Date for 1.6 - You're rapidly running out of time Zenimax

Sukenlihol · January 2015

Delay for update.. That's not problem for me, I love this game as it is.

But, That's the problem for marketing.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · January 2015

Nice LoL farm post.

LonePirate · January 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They told us new content every 4-6 weeks. I dont think 1.6 even has any like new areas to quest etc right? Going to be more like 6 months between content than 6 weeks.

How are the CS and JS not new content?

Those are game systems not content. Content is like quests, dungeons etc we havent gotten anything like that since craglorn. Now it seems we wont get anything like that even with 1.7. So talking a very long time with nothing new as far as questing.

I think you may have misunderstood them when they said "new content." They certainly didn't mean new zones, dungeons, and questlines every six weeks. That isn't a sustainable model for the long haul.

Yet that was their entire reasoning for the monthly sub. They said we would have new content every 4-6 weeks. I dont think they meant constant revamps as content. If they did we are getting screwed. The justice system is not content. Its just a mini game. If they wait till 1.8 to add any new quests etc then thats just insane. They will lose a ton of players.

We won't need to wait until 1.8. I firmly believe we will receive the Imperial City and possibly even Wrothgar in 1.7. There is even a good chance we will receive some new, surprise "content" in 1.6 because it is almost pointless to release the CS if there is not a way for most players to earn CPs. Two daily Undaunted pledges, mob grinding in Craglorn and PVP in Cyrodiil are not sufficient for most players for earning CPs.

If you think people are complaining now, what do you think will happen if there is no new way to earn CPs given how people are already tired of the current content.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · January 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They told us new content every 4-6 weeks. I dont think 1.6 even has any like new areas to quest etc right? Going to be more like 6 months between content than 6 weeks.

How are the CS and JS not new content?

Those are game systems not content. Content is like quests, dungeons etc we havent gotten anything like that since craglorn. Now it seems we wont get anything like that even with 1.7. So talking a very long time with nothing new as far as questing.

I think you may have misunderstood them when they said "new content." They certainly didn't mean new zones, dungeons, and questlines every six weeks. That isn't a sustainable model for the long haul.

Yet that was their entire reasoning for the monthly sub. They said we would have new content every 4-6 weeks. I dont think they meant constant revamps as content. If they did we are getting screwed. The justice system is not content. Its just a mini game. If they wait till 1.8 to add any new quests etc then thats just insane. They will lose a ton of players.

We won't need to wait until 1.8. I firmly believe we will receive the Imperial City and possibly even Wrothgar in 1.7. There is even a good chance we will receive some new, surprise "content" in 1.6 because it is almost pointless to release the CS if there is not a way for most players to earn CPs. Two daily Undaunted pledges, mob grinding in Craglorn and PVP in Cyrodiil are not sufficient for most players for earning CPs.

If you think people are complaining now, what do you think will happen if there is no new way to earn CPs given how people are already tired of the current content.

People should be complaining. Its a little ridiculous that this STILL isnt out on the PTS. How long before we see it live? April? May?

Winnower · January 2015

i want them to wait until it is ready, period. much better than the alternative.

Dagoth_Rac · January 2015

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Deciding to hand out 30 to 70 CP according to a simple formula instead of giving everyone 30 CP totally absorbs the combined skill and effort of all the developers for several weeks? Yeah, right.

They had mentioned tuning the game content around people with 30 Champion Points. They probably had to go back and retest everything with 70 CP, making sure it still played well and was not too easy for VR14 with 70CP. It is one thing if people find exploits and grind spots and race ahead in CP, then complain content is too easy. It is another if game content is too easy right out of the gate for almost everyone. So I think the 30CP to 70CP change required more than just a one line change. It probably required taking another look at a lot of content and retuning the difficulty.

PBpsy · January 2015

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Deciding to hand out 30 to 70 CP according to a simple formula instead of giving everyone 30 CP totally absorbs the combined skill and effort of all the developers for several weeks? Yeah, right.

They had mentioned tuning the game content around people with 30 Champion Points. They probably had to go back and retest everything with 70 CP, making sure it still played well and was not too easy for VR14 with 70CP. It is one thing if people find exploits and grind spots and race ahead in CP, then complain content is too easy. It is another if game content is too easy right out of the gate for almost everyone. So I think the 30CP to 70CP change required more than just a one line change. It probably required taking another look at a lot of content and retuning the difficulty.

If that is the case and 40 CP can cause a considerable imbalance then the whole Champ system is a complete mess that is even worse then I dare to think it will be.
The lowest maximum CP gain rate that I think we will see is about 100CP in a month if indeed their tuning is perfect and the rate is indeed 1CP/4H max. Yes some people will play 16 hours a day and if 40 CP does make much of a difference we will have Demigods all around in a about a month. I think the max rate of CP gain will be higher though.

Heruthema · January 2015

ZOS please take ALL the time you need to make sure that there are as few bugs as possible.
If you release quickly people will complain that you did not do due diligence and check for bugs. If you take your time people will yell that you have incompetent programers and your marketing staff lies.
So take the needed time and get it right. Oh wait, I just remembered the group that will complain that you got it right.
You cant win.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · January 2015

Winnower wrote: »

i want them to wait until it is ready, period. much better than the alternative.

Point is this should be ready now. The fact it is not even after all the delay makes me wonder if they need to hire some new programmers. How long should we wait? Months? Years? Im supposed to just keep paying even tho they miss deadline after deadline. Then when it does come out it will be buggy as hell and require 10 "hot fixes". Isnt it time to expect a little more out of the people we pay? We accept mediocrity and thats what we will get.

Mathius_Mordred · January 2015

Divinius wrote: »

Am I the only person that would rather an update take 3 months longer than planned, than to have them get it out on time but have it be a huge pile of crap?

I think for sure no, I feel the same, let's have it released to PTS when they are sure it's ready for testing. Then take some time to fully go through it and make sure it's well polished for final release. Nothing worse than looking forward to an update and finding out it's, as you say, a pile of crap.

Sindala · January 2015

That is what the PTS is there for thou, if its a pile of crap and crashes to desktop then they can work on 'why'.
If it's little bugs then they can work on them, bigger issues can be 'community addressed' meaning different spec'e systems can try and see if the same results are happening....ect, basically using a PTS for what it's designed for and not just a 'Does the build hold' right ship it to live.

The fact they have gone quiet on it now after big'ing it up before Christmas means the have found a fundamental flaw in the main system and we aint gonna see it on PTS until i'd say mid February, depends on how fast they can hire in some base coders to fix the problems for them.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · January 2015

Maybe instead of trying to do so much in one patch they could put out multiple smaller patches. Seems to me would be the smarter way to go is do a little at a time see how that goes. Instead we wait months for one big patch that takes even more months to fix. Hopefully after this they will stop messing with the game systems and start writing more quests.

ashlee17 · January 2015

I feel your frustration OP.

I fully support zenimax in taking as long as they need to get content right before they release it, but I think their communication about delays leaves a lot to be desired.

Might I suggest zen could start a daily patch progress blog. This could include a soft release date, as well as a little information about what elements are testing well and the ones that are testing not so well pior to relase.

Small daily updates on the current status of 1.6 posted at a consistent location could buy ZOS a lot of goodwill and would be far more reassuring to passionate fans than haphazard updates and long periods of silence.

Maybe this could be a win/win solution.

Stonesthrow · January 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Winnower wrote: »

i want them to wait until it is ready, period. much better than the alternative.

Point is this should be ready now. The fact it is not even after all the delay makes me wonder if they need to hire some new programmers. How long should we wait? Months? Years? Im supposed to just keep paying even tho they miss deadline after deadline. Then when it does come out it will be buggy as hell and require 10 "hot fixes". Isnt it time to expect a little more out of the people we pay? We accept mediocrity and thats what we will get.

Just a thought, but maybe if it's this bad for you… take a break?

Durham · January 2015

Communication is this games biggest weakness...extreamily poor communication unless you want to talk about lighting, facial expressions, employees clothes, employee jokes, how long it takes an employee to take a dump...omg the live stream make me want to cry for baby Jesus to take me away....

Ouranos · January 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They told us new content every 4-6 weeks. I dont think 1.6 even has any like new areas to quest etc right? Going to be more like 6 months between content than 6 weeks.

New content isn't just a new zone every month--in fact, when they were talking about regular content (I think during beta, although it might have been later), they clarified that new content (as in any game) isn't just a new zone. Content is any addition to the game, and the ones coming in update 6 will be, in my opinion, more meaningful than all of Craglorn put together.

I'm going to go and say that you're going to ignore or dismiss all the content I'm about to list because it doesn't personally appeal to you or you don't want to be wrong (since we all know how the internet is), but here it goes:

The justice system will (partially, pve-wise) be introduced this patch, won't it? That could mean loads of gameplay for guilds battling not only for vendors, but to keep them alive. Also thieving-themed guilds. Lots of gameplay implications, when you think about it:

...[T]he first iteration of the Justice System will include Skyrim-style PvE elements—you’ll be able to steal from vendors, pickpocket NPCs, kill NPCs, have justice meted out to you by guards—but not with the PvP Enforcer part of the system.

[...]

[T]he Justice System will include huge updates to the very fundamentals of the game. Townspeople will be considered neutral and be attackable, and many items that you could take freely before will be considered owned and must be stolen. There are fences who’ll buy stolen goods—if you can get past the guards while you have a bounty on your head. These are large changes to the game, and go hand-in-hand with our vision to add more freedom and sandbox-style elements to the world.

(Source)

The champion system adds lots of new graphical elements, passives, and gameplay implications:

The Champion System will include the new post-level 50 veteran progression changes we’ve been talking about for a few months now. We’ve done preparation work for the Champion System in updates 4 and 5, and Update 6 will include phase 3 of the system. This phase includes the ability to spend points in Champion Passives and many ability changes that complement the system.

(Source)(More Reading)

Tons of provisioning changes, with more recipes to collect and master:

We’ve reorganized recipes to make them easier to find in the UI, reduced the overall number of ingredients (your inventory will thank us), added new recipes, improved the usefulness of drink buffs, and much more.

(Source)

Bouvin · January 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Running out of time for what, exactly?

To be on PTS in January, as they've stated numerous times. Today is the 20th.

To be on Live, first week of February, as they've stated numerous times.

Even if it was released on PTS today, if they push it to live first week of February, that isn't adequate time for testing a patch of THIS SIZE. If there's 60 pages of patch notes, that means there will be 120 pages of documented bugs. That's just software development....

I think people are worried that they'll push this to PTS like January 31st at 11:59 pm to say "We did it in January like we said" then only have a few days of testing and push it to live full of DOCUMENTED bugs. Because it was delayed, then rushed to be on time.

Personally, if they need more time to get it ready for PTS. JUST TELL US.

If they need to delay the push to live to make sure it is thoroughly tested, with several updates to PTS so that bugs are fixed. THAT'S FINE. JUST TELL US.

I think the issue here is the obvious vagueness of when it'll be released. "Sometime in January, then sometime in February." plus their track record of not fixing DOCUMENTED BUGS from PTS to Live.

pmn100b16_ESO · January 2015

Divinius wrote: »

Am I the only person that would rather an update take 3 months longer than planned, than to have them get it out on time but have it be a huge pile of crap?

This is music to ZOS' ears; I'll pay you $15/month, take as long as you want with the updates. People do know that at the back of Zenimax is a company run by suits that want as much money from you whilst spending as little as possible on the game?

Bouvin · January 2015

Grao wrote: »

I wish they'd at least post the changes to class and weapons skills. It would help us prepare and theorycraft around those changes even before the actual release of 1.6 on the PTS.

Exactly. They keep telling us about these "60 pages of patch notes". POST THEM ALREADY. It will chill people out while they read them.

Alondight · January 2015

I agree that it would be nice to see a little more info on the patch but to be honest with as much as they are saying (considering if what they say is all going to be in 1.6) then I am more the happy to wait.

Tandor · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

I wish they'd at least post the changes to class and weapons skills. It would help us prepare and theorycraft around those changes even before the actual release of 1.6 on the PTS.

Exactly. They keep telling us about these "60 pages of patch notes". POST THEM ALREADY. It will chill people out while they read them.

You're kidding. The impatient whiners won't be chilling out with the patch notes, they'll be dissecting them, misinterpreting them, and whining some more about the changes before they've even had a chance to see those changes in practice on the PTS.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2015

I want the update to be quality too, but I haven't actually played the game in about 3 weeks now. I have been downloading mods for Skyrim and playing that. Sad that after 4 years Skyrim is still a better game than ESO. If I can't even see the contents of update 1.6 to know whether it's even worth it to keep paying for this game, then I will probably unsub until they actually release it. I don't see any reason to pay for something that I'm not using and the loss of one or two months of game time means what? I don't get another useless pet that takes up inventory space? So far what I've seen looks really promising but ZOS has a really bad habit of making this game practically unplayable, so we'll see.

technohic · January 2015

Oh just stop. They were talking about getting all the notes ready and how many pages it is up to. It probably has to go through approval process once it is even written, and as linked early in this thread; also be translated and checked and re-checked for errors. Once all that is done; then they probably are making sure it is going to be coordinated with the release of the actual patch to the test server. Then you will have all the communication you need.

And all MMOs have these aggressive update cycles they think they want to hit when they first launch, until they see the reality that their MMO is no different than other MMOs and unexpected bugs happen. They even mentioned that they were getting pressed from fixing bugs from previous updates along with the next update being pushed forward so they backed off that.

I never was a fan of quick updates anyway. Just do balance and bug fix patches, and make what you call actual "updates" have more meat to them and be done right rather than just try to churn out cheap content.

Darkeus · January 2015

ok you didnt finished 1.6 , but is 20 january and you dont even post the 1.6 patch notes.... this is outrageous

Wizzo91 · January 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I want the update to be quality too, but I haven't actually played the game in about 3 weeks now. I have been downloading mods for Skyrim and playing that. Sad that after 4 years Skyrim is still a better game than ESO. If I can't even see the contents of update 1.6 to know whether it's even worth it to keep paying for this game, then I will probably unsub until they actually release it. I don't see any reason to pay for something that I'm not using and the loss of one or two months of game time means what? I don't get another useless pet that takes up inventory space? So far what I've seen looks really promising but ZOS has a really bad habit of making this game practically unplayable, so we'll see.

Of course - comparing Skyrim and ESO makes a lot of sense... You do realize that it's idiotic to compare single player RPGs with MMOs?!

Tapio75 · January 2015

No, time is not running out. Players are impatient. Just wait until it is on the point it can be lauched.

And i for one, consider justice system as content. It opens whole new areas of ganmeplay possibilities plus paves a road for Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild.

pvpaddict42 · January 2015

Tapio75 wrote: »

No, time is not running out. Players are impatient. Just wait until it is on the point it can be lauched.

And i for one, consider justice system as content. It opens whole new areas of ganmeplay possibilities plus paves a road for Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild.

Time is indeed running out on them meeting the deadline that they themselves set. And let me amend your previous statement. CUSTOMERS are impatient. It's not exactly like we're all free to play people here. We are paying for the game and all the services that entails. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more communication. If you want to be a mushroom that's fine, it's your choice. Some of us however would like to be kept in the loop better.

technohic · January 2015

pvpaddict42 wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

No, time is not running out. Players are impatient. Just wait until it is on the point it can be lauched.

And i for one, consider justice system as content. It opens whole new areas of ganmeplay possibilities plus paves a road for Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild.

Time is indeed running out on them meeting the deadline that they themselves set. And let me amend your previous statement. CUSTOMERS are impatient. It's not exactly like we're all free to play people here. We are paying for the game and all the services that entails. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more communication. If you want to be a mushroom that's fine, it's your choice. Some of us however would like to be kept in the loop better.

So you mean to tell me that these people who are so anxious for the patch notes for 1.6, are actually going to stop being customers? I seem to think that those most anxious are probably the least likely to go anywhere.

Neizir · January 2015

67 Pages?!

Jesus! That is A LOT of stuff! That's what, about 25,000 words total?

glak · January 2015

They said they don't want old copies of the patch notes floating around.