An Appology

JackDaniell · January 2015

Hello, longtime TES fan here.

With the news given today about the change in subscription model, I thought it was more than deserving for me to give a formal appology.

I would like to appologise to everyone that I had heatedly defended ESO to in regarding it changing its sub model. Like many others I was under the impression that it would not change, as were we told by ZOS it would not. In the defence of this game I had arguged fiercley that it would not change and may have said some mean things to those opposing me, but I was wrong.

So if you were on the recieving end of any fierce fanboy defence, I on behalf of the community would like to appologise to you, you were right.

Signed Jack Daniell, longtime TES fanboy.

Roechacca · January 2015

It's ZOS that should be making apologies here .

VisceralMonkey · January 2015

You guys don't owe any of us who said it was coming an apology. It's appreciated, but as the poster above me said, it's ZOS who owes one to everyone.

Even then, you *must* remember that this kind of information would be very, very sensitive and something people working there would have to avoid speaking about. It's their job, and there is no way they should have to choose to post about changes they know are coming and having a pay check. That's the reason it's always important to listen to what is *not* being said, in this case, any official repudiation of the rumors and the stock being pulled from shelves.

Always read between the lines.

Malthorne · January 2015

roechacca wrote: »

It's ZOS that should be making apologies here .

^^

Sallington · January 2015

I'll add my signature to the OP.

rylixav · January 2015

I respect you for at least saying that. There are a lot of other people here who have been proven wrong about almost every single thing they've posted for the past two weeks and yet refuse to even acknowledge that they made a mistake.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming]

BlueIllyrian · January 2015

Very nice of you, people tend to be passionate about their hobbies and think with their heart first

pvpaddict42 · January 2015

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hello, longtime TES fan here.

With the news given today about the change in subscription model, I thought it was more than deserving for me to give a formal appology.

I would like to appologise to everyone that I had heatedly defended ESO to in regarding it changing its sub model. Like many others I was under the impression that it would not change, as were we told by ZOS it would not. In the defence of this game I had arguged fiercley that it would not change and may have said some mean things to those opposing me, but I was wrong.

So if you were on the recieving end of any fierce fanboy defence, I on behalf of the community would like to appologise to you, you were right.

Signed Jack Daniell, longtime TES fanboy.

I hope that while you will defend what you see as right in the future, you won't be so naive as to blindly ignore what is being said by others or the clues that might be out there. This is a problem a lot of people have and not just about game companies, but all kinds of things (governments too!). Try and be objective, look at all the evidence available, then make your choices. World would be a better place if we all did that.

BlueIllyrian · January 2015

roechacca wrote: »

It's ZOS that should be making apologies here .

That's the sad part, they won't. The official line is that players wanted this, a bit like "Delta rising is best expansion ever ad the players love it."

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · January 2015

ya have to admit I was wrong as well. Who would have thought some dude's friend named "the mole" actually had factual information.

Mercurio · January 2015

ZOS should apologize for murdering the genre.

Samadhi · January 2015

Personally just glad there is finally something official instead of gaming news networks circle-jerking over their speculations.

DaniAngione · January 2015

I was wrong as well...

I'm still hopeful, though.

Is that a critical stage of Fanboyism?

AM I GOING TO DIE?

AaronMB · January 2015

ZOS should apologize to Bethesda for the bad taste of TES that'll be leftover in our mouths.

"Zenimax killed The Elder Scrolls"

Feidam · January 2015

AaronMB wrote: »

ZOS should apologize to Bethesda for the bad taste of TES that'll be leftover in our mouths.

"Zenimax killed The Elder Scrolls"

This is the stuff that is getting to me. If anything the new model is closer to what TES fans are used to with DLC. All in all, I don't see anything to be up in arms about. That does not preclude that ZOS won't make some bonehead move with pay to win items, but right now there is nothing to be angry about.

rylixav · January 2015

Feidam wrote: »

AaronMB wrote: »

ZOS should apologize to Bethesda for the bad taste of TES that'll be leftover in our mouths.

"Zenimax killed The Elder Scrolls"

This is the stuff that is getting to me. If anything the new model is closer to what TES fans are used to with DLC. All in all, I don't see anything to be up in arms about. That does not preclude that ZOS won't make some bonehead move with pay to win items, but right now there is nothing to be angry about.

Really? How many costumes were for sale for real money in Skyrim? How many pets did you buy with microtransactions?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · January 2015

Feidam wrote: »

AaronMB wrote: »

ZOS should apologize to Bethesda for the bad taste of TES that'll be leftover in our mouths.

"Zenimax killed The Elder Scrolls"

This is the stuff that is getting to me. If anything the new model is closer to what TES fans are used to with DLC. All in all, I don't see anything to be up in arms about. That does not preclude that ZOS won't make some bonehead move with pay to win items, but right now there is nothing to be angry about.

Unless you wanted a game where everyone is on equal footing. Then you will be upset I am sure.

Tandor · January 2015

rylixav wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

AaronMB wrote: »

ZOS should apologize to Bethesda for the bad taste of TES that'll be leftover in our mouths.

"Zenimax killed The Elder Scrolls"

This is the stuff that is getting to me. If anything the new model is closer to what TES fans are used to with DLC. All in all, I don't see anything to be up in arms about. That does not preclude that ZOS won't make some bonehead move with pay to win items, but right now there is nothing to be angry about.

Really? How many costumes were for sale for real money in Skyrim? How many pets did you buy with microtransactions?

They stopped developing content for Skyrim, which annoyed the fans one heck of a lot. If they'd had a cash shop for in-game items like costumes and pets perhaps it would have been viable for them to continue development and everyone would have applauded.

The basic principle behind this move is that no modern computer game can afford to ignore the console players, and they won't pay a service charge plus a game subscription. ZOS had no option but to make it free for them, and that meant making it free for us. At least they had the good sense to make it buy to play rather than free to play, that makes a big difference.

asteldian · January 2015

Feidam wrote: »

AaronMB wrote: »

ZOS should apologize to Bethesda for the bad taste of TES that'll be leftover in our mouths.

"Zenimax killed The Elder Scrolls"

This is the stuff that is getting to me. If anything the new model is closer to what TES fans are used to with DLC. All in all, I don't see anything to be up in arms about. That does not preclude that ZOS won't make some bonehead move with pay to win items, but right now there is nothing to be angry about.

The anger is more from the fact people have seen it all before.
Admitedly for the first year it should be fine - they should make enough money from consol sales to keep going. But by end of first year is when the changes start - Dev team gets smaller, content becomes few and far between, Cash Shop items become suspiciously powerful.
-
Basically it's a fear of the inevitable

TheMachineKiller · January 2015

apology*

Samadhi · January 2015

Tandor wrote: »

They stopped developing content for Skyrim, which annoyed the fans one heck of a lot. If they'd had a cash shop for in-game items like costumes and pets perhaps it would have been viable for them to continue development and everyone would have applauded.
...

On the plus side, Skyrim still has many active players and a wonderful modding community who churn out content for free on PC.
Suppose this could be insightful with regards to their move to a cash shop associated with consoles that do not have access to new Skyrim content though.

Naivefanboi · January 2015

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hello, longtime TES fan here.

With the news given today about the change in subscription model, I thought it was more than deserving for me to give a formal appology.

I would like to appologise to everyone that I had heatedly defended ESO to in regarding it changing its sub model. Like many others I was under the impression that it would not change, as were we told by ZOS it would not. In the defence of this game I had arguged fiercley that it would not change and may have said some mean things to those opposing me, but I was wrong.

So if you were on the recieving end of any fierce fanboy defence, I on behalf of the community would like to appologise to you, you were right.

Signed Jack Daniell, longtime TES fanboy.

ditto

SgtPepperUK · January 2015

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

It's ZOS that should be making apologies here .

That's the sad part, they won't. The official line is that players wanted this, a bit like "Delta rising is best expansion ever ad the players love it."

Yes, through feedback they determined players wanted this...I guess haemorrhaging subscribers could be considered feedback albeit indirectly.

JoffyToffy69 · January 2015

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hello, longtime TES fan here.

With the news given today about the change in subscription model, I thought it was more than deserving for me to give a formal appology.

I would like to appologise to everyone that I had heatedly defended ESO to in regarding it changing its sub model. Like many others I was under the impression that it would not change, as were we told by ZOS it would not. In the defence of this game I had arguged fiercley that it would not change and may have said some mean things to those opposing me, but I was wrong.

So if you were on the recieving end of any fierce fanboy defence, I on behalf of the community would like to appologise to you, you were right.

Signed Jack Daniell, longtime TES fanboy.

Thankyou. It's very honorable to speak out like this.
I am sad that the game is changing. I knew it was coming (only a little while ago, not that 6 month crap lol) and discussion on the topic was taboo.
Even though I am unsure if I received your wrath directly, it is still appreciated.
lets hope everything is implemented well, because eso essentially is a great game.

rylixav · January 2015

Tandor wrote: »

The basic principle behind this move is that no modern computer game can afford to ignore the console players, and they won't pay a service charge plus a game subscription. ZOS had no option but to make it free for them, and that meant making it free for us.

Doesn't FFXIV charge a sub fee on consoles? (Serious question. I don't play it, so I'm not sure. But I thought that was what I read?)

That being said, even if ZOS had to change the console version business model, they didn't have to change the PC version business model. The two are separate products, as they've said all along.

Tandor wrote: »

At least they had the good sense to make it buy to play rather than free to play, that makes a big difference.

Do you really not understand that "buy to play" is just "free to play" plus a fee for the box? It's literally the exact same thing with one more fee tacked on. It's the same microtransactions. Why is that so hard to understand?

Tandor · January 2015

rylixav wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

At least they had the good sense to make it buy to play rather than free to play, that makes a big difference.

Do you really not understand that "buy to play" is just "free to play" plus a fee for the box? It's literally the exact same thing with one more fee tacked on. It's the same microtransactions. Why is that so hard to understand?

Absolutely I understand that. It's the basis of the distinction between the two definitions. The big difference is in the effect on the community, having to pay for the box (or download) keeps out the more obnoxious players that are otherwise attracted to F2P, as well as a good many of the gold sellers. There is also an argument that microtransactions are less dominating in BTP titles as the developers aren't relying solely on them for their revenue as they are with F2P titles.

There is a big difference between the two models, and to argue that they are the same except for one payment is like claiming that the subscription model is also F2P because although you have to pay for the day you get billed, the rest of the month it's free to play.

Feidam · January 2015

rylixav wrote: »

Really? How many costumes were for sale for real money in Skyrim? How many pets did you buy with microtransactions?

Nice way to nitpick. The DLC will be no differant. The costumes are fluff. No one is being forced to buy fluff. Which means them offering costumes to players for real money does affect a player at all if the do don't buy the costume. So my point still stands. The MMO industry is changing financially. Either we as players adapt or we give up our mmo's. Players consume content at a rapid pace and then demand more which takes a lot of money.

kijima · January 2015

JD, I feel betrayed too.

But, I still don't know how this is going to effect things for me moving forward, it may mean more players to the game which, would be nice. It may mean those that did have subs will have stronger characters moving forward, that's a good thing too.

I guess what I'm saying is, they haven't turned off the severs so lets see what's going to happen next.

Still feel betrayed though.

Iago · January 2015

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hello, longtime TES fan here.

With the news given today about the change in subscription model, I thought it was more than deserving for me to give a formal appology.

I would like to appologise to everyone that I had heatedly defended ESO to in regarding it changing its sub model. Like many others I was under the impression that it would not change, as were we told by ZOS it would not. In the defence of this game I had arguged fiercley that it would not change and may have said some mean things to those opposing me, but I was wrong.

So if you were on the recieving end of any fierce fanboy defence, I on behalf of the community would like to appologise to you, you were right.

Signed Jack Daniell, longtime TES fanboy.

Don't feel so bad I assume they used us to pay for their development costs after release knowing full well they were going to drill us in the %^$ as hard as they could as soon as enough income was brought in to recover what ever they needed to.

Morthur · January 2015

.

jopeymonster · January 2015

You don't owe anyone an apology. ZOS was not transparent about their goals and plans, and at times fed us incorrect or inaccurate information.

We could speculate that this change will be good. We could speculate this change will be bad. We could speculate that the sky will turn purple and rain chocolate.

You were merely defending your viewpoint based on what information was provided. Just because some people were right in their speculation, does not mean that you did a disservice. Hopefully, players like you will remain in the game for as long as it is worthwhile.