash Shop WILL be more like a FEATURE than an ANNOYANCE. You will have all those awesome Costumes, Mounts and Pets there. Like I already said, if you stay subscribed you will be basically getting them for "FREE" anyway. It's addition to the game, and nothing annoying at all.

SUMMARY: Yes when I read the article first, I was really disappointed, however through some deep thought, I've found out that this Hybrid Model is way better than the P2P Model we used to have. It's possibly the best Payment Model ever created. Why:

- More Revenue for ZOS -> More Content for US

- NO P2W Cash Shop -> Just very good looking vanity stuff.

- A Buy to Play Trial for EVERYONE -> Playerbase is gonna increase by a lot.

- Buy To Play DLCs (Free for the subbed people) -> A great way to "force" people to sub anyway. I expect DLCs to be much more costly than a subscription.

What some of you don't understand:

- ESO wasn't doing bad, it would've kept the P2P Model on it's own just fine.

- Microsoft forced this on them, as they didn't want to drop the Xbox Live fee (Sony was prepared to drop it actually for the PS Net).

- Copies sold from Consoles will most likely jump from 200k -> 2mil+ just due to this change -> We are looking at 120+ mil revenue just from Console Sales.

PEOPLE NO NEED TO EXAGGERATE OR OVERREACT!
YOU WILL QUICKLY FIND OUT THAT UPDATES WILL STAY RIGHT ON SCHEDULE! HECK THEY'LL BE PROBABLY EVEN FASTER AND BIGGER. IT WAS A SMART BUSINESS MOVE!

You obviously haven't experienced a transition in a game from P2P to having a cash shop.

The cash shop will eventually take priority and it will become P2W and you won't be able to buy the box at that point because the only option will be to download the client.

They've also flat out lied about why the 6-month sub was removed, and changed their minds about CP conversion TWICE.

What makes you think they won't change their minds about the way the cash shop works when they decide they need to milk their playerbase for more money?

Bouvin · January 2015

heinsjb14_ESO wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I honestly do not know of another of another company that treats its (long-term) subscribers as horribly as ZOS does. Snakes treat rats better than ZOS treats us.

Trion Worlds... is worse.

I actually like the B2P that ZOS will offer.

I beta tested both Rift and Defiance.

Rift got ruined after the subscription model changed. I decided Defiance wasn't even worth the time before launch.

Dazin93 · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

SERIOUSLY WHAT AN OVERREACTION!

1. They are replacing P2P Model with a P2P/B2P Hybrid. Call it more like a B2P Trial if you want.

2. Cash Shop WON'T be P2W. If you are subscribed you will eventually buy everything for "FREE" with the crowns you will be getting monthly anyway.

3. Cash Shop WILL be more like a FEATURE than an ANNOYANCE. You will have all those awesome Costumes, Mounts and Pets there. Like I already said, if you stay subscribed you will be basically getting them for "FREE" anyway. It's addition to the game, and nothing annoying at all.

SUMMARY: Yes when I read the article first, I was really disappointed, however through some deep thought, I've found out that this Hybrid Model is way better than the P2P Model we used to have. It's possibly the best Payment Model ever created. Why:

- More Revenue for ZOS -> More Content for US

- NO P2W Cash Shop -> Just very good looking vanity stuff.

- A Buy to Play Trial for EVERYONE -> Playerbase is gonna increase by a lot.

- Buy To Play DLCs (Free for the subbed people) -> A great way to "force" people to sub anyway. I expect DLCs to be much more costly than a subscription.

What some of you don't understand:

- ESO wasn't doing bad, it would've kept the P2P Model on it's own just fine.

- Microsoft forced this on them, as they didn't want to drop the Xbox Live fee (Sony was prepared to drop it actually for the PS Net).

- Copies sold from Consoles will most likely jump from 200k -> 2mil+ just due to this change -> We are looking at 120+ mil revenue just from Console Sales.

PEOPLE NO NEED TO EXAGGERATE OR OVERREACT!
YOU WILL QUICKLY FIND OUT THAT UPDATES WILL STAY RIGHT ON SCHEDULE! HECK THEY'LL BE PROBABLY EVEN FASTER AND BIGGER. IT WAS A SMART BUSINESS MOVE!

You obviously haven't experienced a transition in a game from P2P to having a cash shop.

The cash shop will eventually take priority and it will become P2W and you won't be able to buy the box at that point because the only option will be to download the client.

They've also flat out lied about why the 6-month sub was removed, and changed their minds about CP conversion TWICE.

What makes you think they won't change their minds about the way the cash shop works when they decide they need to milk their playerbase for more money?

No point to even try to carry a discussion with that bloodfang (previously destiny9) person. He is a blatant fanboi if not a ZOS employee. Every post he puts up is rah rah ZOS/ESO no matter the topic. I just lol everything he says the same as any mod/dev posts as they are clearly a joke and can't be taken seriously.

Zershar_Vemod · January 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

I honestly do not know of another of another company that treats its (long-term) subscribers as horribly as ZOS does. Snakes treat rats better than ZOS treats us.

EA / Bioware, Cryptic / PWE.

Bouvin · January 2015

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I honestly do not know of another of another company that treats its (long-term) subscribers as horribly as ZOS does. Snakes treat rats better than ZOS treats us.

EA / Bioware, Cryptic / PWE.

Don't forget Sony and Turbine.

Djem · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

But if we stop subscribing, we lose our loyalty reward progression.

What if the next pet is a Banekin!?

It kind of seems like that halted already.

They must have forgotten about "customer loyalty" when they started seeing $$ signs in the form of a cash shop.

See, cash shop games don't need loyal customers because they always get a new influx of people trying the game out and liking the well-polished first 50 levels. Then once they hit end game and find out that development ground to a halt 6 months after the subscription switch they leave.

That's actually not how cash shop games make most of their profit. It's from very few people who spend very big amounts of money, rather than a lot of people who spend small amounts of money. So they do need loyal customers, just a different kind of customer than they have now.

PBpsy · January 2015

SgtPepperUK wrote: »

tbh I got this vibe from ZOS the day they gave new purchasers on Steam an exclusive pet a few months ago with no consideration to existing subscribers,

Now, yes, it was only a pet but, to me, it said a lot about ZOS' attitude and it's why I made some fairly lengthy posts on the matter because I didn't like the direction this indicated they were going in and, honestly, because it isn't the attitude to have when trying to sell subscriptions in a market that has become pretty hostile to that payment model.

It was even more funny when I saw that from the 10 steam and steam sales players I recruited into one of my casual/new player friendly guilds exactly 0 had lasted more than one month. Good times.